Deep Singh

sister.....yeah if a person belongs to a minority IT WILL ALWAYS affect the whole community when a single person does something wrong....like if in Punjab a sikh girl did something....it would not be "sikhs" fault....but her parents.....but overseas it will be like "community's" fault....that is human nature....

personally i think it is BOTH individual's and parents' fault....sometimes the parents give great teaching but children just do not listen,,,but otherwise children are good but parents do not care....

i do not know about this girl.....she has surely her problems...??

May God help the poor child....

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Guys, check out proudtobesikh.com and on the left side menu check 'Dhadi Jathas'.....

i love all of them.....

it is GREAT...

when i was a small child and heard them singing i asked my mom.....what are they playing (like instruments)......and like the tune is GREAT....the josh and love they have....

What about you guys?

any other sites with Dhadi Jathas...i know saintsoldiers.net

on proudtobesikh.com....u can download the MP3s...

what u need to know click forward to the last file where u can listen to the songs and open the 'source' file and find .mp3

; :D

a lot of files.....i love Bhumandi Jee's and Pritpal Singh's...

:D

it is really saaaaaaaad

Well, Veerji.......i do not know what to say but isn't it better to learn Shasstar Vidya and really be able to use Kirpan....and not just make it a ritual.

offcourse we have outmost respect for a Kakkar......and really everywhere we are we must have it with us. But saying that when taking off ur shirt...that i think is too much.

i do not know if we actually left the Kirpan 1-2 meters away and started taking of the shirt....if in anyway it would be easier to fight the enemy that may come..than having Sri Sahib to our chest and not even ne able to take it out of the Gatra....?!?!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Here is an update....

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20030702/.../punjab1.htm#10

Priests can’t sack me: Romana

Our Correspondent

Faridkot, July 1

Mr Mohinder Singh Romana, president of the management committee of Takht Patna Sahib, who is also a member of the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee, has rejected yesterday’s decision of the five priests of the Takht to sack him, which was reported in a section of the Press today.

The five priests — Giani Gurinder Singh (Head Granthi), Giani Baldev Singh (Senior Vice-Granthi), Giani Dalip Singh and Giani Nihal Singh (both Granthis) and the Takht head, Giani Iqbal Singh had said yesterday that Mr Romana, declared ‘tankhaiya’ on May 20 for using derogatory remarks against the Jathedar and Dasham Granth during the three-day function on the eve of celebrations of 400 years of Gur Gaddi at Chicago, had failed to clarify his position by the June 30 deadline. Mr Romana said the priests had no power to sack him and only Akal Takht could give such a decision.

“The priests have not only misused their powers but also violated the Sikh maryada. Under the 1953 Act of the constitution of Takht Patna Sahib, even a no-confidence motion against a president, senior vice-president, vice-president or general secretary of the management cannot be brought after the expiry of two-years-and-a-half of the management term. Even Mr Gurcharan Singh Tohra, Sant Harchand Singh Longowal and a former President, Giani Zail Singh, had rejected the decision of the priests of Takht Hazur Sahib w

ho had misused their powers to excommunicate the leaders in 1984,” said Mr Romana.

Mr Romana said he had said at the function that, in the presence of Guru Granth Sahib, the recitation of Dasham Granth was against the Sikh Maryada, as said by Guru Gobind Singh. Even the Supreme Court had, last year, described Guru Grandth Sahib as the juristic person for the Sikh nation. On this occasion, Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti, Jathedar Akal Takht; Giani Rajinder Singh, Head Granthi of Gurdwara Sis Ganj in New Delhi; Mr Harbhajan Singh Walia of the Delhi Gurdwara Management Committee, Jathedar Kesgarh Sahib and many other senior Sikh leaders had been present. He said he would accept any punishment given by Akal Takht and had already written to Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti to give his side of the story. The Jathedar had told him to appear before Akal Takht on July 10. He said the priests had acted at the behest of some politicians and he would soon file a defamation suit against all of them.

