RanjeetSingh

so an alochol consuming , drug addict, partying , lustful individual, completely ignorant to gurmat with a castist surname who is born to punjabi sikh parents grows a stubble on his wedding day and asks someone to tie a turban on his head is a sikh?

I dont think you read my reply properly.

The quote I replied to was in reference to Sikhs talibinising Sikhi and what are talibans known for, being extreme, so it looks like the person is against people who want to keep Sikhi the way it should be ( strict ) so I replied as such.

The true definition of Sikhi cannot and IS NOT explainable in one Shabd. Its the whole of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji explains Sikhi. This Shabd you asked me to read, it clearly states one who follows in the instructions of the Guru. The Guru says not to eat drink etc so when one does he/she cannot be classed as a Sikh.

Sikhi is a philosophy and not a religion

Read the shabad "gur satgur ka jo sikh akhaye " to understand the true definition of sikhi

veer heatsikhingmissile our bretheren here are bent upon talbinaizing sikhi

its not talibinising. I doubt the Gurus would want their Sikhs to bend Sikhi to suit their individual needs. If they want to get married, good for them, but not in the Gurudwara.

I guess then why not have a small protest or something at the local gurdwaras that only amritdharis should be allowed to be part of the matrimonial service. It might close down for a few months (LOL) but then amritdharis will also start to use it.

Right now many amritdharis I know don't need the service as they have their 'sikh societies' to meet others and so many are marrying through that circle (right or wrong is irrelevant in this topic).

yes why not? I dont find it amusing. To be honest it time to take shock value actions as the polite approach, people are taking the mick out of the whole service. If people want to marry out of Sikhi, honestly good luck to them. Waheguru knew they had the strength to become Sikhs but due to their own actions, they leave. Cool, we can do without fake 'Sikhs' anyway, theres too many already.

Time for shock tactics...

Excellent. Good work

Can anyone on this forum prove that ALL Sikhs during the time of the Gurus all had kesh when they took part in the Anand Karaj ceremony? Would be difficult since kesh became requirement with the 10th master, not the 4th isn't it? Although I agree that both the bride and groom should believe in Sri Guru Granth Sahib as their Guru in order to be Sikh, the people calling for the non-Sikh to suddenly become keshadari is backwards since you're allowing "Sikh by birth" boys to have the ceremony done without this requirement. Completely hypocritical and therefore puts Sikhi in a bad light.

Another famous Sakhi is when a Hindu has a tobacco field. Guru Gobind Singh Ji's horse would not go near ( see how much Giaan the horse has compared to these 'modern liberal 'Sikhs' ) - The owner of the field asked Guru Gobind Singh Ji to come and eat at his house to which Guru Gobind Singh Ji said I will come to you and become yours completely if you become one of mine, take Amrit and I am all yours. This is just a couple.

Can anyone on this forum prove that ALL Sikhs during the time of the Gurus all had kesh when they took part in the Anand Karaj ceremony? Would be difficult since kesh became requirement with the 10th master, not the 4th isn't it? Although I agree that both the bride and groom should believe in Sri Guru Granth Sahib as their Guru in order to be Sikh, the people calling for the non-Sikh to suddenly become keshadari is backwards since you're allowing "Sikh by birth" boys to have the ceremony done without this requirement. Completely hypocritical and therefore puts Sikhi in a bad light.

manmukhs

Shabad

Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 74

Just a question, what about non Sikhs who have utmost respect for Guru Granth Sahib, they read bani do path and know the basics but get married to a Sikh? What does it mean to accept Sikhi then partake in anand karaj? I know of a non Sikh girl who got married to a Sikh Guy in a Gurdwara and now she does a lot of seva at the Gurdwara does path and reads bani. So where do we define if someone is doing anand karaj without any respect and understanding vs respect and understanding?

I personally do not agree with two people partaking in Anand Karaj Ceremony who do not believe in Guru Sahib or Gurbani. If they do not accept Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj as their Guru then what is the point of partaking in Anand Karaj?

Then I would honestly say they can enter the Gurudwara anytime they wish but not have Anand Karaj done. They can do Matha Tek and receive blessings from the Guru until they actually adopt the Sikh faith, then they can have an Anand Karaj. If they wish to be married under the Anand Karaj and they actually respect the Guru they would understand that to have an Anand Karaj ceremony, both parties must be Sikh and if they respect the Guru, they would wait til actually becoming a Sikh.

There are no lies in Bhai Gurdas dia Vaara.

