GPS

Real story is entirely different. Sangat of Malaysia was to hold seminar on bani of Sri dasam Granth sahib about two months back. This so called tabloid in unison with a new outfit of kala afghana followers named global Sikh council did not want it to be held . The premise was that Sikhs should only follow SGGS Ji. They failed miserably as sangat did not agree and very successfully seminar was held. 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1014674345314586&id=100003160891085

Dhundha should learn these traits in his school and then start preaching. Why he is being opposed because he is a conman without knowledge of gurbani. Give me a break if someone says there is no soul and he is appreciated by a person like you. Do you believe there is no so

13 minutes ago, nehkeval said:

This is one of the most profound post I have read on this forum , kudos to veer Jassa for taking the high road of none else but Guru Granth Sahib itself. 

 

Everyone , das di hath hor ke benti - before taking sides and allowing yourself to be filled with such venomous hate (very unspiritual act btw , no matter what opinion the other side holds) read SGGS cover to cover (making sure you understand both shabdarth and bhavartha) , without any presumptions and then read Dasam Granth cover to cover and now you are in a position to form an opinion. 

 

IF you have any problems understanding a certain part of Guru Granth Sahib daas is here to help. 

 

"Aklee par ke bujhiye Akli Keejay daan "

 

 

 

Please reply to my query above. This thread is not about you or others like you. This is about heretic missionaries.

can you tell us how we should nam simran as Dhundha says nam simran is tota rutten.

dhundha says there is no soul , karma etc. is he right ? 

And do not divert it this thread to sggs vs dasam Granth. Start a new thread on that and you will be taught basics of dasam Granth sahib as I have read it in totality. Have you or have you not?

1 hour ago, muscleman said:

How can anyone with an average IQ expect from the members of the so called Sikh 'panth' to understand, appreciate, elaborate and then propagate Sikhism when 110% of the so called 'panth' has never been blessed with reading of normal finer works of art in their lives?!  If 110% of the SP has never appreciated the Pinjabi classics which is the responsibility of those that set out the national curriculum how can anyone in their right mind expect them to appreciate the SACRED literature enunciated by the SACRED Gurus?  Considering most Sikhs have never had the  blessing to glance at ordinary literature  written for ordinary people, so to access or experience a range of emotions or events, which will enable them to increase their understanding or appreciation of different topics and concepts!  

I am afraid the so called 'panth'has been deprived of literacy and numeracy so badly, that it is impossible for anyone to relate to matters from someone else's point of view, which in turn has hindered the panth's ability to feel appreciation for the divine literature of the 10th King.  

The Bani of the 10th King, if read with utmost sincerity enables us to develop the most humane of  emotions known as EMPATHY!  Without this noble and virtuous quality no one with two legs, two arms and two eyes should address himself as a member of the human race.  EMPATHY gives birth to higher, noble, refined, subtle and many more sacred and divine qualities in a human being.  No wonder, we only ever witness them in great Mahapurushs only nowadays!

If one is still questioning then one should not be questioning in public where the Guru's Sangat has congregated to learn Sikheee!  Their questioning signifies their doubt in the Great Bani and the Hukams of the Most Divine Guru.  They are imparting their doubt, ignorance, disbelief and arrogance to the Guru roop Sangat.  It is a case of blind leading the blind and totally profane and sacriligious.  These doubting Thomases, fake preachers, should not be allowed to preach to the GRSangat till they have worked out their doubts and faith in the Guru in private.  

 

 

bani of 10th master is a deep treasure of spirituality, a guide how to lead a life avoiding pitfalls of immorality pervading this world and tell us how we should sacrifice for welfare of humanity.

only an insane devoid of compassion and humility will raise finger on such sacred writings. 

"Now in the above video posted he questioned Hemkunth Sahib with a quote from Guru Granth Sahib that which has a word to word meaning ke Paharan te sidh beth ke apna janam gawa rahe hai te guru Gobind Singh kiddan pahar te beth ke bhagti kar sakde hai. What would be its better reply to answer him based on Guru Granth sahib bani or shut him up and abuse him ?"

Response

jassa need to understand that in Guru Granth Sahib there is spiritualism. Dasam Granth sahib apart from spirituality has history and autobiographical parts. In Sikhism history and spiritualism go together. History is our body and bani is our soul.

Dhundha was a truck driver before he did two year course of missionary. He does not understand the difference . Had he he would not done comparison. What does he know whether guru sahib was there in physical form or in subtle form. 