Yesterday, the Takht head, Giani Iqbal Singh, talking to our Amritsar reporter from Patna Sahib, had clarified that the clergy had not excommunicated Mr Romana, a confidant of Mr Parkash Singh Badal, from the Sikh Panth.

Giani Iqbal Singh said he would not attend the meeting of Akal Takht as the “chapter of Mr Romana” was closed.

Yeah Veer Sikh4Life......therefore i NEVER touch my Dhari.....

but i now i know that It IS WRONG......look a lot of people do this.....even those who work at GDs.... :D @

Veerjee....really i have been wondering about this also....

but i think it would be the regular answar...some would say it is O.K. when u r having a shower or in a plane (well, use a smaller kirpan...some say which can be tying around the neck)....but others would say it is Rehit to have it near our body all the time........

Sat Sri Akal......i am about 18 now.....so my small dhari is about 2-4 cm now :D )

i was thinking of having a Khulli Dhari.....well actually i like having it. but my mom and my sis just think it is too much......they say why YOU going to do so when everyone else in the family doesn't.....like my Grandpas (both of them, mom's and dad's father) tied their beards....but they did not use gell or fixxo...they just tied it like with a knot....u know a small ghand or juhka......

guys i have not so much knowledge about this.... like is it good or bad to use gell or fixo....for me it is all great if U have DASTAAR and Do not cut ur Dhari.....

Well, our younger Bhajee SoGGS told us about the Rehit....and that is fine :nihungsmile:

Veer, can i ask you something.......as i wrote i do not cut or trim Dhari to grow even more.....

like some months ago i meet a guy and he said i should "trim" my small dhari so that it would grow even more and be more thick or sangni...u know that...

but i just though it is better not to....so i have not touched it yet.....and i do not care to do it either....btw us, i haven't got the time for all that.....Guru ji gave us the Kangha and th

at is ALL i need.... ......

But like is it right to trim the dhari to make it more thick and make it grow like straight (like that now i got dhari some places and not others....it is like strange....)

i know it will be Khulli very soon....and i am just waiting...to be...-> :nihungsmile:

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Sat Sri Akal Jee...

Yes you are right Veerjee.....Sri Damdama Sahib was officially declared a Takht in the 60's....it is one of the amendments made to our Panthic Rehat Maryada....saying 'There are 5 Takhts of the Sikhs', probably also made in the Ardas.

All the other 4 Takhts were declared by Gurus......Akal Takht by Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib and the rest by Sri Guru Gobind Singh. The reason why Damdams Sahib was declared is because here Guru Gobind Singh Jee completed the Sikh Scripture....Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee....later on the place became a 'teological / religious' centre....

Maybe u have heard of a Sikh scholar, Sirdar Kapur Singh....he was against making of a 5th Takht....here are his views from the book Parasaraprasna....:

<<<<<<<<

The following is written between pp. 281 – 284 in the book “Parasaraprasna – The Baisakhi of Guru Gobind Singh”. Between pp. 276 – 287, Sirdar Kapur Singh writes an article about Ardas – the Sikh Congregational Prayer.

Actually, this is a long note on the word “Think of the Five High Seats of Sikh Authority11…” – pMjW qKqW11, srbq gurdAwirAW dw iDAwn Dr bolo jI vwihgrU !..from the Ardas

Sirdar Kapur Singh on the Takhts:

@ 1959

Note p. 281

11. There are and legitimately remain only four High Seats of Sikh Authority, the takhts and a recent innovation of a fifth takht set up by ignorant heresiarchs and new controllers of the official Board of Management of the Sikh Historical Shrines (SGPC [shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee]) is altogether repugnant to and unwarranted by the true Sikh doctrine or the metaphysical postulates and mythological traditions

of our ancestors, the Hindus.

