punjab5

Not taking away from the postive aspects of the show, but what was needed was information about who can be contacted for assisatnce, i.e. Groups already set up to assist, social services, police other web sites, this is not a problem for the Sikh Community but all, that is grooming. So needs to be tackled by all communtites working together. The Muslim community, to name but one, also has this issue within.

Some facts: The Jews have an independant State-Israel, what have we got ????

The creation of the state of Israel was supported by the West after WW2, by annexing Palestine, i.e. kicking out the Mulsims from there homes and giving them to the Jews (a strategic move by the West to have an influence within the Middle East). The justification was that this was the promised land for the Jews from God !!!!.

Not quite, the ISYF was set up by him, but when it was banned it morphed into the Sikh Federation (UK), which calimed to have Rode in the same capacity as in the ISYF, but when it transpired this was not true, the people who disagreed with this act by the Sikh Federation UK split to form the IPD, which recognises Rode as the patron of the organisation.

SF(UK) is still doing a tremendous job though.

l stand corrected.

However my understanding is that just before SF UK was formed offically after the ISYF was banned, the 3 federations that had been formed as a result of splits all unified to come together under the banner of SF UK. Baba Taker Singh ji was instrumental in ensuring this happened. As each of the earlier 3 factions was aligned to a leader in Punjab, i.e. Daljit Singh Bittu and Jasbir Singh Rode, it was agreed that the leadership of SF UK would be that in the UK, as an Independant Organiastion, but upmost respect and support would continue for both Daljit Singh Bittu and Jasbir Singh Rode as they sacrificed a lot for the panth and were still (and are) working for a Sikh Homeland, as well as support for other panthic jathebandies. There have been efforts to get Jasbir Singh Rode and Daljit Singh Bittu to work together as a collective leadership, but maybe EGO's have gotten in the way.

Sikhs in the UK have tried in the past to get Mann Sahib, Bittu, Jasbir Singh Rode and others to work together, but to no avail. The Khalsa Action Committee was foremd of all the panthic jathebandis and backing of Sant Samaj, but Badal feeling threathned use his politics to split it, with Sant Samaj and Jasbir Rode along with Sant Bhrindwale's family leaving to support Badal.

Rode has set up his own party the International Panthic Dal, beacuse he wanted UK Sikhs to accept him as their only leader as l ahve ben told, please corect if l am wrong.

We can only keep trying.

PPP are the party that will most damage Sikhism, they are too closely alinged to the Commies and willl focus on issues at the cost of Sikhi or any other religion.

Congress - could never support a party, on principle, that has within its membership, those people that were involved in the massacre of innocent Sikhs in Noc 1984 (none have been expelled), even though they may have sound policies.

Akali Dal Amritsar - In principle should get the vote based on panthic and Khalistan issues, however Mann Sahib is not a good politican. This party should continue and try to get all Khalistanis on board. It is Mann Sahib's ego that is in the way. The SNP in Scotland had no or little support at the start, they continued on their path, changed some policies but stuck to the principle of an Independant Scotland and are know the majority and in power in Scotland.

Of all the evils, the lesser evil is SAD Badal, so it gets might my support.

l wear a patka and my Kirpan within a 'Kamarkza' around my waist.

The Khalsa Action Committee, was formed by all the panthic jathebandia coming together. The first to part ways was Simranjeet Mann (his only problem is that he is not a team player), then Badal seeing it as a threat, got the main driving force behind the KAC, arrested, Bhai Daljit Singh Bittu. Badal then managed to split the KAC further by getting the Sant Samaj (and thus DDT and Sant Bhrindwales family), to part ways, by offering them some SGPC places (candidates on behalf of SAD), not sure how many they got in the end and also some candidates in the punjab elections.

It seems that at present Babb Baljeet Singh Daduwale, is leading the Sant Samaj (he too recently had a serious of meetings with Sukbir Badal).

l do not think that any legal actions can be taken against Badal. What needs to be done is a list of promises he made and his record of delivering against them, for example:

Release of Sikh political Prisoners

Cases against those Police personnel guilty of human rights violations etc

Then we need a list of when he has betrayed or worked against the interest of the Panth (not people of punjab, but just Sikhs), for example:

Dera's , i.e. Ludihana Kand, Sacha Suda visits etc.

These need to be incorporated into a poster campaign, starting with youtube and facebook (harder for the Badals to control) and then expanding into print media.

Al we need is for someone to take forward who has the media skills to do this, unfortunatley l do not.

The reality is that this was test /challenge to panthic Sikhs and jathenandis, to see if they cared about this issue or where just interested in promoting themselves. As stated in an earlier post, had it not been for those Singhs attaending and speaking on stage, the outcome would have been different and other Gurdwaras with anti panthic committees would have been encouraged to do likewise.

So well done to all those that attended, and should panthic unity- Sikh Federation and AKJ and other gurdwara committe members (peer pressure). Also good to see youngsters and elder generation.

From what l have been told, dissaponited in lack of youth and other orgs, like SAS, BOSS, Taksali youth and newley formed organisations attending and supporting. Hope they do next time to show unity.

