punjab5

More please

To me Baba Taker Singh was an ideal Khalsa. However my plea to those that are still promoting that Sant ji is in Chardi Kala, or arguing against those that say he is not, are only encouraging them to do nidya of Baba ji, but are also making baba ji look like a 'laughing 'stock'.

Believe in what you want, but do not highlight and promote thus giving people the opportunity to have a go at 'baba ji'.

What is the agenda for the meeting after the lobby, i.e. who will be speaking etc. What is the objective of this meeting

Irrational comments like those mentioned at the start of this topic should not be made, without knowing any facts.

It is a known fact that Organisations like the ISYF AND Babbar Khalsa, which had a large support base Internationally, were banned by a number of Countries, because of their support for the Khalistan movement, read into these comments, l do not have to make the obvious statement.

International support is vital, to creating or restoring soverengity for a nation.

Overall, i think the programme was good. However, it seemed to drag on. I think any videos shown need to be short and to the point, as the concentartion span of people is not so long.

There are a number of people who are are audience for Trafalgar square and we need to try and cater for them all:

Non Sikhs - Videos and shorter speeches in English

Our Younger Generation - Speeches in English

Majority of Sangat from the Gurdwaras - Speeches in Punjabi along with either Dhadi or Kavishri.

Suggest the organisers try and get this mix 'right'.

Hyde Park, should only be a gathering point for the rally, with maybe speeches from Gurdwara reps and maybe Dhadi etc, whilst waiting for the start of the rally.

Have any MP's been invited and which one's have confirmed there attendance ?

Will Sikh Federation be taking the lead at Trafalgar square and who are the speakers for that part of the rally ?

It would be good to get some professional Amritdahri Sikhs involved as role Models, i.e. Sikhs holding senior postions in the Government, other Public and Voluntary Organisations, in Industry, Lawyers, Media etc.

As role models, it would illustrate that you do not have to compromise your Sikhi to get to a senior post.

name and shame !!!

Those of you that go to this Gurdwara, need to have a read up of the Constitution. If the Constitution, states that the Main objective of the Gurdwara is to promote the teaching of the Sikh Religion (which should be the case) and if using the Gurdwara premises for anything other than what is written in the Constitution, is not allowed, then if the Gurdwara is a registred charity with the Charities Commission, the management committe is in breach of that constitution.

Are the 17 in Dubai or Sharjah. If the latter, this is part of the UAE, as is Dubai (i.e. not part of Dubai but independant).

If in Sharjah, this is ruled by Sheikh Dr Sultan bin Muhammad Al Qasimi of the Supreme Council of the UAE and Sheikh of Sharjah.

Letters or e-mails should be sent to the Sheikh. This shows Lack of research, but focus on getting 'balle balla''

Protest was good in that it got the Sikh togther, but campaigns have to based on actual facts and reserach done, so that a campaign strategy can be developed. Also one that is not in isolation to other campiagns for the same cause, i.e. In India for the 17 so that resources are pooled togther and coherent messages are communicated to the Media and other stakeholders.

Why are Sikh protesting outside number 10 downing street, surley the demo should be outsdide the Dubai/united emirates embassy, or the Indian Embassy, as this would more impact. Agree a letter or petition should be given to the UK Government. My understanding is that a letter ahs been sent to the Foreign Office and a reply received, stating that as they are Indian Nationals, it is up to the Indian and Dubai Governments, as they were involved in activites to do with 'Liquor', which is banned in the Muslim states.

Unfortunatley, with a new Government, this demo, will show how ignorant the Sikhs are of political (especially current) and Legal issues, i.e. role of Biritish Government. Remember the rich Arabs probably owe half of London, will the Bristih Government upset them in favour of Human Rights overt Investment, especially involving non UK Nationals.

Need to focus on Human Rights and Civil Liberties Organisations and the UN, as well as the UNHRC.

Why is the Sikh Channel organising this demo, surley there role is to highlight these issues in the media, for other to take action.

If I had a penny for each time someone has a counter issue not attend a specific rally, protest, samagam, kirtan darbar, I'd be a pretty rich bloke now.

The way I see it...Via the medium of the Sikh Channel, around 20 national Gurdwara committees have at long last got their collective act together and have taken some responsibility in arranging their local sangat to turn up to a rally on a national scale..

If it's being driven by the Sikh channel then who cares, as long as something gels these prabhandaks together and gets them to get their big backsides off their committee office kursiya..