Takht is a Persian word signifying ‘the Imperial throne,’ a concept of total and all-pervasive focus of worldly temporal power such as was supposed to inhere in the shahinshah, the emperor, of the Achaemenian throne. Ex-hypothesi, there cannot be more than one takht in the empire and indeed, in the entire world, for, a true and logically whole empire must tend to acquire a total ecumenical sway and the doctrine of co-existence of more than one takht, which is a true takht, is a self-stultification. But since the Sikh doctrine of Double Sovereignty, miri piri, envisages a sway over the minds and souls of mankind, the entire world and does not contemplate a coercive bondage of the bodies of men as the imperial throne does, it validates and promulgates a plurality of takht, coexistent, coeval and complementary.

The concept of these takhts, thrones of Double Sovereignty, originates from a Hindu tradition of religious dominion which is grounded in metaphysical postulates of ancient acceptance.

Dominion of religion in the world of phenomena is bound up with the concept of ‘space’ and the Hindu ‘space’ is a flat four-directional extension, innocent of Einsteinian curvature of depth impregnated into it by the progression of ‘Time’. This Hindu ‘pure space’ is conceptual sankalpabhu …

(p. 282)

… independent of the progression of ‘Time’ as both are viewed as distinct categories of mind imposed upon the sensibilia, a metaphysical insight formulated at least two thousand years earlier than Immanual Kent, “Verily the Space arise out of the Mind” is an Upanishadic formulation: etasmad atama akas smmbhutah., says the Taittreyopanishad (II, I). This ‘space’ is four-directional, east, west, north, south. I t is this ‘space’ in which is encompassed the entire phenomenal world samsara, the reality that is appearances and the religion as it impinges upon the minds of men while it is permanently there in the souls of all men-flourishes in relation to this ‘space’. The spread a

nd sway of religion in this world, therefore, must be comprehended and as four-directional.

Again, numbers’ occupy a prominent place in Hindu occultism and the concept of ‘numbers’ permeates a great deal many branches of Hindu speculation. Infinities are of particular fascination, circumscribed in cyclic concepts of Time and cosmic Ages of the universe. The branch of knowledge, Numerology, ganati is conceived as a branch of Ontology, and the numeral ‘I’, as the first signature and word in the Sikh Scripture is grounded in this modality of Hindu metaphysical thought.

According to this Hindu Numerology, while the symbol ‘zero’, (shunya) being the absence of all, comprises all things, the number, ‘one’ is the number of Divinity, of the fundamental symbol, lingam, of the Sun, signifying brightness, light, unity, wisdom. Number ‘four’ in this system of thought is the perfect number, as it represents all four directions of the space Satapathabrahmana tells us that, ‘ as the cow requires four feet, so the yajna, sacrifice must have four Vedas and four officiants’. Commenting on the description of the ‘mind-stuff’ in the Upanishads as Chaturpada, Sankara, explains, “like the four feet of a cow.”

These concepts about the nature of the ‘space’ and numerological significations are then linked-up with the spread and sway of religion in the world in the Hindu tradition and history, and that explains why whenever a Hindu sect or denomination of religion has laid claim to ecumenical status, it has set up or recognized four chief or primary places of its reverential focii. In the Guru Granth it is to this mode of understanding of the matter that a reference exists to the omnipotent comnipresence of God: chatur disa kino balu apna GGS, p. 681 and it is according to this mode of thought that in the ancient Vedic tradition four rajatirathas, royal centres of holiness, were recognised, such as Pushararaj, Prayagaraj, Kasiraj to each of which one of the cardinal directions, E.W. N. or S. was assigned. Likewise, in B

rahmanism, chaturdham, four residences of the gods, Jaganath (E), Dwarikavati (W), Badrinath and Ramesvaram (S) are recognised. Sankaracharya established chaturmatha, four abbeys, to represent is true interpretation of the Vedas, Vedanta, such as Jaganmatha (E) Dwarikamatha (W) Badrimatha and Sringerimatha (S).

