singh181

In Khalsa Raj we're going to have Amritdhari Sikhs of all racial and ethic backgrounds. Please elaborate on how is that tantamount to losing Sikhi? If whites/blacks/Muslims choose to walk on the path of Gurmat by their own free will, I'd say that would cement the foundation of Sikhi. Gurdwara Sahibs being open to everyone is what Sikhi is all about.

Most of your concerns are genuine, but I think its discussion and not debating that needs to be done. However, thats just my opinion.

Hi,

Your question makes sense only and only if these people become amritdharis. If not, then my point stands.

In case you guys didn't realize, life is a path on which we run after our priorities. Choose them wisely.

"singh181" and "Kalsingh"

I don't know what your priorities in life are, and honestly, I am not bothered or interested to know either because I don't care. Its your life, live it the way you want to. Its upto you guys if you want to prioritize girls or Sikhi. Trust me, not a single person on this forum has the time to bother about your decisions in life and drag you to court if you don't follow Sikhi in the best possible way. The people here are only trying to help you out, and are doing so in the best possible way, and in a way that they see as Gurmat, based upon the Sikhi knowledge they've been blessed with. If you don't want to listen, hey, feel free to log off this site, and God bless you. You want to continue keeping your hair, hey, God bless you with more strength. You want to cut your hair, again, that is your decision. None of us is getting a box of sweets if you guys end up as chardi kala Gurmukhs, and none of us is going to get fined if you ruin your life spiritually. The gain and loss is totally yours, the decisions you make in life are totally yours, so please stop sounding like the opinions expressed on this forum are going to decide your fate. I am sorry but you'd be really miserable if that was the case. The bibiyaan here are only giving you a bibi's point of view. It is absolutely alright if you don't agree with them, and since this is an online forum it is but natural to sometimes misunderstand as to what the other person really meant. I found it funny how the bibi apologizing for misunderstanding was actually accused of being hankari. What a judgment!

Once again, only Gurujee knows what exactly is someone's spiritual stage in terms of Sikhi. Whether you are a monna, or Amritdhari, or an "inbetween non-Amritdhari", only Gurujee can judge you. When your time comes, by His grace you will find your significant other. Until then, you are are advised, encouraged and requested to continue improving upon your Sikhi. If you choose to do so, great! If not, do you think I would scratch my head even once? Trust me, I won't.

Hey,

Your comment has gone wildly off the original debate and have focussed on myself and Kalsingh. We have not ever mentioned anything about cutting hair, so for you to bring this up is a bit crazy and bewildering to me. This is not about people feeling insecure about themselves.

This is one of the biggest problems with our religion. We tend to have digs against each other rather than live in peace and harmony.

I think we are all agreed that there is a problem with marriage in uk. Is it not time for people just to be honest? People might say don't link all this to religion. Well, the point that most people are missing is (including Amarjit Kaur) the lower the number of girls who agree to marry a Singh (with turban and beard - inbetweeners or not as the case may be), the less chance of future generations of children having turbans and beards. Now you may say - so what as a person with a turban and beard is not always perfect. That may be the case. Guru Gobind Singh Ji did say you will recongnise a Sikh from a crowd of thousands. In the UK, will this still stand to be true in 10/15/20/30 years time.??????? With the comments coming on this site, it may be so as everybody appears to be sleeping into thinking they have comfy lives, the car, the money etc...they have forgotten what sacrifices the Guru Ji's made for the hair and turban and have sought to blame one another and then got intertwinned with points that they sought to make on religion and then at times has got personal. It just shows that we cannot even have a sensible debate.

Is the future for UK Sikh's - Mixed marriages, more divorces, westernised individuals. Whites, Blacks/Muslims/Sikhs walking into gurdwaras with mixed children. Now I know the gurdwara is open to people from all cultures and backgrounds, but don't people think we ARE IN DANGER OF LOSING OUR SIKHI.

Lets have a proper open debate before its too late.

Veer Ji, I was not trying to get in the last comment and I probably shouldn't be commenting right now but I have to clarify a few things. I am asking for waheguru to give me the ability to stay quiet but so far I have gotten better but not all the way. Now getting to the point. I was done commenting but you brought me back in the conversation by mentioning me again, so I thought maybe you didn't understand me and I was just trying to word myself better. Idk. Sorry, If I said anything wrong.

Also, please don't say I am amritdhar, I am not worthy of that tittle. I am still trying to perfect my rehit and waiting for Waheguru Ji to give me the opportunity to take amrit. I hope to take amrit as soon as I can.

Please Veer Ji, menu apni choti bhen samaj ka maaf kardo.