With regards to these 17 young men...When I once met Bhai Sahib Balbir Singh Bains who was falsely imprisoned in India for several years, he told me that when you are at rock bottom in prison with very little hope and you hear that a group of Sikhs in another country held a rally for you it gives you hope..

This gathering may be unsuccessful, as you seem to have convinced yourself it will be, but those families in India will feel something, they will not feel isolated, they will feel a glimmer of hope..The sangat attending will feel united and inspired to stand up as a kaum for other issues....

We can just stay at home, make ourselves out to be panthic but simply end up spending the Sunday afternoon watching the Eastenders omnibus..or we can join the rest of the sangat and start a new dynamic where Sikhs feel inspired to travel 100's of miles to stand up for the human rights of others..let's not knock it just because each on of us was not consulted during the organisation stages.

So lets make it more of an impact, by demonstrating outside the Dubal Embassy, as the media in Dubai, may pick this up, rasiing more awarness and the message will get back to those arrested.

If outside of Number 10, THEN WHY NOT CAMPAIGN FOR ABOLISHING THE DEATH PENALTY FOR PROFESSOR D.S. BHULLAR, JAGTAR SINGH HAWARA AND OTHER SIKHS.

Just saying we need to think things through, not just get emotional, or is this because its a 'Muslim Country'.

Good luck with the Demo.

Why are Sikh protesting outside number 10 downing street, surley the demo should be outsdide the Dubai/united emirates embassy, or the Indian Embassy, as this would more impact. Agree a letter or petition should be given to the UK Government. My understanding is that a letter ahs been sent to the Foreign Office and a reply received, stating that as they are Indian Nationals, it is up to the Indian and Dubai Governments, as they were involved in activites to do with 'Liquor', which is banned in the Muslim states.

Unfortunatley, with a new Government, this demo, will show how ignorant the Sikhs are of political (especially current) and Legal issues, i.e. role of Biritish Government. Remember the rich Arabs probably owe half of London, will the Bristih Government upset them in favour of Human Rights overt Investment, especially involving non UK Nationals.

Need to focus on Human Rights and Civil Liberties Organisations and the UN, as well as the UNHRC.

Why is the Sikh Channel organising this demo, surley there role is to highlight these issues in the media, for other to take action.

Who are you? Akaal Takht Jathedar? Stop moaning, no ones going to hear you cry and throw your bottle out the pram...

The Barsi will happening, its going to happen and its starting as I type this reply. No one will dare go to the Barsi and question it, so there's no point moaning on here. If you have a problem you know what to do.

I am only letting people know the full details of Santa Singh, to stop the barsi or not, is not something i raised.

The question l posed was, is this person an ideal role model for the Sikh Youth, i.e. one that turned his 'back' on the Panth in 1984/85.

It is a shame that some of our youngsters are honouring a person who stabbed the Panth in the back. When all the Sikh Panth had agreed that they did not want the GOI, to re-build the Akal Takht, as this would be an insult to all thoses Sikhs who laid there lives defending it gainst them.

The GOI, bought SANTA Singh and his band of Nihangs, to do the dirty work for them, with money from GOI. The panth did not accept this Sarkari built Akal Takht and demolished it , rebuilding it themselves.

To those honouring Santa Singh, do you really think that this person is a role model for Sikh???

To have a programme, to honor the memory of Santa Singh, is a kick in the teeth to Sant Bhrindawale and all those that sacrifised there lives with him for the panth.

He might have been forgiven by the Akal Tahkt, but that is no reason to glorify him.

Where were the majority of the Nihangs, when darabar sahib and the akal takht along with all the other gurdwaras were being attacked ?

Where were they, when our sisters and mothers were being harrased and raped ?

The youth are to easily brainwashed.

''I am pro-Jasbir Singh Parmar, as I am supporting him as a Sikh and his views regarding the Sikh Nation''

I do not know Jasbir Singh, so this post is not about him personally, but about supporting Sikh principles and issues.

Being a Sikh does not mean that the person will support Sikh issues or principles at all times, for example on the 'face ' of it, KPS Gill, is a Sikh and yet his views and actions are considred as unpanthic by many ( this does not realte to Jasbir, as mentioned at the start of my post).

To give a balanced view, the Labour Candidate and sitting MP, John Spellar, has supported the Sikhs in his tenure as a MP. Examples include:

*Campaigning for the release of KS Chahal and Raghbir Singh, when they were arrested and imprisioned, as well as Punjab Singh (In India), by signing eraly day motions, asking parliamentary questions and writing to the PM and relevant Ministers as well as speaking at rallies.

