Deep Singh

great work Veerjee...that's the way to goooooooooo!

Singh Khalistan da Veerjee...congrants on ur almost 100th post....

here is something more about Sikhism and Economics:

http://web.lemoyne.edu/~arora/sikheco.htm

Economic Dimensions of Sikh Social Philosophy

Harjit Kaur Arora

Professor of Economics

Le Moyne College

Economics Department

Syracuse, NY 13214

I wish to thank my father, S. Rajinder Singh for his helpful comments on the earlier draft.

INTRODUCTION

When we talk of Oriental religions, the general assumption is that they consist of mysticism, intuitive experience, things ephemeral, of the other world, disconnected from the day to day mundane materialism. An economist, on the other hand, views society from a materialistic angle. Religion and economics both answer similar questions. Religion gives us ideals. Economics describes reality. Not that economists do not believe in God or that priests do not have monetary needs. It is not always easy to have an overall synthetic view of both. An economist talking of religion and philosophy is apt to walk on a slippery ground. An attempt to combine the two sometimes results in interesting observations. But I believe that these differences can be overcome since people usually follow their own self interests. We have to find a way to structure economic incentives that support and encourage ideal social behavior and to devise a common ground in the social behavior which governs both the economic and religious activities. It is a happy blend of the two, with religious behavior governing the general principles, that lead to a positive long lasting peace and even to world peace.<

br>

Before we go into a detailed discussion of the subject, it would be appropriate to broadly review the basic principles of Sikhism, the teachings of its Gurus and its economic philosophy. Sikhism is perhaps the youngest religion in the world. A majority of its followers live in the northern part of India in Panjab and Delhi. But they can be found in all parts of the world including the North and South Americas, Europe, Africa, Australia etc. They are easily recognizable because of their unshorn hair and the headgear of their menfolks.

The Sikh religion was founded by Guru Nanak (1469 - 1539 AD) who was born in the Panjab. This was an era of great awakening when old dogmas and faith of established religions were being reviewed and challenged. Some of the religions, especially in South Asia, had lost their original direction at the hands of an established priestly class. These religions have degenerated into a bundle of elaborate rituals the purpose of which was not always clear to its followers. Besides per existing codes religious activity could only be performed by a particular class of people called Brahmins or their progeny without regards to their educational background or spiritual status. These rituals spanned the whole spectrum of human activity from birth to death and covered all major events in one's life like marriage, house warming ceremonies, establishing a new business, and day-to-day activities like eating, charity, and pilgrimages etc. It extended far beyond a person's death in as much as the soul of the deceased had also to be cared for by propitiation of gods and providing food and other gifts in annual ceremonies which eventually went to the priests. All these activities were controlled by the priestly class of Brahmins who would do so in consideration of cash and/or other material benefits. Besides society was divided into various castes/sects who believed in a large number of deities and gods each requiring a separate set of rituals.

In this chaotic condition of a socie

ty Guru Nanak and his nine successors in Guruship worked to redefine the religious and social values of mankind. The Gurus also fought the social and political exploitation of man by man and laid down a clear and straight path unencumbered by elaborate rituals and free of the stranglehold of the priestly class of both Hindus and Moslems. Freedom from economic oppression and uplift of the economically disadvantaged was one of the platforms for the social uplift of masses. The tenth master ended the succession of human Gurus and proclaimed Guru Granth Sahib (the Holy Scripture) as the eternal Guru of the Sikhs. Guru Granth had earlier been compiled by the fifth Guru and is authentic as it has been written by the Gurus themselves. The holy scripture does not narrate the biography of the Sikh Gurus or any other historical event. It contains hymns to the glory of God written the Gurus and by various Hindu and Moslem Saints subscribing to same line of thinking as the Sikh Gurus.

TEACHINGS OF THE SIKH RELIGION:

Among the major teachings of Sikhism are:

1. Concept of God: God is one. The name is Truth, it is absolute, one supreme Being, Eternal, all pervading, the Creator, is without fear, without hate, envy or enmity, not revengeful, self-existent, not incarnated, the Being beyond time, Enlightener. He is attained through the grace of the Guru. The same Divine light (Jot) not only permeates all human beings irrespective of caste, creed, color, race, sex, religion or nationality but also the entire universe.

2. The ultimate aim of a Sikh is not salvation or an entry into heaven or attainment of worldly riches but a permanent and lasting merger of one's soul into the divine Jot (God). The only way to achieve this is through recitation of God's name and singing of his glories and qualities so that these qualities permeate into one's soul and the person becomes one with God not only after death but in this life itself. This is known as the path of JEEVAN MUKTI or emancipation in this

life itself. This would prove that Sikhism is a separate religion with a specific and clearly laid out objective. It would be wrong to suggest, as some scholars have done, that Sikhism is a modified or blended form of either the oriental or the occidental religions.

3. A Sikh rejects all fasts, rites and rituals, yoga, mortification of body, self torture, penances and renunciation. It rejects any self inflicted pain for attainment of God.

4. A Sikh believes that all that happens is in the will of God. God being the benefactor of all mankind, knows and does all that is in the best interests of His creation. Once a person willingly submits to and accepts, and not just acquiesces into, the will of God, he/she rises above joy and sorrow and is in eternal bliss even here in this life.

"GUR KAHIYA JO HOYE SAB PRABH TE

TAB KARHA CHHOD ACHINT HUM SOTE

"The Guru says that whatever happens is through the will

of God. Therefore I worry not and sleep peacefully and without care."

This does not, however, imply that we should not actively participate in day to day activities and passively renounce our duties. It certainly helps us take a detached and unprejudiced view of all our activities and lets us perform our duties selflessly and in the best interest of society at large.

