punjab5
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Posts posted by punjab5
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An on line petition has exceeded 100 Thousand in favour of Capital Punishment, which means has to be debated in Parliament
A challenge to us all - Surley we can get 100 Thousand signatures to force a debate on a or a number of Sikh issues, for example India and Human Rights - Ethical Foreign policy-
What do people think ? and ideas for the debate ?
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Personally I see it the other way round now these days!
Maybe its just the people I know but in the East Midlands I know of more Muslim girls having relationships with Sikh boys than the other way round!
I think what happens is as we get more westernised parents become more liberal allowing girls to go out till late, the punjabi community allowed these freedoms a lot sooner and now the Muslim Pakistani community is doing it! So now Muslim girls are going clubbing getting drunk, being allowed to go to another city for uni so get to live in halls. So these opportunities to get into relationships becomes easier for them!
I know of ALOT of muslims girls that come from Bradford/Manchester/B'ham etc that have come uni into East Midlands who are in relationships with Sikh guys as they allow them the freedoms that muslims guys do not!
Its funny because Muslim guys wont go out with Muslim girls... as its a "respect" thing!
Nevertheless this new found freedom that Muslim girls are getting is giving them a bad rep, some are considered to be loose and "skets" as some have put it! For example I know a group of Muslim girls that went on holiday to cyprus with a hindu friend of mine... in their new found freedom they wore barely nothing and made themselves available to guys...
Its inevitable... Muslims girls are doing exactly the same thing some sikh girls used to/still doing... they only just getting the freedom to do it!
The post above summarise what is happening. The Muslim community is also under siege at present, so some lash out at easy options. Islamphobia is a reality, nobody wants to give a job to a muslim, the Quran is being interpreted within a western context.
The elders from the Muslim community are really worried about there youth as well, Muslim Girls, wearing the Hijab, but dolled up like 'Slags', there boys into the whole Terrorist image and into pimping and drug dealing as well as taking drugs etc.
Like an another post earlier, its Youth culture, how bad it goes depends on how the community deals with it.
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Good that someone found a justification to acquit Darshan Lal and his stooges in the garb of criticising Badal and Dhumma.....
Also its absurd if someone sees a Panthic representation in these names.
SGPC has already started planning the memorial. Whether it wil be substantial or not, time will tell.
Although this might not be the place for this, but how can you have a go at Bhai Harnam Singh Dhumma, aligning with Badal for the SGPC elections, when you look at the alliances below:
SGPC poll
- Members of Panthic Morcha: SAD (Delhi), SAD (1920), SAD (Longowal), SAD (Panch Pardhani) and Khalsa Action Committee
- But, SAD (Amritsar), All-India SAD and AISSF (Peermohammed) are out of the Morcha
Was not Longowal shot because he betrayed (gadari) the Sikhs, Did Sant Bhrindwale not say be beware of Ravi Inder Singh (SAD 1920) , has not Sarna (SAD Delhi), given siropa's to Congress leaders who openly supported Operation Bluestar etc.
Only Mann has not compromised himself.
Moral of this is that you sometimes have to sleep with your enemies to achieve the larger goal.
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WJKK WJKF
WHAT I REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND IS WHY ARE YOU STILL DEBATING OVER KHALISTAN NOT BEING DEFINITE.
HAVE YOU SEEN THE VIDEO I POSTED, JUST FOR THE BENEFIT OF OTHERS I WILL POST IT AGAIN....
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=pRHwQHEuvtw
NOW....
YOU SEE AT ABOUT 1.23 SANT JI SAYS SOMETHING VERY AMAZING....
SANT BABA JARNAIL SINGH JI KHALSA BHINDRANWALE SAYS "WITH THE SUPPORT OF GURU JI WE WISH TO LIVE FREE"
SANT JI IS AT ONE WITH AKAAL PURAKH WAHEGURU, SO THEY KNEW EVERYTHING. THEY ARE FAULTLESS.
WE NEED TO ACCEPT THAT KHALISTAN IS COMING, SANT JI ALSO IN ANOTHER SPEECH WHICH I WILL TRY AND UPLOAD LATER ON, SAYS THAT WHEN THE INDIAN ARMY INVADE SRI HARMANDIR SAHIB, THE FOUNDATION OF KHALISTAN WILL BE LAID...
WJKK WJKF...