(p. 283)

Of Vaisnavite Hinduism, there are recognised chaturpuri, the four holy towns beloved of the God, Jagannath Puri, DwarikaPuri anf so on. Gautam, the Buddha, before his mahaparinirvana, the great demise, specified four places, that of his birth, his enlightenment, his first sermon and his demise as the places worthy of homage for the Buddhists, Lumbanivan, Gaya, Sarnath and Kushinar, representing four directions of the Hindu ‘space’, and more signifying ecumenical claim.

It was to this ancestory of religious ecumenical claim that Guru Har Gobind, the founder of the first Sikh takht accorded recognition when he established in concurrence with Baba Sri Chand, the elder son of Guru Nanak and the founder of the Udasi sect of Sikh monks, four Ascesis-fires, dhuans, under the supreme pontiff ship of his own son, Baba Gurditta, with a view to preach Sikhism as a World Religion. Baba Gurditta is acclaimed by the Udasis as ‘the Seal of the Glory of the this world and the next’, din duni di tikki, that clearly adumbrates the true status and functions of the Sikh takhts.

Again, there are recognised two categories of holy places in our Hindu tradition, sthapt, established or appointed and svayambhu, over-there, self-existent. A centre of holiness may be set up or created by historical accident, association or appropriate ceremonies, or it may be there since the beginning of creation in the unseen world, but may be discovered through a sign, accident, or authoritative pointing out. There are temples of Visnu and Shiva of hoary antiquity that were so discovered through a royal dream or yogic flash and then magnificent buildings and idols were set up there and there are temples that were def

initely ‘established’ at a contingent point of time, before which established they were not.

It is this context that the significance and validity of chartakht, the Five [actually S. Kapur Singh might have meant/written ‘Four’, as it is clear from Punjabi char-takht, four takhts, it is tough a misprint and written ‘Five’ in my book] High seats of Sikh Authority, must be appreciated. These takhts do not originate and are not validated by historical occurrences, though they may be accidentally associated with the birth or sojourn of a Sikh Guru or it may be the case, that as Akaltakht, it was ‘build-up’ and signified by a Sikh Guru. These takhts essentially are and remain svayambhu, ever-there, and nobody or no contingent occurrence has created them.

There cannot be more then four takhts because ‘4’ is a perfect number, ecumenical in signification and grounded in the ancient metaphysical postulates of our race, while number, ‘5’ is not a perfect number, and it is not a significator of ‘space’ or territory while a takht must be such a significator. ‘5’ reduces much diversity to meaningful measure and hence signifies men and things, panchajanya panchatattva, panchagavya etc. and ‘panj-takht’ is a silly and unwarranted concept.

Nor the word, “takht” inscribed on some seal used by keepers of a historical Sikh shrine, such as occurs in the seal preserved at Damdameh Sahib in Punjab, can make the place a takht a ‘High seat of Sikh Authority’ of the…

(p. 284)

…category to which the traditional four takhts belong. In this seal the world, “takht” occurs in its dictionary meaning, in the sense that a royal personage, technically a Sikh Guru, rested, sat or held audience here. Indeed, the inscription on this particular seal itself makes the matter quite clear, which it says that it is the seal pertaining to “takht, Jagah Guru Gobind Singh Ji,” that is the throne-locus of the place where Guru Gobind Singh stayed’. On the basis of such a citation to declare the holy Sikh Shrine; Damdameh Sahib as the fift

h High seat of Sikh Authority is simply absurd. Bhai Kahan Singh also in his Mahankosh, the Encyclopaedia of Sikh Literature, gives precisely these as the true meaning of the word “Takht” as it occurs in Sikh writings and he is categorical that there are only four valid Sikh takhts (p. 1386). At Kirtarpur, there is a historical Sikh shrine known as Takht Sahib but it has never been deemed or claimed as one of the High Seats of Sikh Authority.