A Sikh is someone who follows the Guru completely, the first and foremost point is their kesh.

who are fanatics please explain??

yes please explain who the fanatics are, maybe we can shed some light

Fateh...

Some good comments here, but you have all seemed to missed out on a very important point here.

Baba Vadh Baghada ( ;-) ) sihoo is not a gurudwara. Search this forum and see what had happened to the one in London (Southall) a few years ago when 2 saroops of Sri Guru Granth Sahib were taken away from it.

I dont need to remind you of the histrory of these....

Anyway some good discussion, Question is we can get pressure mounted and get the Gurudwaras to oblige to a marriage (so called) ACT, but how will it be administered and enforced on places such as Dera's Baghdad .....

Fateh. ....

damn, I never it was not a Gurudwara. Well. I am confused as to how an Anand Karaj can take place at all ? Dodgy

What about all those chidren born into Sikh families, that dont have any knowledge of Sikhi, that dont have Singh or Kaur in their names? They also get married in gurdwares, I personally feel its quite confusing as where to draw the line. Some will get married in the gurdwara, and know nothing about Sikhi at all, just because they happen to be born into a Sikh family.

No offence to anybody, what about those from other Sikh faith that dont have Singh or Kaur in their surname, but call themselves Sikh, and they get married in a gurdwara? Its the gurdwara committee's role to ensure the rules are praticed. If our gurdwaras cant even get that bit right, then there is something to worry about.

First and foremost its the parents duty to teach how important it is to be a Sikh and how to a Sikh. This is the core issue which needs to get right first.

oh yes, the Gurus would not have turned them away, the Guru would have made them take Amrit and got them to become Sikhs before allowing the marriage to take place fullstop. Sikhs of the old actually jumped at the chance to take Amrit because they knew the importance of it if they wanted to be connected to the true Guru, Waheguru and wanted to be called a Sikh.

Kaljugi its not always of course but I am irritated that a lot of men including sikh men try to do all they can to impress girls.

Ranjeet Singh it is not amusing but it is a fact. Everyone turns up dressed as a sikh on the wedding day. You cannot ban people from marrying unless they are sikh otherwise you need to be prepared for all the other problems:

people 'becoming' sikh for a few months just for the anand karaj

if the person must follow one important rule in sikhism of not cutting hair then the rest of the important rules also need to be followed. No one is going to accept that a sikh should just tick the outer appearance boxes. What if he has criminal convictions etc.

Also I just dont think the Gurus would have turned away anyone of any religion to marry according to sikhism.

I dont disagree with what everyone is saying I just think there would be many problems along with that.

Sorry but I will go straight to the point and I am not being rude at all, just giving facts according to Gurbani...

Of course you can ban marriage under the Anand Karaj ceremony if they are not Sikh. Marriage itself fine, they can go ahead and get married in a Church or registry if leaving Sikhi means that much to them.

If no on agrees to the outer appearance from the offset they are Manmukhs, they are not Sikhs, they are not the Gurus Sikhs. As per Gurbani.

Back to the topic at hand, its the 'modern' Sikh parents diluting Sikhi to their each and individual needs. If the parents do this, then what chance do the children have in keeping Sikhi alive and true to its original core. There is no need to adapt Sikhi, Sikhi is complete. Our Guru, our true Guru is absolute and complete and as soon youth ( I still call myself a youth even though I am 30yrs old married with 2 kids, I find this amusing so LOL ... ) start getting involved in the running of GUrudwaras and stop this nonsense, the better.

I am trying to get into the committee at my local Gurudwara and I recommend that if anyone cares for the future of Sikhi that they do the same. Reason being is because someone will need to take over the running of the Gurudwara as the elders have moreless ruined it for financial gain and the youth of today are waking up and realising what is Sikhi and how beautiful it is. We can still make this change. We can still help organise events for the youth to understand what a Sikh is.

Just by adding Singh to his name he does not become a Sikh ! If he is ok to add Singh to his name he needs to know what it takes to actually be called one.

He needs to be administered Amrit if he has any right to call himself a Singh. You cannot be a Singh nor be called a Singh unless you a Rajput descent but then makes you a Hindu or you take Amrit.

One last point, love for Sikhi comes from the family and oneself. It depends on how truly you love Sikhi as an individual and how much you actually care for the future of Sikhi that you actually first and foremost, give your body to the Guru and at least look like a Sikh.