5. By acceptance of God's will and by following the Guru's teachings bliss comes here and now in this life. It is carried forward to the life hereafter.

"HALIT SUKH PALIT SUKH NIT SUKH SIMRANO

NAAM GOBIND KA SADA LEEJAY" (DHANASARI,pp. 683)

"He who utters the name of God is ever at peace both here

and hereafter; And he is rid of his age old sins; joining

the society of Saints; the dead one is brought back to life."

6. Kaam, Karodh, Lobh, Moha, Ahankar (Lust, Wrath, Greed, Attachment, Ego or Pride)

While Sikhism believes in living a normal family life, it prohibits its believers in engaging in lustful activities, acting in a rage, greed and

/or attachment to worldly things or indulging in egoistic activities. Each of these items would need a full paper in itself. Constraints of space and time, and limitation of the subject does not permit a complete discussion of each item. Suffice it to say that extremes of any kind are prohibited in Sikhism. While lustful activities are prohibited, celibacy does not carry any merit and is discouraged. Similarly while greed for possession of any kind of property is unacceptable so is renunciation or retiring to the jungles for extreme penance or living on alms. While ego and pride are considered a sin so is lack of self respect or respect for others. While a Sikh is expected to maintain and care for the family and other material goods, he is not supposed to be so attached to them as to forget his ultimate aim in life or grieve at their loss. He is required to stay like a lotus flower in a pond living in it, getting his sustenance from the water but still detached and head held high outside the water.

SIKHISM AND ECONOMICS

Ideally all religions aim at the maximum benefit of maximum number of persons. We also know that corporate capitalism or state monopoly are responses to imperfect economic conditions. It is therefore necessary to review and redefine some of the religious principles for the benefit of society as a whole especially the underprevileged. Specific religious institutions also need to be created for the implementation of these principles. Religious economics has, of necessity, to be a welfare economics. Sikhism is no exception to this general rule. It has tried to evolve a set of principles that are practically acceptable to a vast majority of its followers and can be implemented without undue harm to the participants.

The basic requirements of any individual or a group of individuals are food, clothing, shelter and adequate supply of money for ancillary activities like education, transportation, entertainment, and an adequate provision in sickness , disability and old age. Sikhs believe

that God, the Creator of this world, has supplied all this in plenty for all the creation in the world. The problem arises when there is an unequatable distribution of resources, greed, hoarding, and/or excessive waste of resources resulting in deprivation to the weaker sections of society. If sufficient and unhindered supply of money for these items can be assured, mankind would be less greedy and would be more considerate towards their fellow beings. Hoarding would become less attractive and superfluous. Of course one has to work to earn money for their basic necessities and in today's world, an equitable distribution of wealth just does not exist. Sikhism resolves these problems as follows:

Honest living The same theory of greedlessness and detachment applies specifically to a Sikh in economic matters. As has been explained earlier, the ultimate aim of a Sikh is the merger of the soul with the Jot (God). A Sikh believes that this is a transient world and that what is contained herein is transitory and impermanent. The wealth accumulated in this world is also transitory. It has been provided to us by God for our sustenance for the period of our stay in this world. The man comes to this world naked and would go bereft of all the worldly wealth. Only the spiritual activity and good deeds done by a man would gowith him in the yonder world. A Sikh should never be attached to his worldly possessions. It would be in the interest of mankind to donate a part of one's surplus wealth for the welfare of the needy. Economics translates this ideal into the format of progressive tax structure. A Sikh contributes by donating part of his/her income to a just cause.

A Sikh believes that this human life has been granted to him as an opportunity for spiritual advancement by the grace of God. He should therefore maintain this body in a healthy condition, well fed, but not underfed nor overfed. He must provide sustenance to this body by earning an honest living. The body need not be tortured by fasting or by over-ind

ulging. Money is needed for this purpose only.

Prior to the advent of Sikhism, it was general practice in the prevalent religions that a specific sect or group of that religion would abjure all economic activity in the name of spiritual advancement. They would leave their homes, go and live in the jungles or caves in the Himalayas or other secluded places or at various pilgrim stations on the river banks but would still come back to the cities to beg for food or alms. This practice had a very demeaning effect on these religious recluses. Besides the wealthy persons, who were required to provide charity in such cases, would accumulate wealth by unscrupulous means in the belief that their sins would be washed off by the blessings of the spiritual alms seekers. The society was thus divided into two distinct groups both of which were demeaning to human dignity. Sikhism does not accept this artificial division between the spiritual haves and have-nots. A Sikh believes that each soul has to work for its own emancipation in the midst of economic activity. Everybody is responsible for his own deeds or misdeeds and will have to answer for them to God.

A positive externality of this system is that Sikhism does not practice the tradition of established priesthood. More specifically that of priests belonging to a particular caste/sect or that of hereditary priests. In Sikhism women are also eligible to act as a priest. Any baptized Sikh irrespective of sex, caste, creed or color can act as a priest and perform all the religious ceremonies which generally are very simple and need no elaborate arrangements.

SIKHISM AND SPIRITUAL WELFARE

As has been stated earlier, the primary goal of a Sikh is not accumulation of wealth, but his/her spiritual welfare. In addition to recitation of name and communion with God what better method can there be for such an uplift except through service to mankind. So all the Sikhs, wealthy or otherwise, donate voluntarily but generously to funds set up in various Gurudwaras (plac

es of worship) according to their capacity to donate. Most of these donations are anonymous. These donations are used in the following manner:

1. Institution of Langer: All the major Gurdwaras (places of worship) maintain a free kitchen 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, where any person irrespective of his religion, color or creed is welcome to eat. This is known as the institution of "Langar".

2. Education: Most of the major Gurudwaras maintain schools and colleges where any student can receive education free of cost.