When quoting Sant Ji, we tend to pick and choose. Sant ji also said that he would never leave the Darbar Sahib and abandon the Sikhs, he would give Shaheedi for the panth, to awaken them. He said that if Baba Deep Singh ji came to Darbar Sahib to give Shahadat, how can he as mukhi of the same Taksal, leave Darbar Sahib and therefor not give Shahadat.
Everybody has a right to have an opinion, but we ned to be true to ourselves and not quote Sant Ji.
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We attack the Badals and the SGPC, for being in their pocket and their aqllinace with BJP, however we never question the fact that, howcome Shaeed Sant Bhrindwales photo is in the Sikh Gallery in Darbar Sahib.
Sarna we attack, but do not recognise that he has been at the forefront of campigning for Prof. Bhullar.
My point give credit where its due and attack where neccessary.
We did have an 'Armed campaign-Arms struggle'-did it achieve what we wanted / Why was it crushed, what were its weaknesses? We need to study these and answer these questions.
We are going through a phase in history, where democracy and political campigning is the accepted way forward-Al queda failed with violence, but mass demonstrations won.
As Daljit Singh Bittu, stated, ''we have changed from an Armed struggle to adopt and pursue a political campign for Independance. however if the need arises we will not fail up to take up the aremd struggle again'
Thats what you call a political statement from a Khalistani Statesman.
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And what makes this even more laughably tragic is that the tw** who hosts the Sikh Youth Discussion show on the Sikh Channel has said the Panth will pay for ANY charges that the police put upon these vandals.
Yeah you heard me right...Guru ji's Panth will pay the charges for those who vandalised Guru ji's property!!
What a plonker!!
Know that was stupid, openly supporting those that broke the Law and on TV !!!!!
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The guys who acted violently have done the panth a great disservice and undone alot of the hard work that goes into making the satkar campaign credable and legit, and bridging the gap between amritdhari and sehajdhari Sikhs and with the wider community including the indiginous white population and also completely wrecks the relationship with the police. They are completely selfish and happy to persue their demands at whatever cost and with no regard to the consquences or damage that they do to either themselves or the wider community. They are highly irresponsible.
As a note. During the Jaito morchas against the British and Singh Sabha reform protests, Sikhs took a pledge of non-violence and stuck to it despite extreme provocation from the British, which resulted in beatings, shootings and death, however, they did not flinch and did not behave violently. It is a shame that our protests have become highjacked by irresponsible nutters who want to cause trouble and have no self control.
Do you really think that you would have received this result from a peacefull demonstration, come on. What could have happened is that no violence would have occured and we would then look at a protest every week, until a resolution, could we have kept this up is the question.
I agree the violence was not good and should not have happened, but ultimatley the committee are responsible for this. Those injured need to ask, why were they, the committee, defiant.
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If the objective of the protest was to peacefully protest by doing simran and kirtan and hence by its spirtual power to stop the dudley committee doing beadbi, then Satkar failed.
What made the the committee change its mind, was the reaction to there provacation, the forceful methods used. If it truly was to be a peacful protest then we all should have just ignored the provocation and instead continued doing simran.
In reality any protest relying on doing Kirtan and simran, would not have worked as we are not in the state of Chardi Kala and 'nam kamia'. How can we really just chant Gurbani, whilst beadbi is being committed, is this what the Guru teaches us?
Satkar need to learn from this incident and re-evaluate its strategy for overcoming beadbi. In its statement, they say that a minority were involved in disturbances, really.
The main course of violence and those responsible for this, were the Dudley committee, especially the President and Trustees, for allowing people to use there premises to provocate and intimidate a peacful protest, as well as the heavy handiness of the police, which resulted in retaliation and a violent reaction.
Learn from this and keep up the good work Satkar.
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When the media is invited or attends, it is up to the Organisers of the demonstration to speak to the media and decide what is filmed and what is not. The organisers could have easily stopped the crew from filming, as can be seen on a number of occasions in the mainstream media, where camers are blocked. The organiser should have spoken or briefed the media and then followed up. So although the media is to blame, by not showing any responsibility, so are the organisers. Lets hope that the Satkar campaign learn from this incident and move forward.
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Out of the 2 evils, who is the lesser. It has to be the Akali Dal and Badal lot.
Could we seriously support a Party, that still has in its membership and in senior positions those that were responsible for the November 84 Massacres. If the Congress party wants the support of Sikhs, they need to apologise for 1984 and onwards and then kick out those members that have been identified as leading the massacres from there party, to start with.
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What happened to the protest, that was mentioned in an ealier post?
