H4RPAL

uh oh.......I think I sense whats coming.........

PLEASE for once, can we not have an argument erupt?

Any body fink im rite or wrong??

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What was the question or point again?

Maybe he cant, dunt blame me, some one help mehhh

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Ok, I'll stop now. Just wanted to make you think! (sorry if I made your brain hurt!)

see i told uuu

its tha propa marayada

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Why don't use ask the 'normal geeza' or whatever why he doesn't carry 5 shasters then? Does he not want to get darshan of Guru Ji??

5 Shastar refer to proper 5 shastar, as in a tupak, tabar, pash, tulwar, and teer kamaan, not 5 kesa wale shastar, the amount of Nihangs who keep true to this maryada is very few indeed.  This was meant to be for the times of Maharaj when the Khalsa were always in a Jang, and 5 Shastar meant that they were always tyar bar tyar.  Carrying shastar just for the sake of it is also a disregard for Khalsa Maryada, if you dont know how to use it, i wouldnt carry it.

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Thanks for the clarification- I couldn't agree more. (usually) blunt dummala shastars are useless, especially without knowledge of how to make them effective! But to see someone carrying 5 real shastars, especially when it can safely be assumed they know how to use them is truly an awe-inspiring sight, even more so beacuse this is something very hard to maintain today for most of us.

oi i bin told that so shrup, ask a person or nihang man

cus i bin told diss by a normal gezza who dusnt wear 5 sashtur

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Maybe you shouldn't rely on the information of 'normal gezza(s)' whatever they are!

I think the level of avastha at which veer ji would consider himself a Sikh is that at which he has become one with God, and thus would not exist. It is only our ego which which is the facet of our own existence- and hence without it we realise there is only one that we are all part of.

Anyway, thats what I made of it when I read it.....might be wrong, usually am!

lets sey..2 or 3 of the panj kakaar and thats only for starters.

NOOO, they wear thier full kakkar, and they wear another 5 sashtur's cus father ses that 'if you want to see me i have to have panj sashtur at all times'

soo DUNT DISS NIHANGS, father was one aswell

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so the... lets recap- all Amritdharis who do not wear 5 shastars will not get Darshan of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji????

So I guess they're all wasting their time following what they think is the Rehat he set then, eh?

What a bunch of idiots then, eh Kumi?

"Baba Deep Singh, Who was ordered to Take care of Taksal was from Tarna Dal (part of Buddah Dal) "

http://www.budhadal.com/hisofbudhadal2.htm

Budha Dals own official site (Baba Santa Singh Ji's faction) says this about the creation of Budha Dal, which would suggest both it and Tarna Dal were not in existence at the time of Baba Deep Singh Ji:

The Establishment of Budha Dal

Dal Khalsa became too powerful and was very difficult to control centrally by Nawab Kapoor Singh particularly, after the death of Darbara Singh in 1734. He divided Singhs into 2 major groups (Jathas); Budha Dal and the other one Tarvna Dal. The Jatha of Budhadal had all the members of the age group above 40 years where as all the members of Tarna Dal had to be below 40 years of age. These too bands had their own drum (Nagara) and banner (Nishan). Nawab Kapoor Singh remained in command of these two dals which were jointly known as Dal Khalsa.

This would suggest that Dal Khalsa was the order of Nihangs which originally existed, and then this was split by Nawab Kapoor Singh Ji to make the Budha and Tarna Dals.

That is not aimed at Guru Ji, they are saying those things to Aurenzeb.  Read on from there.

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"Ma Guru even praised his enimes in bani " I think the quote shows Kumi recognised that!

For now, if you are unable to find out who these people are or unable to contact them, then i suggest you end this topic right now because there can be no follow up to this problem right now. if the next time someone does something like this and someone educates them about it then post and let us know what the result was. thats something positive.

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I think its up to the admins to end the topic!

i'm wit heera.

what, you expecting an intelligent post from smartsingh on a thread where people continually bite each other's heads off? No dice. Clean up the language and stop trying to turn this thread into a brutish argument, and maybe I might post one more time....  :..:

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is that a Brutish argument, or a British argument??? Both mean the same thing you know!

kk if you played telephone, you know that the word always changes....

alot of maryadas are oral traditions

sooo the older the closer to what guru ji said

why do we want that?

cuz singhs and kaurs back then were soo chardi kala, gave shaheedi, mothers gave there kids for shaheedi

now tha same mother tells her son n daughter not to grow kes or dastarr she doesnt want em to be picked on or harmed

ppl cry ohh the 84 shaheeds were just kids why o why did they have to be "militant"

ppl are proud that punjabis can drink any Brit,scot,irish guy under tha table,,,,instead of tha shaheedi there family gave

we forget things like our bani, our history things like that we gottta go back to tha basics

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A lot of maryadas are oral tradition. That is correct, and as we know oral traditions have the tendency to be flawed. Now, what is the main method by which the Budha Dal and Nihangs in general pass their history/beliefs etc?? Oral Tradition is a big part of what they do!