3. Health care: Some Gurudwaras maintain hospitals where doctors volunteer their time and medicines are provided free of cost to the needy.

4. Senior Homes, orphanages and inns for travellers: Some Gurudwaras maintain rest houses and homes for the old and orphans where free lodging is provided.

5. Duswandh (ten percent): A majority of Sikhs consider it their duty to donate up to 10 percent of their income to the house of God. All these funds are used for the uplift of the poor and the needy in the manner stated above thus alleviating their sufferings, reducing their poverty and helping them in time of need. The recipients also exercise voluntary self control and do not take more than what is immediately needed by them. The giving and taking of charity is routed through the Gurudwaras as it is believed that giving through the God's temple leads to humility on the part of the giver and does not demean the receiver who knows not the identity of the giver but believes that he is receiving it from God's house.

The concept of Community service is very strong among the Sikh devout who irrespective of their status or station in life consider it their proud privilege and a service to God to volunteer time for the various services organized by Gurudwaras. There are therefore no overheads in the administration of various services and all the funds are fully utilized for the purpose for which these are donated.

CONCLUSION

Sikhism believes in voluntary religious re

gulation of economy as distinguished from government regulated or capitalistic economy. It adopts a pragmatic and realistic approach of subordination of economic activity to the spiritual and religious values. It does not reject, renounce or denounce economic activity as something inherently bad nor does it encourage economic activity as an end all and be all for all human endeavors. Money, property and all other worldly goods are a gift of God to mankind to be used for the service of mankind. These have to be earned by honest means and should not be accumulated by torture and deprivation of other sections of the society. Excessive accommulation of wealth is considered burdensome and unnecessary. The Sikhs believe that uncontrolled indulgence in the pursuit of wealth is at the root of various ills of the society. In sum, Sikhism adopts a middle path where even when not being attached to accommulation of wealth, a Sikh endeavors to earn an honest living, sharing his earnings with not so fortunate, does not renounce worldly activity, knowing fully well that he has a higher purpose and aim in life. He does not overlook the moral, social, religious and spiritual obligations in pursuit of wealth. His economic activity does not degenerate into greed or lust for power over others.

I believe that ultimate world peace can be achieved when prosperity comes through a happy combination of religion and economic activity. Socialist economies have failed to bring peace to mankind and have bred corruption and lower standards of living for everybody. The free capitalistic economy, where big fish eats small fish, often leads to various aberrations and depressions, where the poor becomes poorer and wealth is accumulated in the hands of a select few. It is time to give a trial to voluntarily regulated economic activity dominated by religious ethics and based on universal brotherhood. People will only do this if they perceive it as being in their own self interest. This is where religion can play its part. This is beautifully summ

ed in a hymn.

"JIS GRIHA BAHUT TISE GRIHA CHINTA

JIS GRIHA THOREE SO PHIRE BHARMANTA

DUHU BIVASTHA TE JO MUKTA SOEY SOHELA JANIYE."(MARU, pp. 1019)

"He, who has more is worn by care;

He, who has less, wanders about (in search of more);

He, alone is in peace who has neither less nor more."

Will it succeed? Possibly yes. Religion is far more effective driving force than all the government regulations put together. It has succeeded to some extent in the small Sikh community. But it will need more fine tuning for its application on a global scale. Still it is worth a trial in this troubled world hankering for peace and where quite a large number of people are below the poverty line inspite of significant advancement in science.

Harjit K. Arora (Phone) (315) 445-4436

Professor of Economics

Economics Department (fax) (315) 445-4540

Le Moyne College

Syracuse, NY 13214

E-mail: arora@maple.lemoyne.edu

check www.purewal.org...

SO LET US DISCUSS LIFE AFTER DEATH WITH SIKH YOUTH!!!!!!! :T:

my personal view is may that Girl have peace and God's blessing in what ever path she may have chosen....BUT what i sthe reason?

read this mail from sikh agenda @ yahoo:

From: "Jagjit Singh" <jagjitsingh@f2s.com>

Subject: Us, egroups, and Islam

waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

Pyare jio, recently I encountered a bibi who was heavily influenced by

islam. She wanted to have a debate with me. She seemed quite confident

she was going to convince me about the superiority of Islam. I

accepted. The angle she used was all about life after death.

A few weeks later I was talking to another local Gursikh about this. He

said this was so strange. He said in the office he worked, he too was

approached, and also asked about life after death. He said not only

this, but his brother who studies in a birmingham university was also

asked the same questions. So was his sister, who is a teenager in a leeds

school. We thought this cannot be a coincidnce that in the matter a two

weeks four practicing sikhs are approached by muslims with exactly the

same questions. These are just the people we know, how many more?

Wondering about this, we came to the conclusion, that there must be

some kind of organised approach to this. Quite possibly an egroup, which

regularly lists questions which can be asked to all non-muslims, to

question their faith, and then interest them in islam.

Two weeks ago, I met another sikh who works as a teacher in a school.

He said he has alot of muslim kids in his class. He said one of them

even came up to him, put his arm around him, and said, "gi

ve me half an

hour, and I will convince you islam is the only way." He said he was

amazed at the level of confidence in these kids that they could say

something like that to their teacher.

waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

Mail cont`d - debate on life after death

[This message contained attachments]

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:54:18 +0100

From: "Jagjit Singh" <jagjitsingh@f2s.com>

Subject: life after death - sikhi & islam

Cont`d from last mail.. (sorry small font so it can all be fitted on

one mail.) Below is the debate we had about this subject, initiated by

the bibi.

Bibi: Bhaji, You sikhs believe in reincarnation. This is a completely

absurd theory. It does not make sense. How can a human then become a

pig?