Hi,

Now that you have both made up....lol

The original debate seems to have gone a bit stray - my question to you is how many girls do you know who would seriously want their husband to be one who wears and turban and beard as most responses received have been from males....? There are many in betweeners out there - these are not bad people - in fact some are even better than people who show to the outside world something and within themselves are something else.

Would be good to have some IN BETWEENER FEMALES comment too?????

Kuriya are not gone anywhere, just somehow didn't click on the topic till now.

As most of you already know. I am already married amritdhari, but was not when I married (both were not).

So you can see all parts of the story through my eyes.

Would I have considered amritdhari when I was looking for a husband??

Answer: NO

??:: Why not

Answer: because I had no sikhi in me, except that I went to gurudwara every 2 months. went for langar or just for the sake of going to Gurudwara and matha tek, socialized, ate langar and came home and told mom who I met at Gurudwara.

So if I couldn't imagine what sikhi is about, how I was going to accept the person who was amritdhari and was following it. I was not going to be appreciative of him being amritdhari. And I was not strictly sikh myself, so I was not going to be changing for him. becaue I was in denial of following sikhi at that time.

Next question: Why didn't I marry a clean shaven so called sikh guy then

Answer: I didn't limit myself to clean shaven or full bearded guys, but somehow had this GoD given attraction for bearded guys only. I call it GoD's play to have me go in more sikhi oriented family than my parents family. So i call it destiny. I was destined to walk on this path of SIKHI, thats why Guru Sahib let me marry only my husband whose parents were already amritdhari and slowly slowly the effect of Gurbani being recited in house, changed us (me and my husband) as well.

Now to comment in general.

If girls are not going for you because you are amritdhari, the answer lies in the fact that they don't wanna be following sikhism to the book. They wanna be just going to Gurudwara, to Gurpurb celebrations to mingle, to socialize, so that they can pretend to belong to sikhism. They are afraid of following the rehat. They are afraid that this Amritdhari guy would change them and they don't wanna change.

Being actual follower of sikhism is to change your lifestyle to fit into sikhi principles, not to change sikhi to fit your lifestyle. But unfortunately, today's so called born-to-sikh-parents sikhs are doing the latter.

So my suggestion to these Amritdhari brothers would be to stop wasting time for these girls. They are not worth it.

Take it like this. Is a particular girl willing to give her head to GURU Sahib. iF answer is NO. then she is not worth it.

If yes, then she WOULD like to get to know you better and you should be flexible too to compromise on other things except sikhi principles.

Some of the amritdhari guys out there are too stuck on somethings as well. They want the perfect piece all ready to acquire for them. But when there is perfect piece, then they themselves fall short on somethings. The balance is being hard to achieve.

Don't consider yourself to be best either. Because there are girls out there who follow sikhism better than you may be, so kill this ego in you. if there is some girl out there worth considering, get to know her little better. Give the process time. Things dont' unfold in one day or months. everything takes time.

Rest as I always say. you will meet one day the one whose kids father you are going to be. So be patient. Leave things on GOD. Work on your sikhi as it never reaches perfection. There is always room for more to improve on.

And when time comes, a girl will fall into your plate :-))

Hi Amarjit,

You have made some excellent points. But your situation is different to that posed by the original question and the source of the debate. Perhaps you could comment on that?

For example, how many girls do you know that would be willing to marry a person with turban and beard (who is amritdhari or not as the case may be)?

Look at the issue in the bigger scheme of things....it's not about the current generation, it's about futue generations.. It is everyones responsibility to carry Sikhi forward to the next generation.<br /><br />If today you have Sikh girls not wanting to get married to turban wearing Sikh males...i.e complete rejection of the image the Gurus created Sikhs in...you might think OK no big deal...they should have a choice..etc etc.. even though it's in complete rejection of Rehit Maryada, and at least 2 of Guru Gobind Singhs 52 Hukums... Personally I see this as a failing of therie parents to instil proper Sikhi knowledge and pride in the 1st place..<br /><br />What happens to the next generation..i.e: their kids, 99% there kids will also be monay, and be passed on the same warped, watered down values that their parents had...Slowly your wiping out a generations of Singhs internally...you dont need any enemies to do it for you...We are our own worst enemies..

What a great comment by Cisco Singh - he has raised the prospect of Sikhs destroying their own religion. Are we all blind that this is happening before our very eyes? Fast forward 20 years, then 40 years (4th generation in UK) - what will it look like? Will many sikhs (well they may even be half afro caribean/half muslim/half white in 20-40 years time) then be embarassed to even associate themselves with our true Guru Ji's. This is the time which will define our future and unless something is done to reverse what is happening, it will be too late.