It would be good to hear from the newly formed International Panthic Dal, on this issue. As they fully support the Sant Smaj ?

These Singhs have been declared as Shaeeds by the Akal Takht. I am sure the constitution of the Gurdwara has reference to the Akal Takht.

This is a direct challenge to the Sikh Panth, to see if we are still awake, are we going to accept and support the local sangat in a peacefull manner?

The Sikh Channel is manipulating and using the Sikh community, whereas it should be the Sikh community using the channel. They have no sense of responsibility that goes with being a media organisation. At least Raaj radio was serving the Sikhs with respect, lets hope traaj does not go down the same route as the Sikh Channel in this partnership.

If we truly believe that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is our living Guru, then whenever we have darshan of Guru Granth Sahib ji, we have darshan all the Gurus.

Guru Gobind Singh also siad that if you want my darshan then if you see Panj tyar biar Singhs then that is the same as my darshan, down to a single Singh, or if none present and you are an amritdhari, then look at yourself in the mirror and you will see me.

Excellent, could l ask who in the EU Commission will this petition go to ?

Would be good to also send to the Belgian President/Prime Minister

What is the response of the Sant Samaj, who had an alliance with SAD Badal for the SGPC elections, maybe the newley formed IPD, who has supported this alliance set up by Bhai Jasbir Singh, could reply. Where they outmanouvred as mant thought they would be?

This is the reason, why any action taken by any Sikh organisations/institution etc has to be thought through, messages have to be clear to all stakeholders, not just our own community.

I've raised some very basic questions. I don't claim to know any answers. The way things have panned out over the last 2 months, I doubt Sikh Channel thought about them, nor did Sangat TV. I'm not suggesting D-Day was a flop - it seems to have been a success as it galvanized awareness of the issue. But at what cost? Disunity amongst our media and in our Panth?

How influential will D-Day ultimately have been in swaying politicians to our cause? Will it have been counterproductive? Were the means employed proportionate to achieve the desired outcome, assuming the desired outcome was achieved? What was the desired outcome?

The latter 4 questions - you have to rely on the experience of those actually having the discussions with the politicians. Sikh Channel are not qualified to make those judgements, and they chose not to follow the advice of those that were having the political discussions.

The whole point of making the Sikh Council UK was that you would have a representative and qualified group of people leading on these decisions for the Panth. Too often in the past you have had one Jatha/group that has taken actions without consulting the wider Panth - for example, we have a precedent against us (dastaar case) in the European Court of Human Rights on a case that was legally very weak. This will stand against us forever. Quite literally, we have shot ourselves there in the foot, and this is a hindrance to future legal actions. This case was led by an individual with limited support without consulting the wider Panth.

As an already small community, we can only truly be effective if we are united. With this feeling of empowerment from D-Day, I hope we work to further strengthen and participate in our existing institution (SCUK) so that we can successful and strategic in the future!

If we are to look inwardly, it was an event which empowered the sangat. Unfortunatley the approach taken by SC, divided rather than united the Sikhs. SC nor any other organistion can claim to represent the panth. Where SC went wrong was that they should have worked with those that were currently involved in working with the Government and other Institutions to ensure that the protest or awarness day was part of the overall strategy to tackle this issue.

Looking outwardly

Great Media coverage, good awareness raising.

Politically-

Apparently a letter (i presume this is what Jagtar is saying), was wrtiiten to the Italian Embassy in London by Sikh Channel on behalf of the UK Sikh community, saying that they are organising a demonstration. This despite the fact that the SCUK had also written to the Italian Embassy a couple of months earlier and were in negotitations with them. It seems that the Otalians were not plaese with the demonstration nor the contents of the SC letter, however the SCUK reps, managed to say it was not a demo but an awarness raising day.

At the event, a memorandum (would be good if SC could share), was given on behalf of SC to the Britsih Government expressing concerns over the lack of support. Whis is ironic in that we have all heard on the media, what actions the British Government is taking, i.e. have written to all EU transport Ministers etc. This memo, would highlight to the British Government that there is no unity in the Sikh community as we are talking to some key organisations, who as it would seem do not represent all the Sikhs, here is an another group who want to be at the table. Thus totally undermining existing organistion speaking to the Government.There predictable answer would be, please speak to your own Sikh organisations who we have been dealing with, so that they can tell you what we have been doing. This makes the Sikh community look totally unprofessional,

A memo to the Italians that they are not doing enough, even though the Sikhs had a meeting with them on Friday and a meeting arranged for Monday in Rome, would also look totally unprofessional.

So work it out, maybe good in the short term but longer term ???

I have huge suspicion that sangat tv, sikh council and akal takht jathedar are powered by one man; BADAL!

Sikh Channel is a huge threat to indian gov because they expose them regularly like elections, mohali incident, ludiana khand, etc.

Baba Baljit Singh from india even phoned in yesterday live on Sikh Channel asking us all to attend so who needs these pointless press releases at this stage..