Das: Bhen ji, both sikhs and hindus believe in re-incarnation, but our

belief is different in some areas, but the whole concept of

re-incarnation is not about what a person becomes in their next life, but about

escaping the cycle of life and death and becoming mukht.

Bibi : But how do you become a pig from a human?

Das: The body is just a vessel, only the soul is what is of value. This

soul can be born in any vessel.

Bibi: I do not accept this, I think it is absurd.

Das: Bhen ji, that is your choice. A person after death is judged

according to their thoughts & actions. It is according to this judgement,

that they are honoured or dishonoured in the next life. But even this is

not so important. The important thing is to be able to break the cycle

in life and death, while alive. To be able to attain a spiritual plain

and obtain mukhti. Then it does not matter what you will be in the next

life, for you are free and merged with God. That is the key to

re-incarnation, that one breaks free from this cycle.

Bibi: Fine, but is sikhi the way? Judgement day will come upon us all.

Das: Yes it will, and it happens eve

ryday. Everyday we are judged, and

every action we do has a re-action. But in the end to Judgement day

will come, we call it the Dharam Raj, you call it different.

Bibi: No, judgement day will come to everyone on this earth. The day

will be beckoning, when Allah judges all, and the muslims will rise.

Das: You mean the muslims will rise, ie. all the ones buried in coffins

will rise again and you will have an army of zombies fighting against

non-muslims. You find re-incarnation absurd, but you find this

acceptable?

Bibi: Islam is the truth, it is the only way. All those who are

non-muslims will become muslims.

Das: Judgement day as a concept is complete nonsense. It does not make

sense.

Bibi: How can you say that?

Das: Bhen ji, relax and listen. Firstly you believe in a day. Why? God,

Allah, Waheguru, does not believe in day and night, God is timeless.

Day and night is a concept of man, and the result of the earth circling

the sun. Why would God wait for a day to judge everyone. God is beyond

that. It is a continuous process as in sikhi has with the Dharam raj.

Do you believe God is not capable of judging people continuously. Why

wait for a day? Them muslims who died centuries ago are then unlucky for

they have had to stay in coffins all this time, decomposing, waiting

for this day to come when they can be judged. Does this not seem an

ineffective way, surely continuous judgement via dhram raj is more sensible,

and God`s way is Truth. I see more truth in continuous judgement.

Bibi: yes, but your way, turns a human into a pig?

Das: Bhen ji, You are stuck on one silly point. God gives his beloved

souls many many chances, it is they who choose whether to take this

chance or not. If they do not then they come back in some form or another.

Just because muslims do not like pigs, does not mean they are bad. A

pig is part of Allah`s creation aswell, just like everything else. A

person who is a friend of

God, is also a friend on his creation. That

person learns to love and appreciate everything God has created.

Bibi: No, in islam there is only one chance, there is only one way, and

you are judged according to it.

Das: How can this be the way of God? Even a mother with a child. The

child as it grows up makes thousands of mistakes, the mother sometimes

gets frustrated, but never stops loving the child. The mother always

forgives and has that compassionate nature. And we are talking of God. It

is God who put that compassionate nature into the mother. How can we say

God is not compasionate at all? The human will make thousands of

mistakes in their life, no matter how holy they are, but God will always love

them, help them, and be compassionate towards them. he gives them

thousands of chances.

Bibi: Yes, true a mother is compassonate and so must be God. l have to

read deeper, maybe in islam you do get another chance.

Das: Then if you do get another chance, then that chance has a form.

Whether or not you accept it, then that is a form of re-incarnation, and

non-acceptance of Judgement day theory.

(Bibi goes quiet, revelation suddenly dawns upon her)

Bibi: No, No, I will have to get back to you ... We will talk about

this again..

Bibi left.

waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

http://www.brudirect.com/DailyInfo/News/Ar...210702/bb03.htm

BruneiDirect.Com

21st July, 2002

First Sikh to convert to Islam :D

The number of people of other faiths, who have converted to Islam

continues

to increase.

Yesterday four people, including a Sikh girl, embraced Islam together

at a

ceremony at the Islamic Dakwah Centre in Kampong Pulaie, RTB reported

yesterday.

The Sikh girl, Amrita Kaur Sandhu's new Muslim name is Isya Aqillah

binti

Abdullah. Dayang Isya Aqillah, 17, is a student at Menteri Secondary

School.

She decided to embrace Islam because she believes that Islam is a truly

holy

religion.

Records show she is the first Sikh to embrace the faith in the country,

RTB

reported.

The conversion ceremony was witnessed by the Assistant Director the

Islamic

Dakwah Centre, Dayang Hjh Zasia Sirin. The three other new Muslim

converts

are an Iban, a Bisaya and a Chinese.

Liew Che Liong is now known as Awang Muhammad Zulhilmi bin Abdullah.

Saidi

Anak Kayok has taken the Muslim name Awang Muhammad Saiful Saidinee bin

Abdullah. Dayang Merdiana Anak Liang is now known as Dayang Nurdiana

binti

Abdullah Liang.

No Veerje...it is not completed yet...hope it will se soon...i just want to read the complete trans. of Bhai Gurdas ji's Varan and Dasam Granth....

Great stuff veerje....but where did you find it? museam...hehe..do u go to museams?...LOL

Veerjee..what i have heard is that (i am not sure) that Damdami Taksal (is like some other Taksals) a place where Sikhs could learn how to read Gurbani and it's meaning and perhaps Sikh history and even Rehitnamas..........so it might be called a Sikh University....Guru Gobind Singhjee started also some other such Taksals - or places of learning, but i think they are not as popular... :T:

if you somehow look into the register of the members of SGPC and the Gyanis/Jathedars who work at Akal Takht, some are connected to DamDami Taksal in a way....like some of their own family members have studied there....