This is not intended at all to be critical of any particular Rehat- the point I am trying to make is be critical of all Rehats- if they don't live up to the teachings of the Guru, it is likely they are not derived from the Guru.

hmm akal thakts rehat is just over 50 yrs old, and buddah dals is centuries old.........Tat Khalsa Maryada

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Are we saying older the better? Just curious.

I gots an Idea. 

If you are truely concerned about this Miss Posh, then i suggest you send them an email asking them what they think the symbol means to them.  Its a simple question and im sure they will provide a simple answer.

That is Step 1.  Lets take this one Step at a Time.  Email them and respond with their reply, perhaps you will find our more than you think.

btw do not post the link to that site here. Unless you want some hothead from here to go there and start to give them death threats.  Yes IT WILL happen.  There are always few who are trigger happy.

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She has tried to find the site she got the pictures from again, but with no luck, hence there is no way to contact the people.

So.... lets sum up- no way to contact the people, no-one knows who they are= no-one can do anything anyway. I think we should stop worrying about what to do to them, and continue this as the slightly wider discussuin of wht to do/say if someone was doing this infront of you, as the topic intended (from what I see anyway)

That is what will actually be constructive here, so that people don't get beat up and mugged of their khanda jewellery/ramals etc. I think Gurpreet Singhs post has been the most useful thus far, as it is sugegsted we should look at the root of the problem when trying to deal with these issues.

sure you can, its obviously not on the same level, but it does affect sikhi as a whole. It's not even people like the guy in the pictures fault, but, if you cant educate people in our generation about what sikhi is, or the importance of the symbols and what they mean, who is going to educate the next generation of sikhs what sikhi really is, and the importance of the symbols.

Im not even saying the ugy is disrespecting anything, but representing it without knowing the meaining, is a problem in itself. It turns everything you do into a ritual, when you do it without uinderstanding why. Sure its not going to affect you, but look at the future of sikhi as well, if 90% of the sikhs in our generation dont know the meanings of the symbols, or even of sikhi as a whole, whats going to happen to the future of sikhi? Plain and simple, its going to turn into what hinduism has become, a bunch of blind rituals that no one knows why they are doing.

So yeah, it is important to educate people or else the lack of education will just snowball, and each generation of sikhs will get more and more into rituals.

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h4rpal i agree about an independent kashmir, and nagaland as well as the people of assam, my point was everything that would be left after that, which still would be over 800 million people I would guess in a divided INdia.  Punjab's population is 24 million, roughly and if there will be a khalisan it will include Punjabi speaking areas from Haryana, Rajasthan, Himach Pradesh, and Chandigarh, so let's say 30 million at the most, Kashmir has about 11 million people, Tamil Nadu has 62 million people (http://www.censusindia.net/profiles/tna.html) and nagaland has 2 million people, if subtract these numbers from 1 billion people in present day INdia, this leaves around 895 million people in a divided India so when I said we should think about Sarbat Da Bhala I was referring to those 895 million people or so, out of which I would say 70% are very very poor.

trust me I'm 200% for khalistan but again I have to stress that we have to fix the image of the khalistani movement which ahs been very badly portrayed to the world.  Compassion which is so evident in Sikhi is and should be the backbone of the khalistani movement and we have to show the world this, and by show I do not mean an act but true, genuine compassion.

peace brother.

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Thanks for the clarification- I think our views are not too different in spite of our little debate back there. Sure, the remaining Hindu population, and other population of India/Hindustan should be helped too, as their poverty is an issue that no Sikh can be comfortable with. When I make refrences to Hindustan Murdabad, I never mean it as a refrence to the Hindu nation as such, but rather the current state of Hindustan, as it now is, clinging onto other nations with horrendous force.

That is the Hindustan I wish a death to- the Hindustan that abuses its own civillians, and taht which sees the 'lower' castes as unworthy of any attention. If they would just concentrate a little more on povery and less on munitions, a lot could be done. Sure, there is a need for a balance, with the threats from outside, but surely, the current position does not illustrate such a balance.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

Is the picture taken by the guy at the bottom? Like r the two pictures together and its probably his gurlfriend who he dressed up like that?