Damdameh Sahib now is in the Bathinda District of Punjab, as a holy and important Sikh shrine of great historical importance and sanctity, but it is not the fifth takht, in the meaning of a High seat of Sikh Authority, and there is no human authority now or ever, which can create new takhts valid in and acceptable to the Sikh doctrine.

<<<<<<<<<<

..............

My comments:

Sirdar Kapur Singh taking historic proof in action claims that there are only Four Takhts. That can be acceptable. But saying that number ‘5’ is not a perfect number, is not right. We know that we have got five symbols or kakars; kach, kara, kirpan, kangha, kesh, and Guru Gobind Singh baptised panj-piare. Well, S. K. Singh does point out that five is a number regarding human beings, and both panj-piare and panj-kakar are human associations. So this is really a matter to discuss.

Deep Singh, Oslo @ 2002-07-21

....................

However the Nihangs still say that THERE ARE FOUR TAKHTS PLUSS THE FIFTH TAKHT THEMSELVES!! this is what you can read from their site.....

Takhat Sri Budha Dal: Budha Dal is said to be the "Ladlian Faujan" of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Originally, Budhadal is said to be the 5th and the final takhat. However, as mentioned earlier that SGPC is now the governing body and all the major religious properties are under their control. They are forcefully changing the history once again, by alleging that Dam Dama Sahib is the fifth takhat. Which is historically NOT TRUE. This is jus

t another thorn in the history of brave Nihangs.

http://www.budhadal.com/hisofbudhadal.htm

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

guys.......i think the original question put by Vicky Bhajee was like about how the word developed.....WHO USED IT FIRST AND SO ON? when DID it become a part of Sikh freedom fight? i think this word is not found in puraatan sikh writtings....like from the Misl periode or before...or even Ranjit Singh's state......it was ALWAYS PUNJAB...or other geographical names...like Doaba, Majha and so on....

some years back, when i was first reading about Sikhi.....i got hold of a danish book written by Rudy Thomsen: "Sikherne; Relgion og Politikk"....The Sikhs: Religion and Politics.....i think this is the name.....offcourse she writes a lot about Khalistan and the Sikh struggle....she wrote that the word 'Khalistan' was first used by a Sikh scholar (or politician) called Bhatti.....i do not remember his full name or anything more......i promise i will find this book again and find it.......it will take some days though... i will juat come back here... :T:

Dr. Harjinder Singh Dilgeer in his article about Sikh and Anti-Sikh scholars calls here a major anti-sikh scholar....so i do not know if we can trust her here....?

http://www.dilgeer.com/famous.htm

that reminds me of a book 'Sikh Struggle for Independence' by Dr. Dilgeer.....i got it....and i will check if he writes

anything about the origin of this word...

I think ALL Takhts should be together when a person is going to be declared a tankhaiya.........it is not so hard is it? it would be better cause like than a person would not say 'i am not a tan..' because Akal Takht or Patna Sahib has not declared that...!?!?

however on certain issues the opinions of Akal Takht and Hazoor Sahib and Patna Sahib are different, like on Dasam Granth, perhaps they have different Rehits......some say Akal Takht goes the "Tat Khalsa" way......Hazoor Sahib & Patna Sahib go the Nihang Way......

i am not sure about the traditions at Damdama Sahib and Kesgrah Sahib.....the Jathedar of Damdama Sahib is some how moderate.....maybe they follow the modern Singh Sabha way......mainly Kesgarh Sahib and Damdama Sahib and Akal Takht are together, and the dakhni Takhts are not contacted (?)..... B)

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

There are four things which are considered Major Sins or Kurehits:

- Cutting the hair,

- Eating Halal meat,

- Adultery,

- Using tobacco

i think these are stated in the Panthic Rehit Maryada accepted by Akal Takht

also drinking alcohol is a sin but cutting hair is bigger...since it is not stated as a Kurehit in this Rehit Maryada Document, however by using normal antologi one can saw that also dringing is an equally great sin....after a Khalsa has commited a Kurehit, s/he has to confess to the Panj Piare and re-take Amrit....

hope some other guys answar more than me....

