hkaurP

This one's pretty good too...

WJKK WJKF

On the blog it says that Guru Har Rai Ji had 8 wives? And Guru Hargobind Ji had 3 wives? Never knew that. A question just popped up as I was reading this. Did our Guru's allow polygamy? Or is this info wrong?

No means of disrespect at all

Bhul Chuk Maaf

PS. I also never knew that the 5 Piyare were avtaars of Bhagats. Is this info right? No means of disrespect to Das Ji that is working on the blog. I just wanted to confirm for myself.

3) Yesterday i saw place written Guru Ram Rai Ruhani Mission . Can u believe that Ram Rais are back .

Ram Rais? Who are they?

Veerji like I said good luck with your journey. I just stated what seemed right to me. I'm not going to say your wrong or anything, because you are right in your eyes and that's what works for you. At least, you aren't married or have kids that you are abandoning lol. So once again Good luck.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

WJKK WJKF

I agree with OhTwadi veerji. There is no greater seva than to serve your parents. You want to serve a Mahapursh so you can become a better Sikh, trust me, this will happen if you serve your parents and take care of them. There is no difference, according to me, between serving a Mahapursh and serving your old parents. So maybe lets try and become a good Son first, and you'll automatically see spiritual progress. My greatest example in life is of my mothers. She is the only one who works in my house, she's raising two children and taking care of her disabled husband, and her old mother and she has had Guru Ji's darshan multiple times. Not an Amritdhari or anything. But she's blessed. And as it is for the Sangat of Saints, the greatest Saint, greatest Sangat is of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

But if you have a supportive family, then good luck with your journey.

Bhull Chuk Maaf

LOL Experience is limited, so lets not base our whole conversation on experiences. Cases like your own family's case are very common not just in punjab, but in the entire country, where an elite member of the society covet another's personal property and I dont doubt that the government is doing whatever they can in order to bring justice. Like I said getting rid of corruption is a gradual process and it will take time.

If I am aware Ram rahim never had a register complaint before the Sikh attacks in official "language". There might've been rumors about him committing rape or murder, but hurting the sentiments of Sikhs was his first case. correct me if I am wrong.

Is that not narrow minded now when you focus solely on religious beliefs? Lets look at the history of Akal Takht Sahib and try to see the connection it had during the 17th century with the mughal empire. Now looking at a simple wikipedia article on your guru, it states in the beginning "From the very beginning he was the deadly enemy of Mughals." Even if it was me, I would have come up with a same institution in order to protect my property and my subjects. Please this guy was no guru, although a very smart man who had an ambition to built his own empire, but failed horribly. After Guru Nanak Dev jee, sikhism became just "another" religion and it was hijacked by all those who made fools out of people for the purpose of self-perpetuating. Anyway lets not get into this but capitalism and democracy are working fine so far in punjab, in fact punjab is better then it was ever before, looking at government statistics. LINK The only need in punjab is now to bring agrarian reform to boost farming techniques in order to produce more food. Heavy production of food is money and good investment for the state.

Read up on things if you want prosperity in Punjab. Get out of the religious mind and open yourself to other things if you really want to help punjab. Change is through education and education is POWER. I am assuming you are still young, may be in high school and that is alright. But dont hesitate to change your viewpoints when needed.

Excuse me? Wow the disscussion about Punjab was resonable but you have NO RIGHT to say anything wrong about our Guru. How can you have the audacity to come on a Sikh forum and badmouth our Guru? Now I fully understand your tactics. Spread hate against a religion on their website. Wow people like you have nothing other to do except make fools out of themselves and disrespect other religons. And he failed horribly? No Guru Ji did not fail horribly, the khalsa raj was intact until the British took over after Maharaja Ranjit Singh. So then How did Guru Hargobind Ji fail in his attempt? Read up on history before you come up on a forum and disrespect members and more importantly their Guru. You give respect to Guru Nanak Dev Ji but fail to understand that the light of Guru Nanak Dev Ji was in Guru Hargobind Ji. If you didn't want to get into this then maybe you shouldn't have mentioned it.

And for your statement about going off of personal experiences, personal experiences are the common man's thoughts. But no people like you will just go off of the Government records. Does anyone go out to listen to the common man and his problems? And when they are stated, it is hard to accept them.

This thread needs to be closed because it is just leading to Beadbi by an ignorant person ruining a normal conversation.

If you noticed, you are the only one arguing on this whole thread for stupid reasons.

I actually checked on other websites like SriGranth.org and SearchGurbani.com and it still says "Thm."