*Attending and speaking at Lobby days and the Hyde park rally on a number of occasions.

*Raising issues of Human Rights abuses in India, as member of both the Punjabi and Sikh All party parliamentary groups. As well as current issues like the arrest of Daljit Singh Bittu and the Ludihana incident.

*Speaking at adjournment debates on Sikh issues

*As minister for transport being instrumental in overturning a ban on the wearing of the Kirpan by Sikh workers at Heathrow Airport.

These are just some examples of his support, which i hope people will take into consideration, when deciding who to vote for.

I've been informed that its on Sunday 13th June this year

'Jagtar Singh Khalsa' on here should be able confirm whether thats correct

Do we know, who will be organising, i.e. Federation of Sikh Organisations (FSO, do they still exist), or Sikh Federation?

Does anyone know what the dates are for annual June 84- demo in Hyde Park and the rally at Trafalgar square that follows it, for this YEAR.

Everything is going exactly what Sant Hari Singh Ji Randhawa wale said in katha Neh Kalanak Avtar.

http://gurbaniupdesh...h+Kalank+Avtaar

So are we supposed to stay quite and doing nothing about this, becaues that is what is supposed to happen?

My understanding is that the teachings of our Guru's states that we should develop solutions to tackle such issues, not be pacifists.

The murder of Shaeed Bhai Harmander Singh Sandhu, was one of the turning points for the Khalistan Movement and the start of 'pra-maru jang' (internal -feud-killings). The Second Panthic Commitee, led by Dr Sohan Singh and Babbar Khalsa, claimed responsibility for his murder, which was carried out by KLF (panjawar), with the help of UK Sikhs. Daljit Singh Bittu, who was also a member of this panthic commitee, has already apologised for the internal killings and feud.

After the shaeedi of Bhai Sahib, the movement was totally divided and thus the downfall. The Government taking adavantage of the internal feuds, quickly killed the main Leadership of the armed struggle.

Before this juncture in the movement, Guru sahib guided us, but once we started killing our own brothers on the whim of lousy intelligence, no doubt instigated by the Indian intelligence, the movement went into a downhill whirl. Many freedom fighters, got dis-heartened and left the movement to fight on another day.

And now who is going to implement his/her own words said above in his/her own real/personal life?

Actually there is an ekta paltform/structure that exists for Panthic jathebandia's that are campiagning for Sikh Raj-Khalistan. This is the Federation of Sikh Organisations (FSO). The focus has been to work together on common issues to achieve this goal. Here we have the Various AKJ linked-organisations, i.e. former BK & Government in Exile (Gurmej -former jathedar BK), Dal Khalsa, SF (Taksal linked), Akali Dal - Mann, Khalistan Council.

Despite, a lot of people trying to breakup the FSO, it still exists and is channel for the leadership of these orgaisations to talk to each other. Will try and ask soemone who works with FSO, or is part of the FSO, for their comments and share with all at sikh sangat.

Totally agree with the statement below. Pathnic/Sikh Organisations can object as much as they like, however in the end, it will be up to the Gurdwara Committees to decide, what calendar to follow.

Panthic/Sikh Organisations should focus on getting justice for the Murder of Shaeed Darshan Singh and other's injured during the Ludihana Kand and other INJUSTICES being faced by the panth.

Condemning all efforts to effect changes in the Nanakshahi Calendar they said these were inspired and encouraged by Hindutva forces and the changes amounted to saffronization of the almanac that gave the Sikhs their unique identity.

As per a thread I posted a while ago ... our unique identity was given to us by Guru Gobind Singh Ji through our Unique guru, unique rehat, unique appearance etc. No calendar can create or uncreate an identity. Which single peole/race/community around the world is identified by its calendar? lol

I think its very unpanthic to say things like this, as the father of our panth gave us our uniqueness.

Shame on what is fast becoming our very very limited and small levels of intelligence. We argue and fight over the most ridiculous things. Were becoming a laughing stock.

It would be interesting to hear what advise was given by Inderjit Singh, he was one of the main Sikh advisors to this programme from the UK.

With regards to the BBC and Mandeep Bajwa, the bbc, were informed that some members of the Sikh community, were dissapointed with his selection, as he was not considered as being impartial.

Unfortunatley the Sikh Channel, is not being 'run' on a professional basis, but like most of our Gurdwaras, desi style'. This is a shame, as we have a number of professional Sikhs, who could support this channel, but are not approached in a professional manner.