Neway thats usualy the case, that a 'sikh' is usualy the one who gives their friends religious symbols to look all 'gangsta'

neway

ummm

what would i do if i saw that?

If i knew the person personally i would approach them and tell them what they r doing is disrespectful of our religion and it would b like me wearing a symbol of their religion.

In most cases people will listen...

If they don't by ane chance listen .....

.....

................

........

................................

even though i think that    ..... 

:TH:

Bhul Chuk Maaf

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Seems like a rational response to me!

Read Bhai Sukha singh and Bhai Jinda's jail chithiyaa in which they say that they have no ill feelings towards the poor people of Hindustan. They said their fight is against tyranny and injustice and the people behind them.

Our slogans should not be Hindustan Murdabaad.  To believe that Khalistan Zindabaad means hindustan murdabaad is going to fuel a lot of hatred for the sikh freedom movement.  First of all would any Sikh despite being betrayed by India, let pakistan invade even an inch of Indian soil, NO.  If you look at the population of India, there are so many poor people who barely get enough food to feed their families.  The Sikhs are an independent nation. They deserve an independent sikh homeland called Khalistan.  However, in the true spirit of sikhi I say long live Hindustan, Pakistan, and Khalistan! Sarbat Da BHala!  As Sikhs we should strive for justice for all, this starts with securing our homeland of khalistan and preserving the sikh identity but it also means upholding justice for the people of Hindustan and pakistan because that is what Sikhi is all about.  We can play on words all we want but Hindustan Murdabaad means death to INdia, and that is not very Sikh-like.  I'm not saying we should be carrying Indian flags and putting them at gurughars, what im saying is that we need to be smart, India has managed to give the khalistani movement a bad image, let's not act in ways which makes things easier for them, it is time Sikhs wise up and put the movement on the right track.

KHALISTAN ZINDABAAD!

peace.

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You talk about sarbat da bhalla. What about the muslims of Kashmir, the Christians of Nagaland, Tamil Nadu's- what you are saying is we should get Khalistan, and everyone else will have to lump it with India. Nah, freedom for all sounds more appealing to me, freedom for all from the Brahim autocracy, hence Hindustan Murdabad ( That is the state, not Hindus as people, as I have explained in my previous post). The 'state' of Hindustan as it currently is is just a mish-mash of Nationalities who don't want to be banded togeter, and as such is unsustainable.

lol yup venue handsworth park, u best bring ur boys! i'll be coming with around 20'000!!!

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Is there gonna be bazookas in this fight????

LOOOOOOLLLL   

KAM man!!!! oh man this is tooo funny, i swear i never heard kami/kam speaking like this in my life!!

have you installed eubonics font on ur pc my little friend! Seriously i dnt get why your chatting the way you are? Most of use slang because we cant be asked to type the full words but ur taking the laddo here!!

BELIVE ME gangster kami isnt from any ghetto!!

Id be suprised if he was allowed to handle a potato peeler never mind firearms!!

Geezer you crack me up, your getting a clip around your ear on sunday, lad!!

Rude boy! lol

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Haw, potato peela is letthhaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllllll

How many time i bleedddd bludddyyyyyy helllllllllll.!!!!!!!!!!

btw was happening on sunday???

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Sundays normally the day for ghetto swap meets isn't it?

Is it me or is someone on crack here ...  @

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Maybe its sukha

  @ i donno how ppl can have Ek oankar on their hands, i mean how do they goto the toilet?  Plastic hand 

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AGAIN..

like veerji said..

the word 'ik onkar' is in gurbani ... hence it is bani !!! Would you have bani your hand and go to the bathroom and do all that stuff with your hand !? Im sure you need both hands ...

Nice point veerji i overlooked that

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LoL same ere so can u go toilet wiv a kanda on

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How is that relevant- are you going to be wiping your bottom with the khanda?????

here is a caption from the photographer explaining the photo (just thought I'd bring it back onto topic!)

"It was in Guru Ka Baag, the old historic chhauni of Budhha Dal. Baba Balbir Singh Akali Ji was sitting in the 'Varaanda'. I asked him to came out among the 'Sangat'. Baba Akali said to me, 'Chalo Ji' and came out there. This Nihang Singh took this weapon and stood before Baba Balbir Singh Akali. He fired to salute Baba Balbir Singh Akali.

Right before him, Baba Balbir Singh Akali Ji was standing. I thought this Nihang Singh was just doing drama, because few moments ago he was joking to me. When I took my camera to take his photographs, I realised that he is serious. Then he said 'Akaal' and fired to salute Baba Balbir Singh Akali. 'Zordaar Dhamaaka' "