I do not think Akal Takht and DamDami Taksal could be fighting about authority amongst each others.....

Akal Takht is and shall be the FINAL Sikh Diwan........

DamDami Taksal is and shall be the BEST place for learning Gurbani and it's meanings.......

and period!

If we look into history; Baba Deep Singh jee was the first Jathedar of Damdami Taksal....along with Bhai Mani Singh (who was Granthi/Giani) Baba Deep Singh was also incharge of Akal Takht....and later he was the Jathedar of Shahidan-Wali-Misl, which was one of the five Sikh misls that were broadly called Taruna Dal of Nihangs.....facinating isn't it....the same leader for The Diwan, The University and The Army.....(and sadly now some people fight with eachother...)

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

:nihungsmile:

apparently...Thanx Veerje for posting quotes from Rehitnama...i think that is what i said in the first post (in Sehajdhari and Voting Right topic) that EVEN ME, how is not a Amritdhari, is a Sehajdhari.....Kesadhari is a wrong word for me... :D )

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Here is the DEAL guys.....:

} all members of Parbandak Commetees (5 member commetian, mukh-sevadars, so on) should be baptised Sikhs...Amritdhari

} all members of the Gurdwara should be granted a membership-card (like the master cards, so that show around to their friends that they are official members of GD...just kidinh) (for over 18 years old). Both Amritdhari, Keshadhari and Sehajdhari should be given right to vote....i am fully aware that this may bring up a situation where non-sikhs, as Sehajdhari Sikhs are voting for a party that does not want Panth's best.....FOR THAT REASON....an official document should be created with the help of SGPC (and other GPCs in Europe, Delhi, Amrecia, Canada, Pak, East-Asia, South India) which should be fully accepted by Akal Takht and other takhts, whcih should state the following points:

- main defs of being a Sikh from SRM and that 'I see myself as a Sikh according to SRM and have full belief in Sikh religion and only faith in God...'and the point that one always wants the best for the Panth and accepts the authority of Sri Akal Takht and accepts the edicts (Hukamnamas) given from Sikh Seats (and the anoucements made by local leaders) as the Common View of the Sikhs and thereby a overuled statement....

- this should be signed by ALL who consider themselves official members of the GD Sahib....and all get thereby the right to vote....and if they are found not following the document "Sikh Voting Right Act" :D )..they should be brought to the 5 local Singh Sahiban (mainly if they start trouble againt Rehit and official Hukams)...and given punishment of selfless seva :D ) and a no-optional acception of the Edict or Rehit...

} (smaller)sevadars should be chosen to do every kind of seva / rakhi (langar, dekhpal)...these could be chosen among ALL members...[however at Sikh Historical GDs run by SGPC...sevadars should be Amritdhari as all other officials, and only Amridharis should run for SGPC elections..not even Kesadharis..because these shrines have a special importance, my opinion..]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

what do u guys think.....i think this one is both fair and not against the Sikh Rehit Maryada (SRM)..... :D

Umm.. i hear lots of bad things about this missionary college..

Bhajee i have no conrete info about this School...however from the sheet Learner Singh jee presented it looks nice to me....anyway could you, Vicky Bhaji, please tell us more.......if they are just saying please say so..if u have something conrete please say so.....hope some other Singhs can varify your points....

:oo:

THAT GAVE ME THE BESSSSSSST IDEA....

:D )

Thanx Bhainjee....

u know guys...i used to be sad cause of this...now i am very happy.......because it make sing....that's the way it is....that is the way Waheguru ji wanted...that is the way life is....and let it be like that... :D ) just chill...do Naam Simran and selfless seva...they and also non-sikhs will understand with Waheguru ji's Kirpa....Khalsa Raaj will come when Guru ji Himself will rule....and it will not be boundaries...jus bliss carm...LOVE....it makes me sing agian.............

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

ppl...i have read here that it depend upon where u live and what kind of ppl u hang out with......WHY? is n't it better if we live with every kind of ppl who r not Gursikhs and follow the rehit, cause that is what Guru Gobind Singh jee wanted that one could see his sikhs amoung the Lakhs... :D

i live where there is no sikh.....a lot of pakis and some indis....a very bad area, almost a GHETTOOOO :D ) .....but with Waheguru ji's Kirpa....we unstable the Ghetto with our Singh Shan.... :nihungsmile:

living in a rural white suburb ... it encourages you to know who u r and so by that.. theres a lot more chance that you will become/remain a sikh than living in a high indian/punjabi populated city

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAH Sikh FOR Life Bhajee......that makes me think if farming/kheti bari is the best way to be a Sikh....live on the Farms of Cali or Canada and follow complete Rehit.... :nihungsmile:

Honestly veer...do all these things matter?? These terms are useless in my mind...Let us focus on our own progression and help those who ask for it :D

Bhainjeo......

NO THEY DO NOT MATTER TO ME...the defs.

but my question was whether S. Sikhs are allowed to vote or be leaders at your GD....are they? Bhainjeo u r rite....the thing is to work to make them -> :D ) or :nihungsmile: .....but as u may know some S. Sikhs say that they should be allowed to run for election and so on....that is my point...and most of S. Sikhs know that it is against Sikhi to cut hair and say that they are perhaps therefore not the rite people to teach others Sikhi...(even tough in my personal view everyone who loves Waheguru jio will meet Waheguru..ev

en if they r sikhs or not...so whay not S. Sikhs..but running for GD election is something else...)

any way as i said i do not care about defs. the reason why i gave a def was to make it clear that others who answar should not start saying what is S. Sikhs and what is a Patit Sikh and so onnnnn......(btw....which def says about Mool Mantar...never heard of it...perhaps u can send me a PM about that so we open for discussion about defs in this topic... :D ) )

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Sehajdhari Sikhs (well the word itself is strange because some would say a sehajdhari is a sikh without hair, others say it a person from other religion who has interest in Sikhi/or wants to become a Sikh, and Sehajdharis themselfes say they are unorthodox or liberal Sikhs who do not follow the 'Sikh Dress code' or 'eating codes' )

i just want to know if S. Sikhs are allowed to vote in common Gurdwara elections held at various Sikh Gurdwaras...i know some places they are also running the Parbandak Cometian and are leaders....how is the situation at UR Gurdwaras.....and do you think S. Sikhs should be allowed to do so (have in mind Sikh Rehit Maryada and remember to see in SGGS and SRM...and perhaps other scriptures to say why or why not..)