Deep.......

actually i was really trying not to answer them that way so i was really surprised.

okey then sis :D .....you need to learn more Sikhi....kidding again.... :D

anyway Veerjee.....the thing is AS LONG AS the present Akalis have the post, we can never think of Khalistan or even peace or equall rite within India...just look at Anandpur Sahib Resl.. ...look how BAD IT IS? Badal, being a turban wearing Sikh....controlling the party that controls SGPC...and through that Akal Takht....he is charged with corruption case.....it can not be congress politics only....he must have done something!

i do not see a lot of good Sikh leaders.....however Chouhan..yes...he is. Maybe i will go back and join his party... :D )

It's cool. But actually we are just answering the questions as Sikhi teaches us.

YEAH man...u are 100% rite....it is like a test....Do you really know what Sikhi is? or in a way, do you know what Sikhi is as it is understood by the people who started this site...

and secondly it may help us to understand which other faiths have a somewhat "similar" position as Sikhi.....like the reason why i started the site was to know what were the 2nd and 3rd choises......i got Judaism (i studied some Orotodox Judaism, and i knw that it will be close to my belief....and secondly the B'hai Faith that some others got..teaches the same as Sikhi....to love, share, and they also say 'every path may be rite' but ' it is our personal deeds that count'.....

i reallt think i was a JEW in my last life.....JUST KIDDDING :St:

Out Of The Sheath?

Sparks from the ashes of the Khalistan movement fly again

http://news.waheguroo.com/?{633Q6-17274-69...49443-Q3131-36}

CHANDER SUTA DOGRA

Tuesday, 30th November 1999

Nineteen years to the day after Operation Bluestar, the Shiromani Gurudwara Prabandhak Committee (SGPC) supported by the Akal Takht—the supreme spiritual and temporal authority that guides Sikh affairs—has declared Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, talisman of Punjab militancy, as a martyr and honoured his kith and kin at the Golden Temple, Amritsar, on June 6. And this wasn't one solitary symbolic function.

Eight days before, on May 29, Harjeet Singh Ghuman of the UK-based Punjab Radio distributed Rs 7.5 lakh among the families of some top Punjab terrorists for the "supreme sacrifice" made by their kin, at a discreet function at the Guru Teg Bahadur Nagar Gurudwara, Jalandhar.

Among those honoured were family members of Harjinder Singh alias Jinda and Sukhdev Singh alias Sukha (who had gunned down Gen A.S. Vaidya), Dharam Singh Kastiwal of the Khalistan Liberation Force and Tejinder Singh— killed at Amritsar airport while trying to hijack an Indian Airlines plane in 1984.

If this was not enough, Dr Jagjit Singh Chohan, an ideologue of the Khalistan movement who returned to India from UK after 21 years to form the Khalsa Raj Party, declared his intention to work towards the "formation of Khalistan" at a press meet in Chandigarh. Till recently, Chohan was lying low but now sees some prospect of the Khalistan movement being revived. Also, The Spok

esman, a magazine championing the Sikh cause, collected and distributed Rs 14 lakh to 132 "dharmi faujis" who had deserted the army in the wake of Operation Bluestar.

Are these developments cause for concern? Is there a serious attempt to revive the Khalistan movement? While there are apprehensions being expressed in some quarters, Punjab watchers feel the situation is far more complex than is revealed by a cursory appraisal of events. It has much to do with the compulsions of the Akalis who have traditionally used religion for their political ends. Says Prof P.S. Verma of the department of political science, Panjab University: "Now that the Akalis led by Parkash Singh Badal are out of power, they are going back to panthic politics to remain politically relevant." He feels that all the talk of Sikh identity as enunciated by the recent implementation of the Nanakshahi calendar for Sikhs (which incorporates the martyrdom of Bhindranwale) is an attempt by Akali politicians to exploit old symbols of the '80s.