Is this the same baba ji who was recently reorted to have had a meeting with Sarna (photo in Des perdes recently)

dastar day is organised by sikh channel and benifits and unites sikh community across europe – ALL OF A SUDDEN sikh council release a statement against it and critise the sikh channel for it....

Maybe my understanding is not that good, but i thought the statement critised all the Sikh media and it has left it individuals to decide if they want to go or not. If SCUK were against then they would have told their members/people not to go, please correct me if l am wrong

"Sikh Channel took this step to organise a protest without any consultation with Jathebandis or Sikh organisations, and it will waste a lot of energy."

SinghWarior ji this is false, jathebandis were contacted including Sikh federation. Can't you see that Sangat tv is just using this as an oppurtunity to attack Sikh channel? It so blatant.

I have no affiliation with channels and hope both continue to air. However it seems that sangat tv are using any opportunity they can to attack Sikh channel also how can they stand up for panthic issues when they are praising politicians from Badals party, in my book this is unforgivable, how can anyone who is genuinely panthic support Badal?

There is a big difference between contacting Jathebandis, i.e. informing them we are doing x and between engaging them in the planning, logistics, outcomes and follow up. I think it was the former for the Sikh Channel.

I have been told that those that have been in meetings with Government officals on this, that the UK government has been speaking to the EU and also minister in other Europaen countries, maybe someone can confirm?

Nothing wrong in raising awarness, however need to have all the facts, so if questioned by an MP, we have the answers.

Sadly Badal has hold over everything from appointing Takht Jathedar in Punjab to the DDT. He has his tentacles over most things in Punjab and until his hold is broken he will continue to use his power to do what he (and his son) want.

Its sad to see that Dhuma has become ghulam to the Badals. Whilst Shaheed Baba Jarnail Singh Ji said that the foundations of Khalistan will be laid when the army attacked Sri Darbar Sahib, these self styled jathedar of today are hand in pocket with the Badals who are staunchly pro Indian union.

How can Badal be a 'gadar' as those that had the strongest relationship with Sant Jarnail Singh ji and profess to continue his legacy are supporting Badal, i.e. DDT and Bhai Jasbir Rode, Captain Harchand Singh Rode and the rest of Sant Jarnail Singh's family ?

Reply was deleted because of character defamation. Please be careful and stay away from idea of writing some very serious allegations without providing any proper proof.

Could you please e-mail me personally on the character defamation, as l do not feel that i did, however stand to be corrected.

Humble apology, the comment was really meant for Punjab5. I wish not to prolong the discussion on this thread other than to say that I.P.D has got nothing to hide. We are genuinely here to ensure Sikhs around the world come together and make a positive change towards the betterment of the Khalsa Panth.

International Panthic Dal (I.P.D) is working on the Sikh principles of Miri-Piri representing temporal and spiritual balance the following aims are being pursued:

Freedom - to practice Sikhism globally and establish an independent Sikh State;

Justice - to obtain justice for the victims of anti-Sikh acts;

Parchaar - to promote Sikhism around the globe;

Seva - to undertake selfless service of humanity;

Welfare - to provide welfare support to Panthic individuals, families and groups;

Feel free to contact us for further information or if you want to get involved at info@panthicdal.com

My questions were not aimed at attacking the IPD, but merley questions for clarification. I am suprised that these were removed, i as far as saying that i am seriously considering withdrawing from Sikh sangat discussions.

The aims of IPD are applaudable, but are similar to a number of existing organisations. If one of the the aims is to ensure that Sikhs around the world come together, then were all existing organisations invited and consulted with, including in Punjab, Akali Dal Amritsar, Akali Dal panch pardani, Dal Khalsa, in the UK, the SF UK, Akand Kirtani jatha, Sikh Council?

Would expect some answers to earlier questions asked, this would clarify a lot of issues and may encourage people to join IPD.

Doesn't mean we should go out of our way to butt in. Its her problem. If she wants to mess around and act like she's a teenage girl then let her. Her loss.

I've never liked her from what I've heard of her. She comes across as very disingenuous and most importantly, she does not care a jot about Sikhi. For her to become almost an overnight figurehead of Sangat TV, that completely tarnishes the image of a supposedly religious Sikh TV channel.

From a media perspective and looking at skills and experience, Sonia is a good media presenter and could be useful for Sangat in that capacity, however it seems that all she is interested in is furthering her career and will do what she has to achieve this. Appearing at Sangat TV, when it is in the limelight and expoloting her community are examples of this.

Upinder, is a total embarrasment to the Sikh community. If you had listened to some of his comments, especailly when trying to quote Gurbani and giving examples from Guru Sahibs life, to this local (i mean when considering a diaspora perspective), does no justice. Other examples, i.e. giving shaeedi, like Bhagat Singh and Udham Singh, how can you compare what they did with the current situtation. I am sure Of com, will look into his comments. It was good to see that the owners of Sangat, on a number of occasions aplogised for what he was saying and stated that they did not support his views, maybe will be useful for when dealing with Of-com.

Having said that, about Upinder, he does have potential if channeld in the right direction with support.