Just for a note: SGPC allows only Kesadhari Sikhs to vote in SGPC elections....

There is a org. for S. Sikhs...called Sehajdhari Sikh Federation....

Anyway....99% of all Sikhs ( -> :D ) ) do not follow or use the original Sikh Dress...the Baana with Dumalla and Shasstar (weapons)..are we also S. Sikhs...since we are still learning to go the rite way....-> :nihungsmile:

Deep...

Is there a balance between religion and society?

Should there be?

Veer Nokia....i need to know more to answar this one....what exactly do you point to?....

Casually speaking, i think Sikhi teaches us to live a honest living and make the world a better place for others also, besides ur self.....like do selfless seva and help others who are helpless and weak. So by doing this i guess, Sikhs can live in every society and create a balance between their life and the scoiety.....

now as i said, i need to know what this balance is....is it political or just social , or pyschological....

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

eh, it dunt say anything on the page.........can sum1 please give me a direct link.

thanx

raz :g

Veerjee check the link here:

http://www.stewartmorris.com/personal/essays.htm#p27

and remember on copy it and paste in a new window.... :D )

u see article nr. 3, under section 6 'Sociology and Politics of South Asia'

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

All in all, the author makes the typical attampt to analyze the Punjab issue with Government facts. Such practice is short-sighted, given the dubious Government involvement in the Punjab crisis.

Nice try, but a failure nevertheless.

you are right.......

Bhajee......i understand what u say....and probably i would agree with you in every matter...

the only reason i pasted this article here was because i thought it was 'better' than most of the propaganda Indian govrnment sends and the western scholars support it....but in this article the writter also say that Indira was not a so smart women......

i think the writer does not say that Sant jee was a congressia....however what he says is that Congress tried to help Sant jee in SGPC election (offcourse to divide SIkh Panth....but Sant jee's message was: Panthic Unity)..and in that matter Sant jee helped congress next year election..... I DO NOT BELIVE THE LAST PART..because the man does not give any proff....and to me it sounds like congress pushed their help to Bhindranwale jee even though he did not support them....their motiv was to divide Sikhs....and that i think they achieved and still you can see how AkALI dAL factions r fighting.....

well, if it is a Singh who killed her....than i think it was wrong anyway.....he should have contacted the 'sant' who told here do that....and given him a lesson.....[ :g ]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Fellow Singhs/Kaurs i found this article at a site: http://www.stewartmorris.com/personal/index.htm

to me this article sounds much more balanced towards the Sikh-India trouble.....however the usuall 'terrorist' label given to Sant Bhindranwale is also here.....

what do you guys this about the way Stewart Morris writes.....

How did India’s Punjab crisis arise and how has it been resolved?

The storming of the Golden Temple in Amritsar by the Indian Army during Operation Bluestar has been described as “a disastrous political decision and a seriously bungled military operation”. Reportage in the Indian press tended to focus on the Sikh provocateur Bhindranwale, whose heavily-armed forces sought sanctuary in the temple. However, the blame for the crisis does not rest solely with Bhindranwale. This essay examines why Mrs. Gandhi felt it was necessary to order such an assault, and concludes that in addition to some long-term simmering tensions, the problem was, in part, of her own making, and that it has not really been resolved at all.

Increased communalisation in the Punjab was the background to the crisis, and helps to explain why the problem was so serious; the terrorists in the Golden Temple were part of a much wider cultural movement, and must be seen in this context. Communalisation happened partly as a result of long-t

erm socio-economic factors. The Sikh youth in the countryside were already frustrated with the tapering-off of the Green Revolution, causing great pressure on the land, and moved into urban areas in order to find employment. Unlike in the colonial era, Sikhs were no longer privileged in finding employment in the Indian Army, so needed formal education to succeed in city-based businesses. Literacy rates are relatively high in Punjab, and there was frustration among Sikh youth that even with their education they had difficulties finding employment. An outlet for such frustration was the All-India Sikh Students Federation (AISSF) which pressed for more political power for Sikhs, and showed some sympathy to the idea of an independent Sikh state. During the Emergency many of its members were imprisoned, which initiated into the movement and politicised a whole generation of Sikh youths. Under the leadership of Bhai Amrik Singh, membership of this organisation increased from around ten thousand to well over one hundred thousand. There were also economic fault lines among the Sikhs themselves, caused partly by the extra benefit of the Green Revolution to larger landowners. The richer peasants traditionally supported the more moderate Akali Dal party, so militants like Bhindranwale were able to garner support among frustrated peasants as well as urban youth.