All this comes at a time when the Akalis are under a relentless onslaught from Amarinder Singh's Congress government. Corruption cases against senior Akali leaders are being actively pursued by the police. Badal's own assets are under the scanner and the Shiromani Akali Dal (SAD) is preparing itself for the likely arrest of its leader. According to party insiders, the unity forged recently between the Akali factions led by Badal and Gurcharan Singh Tohra is also an attempt to put up a joint front against the state government's campaign. "If in the present scenario, there is a consolidation of panthic forces as a result of some discreet prodding by the Akalis, it could provide Badal with a shield of sorts," says Prof Verma.

Badal has indeed been very discreet. Apart from the public release of the Nanakshahi calendar at a political conference, he has maintained a distance from the activities of former Khalistanis. Since SAD is an NDA ally, the Aka

li leader, not wishing to hurt BJP 'sentiments', was very circumspect at the function which honoured Bhindranwale as a martyr. "This function has put an end to the controversy over whether Sant Bhindranwale is dead or alive," was all that he had to say. The BJP had already disassociated itself from the event, saying: "The party does not endorse the SGPC action."

But can the Akalis merely stoke the Khalistan spirit for political leverage without the whole thing snowballing? Observers say mass consciousness for a separate Sikh state does not exist anymore.And in terrorism-weary Punjab, the slogan of Panth vs State may not have the same resonance as it did in the '80s. People enjoying the fruits of peace may be naturally wary of a return to violence.

So far, the Punjab government has ignored these developments although cops say they are keeping tabs on former militants. Right now, the police assessment is that the public response to the revivalists has been no more than lukewarm.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SO Singhs and Singhnees the question is CAN we believe what SGPC (and Akal Takht) says about Khalsa Raj...and what about Chouhan...? is it just Akalis trying to get more votes from Tat Khalsa quarters, because they are showing that they care about the Khalistan-hood...?

One thing we can do is that to urge newspaper editors to put a lil NOTE at the bottom or at the top of the article "Pls respect Gurbani scripture published in this newspaper by not throwing them along with other garbage of your household " and stuff like that.. U know that way i think it's cool... Also reminds the desi janta to respect sikhi gurbani words...

VERY GOOD....!!! i agree....maybe it would be better to have Gurbani / Hukamnamas or Sikh related sections in a different corner....which is like specially noted...and distributed with plastic cover on it.....maybe this is much respect....but in the minds of Gursikhs nothing is enough... :D so what ever we do to respect we could think of more....and than more and more and more....and sadly it becomes a ritual.....BUT RESPECT THE BANI!!!

I think Japji Sahib gives something about it.....

Every thing we do in our life is recorded by 'angles' called Chit and Gupt....who after after death place our record with Dharam Raj....who is perhaps a kind of Head Angle, who judges the humans according to their deeds.... :T:

Those who have recieved the power of Naam will merge into ParamAtma...or Waheguru jio....we can say they live in SaachKhand....

those who have done something wrong something right will get a rebirth....a rebirth could be a high or low birth....like human birth is the best cause here u get the chance to apply for visa into SaachKhand, while as a insect you have to follow the Hukam as it is....or in other words...you have no freewill.....

If you have done ONLY bad deeds you will end up in hell.....what is hell? it can be living a life wihout Naam.......in SGGS hell is discribed as a place where their is pain and fire and so on....check Sheik Farid.....as well as Guru Sahib tells that hell or heaven is not a physical place....therefore i think it could be place where souls exist...because they are not physical.....

Am i wrong guys???

Bhaji and Bhainjee.......EVERY ONE NEEDS TO READ THIS::::

i have had a LOT of contact with muslim youth and being a sikh myself i also know where our weakness is........

is u guys want to know why i started on the sikh path....it is thanx to my MUSLIM friends....who tried there level BEST to convert me.....and THAN i started a 'all religion' study and found sikhi IS best....periode.....

last week i had a long conversion with a muslim friend on reincarnation and hell / heaven...and Judgement Day....