Believe in our Guru Ji's and sacrifices made by them and if you are lucky to be be born into such a great religion, you should not be embarassed about that. Unfortunately, we live in a world where people are forgetting about sikhi, go to gurdwara and then outside of the gurdwara totally disrespect the religion.

WJKK WJKF

Hey Penji,

I think you are taking this personally and being defensive, unnecessarily. Nobody has aimed any of these comments at you. You may well be the perfect or good sikh girl that others should look up to, I don't know. But what is clear is that you have had the guts to come on here for the record and speak out which is good. Where are the rest of the sikh girls...........!

Not all sikh boys are perfect - to the contrary, some do our religion much harm. e.g boys with turban smoking on the street and drink alcohal is not unusual. It's the second generation growing up in the uk and it has gone absolutely crazy - girls and boys thinking they have the money, the cars and not wanting to listen to their parents as to what is good and bad and frankly acting more westernised than the people in the country they live in. You cannot imagine what is going to happen to the 3rd/4th generation. Perhaps, mixed marriages (sikhs and non sikhs - it is happening now). Who knows! Everybody should just wake up. One of the reasons why most people in our religion are soo successful is because they have a sound family life (even if they are religious and non religious).

You can even walk into any gurdwara in the UK and speak to any respected elderly indivdual for a view on what has been discussed on here. You may find that the response you get is not one which you (as a british sikh girl) will like or even accept. Your response may be, 'I don't know why I bothered to ask'., but you cannot deny that there is a trend and it is not a good one for our religion. The gurdwara pardans are in denial - many are there for the status and cushy seats. If they speak out on what is happening, then they lose their elected seats so no point discussing with them.

In the meantime, more comments from sikh girls are welcome. If you are more comfortable messaging me personally, please feel free to do so. I'm just intrigued by this debate and more comments in general are welcome.

WJKK WJKF

Hi all,

I agree, it would be nice if we could have a civilised debate and stick to the original question. One thing is clear - if a sikh boy has a turban and beard (amritdhari or non amritdhari), he is in a more difficult position than a clean shaven man. FACT. Secondly, a lot of sikh girls say no without even looking or wanting to enter dialogue with a man with turban and beard. FACT. Third, all this is happening and includes sikh girls brought up in amritdhari families, which for our religion is extremely disturbing - FACT. It means that when future generations of sikhs grow up, the man with turban will be a very small minority in our religion. You do really wonder whether the sacrifices made by our guru's, singh's and singhnian in our historic past is not being acknowledged by this self indulgent and selfish (I would say New Sikh girls) in the UK. It is like they are re-inventing themselves as almost wanting to be as somebody has quoted above (a bit bollywood, a bit sikhi where they want to be), which is ok as they can live their life how they want, but at the end of the day, they should never be in a position where it is embarrasing to walk with a singh or wear a kara (that is just wrong in my opinion).

There is a big problem in the UK in our religion so far as marriage is concerned and it appears that sikh girls have contributed to this. I challenge any sikh girl to prove otherwise.

Thanks for all your comments btw and the fact that most responses are coming from sikh brothers tells a chilling picture in itself.....

WJKK WJKF

Where have all the kuria gone. Only 1 response from a girl. They must have a guilty concious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for all your responses.

Are there any in betweener girls (those that would want to get married to guys with turbans and beards but not amritdhari) out there who would like to have a say and perhaps comment on Kalsingh's comments??? Let's hear it first hand.

WJKK WJKF

Hi Wales85,

Your thoughts and comments are interesting!

It would be good to hear the views of your friends and the 'decent good girls' first hand as my original posting mentioned in-betweeners and non amritdhari people. It appears that the focus in the replies received so far refers to amritdhari boys and some people have gone off the original question. However, I am sure that there are very good decent non amritdhari boys but who have a turban and beard and get judged by that very fact. It would be good to have some feedback and comments from sisters too!

Thanks

WJJK WJJF

It is becoming ever more apparant that there is a growing trend in the uk that many sikh girls do not actually want to marry with people with turbans and beards (amritdhari and non-amritdhari). In general, I don't know what many of your experiences and would be good to hear from fellow brothers and sisters, but it does appear our religion is going backwards in this respect. Does anybody have any thoughts? What about the in betweeners (those who are not too religious and also not too not religious) but have turban and beard - it appears sikh girls just don't want to know. Is there something inherently defective in the way people are taught about the teachings of our religion in gurdwara's for us to even be having this discussion?

Thanks