Jassa, let us be specific instead of beating about bush. You wrote  

"

There is a video in this link.please see this to know conduct of such con self made parcharaks

http://www.punjabspectrum.co/misc/sarbjit-dhunda-gets-angry-inside-gurdwara/

9 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

This poster has been a member of this forum since June of 2006.  He has written 2438 post in a time period of ten years.  This shows he's been exposed to the information regarding dhunda and Panthpreet which he is asking for.  I don't buy this naive act for one Second.  Anyone who is inclined to find out about dhunda and Panthpreet can simply do a youtube search with the relevant terms.  Being a troll on this site has not helped this poster in the past.  Won't help him today either.  

And he claims to be a Nihung singh who are custodians of Bani of Dasam pita.What marayada he is talking about.This married has a shortened chapai sahib and Nihung sings and all sampardayas follow full chaupai sahib.

Jassa Ji in my view you should apprise yourself of Akal takhat maryada yourself and then ask this question. He violates it in deed and action 

Can someone enlighten why baba Ji joined nastik missionaries cult. He is following many of their dictates like not allowing sangat to gather for amawas and puniya. Broke from panth to be with missionaries to follow puréwal calendar. In a very recent katha he degraded respect for sarovars. Certainly that lowered his respect among Sikhs in USA .

When it comes to defend dasam pita bani baba Dhumma is in front line unlike other so called sants.

Dhumma is aligned with badal. But to call him Hindu is not right. He is the one who got shaheedi

Yadgar for bhindrewale. He is the one who got bikrami calendar restored. Thank him for getting this done.

His biggest blunder is that he joined nastik missionaries. See his speech above it is full of ego.

http://sikhism.about.com/od/history/a/Golden_Temple.htm

1699 to 1737 - Bhai Mani Singh is appointed curator of Harmandir Sahib by Guru Gobind Singh.

Bhai Maharaj Singh was not a frontline fighter. He manouvred to get the Sikhs to rebel against the british criminals and provided logistical support.

There is no instance of Bhai Mani Singh goiing to Sri Darbar Sahib in any period before Guru Sahib's passing. Logicaly after 1699, and some years before, the Sikhs were involved in wars, and preparations for war. Would Guru Sahib have sent Bhai Mani Singh there in these kinds of pressing conditions?

We know that in 1704 Bhai Mani Singh escorted 2 Mahals to Delhi and then made his way to Damdama Sahib in 1706.

Sri Darbar Sahib was only vacated by the meenas in the time of Baba Banda Bahudur, when they fled seeing his army.

I think somewhere along the line the OP has got confused over the date of the Saroop being 1698 and Bhai Mani Singhs taking charge at Sri Darbar Sahib.

Chatanga ji, marayada of Harmandir sahib was put in practice by bah mani singh ji in 1699 when he was sent by Guru Gobind singh ji after creation of khalsa.He did away with

Hindu practices there and baptized many sikh around countryside.

Please read two separate sources of reference

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhai_Mani_Singh

In 1699, after the Khalsa Panth was created with the famous Amrit ceremony and Rahit Maryada (Code of conduct of the Khalsa) was ordained, Guru Gobind Singh sent Bhai Mani Singh and five other Khalsas to Amritsar with instructions to take possession of the Harmandir Sahib. Bhai Mani Singh was appointed Granthi of the Harmandir Sahib and Jathedar of the Akal Takhat.^[23] Mani Singh thus became the third Granthi of the Harmandir Sahib, after Baba Buddha and Bhai Gurdas. Mani Singh did away with all the Hindu practices that had crept into the Harmandir and restored all the traditional ceremonies of the Khalsa which became a regular daily feature. Apart from Kirtan Singing of hymns from the Granth Sahib, Bhai Mani Singh used to do Katha (Exposition of Gurbani) which became a very popular daily feature. Rahit Maryada was propagated and arrangements were made for administering Pahul (initiation) to new converts to the Khalsa fold. As a result of Bhai Mani Singh's efforts, a large number of Jats (farmers) from northern Punjab were initiated as Khalsas, whose numbers increased day by day. Many of them, when they went back to their villages, persuaded others to take the pahul and become Khalsas. Periodically, Bhai Mani Singh used to go to Anandpur Sahib to pay homage to Guru Gobind Singh and keep him informed of the affairs and happenings at Amritsar.^[24]

^unquote

^{Earlier source posted was from book of Surain singh dhanoa ' Raj Karega Khalsa" Surain s dhanoa is a retired chief secretary of punjab.}

^{Minas had lost control Harmandir sahib in 1699 and code Bhai mani singh established in 1699 is in written form and is being followed till today.}

True, but why should the Nihangs have ignored the henious actions of the mahants in not allowing the low-castes in?