THE THING IS Muslim Kids ar taught to ask specific questions to folks from different religions.....like if it is a Christian..they will automaticlly ask.....Why is Jesus Son of God.....why is that because in Old Testament David is refered to as the Son of God....

if it is a Jew...they will ask why do not they accept Jesus and finally Mohammad, because in the Books of Moses it is written that a prophet..a king...a warrior will come in Arabia....' among the friends of Israel...Arabia' and that is Muhammad..

if it is a Hindu/Sikh/Buddist they say:

well, the reincarnation teory is un-logical, because WHY DO NOT WE REMEMBER the past lifes...? surely, it can not be true that a past life exists..becuase then we could remember something...? :D @ ...

and there is only ONE judgement day.....and just like in the article from sikh agenda yahoo...that 'how can a human become a dog?'

THE THING is we Sikhs...think that EVERY religion has some truth in it....and therefore we should not cri

ticize them or try to convert people to our religion.......

BUT THE THING IS people do even understand this....the only thing that matters to them is to get more and more chelas.... :D

and just PROVE THEM that their oiginal religion is TOTALY wrong......and Islam is 100 % logic....

if u guys visit some Islamic sites...u will see more than 50 % of the sites are filled with articles that "prove" that other religions are wrong....if u see sikh sites.....there is nothing like this.....

a "young" boy/girl like me....who lives in the pluralistic world....has no problems to see what is the RIGHT religion....offcourse Islam becuase they are out to prove that they are right.....but we just want to show that every religion can be rite....and that God is beyond this grabe of religions.... and to youngsters this sounds something very strange...world likes right and wrong...NOT all right, even tough that might be the truth :D

Waheguru Waheguru.....

well people,,,, even if you do not understand what Gurbani says....and mostly i do not either.. ....but what i like to do is: well when u got time....just start doing 'Waheguru Waheguru...' or just recite very small common verses that u understand (this is Naam Simran)....and surely you will feel The Spirit.

people the thing is when SGGS / Rehitnamas talks about Kaam @ sex....it is about not having desire to have sex with other's wife or husband......and not about the husband-wife thing....i think sex ia a natural thing between a man and a woman who are married....so go ahead...BUT one thing between married couples is that; often men desire sex but women sometimes do not...in some cultures women are almost pressed to have sex....THAT IS LIKE RAP....just done by the husband....and that is naturally because of KAAM.... :D

so yes Kaam is present, but if both husband and wife desire to have sex....for reproduction or to come closer to each other....a way of showing love i think it is OK.

You may read about Sex and Sikhism here:

http://www.sikhcoalition.org/Sikhism13.asp

an article by Sirdar Kapur Singh, written in '79....maybe it does not tackle the modern problems of youth, but it is good read...

I just want to give another example....

think that there is some big problem that US Govrn. if up to....like Iraq go to war or not....

Through TV/Newsppr/Media a lot of scholars and prof.s (in sikh perspective Gyanis) said a lot of things.....some said there should not be war others said yes.......[now imaginate, the Panth stands before a great problem...like any question about Rehit Maryada....and DamDami Taksal Jathedars/Bhai Sahibs tell the Panth, what is the rite thing to do...if they are good Gianis they will be objective and only tell what to do according to SGGS and the Original Rehit;;;;;;]

But the decision made by Bush (and the Govrn.) does not need to be totaly in line with the suggesions made by various scholars......HE HAS TO CHOSE WHAT IS A COMMON PATH..or something that could be accepted by all (after a while)

[now imaginate, Akal Takht makes decisions that can Unite the Panth....and not only some scholars----> even though they might be rite because, they are SCHOLARS and therefore they know the Norm (SGGS) best....]

Also Army Officials give their statements...like was it hard to fight..could it be better not to fight.....that is the role of the Nihangs....they are the guys who live-out-the-decisions... (or historically they did....now, as i said every one is fighting with each other)

Deep...