Khoolasice

It is so sad when people parade on here as intellectuals. Kudos to some of beautiful brothers and sisters of jatt background here who do have enough intelligence to understand that ego is behind the embarrassing self congratulatory hillbilly pride.

It is very difficult and quite probably frustrating for non-Jatts to understand the mentality of the Jatt race.

Better if they don't try as it could fuel their insecurity.

But Giani has a name also.

I am surprised at your attitude. Do you even realize what you are writing?

You are writing that Giani used to drink so much that two men used to hold him.

A gaini is called a minister in Guru's house. No Giani does what you are writing here.

There is another thread on this forum that is accusing a Gianni of much worse, wake up....

Y

The gurudwara you have stated is not one of first Gurudwara in UK.Check your facts.

Who was that Giani and in which year?

(Sigh) It was the first Gurdwara in Walsall.....

It was the first Gianni ever in the Gurdwara

The last time I talked with the GOR's Trustees, yes Kirpans, not long swords, are allowed.

The only reason that the Kirpan was even brought into this issue was because the 4 banned insurgents were photographed brandishing swords inside of the Gurdwara in an attempt to intimidate the Trustees and the Sangat. Had these fundementalists acted appropriately, then there would have never been an issue.

So there you have it, Kirpans ARE allowed.

Just because you see a man in a turban crying foul, it doesn't mean you should just jump up and start crying with him....

God gave you ability to reason and use logic.

There will be Giannis at that Gurdwara, they will be carrying kirpans.

Your profound hate for sikhs ( A sikh is that who has hair) shows your background.

Your profound hatred for Guru Nanak's Sikhs (Sehajdharis) shows you have no future in mainstream Sikhi.

Khoolasice - Your point is baseless.

This discussion is about banning of Amritdhari Sikhs in a USA Gurudwara. Sehajdhari Sikhs are a lot involved in any sort of sewa in any Indian OR International Gurudwaras, and form a part of even Management Committes, lots of them have been the founders and founding members of various Gurudwaras and lots of them have made their first kid as Kesh Dhari.

Now, as far as the Khalsa code of conduct is concerned, an Amritdhari Sikh is the full form of "KHALSA" as baptised by Guru Gobind Singh Jee and encoded in Rehat Maryada. And it is what this form of KHALSA and Panj Pyare from whom Guru Jee himself asked for Amrit Pahul. It is this KHALSA and Panj Pyare to whom Guru Jee said the whole Panth to look at when the whole Panth is in need of direction.

Having said that, the defination of a Sikh does not stops over here, and it extends to Sehajdhari Hindus Or even people from any other community OR religion. It is a very wide defination, and even as per Rehat Maryada, Guru Jee says "Rehat Pyari Mujhko, Sikh pyara nahin". So, even is a beard grown Sikh might not be a Guru's Sikh if does not behaves as per Rehat Maryada.

So, what you are doing is just distorting the discussion and trying to take the discussion in baseless territories. Read the code of conduct and Rehat Maryada first ...

I don't believe ALL amritdharis are banned, rather a small number of troublemakers that happen to be amritdharis, having kesh does not give anyone the right to cause trouble for people.

I would argue that these jumped up little upstarts are not Sikhs hair or no hair.

Read sikh code of conduct before writing here. This is prepared by khalsa panth.

Read it yourself

What is your role in this? Are you hired by GOR? Are you a sikh?

While agree that there may be factional issues between two parties but

i am not able to understand why they ban the kirpan worn by singhs.

You wrote

One of the basic reuirement of ikhism is tom have hair. Are you telling us that people managing GOR have formulated new

guidelines for sikhism?

How do you know that managment of POR are good sikhs?

They have abandoned basics of sikhism and hence are apostates.In simple language

they do not qualify to be sikhs.

Shaven Sikhs outnumber hairy ones 10 to 1.

Who are you to Quantify what makes a Sikh or who should run a Gurdwara?

My father was one of a few that held collections in pubs and opened one of the first Gurdwaras, many more shaven Sikhs did the same all over the country, where were you amritdharis then?

Now the Gurdwaras and communities are built you think you have a right to come and dictate to us who should be in charge?

The arrogance displayed here is breathtaking...

But it won't wash.

If amritdharis continue along this path of segregation and eliteism you will end up with nothing more than an offshoot cult of Guru Nanak,s Sikhi

Nice1

I couldn't respond any better. And yes, over the centuries, time and again GurSikhs have proved this "romantic" version of Sikhi to be very true and real.

Incorrect, our ancestors were blessed with it.

No its not. We are the ones on the decline, not Sikhi.

Yes they do. Some even say Sikhi can be marketed ...just kidding

Thats the problem with these "young ones" then, not Sikhi.

And we are proud of them!

Yes, as long as your "sehej avastha" eventually leads you to become Amritdhari. Sehejdhari is someone born to non-Sikhs and gradually progressing into Sikhi. Someone born to Sikhs and cutting/shaving hair is a Patit, NOT a Sehejdhari. Cutting hair always was and always will remain a big, fat and straight-forward NO! NO! in Sikhi.