Yes, I've lived and studied in jalandhar for almost 7 years. I also visit punjab every other year with my father. The past means nothing and although the state system might be corrupted but in lesser degree when compared to the past. My cousin goes to panjab university, chandigarh studying law and I can assure you that his background is not of elite class, yet he has been receiving the same attention as anyone else so far. When I say, the state knows best, what I mean is the elected government which can be re-elected therefore eliminating corruption gradually. Money and your faculties are and should be the major factor in determining your status or position in a society. No one wants this, but I wasn't the one asking for a capitalist economy tagged along with democracy.

Are you kidding me? Any minor incident that the Sikh community or any community in Punjab feels has hurt their cultural or religious sentiments, first thing they do is take it to the streets. Vandalizing public property and ingraining fear into rest of the population who are trying to live in peace. I can count several events on my finger tips, such as the recent death of the Baba in austria and the dalit community took it to the streets, and the various incidents related to baba raamrahim. How could people come to such viciousness? asking for justice and taking to the streets is two different acts which produces two different scenarios. justice is through legal matters(surely there are circumstances when one needs to begin a revolution), like a civilized society does, you know in the foreign countries you, me and others live in.

Sorry, I don't mean to attack you personally but were you joking with that statement? Have you not studied the history of punjab, the history of India, the history of all south asia. There is no way on earth that Sikhism created the ground punjab is on. It is a dream that religious folks tend to rely upon even in the United States(christians thinking America was created on the grounds of christianity, hahaha). I cant waste my time to give you history lessons, that is why we have books for cheap on abebooks.com or simply goto a local university and sit through lectures and then maybe, just maybe you might learn something about the history of Punjab or India matter of fact.

Well I am also talking from experience and not just making things up. I dont want to reveal personal info but right now, my whole family, grandparents are fighting cases for their property which has been taken from them by a rich judge through fraud. If the government really cares for the properties and liberties of the citizens then the corrupt people on high posts with money won't be harrassing innocent public. This man needs to be taken out of office but no one is helping them and its been years. And I am pretty sure my family is not the only one who has to struggle with their properties.

Religion being brought down to streets? Ram Rahim is your example? He is nothing but a government puppet. This is another example of corruption and power. This man has had many cases on him, murder, rape etc. but he always gets out scot free. Why? Because he has power in the Government.

And when I say that religion and state cannot be seperated is by focusing solely on religious beliefs. The Akal Takht Sahib was created by our Guru Ji to put Miri and Piri together. A form of organized government for the Sikhs. "Raj Bina Nahin Dharam Chale Hain, Dharam Bina Sabh Dalle Malle Hain" even Guru Gobind Singh Ji has linked government with religion. I have no means of hurting anyone's sentiments but looking at how democracy is in Punjab, it clearly isn't working. Not just Punjab, all over India. But then again, if Government and Religion gets mixed in the existence of wrong people, it may just turn into Taliban rule. So it goes both ways.

Anyways what I'm trying to say is that you can't say that the Government in Punjab is not corrupt at all and that its not messing with the common man.

But then again, I am just a foolish Sikh, I might not have my facts right but I am just speaking solely on personal experiences.

Oh and I personally don't believe that religion is being mixed with politics, its politics, bringing religion into their campaigns etc. and exploiting it to meet their own needs. If religion had controlled politics, then Punjab would have been waay different.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

To make any progress the state knows what is best for the citizens because they have various intelligent economics and political scientists working for them, whereas religious goons are amplifying the problems by blocking roads and doing other foolish things. I am not saying that Sikhs should have no voice, but they need to know that the state is in power not a religious group. Its a democracy, not a theocracy. Whether Sikhs are the majority does not mean they can do whatever they consider right and suppress the rest of the population with their so called "religious duties". So if state has a problem with Sikhs, then the state has a problem with Sikhs, not with Punjab. These are two independent entities separable from each other, but connected only with a historical incorporeality.

Have you ever lived in Punjab? The State knows whats right? The same leaders responsible for killing/ruining lives of many innocent people? And Im not talking about 84, I am talking about now. Money is power and the state does nothing to protect the liberties of the middle and low class. Its all corrupted. Who ever has money to spend recieves all of the facilities. I know this for myself because my family members have been through this.

And you should tell me when and where religious goons have blocked roads and cause problems? Back up your statements. So according to you, no one should have the right to ask for justice because the state is in power?

Oh and BTW you can't seperate Sikhism from Punjab because Sikhism created the ground Punjab is on. Read up your history on Khalsa Raaj.

For the not understanding Gurbani part, maybe the gurdwara should put in some money for a solution. For example, all you need is one laptop with Gurbani software and a screen. Try suggesting that.