Brass argues that the communalisation of the Punjab was inevitable, as India ‘was not and could not be a nation-state’. It was in Brass’s view a multi-national state, a view which Indian policy-makers at the centre understood, in practice even if not in principle. There was a type of unofficial dual nationalism, whereby people could feel like a member of a Sikh, Tamil or Bengali nation at one level, and an Indian nation at another. A new minority consciousness emerged in the few years preceding the Punjab crisis, suggesting that communalism is not always traceable to tradition, nor confined to communal parties. Sikhism is a very young religion, with on

ly a small gulf between the laity and the hierarchy, which allowed individual preachers to agitate by appealing to the people’s economic and social interests. It was also a vehicle for the assertion of the affluence of the Sikh community. The greatest change in minority consciousness came in 1980, when the Akali Dal passed their Anandpur Sahab resolution. Disputes over Chandigarh, other territory and the sharing of river waters came to a head. It suggested that Chandigarh should be the capital of Punjab, territorial disputes should be investigated by a territorial tribunal, and river water disputes should be settled by the Supreme Court. Generally throughout India three phases in centre-state relations can be shown: the initial demand for unilingual states, nativist or ‘sons of the soil’ movements, and finally regional movements demanding more regional autonomy. The demands of the Akali Dal were mainly regional; since Sant Fateh Singh took over the SGPC their policies were articulated as being applicable to Punjabis, not just to Sikhs. However, with interference from the central government, this regional movement became ethnicised, with disastrous results.

The centralising tendencies of Mrs. Gandhi’s Congress government were well known. Challenged electorally after 1965, Congress began to adopt a much more aggressive political style. In 1971 Mrs. Gandhi was responsible for the de-linking of parliamentary from legislative assembly elections, and a new method of selecting Chief Ministers was established, whereby the Prime Minister relied on the advice of her close personal advisers. Direct intervention came about first in 1970 when the BKD in Punjab failed to deliver three votes in the Rajya Sabha which were expected by Congress. In retaliation, Congress withdrew from the BKD government in Uttar Pradesh, bringing it down in the process. The fates of central and state governments had become interlinked. In order to maintain power in the centre, Congress felt obliged to centralise power, nationalise i

ssues and intervene directly in state and even local politics. However, as state governments were increasingly packed with those loyal to Mrs. Gandhi, such interventions became misguided and misinformed.

The Anandpur Sahab resolution became more important after 1980, as Gupta states, because the Akali Dal were able to claim more ‘source credibility’. This came about because of the gulf between the transparency of the Akalis’ demands and the negative reaction of Congress. The resolution was labelled secessionist, the 1978 case on water disputes was withdrawn from the Supreme Court, and the demand for Chandigarh was made conditional on the near-impossible transfer of Abohar and Fazilka to Haryana. Such actions led the Akali Dal to talk in August 1982 of a dharam yudh or religious war. This was thought to be irrelevant at the time but was brought sharply back into focus by Operation Bluestar and the Sikh massacres on November 4th 1984.

The undercutting of moderate groups by Congress and the refusal to talk to Akali leaders gave the Akalis a dilemma, as Gupta states:

“The moderates were thus shoe-horned into a dilemma by the force of their own latent potentialities. Each rebuff by the centre gave respectability, albeit in small doses, to refactory Sikhs, and any concession to these elements by the Akali Dal weakened Longowal’s public commitment to the integrity of India, to the Anandpur Sahab resolution and to communal amity”

Tully and Jacob emphasise Mrs. Gandhi’s indecisiveness during the crisis, acting only when her back was against the wall. This would be uncharacteristic of her, but even if it is true, it does not explain the type of response, an Army assault rather than political accommodation with the Akali Dal. Congress had altered the political balance by ensuring that central power depended on both an ability to control the states and the ability to sway voters by creating a ‘wave’ on an emotive set of issues. Were Mrs. Gandhi to have come to an agreement with the Akali

Dal, she might have lost power in Punjab, where the Akalis would claim the credit, and in Haryana, where the transfer of Chandigarh to Punjab would be seen as a sign of weakness. Centralisation can in this way be seen as one of the primary causes of the crisis.

Factionalism in Congress also helps to explain some of the early origins of the crisis. Nehru had always taken a tough stance on communalism, casteism, linguism and provincialism, speaking the language instead of socialism, planning and industrialisation as the means of progress for all of India. His preferred style of Chief Minister in the states was a ‘boss’ who would deal firmly with regional issues. Mrs. Gandhi had a similar view on the unity of India but preferred sycophants to ‘bosses’ in the states. She preferred provincial instability, and weak Chief Ministers entirely dependent on her, in order to maintain central control and ensure the loyalty of all groups. These ministers of course led to instability. In Punjab, both Zail Singh and Darbara Singh were ineffective as Chief Ministers. Zail Singh supported programs favouring scheduled castes and backward classes, which antagonised many prosperous Jat Sikh farmers. After Zail Singh was promoted to home minister in the government of India, he used his position to undercut Darbara Singh. Bhindranwale was used to show that Darbara Singh could not govern Punjab effectively. Mrs. Gandhi’s relationship with Zail Singh meant that she allowed this to take place, asking him for advice in handling the crisis and failing to support Darbara Singh’s desire to root out the terrorists before they had claimed sanctuary in the Akal Takht and fortified the entire complex.

The radical Sikh preacher Bhindranwale has a controversial role in the crisis and in the terrorist actions of 1981-84. In the view put across in most scholarly writings, he is seen as a preacher picked up by Congress in order to divide the Akali Dal and ensure the persistence of Congress rule. He then developed his own line, metho

ds and support, becoming an independent political force feared by Punjabi politicians, who were willing to take no actions he opposed and became incapable of participating effectively in a political process dominated by violence. A second view sees Bhindranwale as a preacher whose political activities were incidental thereto, and blames the violence primarily on other groups such as political extremists, sects and even the police; he was, according to this view, used as a scapegoat by Congress to deflect attention from their own role in the crisis.