They managed once again to spread there bakwas, even if there is one person listening to it, it is still not acceptable.
Once thing I can't seem to understand is when I visit the UK I always see the son's of the Khlasa panth is a teyaar burthyaar roop, in a chardi Kala, in full bana, with the glorious shashtar of the Khlasa, but what strikes me is these chumcheh so called tiger group are free to do as they please.
Wearing a bana comes with resposibility, so why haven't these nindaks been sorted out yet.
Asee Sareh Gallah deh Sikh ha... nothing more.
These idiots will soon be preaching at all the Gurdwaras and before you know it they will have a following bigger than you think, and thusi sareh dekho, they will stop all Siri Dasam Granth activities, and there is nothing you can do about it.
It's best to rid of pest whilst they are few, otherwise they multiply and become a problem on a later date.
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Under the Equality
My understanding is that under the new Equality Act 2010 and the Human Rights Act 1998, we are protected under Religious and ethnic discrmination. However, removal of Kirpan could be justified under Health and Safety and for the protection of others.
Wearing a Kirpan, loosley that can fall out during a ride, could severley injure someone. So we would have to agree that if you are wearing a Kirpan that could fall out, just like a dastar could fall off, it is sensible not to go on that ride. wearing a Kirpan that is visible, could have a 'frightening effect' on some young child, who had never seen a Sikh or know anything about the Kirpan.
Sensible approach, would be to conceal the Kirpan and be careful of what rides you go on. If stopped by security, inisit that you have aright to wear the Kirpan and it is not an offensive weapon but an article of faith, as recognised by the Ofensive Weapons Act 1996. However due to health and safety issues, you will not go on the rides, that may result in the Kirpan falling out, or demonstrate that it is securley wrapped and cannot fall out. Always wear under your clothes.
Sometimes we have to make a choice, of having fun or sticking to our core principles at the expense of cheap thrills on rides.
Was forwarded the e-mail below, by a collegue. Suggest you download the guidance and take with you in any future meetings with the Park.
Please find attached 'Guidance on the wearing of Sikh articles of Faith' produced by the Equality and Human Rights Commission.
The BSF had asked the Commission to revise an existing out of date document previously issued by the Commission for Racial Equality, which was quite wrong in a number of places. Many British Sikh organisations came together to get this document produced and issued by the Equality and Human Rights Commission. Well done to them all, and to officials at the Commission as well.
British Sikh Federation
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Under the Equality
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Overall okay, for a BBC production. However it showed the basics, so impression that Sikhs are not really that sophisticated.
On one hand the Guru Granth Sahib was said to be the Guru for the Sikhs and on the other hand it was described as a 'book'. So the meassge was that the Sikhs were worshipping a 'book'.
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Would be a great test, if they did refuse and then also refused therefore to Travel.
Then if an Indian citizen contact the Indian Embassy to arrange for their travel back to their country, without being forced to take off their Dastar. Likewise if a British Citizen, then contacting the British Embassy. As passport holders, we have the right to be protected by our respective countries.
I missed the programme so apologies if this was addressed on the show.
Did the jatha of Singhs refuse to remove their Dastaars?
What can the Italian authorties do if you refuse to remove your Dastaar, in other words how far are the Italian authorties allowed to go?
There seems to be many Singhs willing to eventually remove their Dastaars at the search stage but has any Singh actually stood their ground and refused point blank?
My point is, are we (Sikhs) giving in too easily to these "forced" or "ordered" removals? Should we be refusing altogether!
Perhaps I'm being presumptuous, but if one of us makes the stand and others may follow.
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I am protesting these elections where all CHORS are up against each other. I am already distributing leaflets and urging people NOT to participate in this DODGY process whereby people elected will misuse their status and power and haver done that in the past.
We (alongwith my sikh brothers) want to ask all the parties to give-up their positions and instead ask voluntary action group to be formed with all responsible intelligent educated and honest individuals. There can a set criteria for the people who want to join in those action groups e.g. CRB clearance, good education etc.
I will be protesting outside the polling area. Please join me if you want to show your support.
Please wake up from your day-dreaming and come back to reality. Who decides the voluntary groups make up, the Sangat ??. Who decides who is in the management committee-the sangat, by voting.
If you want to make a change, then you have to be involved in the system, or get enough support (sangat power) to change the system.
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They are losed Singh, when the mind is deluded by fame and false backbones (Dal Khalsa) thats what happens. The Khalsa Panth sees through the political games, but some individuals have not done enough thinking and are lost, so they resort to raising their voice and shaking their fist to be heard.