It was going on for years. There is no excuse. This is where the Nihangs laid the seed for their own removal from Sri Akal Takht Sahib.

Yes it does, and not it doesn't.

If there is something wrong in any Gurdwara, it is the duty of a Sikh to correct that wrong. The Nihangs were ignoring it, so someone had to step up.

The Singh Sabha were very wrong to alter/shorten the banis.

You may not be knowing the fact that singh sabha did write to British against allowing Maharaja dalip singh to claim Punjab.That was a treacherous act as they wrote a letter

to British siding with them.

Singh sabha did some good works but also did bad things as well.

Nihungs do not harbour casteism among them. I agree they should have sided with low caste sikhs as when one takes khande bate dee pahul caste system is eradicated.

But if you analyze the incident at Harmandir sahib it may be termed as symbolic protest.Singh sabha did nothing to eradicate caste system in Punjab villages as low caste sikhs were not even allowed to sit inside Gurudwaras.They used to have and still may be having langar sitting in a separate pangat in village guru ghars.I have seen it with my own eyes as late as late 1970s.

Personally I do not think there is any truth in Bhai Mani Singh doing parkash of Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth Sahib at Sri Akal Takht Sahib in 1698.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Amir_Singh

AMIR SINGH, an AKALI or Nihang who was a veteran soldier, joined the band of Bhai Maharaj Singh, leading a popular rebellion against the British in 1848-49. When the British deputy commissioner of Jalandhar, Vansittart, raided Maharaj Singh`s camp near Sham Chaurasi on the night of 2829 December 1849, Amir Singh attacked him with an axe but was himself wounded by a pistol shot fired by Vansittart. He died three days later

The Bir from Sri Akal Takht which matches the Patna Sahib bir both have the dates of Bikrami 1765 which would be around 1710 Ad.

A good question. the earliest recensions of Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth were sent to Patna Sahib and after Guru Sahib and the SIkhs left Panjab the Holy Granths went to Sri Hazur Sahib/Dakhan as well. There is a saroop of Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth that belonged to Bhai Daya Singh at Aurangabad today.

You need to read book of Randhir singh SGPC research scholar. Book name is "shabad moorat"". He has seen manuscript of Dasam granth in toshakhana of Harmandir sahib patna.

That beer is dated 1755 Bikram samvat.That comes to 1698 AD.

If it was 1765 as you mention then it comes to 1708 AD.

Some people tend to have a very romanticized view of the Nihangs in this era. During this time, the low-castes were not allowed to enter Sri Darbar Sahib. they had to do namaskar from the pauria and then go back. Why were the Nihangs as custodians allowing this to happen?

Then when the SS tried to help the low-castes go into Sri Darbar Sahib they all were beaten up. Where were the Nihangs at this time?

The SIngh Sabha, rightly took a very dim view of this and when the time came, they took over Sri Darbar Sahib complex and allowed the low-castes to have the same rights all other sikhs. The conduct of the Nihangs here was totally outside the remit of Gurmat. They laid the seeds for their own downfall here, and look at what repercussions it is having on the panth now.

No it's not. The first things the british criminal gang did was to nullify the sikhs capacity for war. As a result of this every Sikh had to give up their weapons, being allowed only a 6 inch kirpan. So those who didn't want to give up their weapons left Panjab to seek sanctuary at Sri Hazur Sahib. I wouldn't even say that the british criminals even knew about the dual role of the chalda vaheer.

And this brahmans and mahants phobia you have? You need to work on that.

Who did narainu mahant insist on giving the keys of Sri Nankana Sahib to?

Bhai Maharaj Singh was not a Nihang. He was if anything a Nirmala.

There was a dual control of Harmandir sahib complex. Akal takhat was under control of Nihung singhs whereas Darbar sahib was under control of mahants.

Not allowing karat parsed is condemnable.But that does not give right to jhabar gang to attack akal takhat and then become instrumental in shortening chaupai sahib at Harmandir sahib.

Of course Bhai maharaj singh was both a religious person heading Hothi mardan khalsa jathebandi and also a nihung fighter. He was fighter and revered in Punjab as a saint or messiah. He was caught from dear of Baba Bir Singh Nauragabadi.Need to read literature of that period especially role of Nihungs after Britsh annexation of Punjab.There is novel based on life of of baba Tega singh by Master Tara singh.He was one and some other nihungs who fled to Iran instead of laying down arms.Baba Hanuman singh Nihung was another famous Nihung who laid down life for sikh cause.

Nihungs guru maharaj dian ladlian faujan who did remarkable job in extending empire of sikhs were not reduced to collaborators of anti sikh mahants.They were charred kala sings and still are.