4. One Side Guru Gobind singh ji Sache Patshah wanted to Kill Aurangzeb and Eliminate Moguls from Punjab. Guru Gobind singh ji went to Nanded and Ordered Baba Banda Bahadur to Eliminate the Raaj of Moguls from Punjab and Delhi. And On other side Guru Gobind singh ji gave Raj Tilak to Shah Jahan(Son of Auranzeb) and Shahjahan told Guruji,' Banda Bahadur is Creating Disaster for Moguls'. Guruji Replied to Shahjahan,' Donot Worry. Ohhda Kam Hojayega' and Sikh History is the Evidence that How Baba Banda Bahadur was Killed because He didnot |Follow 3 Khaas bachans of Guruji.

Uhmm Shah Jahan was Auranzeb's father. Auranzeb's son was Bahadur Shah.

Waheguru... this brought tears to my eyes.

Thank you veerji for bringing up all of these posts.

Ok thanks for some feedback. All I got was negative comments.

Wow!! Still no answers to the questions?

edit.

WJKK WJKF Veerji

ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੩ ॥ ਮਾਣਸੁ ਭਰਿਆ ਆਣਿਆ ਮਾਣਸੁ ਭਰਿਆ ਆਇ ॥

ਜਿਤੁ ਪੀਤੈ ਮਤਿ ਦੂਰਿ ਹੋਇ ਬਰਲੁ ਪਵੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਇ ॥ ਆਪਣਾ ਪਰਾਇਆ ਨ ਪਛਾਣਈ ਖਸਮਹੁ ਧਕੇ ਖਾਇ ॥

ਜਿਤੁ ਪੀਤੈ ਖਸਮੁ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਦਰਗਹ ਮਿਲੈ ਸਜਾਇ ॥ ਝੂਠਾ ਮਦੁ ਮੂਲਿ ਨ ਪੀਚਈ ਜੇ ਕਾ ਪਾਰਿ ਵਸਾਇ ॥

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਸਚੁ ਮਦੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਜਿਸੁ ਆਇ ॥ ਸਦਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕੈ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਹੈ ਮਹਲੀ ਪਾਵੈ ਥਾਉ ॥੧॥

salok ma 3. maanas bhariaa aaniaa maanas bhariaa aae.

jith peethai math dhoor hoe baral pavai vich aae. aapanaa paraaeiaa n pashhaanee khasamahu dhhakae khaae.

jith peethai khasam visarai dharageh milai sajaae. jhoot(h)aa madh mool n peechee jae kaa paar vasaae.

naanak nadharee sach madh paaeeai sathigur milai jis aae. sadhaa saahib kai ra(n)g rehai mehalee paavai thhaao.(1)

Salok, Third Mehla: One person brings a full bottle, and another fills his cup. Drinking wine, his intelligence departs, and madness enters his mind; he cannot distinguish between his own and others, and he is struck down by his Lord and Master. Drinking it, he forgets his Lord and Master, and he is punished in the Court of the Lord. Do not drink the false wine at all, if it is in your power. O Nanak, the True Guru comes and meets the mortal; by His Grace, one obtains the True Wine. He shall dwell forever in the Love of the Lord Master, and obtain a seat in the Mansion of His Presence. (1)

Ang 554

ਸੁਆਦ ਲੁਭਤ ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਰਸ ਪ੍ਰੇਰਿਓ ਮਦ ਰਸ ਲੈਤ ਬਿਕਾਰਿਓ ਰੇ ॥ ਕਰਮ ਭਾਗ ਸੰਤਨ ਸੰਗਾਨੇ ਕਾਸਟ ਲੋਹ ਉਧਾਰਿਓ ਰੇ ॥੩॥

Su▫āḏ lubẖaṯ inḏrī ras pareri▫o maḏ ras laiṯ bikāri▫o re. Karam bẖāg sanṯan sangāne kāsat loh uḏẖāri▫o re. (3)

Those who are deluded by sensual pleasures, who are tempted by sexual delights and enjoy wine are corrupt. But those who, through destiny and good karma, join the Society of the Saints, float over the ocean, like iron attached to wood.(3)

Ang 335

ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥ ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥>

kabeer bhaaNg maachhulee suraa paan jo jo paraanee khaaNhi. tirath barat naym kee-ay tay sabhai rasaatal jaaNhi. ॥233॥

Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ॥233॥

Ang 1377

Bhull Chuk Maaf

WJKK WJKF

I was reading from Sri Dasam Granth and I'm confused on a few tuks. These tuks are from the section where Guru Ji talks about the Kalki Avtaar.