Why you calling Santji a Sant, when you don't even respect his word?
Actually this is being choosy and picki over what words to respect. Did not Sant ji say the following:
2) Sant Ji saying he will sacrifice his life but not leave the morcha (go to 8:24 minutes)
3) Sant Ji saying that someone advised him to go to Pakistan, but he refused saying that Baba Deep Singh Ji came to Amritsar from DamDama Sahib and I should leave here and go to Pakistan.......NEVER ! The guy said "we need you" to which Sant Ji replied "I need to make a sacrifice" (go to 3:39 minutes)
http://www.youtube.c...n_order&list=UL
If yes, by denying that he has become Shaheed, are we not disrespecting Sant ji's words as above, i.e. he ran away and did not sacrifice his life.
Saying Sant ji is shaheed is not dis-respecting Baba Taker Singh ji.
By holding a smadam for the chardi kala of sant ji and his return is this also not dividing the panth.
We should respect each others views.
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Just a thought maybe the organisors had professionals design the flyers etc. So that would entail copywriters who just try too promote an event. Maybe ideas were given from the organisers but NON_SIKHS wrote the actual stuff?
Also if a young lad his dad, grandad all uncles, aunties on both sides are amritdhari theres a high chance of him wanting to learn of sikhi and partcipate, even if sometimes its by force not choice.
Now theres another young lad proper punjabi, well as much as he can be being born here bhachara. Only goes to gurdwara for weddings, NOW he seen that flyer well known artists are performing at the gurdwara, so he wants to attend the gurdwara. Even if that one performance by bhangra singers / prodcuers is the catalyst for even one person wanting to learn more is that not an achievement?
I mean youngsters who have guidance and have been bought up attending gurdware regularly there already there, i feel these eventsget the sort of youngster to attend gurdware who don't even know where they are, if even one of the youngsters is inspired well i think thats a success.
BTW every human being has the right too recite gurbani and praise waheguru. I already in previous posts highlighted the muslim decendents of Bhai Mardana ji doing kirtan in gurdware so you do not have too have taken amrit to recite gurbani. Everyone has the right to praise waheguru, as long as you are reciting NAAM.
Also It don't send mixed messages, it shows that ALL people praise and worship WAHEGURU. What it shows is all love and acknowledge waheguru. Wherever they are on their journey.
After 1984, there were resolutions passed in most Gurdwaras, which are still enforced in a lot of the Gurdwaras, that those people that perform in clubs etc, will not be allowed on the Gurdwars stage. This was needed especially for weddings, where such guests where then asked to sing at the Gurdwara. It's a pity that the yoputh of today never mind keeping to this resolution, have in fact broken it themselves.
Aplogies not all youths but some.
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im going for x ray soon and been told will need to remove anything metal so sri sahib kara will have to removed BUT what if i dont ?
anyone every done a xray with out re moving these Kakkars?
please help ?
Suggest you read the guidance below, maybe print off and take with you.
The Commission has now launched guidance on the wearing of Sikh articles of faith in public spaces. The guidance can be found at the following link: http://www.equalityh...neral-guidance/
The Commission is the Equality and Human Rights Commission. Suggest people download the PDF version.
The link is:
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Came across this, it is good guidance. There are a number of Sikh organisations mentioned at the end of the guidance who helpled.
The Commission has now launched guidance on the wearing of Sikh articles of faith in public spaces. The guidance can be found at the following link:
The Commission is the Equality and Human Rights Commission. Suggest people download the PDF version.
The link is:
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I have to agree with sarabha punjab on this one, i dont know about how long some of the forum members have been around but iv been around long enough to know there are some dodgy characters on this council
With some of their track records i wouldnt be surprised if there are a few hidden agendas under the table
and before anyone slams me for "not giving them a chance" or saying "why dont you do something yourself" just be cautious about these people, they're alot smarter than you think
Could you please expand on the 'dodgy characters' ? Without knowing what these people have done or are capable of doing to damage the Panth, what is the use of making such a statement.
I would honestly like to know.
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Ha! I think they've stitched themselves up on this one. You're right - it does say Sikh culture. I think the people who wrote these terms probably thought nobody was going to be able to differentiate between Sikh and Punjabi culture - or nobody cared. I mean is there such a thing as 'Sikh culture'? Shouldn't it be 'Sikh faith'?