There can be little doubt that the proselytising and revivalist Bhindranwale was important to Sikh self-perception as a community; he put his Sikh faith squarely in opposition with Marxist or secular ideology. It was difficult for the Akali Dal to criticise someone expressing what were widely seen as legitimate Sikh demands. Revivalist preachers were hardly a new phenomenon in the Punjab, but he was able to use much more effective methods of communication than ever before, such as distribution of his taped messages, a tactic often used by Muslim preachers in Iran and elsewhere in the Arab world. The worst violence initially was directed against the Nirankaris, a Sikh-Hindu group seen as heretical by the dominant and orthodox Keshdhari group. Bhindrawale was not necessarily involved in the murders but expressed satisfaction with them. The instability is summed up well by Brass:

“From April 13th 1978 onward, Punjab became the scene of warfare among heavily armed terrorist groups bent on exterminating each other for the glory and purity of the Sikh faith.”

One of the greatest tragedies of the crisis was the support given to Bhindranwale by the Congress Party for their own political gain. Congress leaders supported him and his followers in the 1979 election to the SGPC, in response for which Bhindranwale supported Congress in the 1980 general election. It seems that for Congress the primary aim was political control, and settlement of the issues was second

ary. However their goals were ultimately incompatible - Bhindranwale was for Sikh unity, while Congress was for Sikh division. Nevertheless, only when terrorists began killing Hindus did the strategy of Congress change, as they needed to portray themselves as the protectors of Hindu Punjabis. In Haryana, Congress organised mob violence against Sikhs in towns. As Brass says:

“As in the past, the government of India responded to lawlessness and violence with violence and lawlessness”

Bhindranwale was perhaps not such a central figure as the press made out, as the crisis was more about the symbols which he represented: Sikh values, Panthic unity and communal identity. Yet by supporting him Congress created the very conditions it hoped to prevent, that is the greatly increased solidarity of Jat Sikhs and a movement of the (scheduled-caste) Mazhabi Sikhs to the Akali Dal.

However, the Akali Dal cannot be seen as exempt from blame. As Kohli says, this was a tragedy with no visible heroes. Rivalry was rife between the various branches of Sikh government - the SGPC, Akali Dal politicians and the ministerial offices - in terms of their visions of the nation, social class, regional backing and personal competition for leadership. This meant that there was no strong moderate representative of the Sikhs to deal with Congress. The terms of the factional quarrel were changed by the actions of Congress and the rise of Bhindranwale, but had a single leader established complete dominance over the Akali Dal the crisis might have been averted. The Akali Dal, by abandoning its religious stance for a secular one, helped to create the ‘space’ in which Bhindranwale could put forth his vision of a new Sikh identity based on inner conviction.

The immediate resolution of the crisis was simple and brutal - an assault on the holiest site of Sikhism in which Bhindranwale and his followers, along with hundreds of Sikh pilgrims, were killed and the Akal Takht (the centre of the temple itself) was largely destroyed. Two d

ays after the official end of Operation Bluestar, the Sikh library in the temple complex was set on fire, and hundreds of Sikhs were arrested and tortured in an atmosphere reminiscent of the anti-Naxalite operations the previous decade. The task of rebuilding the Akal Takht was given by the government to a member of the Buddha Dal, a renegade Sikh sect. The damage caused to Sikh pride by these events was enormous, and it was inevitable that the problem would not end there.

The death of Mrs. Gandhi brought some hope to Sikhs in Punjab, and the Akali Dal appeared to be in a stronger position than before. Longowal, their leader, publicly distanced himself from the faction led by Bhindranwale’s father, and the Rajiv-Longowal accord suggested that mutual cooperation would be the way forward. Rajiv was in a more secure position than his mother had been, and his concessions to the Akalis looked like magnanimity rather than an admission of defeat. Akali leaders and some other Sikhs were released from prison, an enquiry into the killings in Delhi was ordered, and the ban on the AISSF was lifted. Support for Sikh militants declined and the Akali Dal won the 1985 election.

However, Rajiv (who himself came to power on a wave of Hindu nationalist sentiment) failed to address the issue of the Sikhs’ hurt pride, and the peace could not be sustained. An extremely hectic schedule at the beginning of his term, combined with the highly personalised decision-making system instituted by his mother, meant that Rajiv failed to implement the accord between Congress and the Akali Dal. This paved the way for militants to get the upper hand again. Factionalism among the Akalis continued, and there was a climbing spiral of repression and terrorism which the police were unable to effectively contain. During 1986 the massive increase in terrorist killings (after a fall in 1985) was blamed on a ‘soft’ government. Terrorism was described as a ‘police problem’ by Rajiv, not a political one.

The Mishroi report into the Delhi k

illings failed to implicate any senior Congress party officials in the killings of Sikhs, and this stirred up more tension. Militants charged that the Akali Dal government in Punjab were acting as stooges of New Delhi for selfish reasons of power. In May 1987 a familiar situation returned as Rajiv re-imposed Presidential Rule on Punjab. Between 1982 and 1992 nearly 20 000 people were killed in incidents relating to the Punjab crisis. The situation in Punjab highlights the major structural problem produced by the conflict between a centralising government and the long-term tendency in India towards pluralism and regionalism.

It might be assumed from this that the problem in Punjab is intractable. It has been suggested that Congress, the Akali Dal and the terrorists were all playing a zero-sum game, as Punjab’s gain would have been Haryana’s or Rajasthan’s loss. However, this position cannot be sustained, as trade-offs are available which do not present such a problem, such as central funds for a new capital in Haryana, canals built from the disputed rivers and consistent principles applied to disputed territory. It seems more reasonable to suggest that the main cause of the crisis was the failure of either Congress or the moderate Akali leaders to adopt a solution which did not present them with political advantage or which threatened political damage, and that its eventual solution lies in genuine ‘statesmanship’ where the good of the region and the nation is placed above the interest of the party and the politician.