ਏਕ ਧਰਮ ਪਰ ਪ੍ਰਜਾ ਨ ਚਲ ਹੈ ॥ ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਦੋਊ ਮਤ ਦਲ ਹੈ ॥ ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਮਤ ਘਰ ਘਰ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਏਕ ਪੈਂਡ ਚਲਹੈ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਈ ॥੧੭॥

Ek dharam par prajaa na chal hai|| Bed Kateb dooo mat dal hai || Bhinn bhinn mat ghar ghat hoi|| Ek paind chal-hai nahi koi||17||

The subjects will not follow only one religion, and there will be disobedience to both the scriptures of Hinduism and Semitic religion; various religions will be prevelant in various homes and none will follow the one and the same path.17. (Page 1136)

What does Guru Ji mean when he says the subjects will not follow only one religion? What is that one religion? And why isn't Sikhism mentioned?

ਪੜਿ ਹੈ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਭੂਲ ਪੁਰਾਨਾ ॥ ਕੋਊ ਨ ਪਕਰ ਹੈ ਪਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨਾ ॥ ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਜਵਨ ਕਰਿ ਲਹਿ ਹੈ ॥ ਤਾਕਹ ਗੋਬਰਾਗਨ ਮੋ ਦਹਿ ਹੈ ॥੧੩॥

Pad(i)hai koina bhool puraanaa|| Kooo na pakar hai paan Kuraanaa|| Bed Kateb javan kar(i) lah(i) hai|| Taakah goharaagad mo dah(i)||13||

No one will study Puranas even by mistake and will not catch the holy Quran in his hand; he, who will catch the Vedas and Katebs, he will be killed by burning him in the fire of cowdung.13. (Page 1136)

Is this a prophecy or is it figuratively written? Can someone please explain this tuk more?

ਹਿੰਦਵ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਤੁਰਕਾ ਰਹਿ ਹੈ ॥ ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਘਰ ਘਰ ਮਤਿ ਗਹਿ ਹੈ ॥ਏਕ ਏਕ ਕੇ ਪੰਥ ਨ ਚਲ ਹੈ ॥ ਏਕ ਏਕ ਕੀ ਬਾਤ ਉਥਲ ਹੈ ॥੭॥

Hindav koina Turkaa rah(i) bai|| Bhinn bhinn ghar ghar mat(i) gadh hoi|| Ek ek ke panth na chal bai|| Ek ek kibaat uthal bai||7||

There will neither be a true Hindu nor a true Muslim; there will be diverse in every home; on one will follow the established religious paths and will oppose the saying of each other.7. (Page 1136)

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਮਤ ਦੁਹੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਹਰਿ ਕਰ ॥ ਚਲਿ ਹੈ ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਮਤ ਘਰ ਘਰ ॥ ਏਕ ਏਕ ਕੇ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਨ ਗਹਿ ਹੈ ॥ ਏਕ ਏਕ ਕੇ ਸੰਗ ਨ ਰਹਿ ਹੈ ॥੧੧॥

Hindu Turak mat duhnoo prahar(i) kar|| Chal(i) bai bhinn bhinn mat ghar ghar|| Ek ek ke mantra no gadh hai|| Ek ek ke sang na rah(i) bai||11||

Hinduism and Islam will be relinquished and in every home there will be diverse beliefs; no one will listen to the ideas of another one; on one will remain with anyone.11. (Page 1136)

And finally why does Guru Ji only mention Hinduism and Islam? Does this mean that there will be pure Sikhs (like does it mean that the Khalsa will remain pure)? I know this sounds like a foolish question but why aren't Sikhs mentioned in this section?

One more request, does anyone know of any Katha talking about the Kalki Avtar so I could understand this section easier?

Sorry if I have offended anyone. Bhul Chuk Maaf

WJKK WJKF

I think it would be better if you could see everyone online rather than friends... Sure i'm not alone in that I've never gone into the profile sections or added friends etc

Agreed!!

Oh ok makes sense.

Good luck on your research. Do let us know if you find something interesting.

Wait how does the chatroom feature work?

Beautiful

Thank you

Rab Rakha

you may be correct , but even then there are pure Gursikh who are smart boy as well.

So girls will put me at bottom.

Mine like cases are very less where ihave come at the point of mariage and i don't know how to tie Turban

Its ok veera with practice you will learn how to tie a proper Dastaar as well. You'll get used to it. I'm pretty sure you'll find someone to help you tie a Dastaar and slowly you can learn. Look up videos on the net or tell a Granthi Ji to help you learn. My younger brother wanted to tie a dastaar and our Granthi Ji helped him learn how to tie a Gol dastaar.

Rab Rakha

Our sisters and mothers - families of Shaheeds, who themselves were raped, tortured and physically maimed in Delhi in November 1984 - are living in abject poverty, and here our Gurdwara Parbandhiks are putting gold on Gurdwaras. Sad state of affairs!

Waheguroo

Agreed. I'm pretty sure Guru Ji would be more happy if the money was used for charity and to help our sister than to have Gold put on his Duar.