This is the way to challenge these people, by using there own rules and guidlines they have created within their constitution. Remember evrything in the constitution has to align with Gurmat and Sikhi principles as they are registred as a Sikh place of worship.
Would encourage the Satkat Committee to also adopt this line as well as others.
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why when people state genuine concerns do we gang up and issue threats to silence them rather than addressing the problems?
many of those who don't support this new council have taken active roles in these "organisations", for many years.
Guru Ji would probably advocate keeping cauldrons of burning hot oil ready for those who abuse their responsibilities.
someone called this "progress". do you think these people have achieved so much over 3 decades that we now need an entire BOARD OF JATHEDARS? are you kidding?!
i guess the blind follow the blind like sheep.
these self-proclaimed "leaders" who between them have collectively achieved sod all over the last 3 decades, if you still want to blindly follow them and give them even more influence then arent you equally to blame for the mess that will come in the next generation?
you should be asking your "leaders" what they have achieved with all the manpower and donations they've had? where did it all go?
these guys have been at the forefront of creating splits in our community in terms of caste, meat/sharaab, politics, links to punjab parties, rehit, taking stances against banis, supporting darshan lal and so on.
do you think the government is stupid? they want to avoid giving us our rights at ANY cost. the only way to get our rights is by connecting to our grassroots - uniting monay and amritdhari, encouraging them to become stronger in sikhi & from that build strongly founded organisations.
this is the opposite, a council very loosely connected to religious institutions mismanaged by thugs and gangsters. you are bringing politics into faith not faith into politics, the complete OPPOSITE of what our Gurus did. this is why we remain so divided.
our media channels, our religious institutions and our new council are all run by people who are not only far from sikhi but actively only interested in how to make money from the faith and how to promote themselves.
if any of this is not true, why not ask each affiliate member to show how many baniaan they have bothered to memorise?
how many of your affiliates dish out bottles of alcohol to get elected? or use violence to maintain a vice-grip on their kursia? even mr bal at sikh channel loves them so long as they encourage people to subscribe, provide funds and give access to record events. they all siphon off the top like they do with building projects. this is not sikhee its called RACKETEERING.
so many people are put off sikhee because of these people. people from all communities see Guru Ji as inspirational but when they see so many of our institutions and organisations led by these lowlifes, training up and moulding generations in their own image rather than GuruJi's its disgraceful.
rather than get rid of the weeds, this gives them more publicity & entrenches their tentacles further into our community. i dont want to see other youngsters get duped by these old fogeys who are desperate for the limelight, jathedaris and siropas.
those youngsters who wish to do sewa may be better off helping in GuruGhars or starting small, local groups with simple aims and achieve them. leave these lot to it.
So much venom, anger and accusations, painting and tarnishing all Sikh Gurdwaras, Institutions, organisations with the same brush of corruption, racketeering etc. No wonder there is no leadership or direction from some of our youth and the mis-trust between some of them and the elder generation.
I am rinded of the quote ' from acorns to big trees', it would be great for youngsters to do as ammrita states, but do not criticise negativley about others, work on your strengths and lead by example.
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This should be an internal issue for the Sikhs, not one to be played in the Media. The principle at stake here is a fundamental one, in that Money collected at the Gurdwara from the Sangat via the Golak, cannot be used for anti-Gurmat purposes. That's it, there should be no discussion on this in the Media. Otherwies we will get into a debate about moderate and fundamental Sikhs, the latter will then be portrayed as 'Taliban style' Sikhs, which in essence would mean most Gursikhs.
So please do not comment or take to mainstream media, its an internal issue (one for all Sikh media).
Ask the question, would the BBC, discuss why women are not allowed to pray alongside men, in their respective Mosques and should Mandirs and Mosques allow Alcohol.
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Sgpc Elections Set For September 18
in WHAT'S HAPPENING?
Posted
Sometimes you have to play the political game to get into a position, where you can influence decisons being taken. Badal tried to play the panthic thinking Sikhs, by creating a 'rift' between them. However what has happened is that you have Panthic thinking individuls, standing for the SGPC elections from all sides, e.g. Sant Hari Singh ji, Sant Sukhjain- with Akali Dal support, then you have Simranjeet Singh ji and his collegues, and then the Khalsa Action committee Singhs with Paramjit Singh Sarna.
My point, forget about who they are aligninig with, if they are panthic thniking, get your relatives in India to vote for them. This is the first time we have this opportunity to get Panthgic thinking Singhs into the SGPC.