I could not find anything that amusing that I would laugh out loud. No disrespect intended but the ego needs to breathe...

Simple fact is - there are Gurmukhs and there are Manmukhs, Gurmukhs are Gursikhs that try to follow SIkhi to its core ( there outer appearance shows that they have takken the FIRST step ) and Manmukhs are everything but. Lets not use ' oh he might be Amrithdari but they do this and that '. This is slander and Gurbani states that no one is perfect nor does anyone have the right to point their fingers on anyone's deeds/actions but, there is a fine line of what should be corrected and what should be left alone. Only a true Gurmukh will understand Gurbani and what its actually saying to the reader.

Back to the subject - Only Sikhs should be allowed to get married in front of the Guru with Sikhi appearance ! This is the true Anand Karaj. You are not a Sikh of the Guru if you cut your hair. This is the first thing you give to the Guru. Your body. Your Matha Tek. Everything else will come bit by bit depending on how much you pray for

Anand Karaj should be for Sikh's only. That means a Keshdari Sikh and Amrithdari Sikh only. We youth need to start getting into these committees and make this change. If Hindus which believe in Sikhi but dont follow it, they can get the civil mariage. There is no need to go Anand Karaj. This is disrespectful to our Guru. I am not against Hindus etc but I am against people who disrespect the Guru.

I grew up listening to gangster rap and I agree I was heavily influenced by it. Regardless of what people say, it psychologically changes the thought of one and then thought become actions. It is full of ego and hate.

@ RanjeetSingh

Did the Gurus marry for love?

I do believe being Sikh is more important than caste. That said, considering Sikhs are an ethnoreligious group.

Being a Sikh is to NOT believe in the caste system. Simple as that. Your comments before portrayed yourself as being a caste follower

I honestly enjoyed Singham and Dabang. Based on true stories against corrupt politicians

http://www.sikhmissionarysociety.org/sms/smspublications/guruarjandevjitheapostleofpeace/chapter2/

This link has reports from A.C. Banerjee, Macauliffe and some known Muslim historians. Completely un biased and more to the truth than and enemy of Sikhi.

I hope this helps. It has a wealth of knowledge in true history from non Sikhs. I had to find a report from someone that was non Sikh so that no one could say it was a biased report.

honestly I believe it is. He does not ask for money. He tells you home truths on training and eating right. He gives everything for nothing and the size of him speaks volumes. He is in the mid 50s by the way. I use it and there are written reviews with pictures of people who have used his techniques.

The moment I read that it made me think of food, I don't know why. The way you outlined your plan so perfectly makes me wonder howcome you forgot about the group's lunch? :D

oh I see. lol I get it now Well I do have an answer for that, Langar

Honestly Im being serious. There are event organisers for clubs etc, maybe we should do this for Gurudwara programmes. Yes I know there are many establishments already doing this but maybe it was like a people choice where average people like myself and others can meet and organise such things. Our financial contribution can also go towards our monthly dasvand???

The moment I read that it made me think of food, I don't know why. The way you outlined your plan so perfectly makes me wonder howcome you forgot about the group's lunch? :D

groups lunch? Sorry I dont follow?

You are doing too much cardio and not eating enough. Your body is going into starvation mode and it's eating your muscles for extra calories. That's why you have skinny arms. No muscle means slow metabolism. That's also why you have extra belly fat. Your body thinks it's starving, so it stores the fat around your abdomen to use in an emergency situation.

Cut down on cardio and concentrate more on lifting. If you still have the same problem then you need to eat more, or change your lifting routine.

Cheers.

Excellent advise

keep it up, wicked stuff, farsi (Persian) is a language im going to learn. thanks

By the wat is bhai nand lal a sikh, or did he remain a hindu?

I have read 2 different stories. One that he remained a Hindu but one also where did take Amrit as he requested it after coming to Guru Gobind SIngh Ji for shelter.

I got an idea. We all agree to meet up somewhere central. Agree to put forward our idea's to a Gurudwara that we can agree on. Find out how much it will cost to book the Gurudwara for that day, ( chip in equally ) Get posters made ( my friend owns a printing company ) Organise for some really good well known speakers in English and Gurbani and can give a story of Sikhi. Maybe also have some average joes ( like me or anyone else ) that has been down the route of drink, class A and B and C drugs and living a hell like life, not being able to keep jobs and nearly losing everything and then how Waheguru saved them and their own personal journeys to help show how much strength there is in Gurbani and our Limitless Waheguru???