I have been sold a new car

I have been blessed with a new car

What's the difference?

We are not in decline, the human population on Earth is growing, Sikhi as a percentage of that population is in decline.

If our children are not educated properly then it must be the fault of the Parents not the children.

The Child is mentioned by witnesses, I would suggest that these 'witnesses' were Ravidass worshippers so would potray these heroes in the worst possible light.

I would have prefered it if at least five of these Sikhs were free to be of further service to Sikhi.

Read your post # 4.That is a display of hatred against religious text of Muslims.

A sikh does not hate any religion.

No it isn't, it is merely a statement of fact. why are you disturbed so much by it?

So you are endorsing the action of a mad man.

Keep in mind that religious texts are above everything.Hate begets hate.

Are you in training to become a polititian?

I am not endorsing anything

'Hate begets hate'

What a lovely Christian sentiment...

And what was your purpose in putting up a link to this video? Why spread the video? If this happened to our Holy Scriptures, would we want the world watching it?

When Muslims put up videos of them converting Sikh girls, do they ask your permission first?

No?

Then neither shall I....

You need to read sikh history before passing your judgement on character of sikhs especially when lying is involved.

Sikhs have taken such actions earlier many years ago on a foreign soil .But when it came to courts they defended themselves speaking truth.

Thus they demonstrated that sikh ideals are more important to hold than their lives.

I am saying that they should defend themselves citing reasons for such action.That is not confession but stating the facts.

They are more than good enough for me.

May WaheGuru bless them and their families.

Sant Jarnail singh Bhindrewale stood like a true sikh and fought to death.He proved detractors like Gen Brar dead wrong

as he calimed that when airplanes roar, guns fire and tanks make deafening noises all run away or hide.

He stood like a true khalsa and reinvented sikh spirit.

A khalsa does not resort to lies.If they have done it own it.

I look forward to your confession:))

That is a lovely romantic view of Sikhi, but unfortunately not true.

Sikhi is a religion that our Gurus marketed and sold to our ancestors, it is now in decline because silly, self righteous people go around misinterpreting the SGGS Ji and making it unappealing to the young.

Bir Khalsa Gatka group have probably raised more awareness and interest in Sikhi than most of todays 'Leaders' put together!

I was led to believe that Guru Ji bestowed upon us the right to be Sehajdhari Sikhs?

You are showing your true colors now. That is what GOI tell us in sugar coated language.

A sikh is always armed.So Bhindrewale ahd every right to carry weapons and he used those rightly

to take on aggressors who were entering Harmanidr sahib with jackboots.

Every sikh will do that.

There are no parallels here. Bhindrewale stood his ground and gave his life there.

If They have done a heroic work, they should own it also.Putting up excuses bellitle their sacrifice.

It feels like you are deliberatly misunderstanding what I am saying, but for the record -

Sant JSB is a hero and now so are these brave men.

They don't need to own up to anything for you.

I can not even imagine the courage it must have taken for just the six of them to take on 150....

Someone please put up info where help can be provided for them and theirs.

It is a fact that Rama Nand was styling himself as a living guru for his sect.He should not have indulged in

in such activities in presence of SGGS ji.

But Sant Jarnail singh ji always maintained respect of SGGS sahib. He did not kill anybody.Can you give us a reference for your statement or should we consider it as a sarcastic remark without

any proof.

A General is responsible for his troops, why did SJS Ji allow his troops to enter The Golden Temple with their weapons if not for self defence?

Well the big thing is that post 1984 those singhs who killed an enemy of the sikhs admitted their crime and took the punishment as if the Lord has blessed them. Here we see the opposite so can we really stick by them, defend them and praise them for being cowards!

What these Sikhs achieved is there for all to see.

There is nothing cowardly about one of them sacrificing himself for his brothers.

Sikhs need to smarten up, they do us no good languishing in prisons or dangling at the ends of ropes...

not to mention the fact that they shot someone in Maharaj's darbar right in front of Guru ji's saroop!!!

You mean like Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale?

Is there any support arranged for these Singhs famillies?

I'm not sure it is good practice to jump every time someone makes a remark about Sikhi we may not like, surely our religion is stronger than that?

I feel the way forward is to learn the lessons of our Guru's lives and try and make Sikhi more approachable and inclusive, only if we attract more Hindus to Sikhi will we survive.

As far as I know, the 'Rule' is to protect the genetic makeup of our offspring and only covers the parents surnames or if one of his sisters married someone of your surname.

You should be able to marry him without issue.

In my town the Giannis get paid such a pittance that they freelance at the local Hindu temple singing Bhajans.

It's so sad, they get treated like dirt from the Gurdwara committee and have the Hindus mathateking them.

People will go where they are respected, made welcome and appreciated.

The link below is the Koran burning, be warned there is foul language in the video.

Too far I think....

*LINK Removed*