SevadaarEKhalsa

Ok, I hope you won't forget daas' request. Thanks.

Is Sikhan Di Bhagat Mala (Bhagat Ratnavli) available anywhere on the net?

I know it is on Panjabdigilib but I wanted the edited version either by Bhai Vir Singh or Trilochan Singh.

Thanks.

Thanks.

It is sad that there is not much rabab kirtan on the net (or in real life aswell). We need to get Rabab back in the Gurdwaras.

Thanks. So when did Baba Sri Chand come there to meditate? (during what Gurus time)

Anyone knows of Rabab kirtan. Not the piano one please, something with the real rabab.

I only found this one:

However there was sri chand (uddasi) worship place inside the *outer* complex of sri darbar sahib with one corner (main entrance) opening from darbar sahib's parkarma.. That entry was sealed before we were born and jal/shabeel (water drinking) system was placed on that spot. That worship place is is still there but situated outside of darbar sahib main complex but accessible from outside, just like when you visit books shop include Punjab and sindh bank (though not situated in prime spot, often new visitor won't see that at all). You will find that place if you walk down from jorha ghar towards saraan (hostel).

I think I saw it last year, and it was open. This Udasi place was a small room in the way from the 'parking lot' to the main entrance of Harmandar Sahib. Is it that one?

When I went to Harmandar Sahib last year I took some pics but can't find them.

However Freed had made a video of it where someone in the background reads the notice:

http://video.google....87673&hl=en-GB#

There was another pic, but it is not there on the net anymore. Luckily I had saved it, here it is

I don't think there was any concrete plan by british to take over darbar sahib.That lightning incident happened during Mahraja Ranjit Singh time.. It was evening time during monsoon season with heavy thunderstorms, one lightning/bijla came down to the darbarsahib main diwan hall thru window but didn't struck anything.. stayed for few seconds and exited thru other door.. (description of this happening is mentioned in plaque on top of the door before entering diwan hall.

Veer, it happened in 1877, long after Maharaja Ranjit Singh. The plaque's title is Kudrati Chamatkar.

I respect you for having typed your experiences phenji. Even now you will find some of our brothers saying that this is our girls faults or no such phenomen exists.

We only wake up when its too late.

This is happening everywhere. Muslims targetting Hindu and Christian girls in South India (termed love jihad). Read the following article, it will become clear that all of this have the same pattern, no matter where. Cash amounts are handed out to these "soldiers of Allah", usually coming from extremist groups in Arab countries.

Love Jihad (Malayalam: ലൗ ജിഹാദ്, La Jihād‌), also called Romeo Jihad, is an alleged activity under which some young Muslim boys in Kerala and coastal Karnataka in Southern India reportedly targeted college girls belonging to non-Muslim communities for conversion to Islam by feigning love. The allegations have raised concerns in various Hindu and Christian organizations,^[1] while Muslim organisations in Kerala have denied that they are true.[2]

...

According to Kerala Catholic Bishops Council, up to 4,500 girls in Kerala have been targeted, whereas Hindu Janajagruthi Samiti claimed that 30,000 girls have been converted in Karnataka alone

...

The practice is said to be popular on college campuses, and it was on one such that in early September 2009 two girls — one Hindu and one Christian — indicated that they had been forced to convert by two Muslim youths.^[8] The young men, both of whom were members of the Muslim Popular Front of India's student organisation Campus Front were subsequently arrested and held without bail.

....

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Love_Jihad

What we can do?

* Make leaflets with some personal accounts, facts (such as love jihad in India as mentioned above), to open up eyes of girls from Sikh backgrounds.

* Educate our children from the beginning.

* Educate our friends and relatives with basic knowledge of Sikhi and its history.

* More English language preachers in Gurdwara

You are into Sikhi. Your family might not be. 'Choose' one individual from your family. Befriend him even more if you are not a that good friend to him. Become close and take general discussions towards Punjabiat. Slowly towards Sikhi. Don't give an overdosis, just right amount at the right times. For ex, ask him, 'yaar did you see what happened last month in Punjab? A fellow Sikh brothers turban was taken off by police. This reminds me of 1984'. By this, give him or her a link to a video about 1984 Massacre (from a film or anything on youtube). From there on you can at times start telling more about Sikhi and practical use in this world in this age. Tell them problems in the Qaum, UK conversion, Punjab, Shaheeds, etc.

If not family, you could choose one friend whom you could get more into Sikhi.

This way, if lets say, 50 of us commit to doing this, there won't be 50 Sants, but atleast 50 people more into Sikhi or atleast more aware of their background and less prone to conversions.

I know we can't turn every single Sikh into a Amritdhari, but we could make them more aware of Sikhi. So don't force a mona to become kesdhari/amritdhari, give him space. Give him as much gyaan as possible.

Maybe some guidelines as to what the person should come to know.

* basics of Sikhi (naam, daan, ishnaan, equality, ...)

* meaning of some Shabads

* 1984

* some basic inspirational sakhis (Guru Nanak Sahibs, Bhai Kanhaiya, ...)

* present day situation of Sikhs and problems faced

Try to keep them away from controversial issues though, because these issues have pushed some people from the path of Sikhi in the past.

((This is how I work... Not speaking out of haumai, but it tends to work. ))

Agreed. Seeing the video we can conclude that he didn't mean to offend Sikhs but just 'brushed away' the question. We got lot more serious issues to discuss.

Some real nice suggestions out there, thanks. Good idea with DVDs.

Will look into PDFs soon enough.

It is used to make fun of Sikhs. Sikhan de Barah Baj gaye means Sikhs gone crazy.

This refers to twelve o clock war strategy when Sikhs freed Hindu girl slaves (who were to be sold as sex-slaves in Ghazni and other Arab countries) from Mughals. At twelve o clock, Mughals weren't able to put up a fight against Sikhs because of the sun. From there this "joke" that Sikhs go out of their senses at 12 o clock. Ironically people who 'popularised' these jokes were Hindus themselves, and now even Pakistanis have started using them.

I was standing at jalandhar station when my attention went towards a Sikh youth standing near me wearing a Black turban having a long beard and wearing a kirpan over his shirt looking similar to a terrorist. After a while, one local train arrived, which was totally packed. The Sikh youth tried to alight the train but failed to do so. Just then a voice was heard from the back coach 'Sardarji Barah Baj gaye' The Sikh youth looked over at that voice maker who was a young mischievous type of person and instead of showing any anger made a smile towards him. The smile made was so enigmatic that it seemed as if some type of truth lies behind it.

Not able to resist my temptation, I walked towards him and asked why did he smile at that person who teased him. The Sikh youth replied, 'He was not teasing me but was asking for my Help'. I was surprised with these words and he told me that there was a big history behind that which one should know.

I was eager to know the History and the Sikh youth narrated: During 17th Century, when Hindustan was ruled by Mughals, all the Hindu people were humiliated and were treated like animals. Mughals treated the Hindu women as there own property and were forcing all Hindus to accept Islam and even used to kill the people if they were refusing to accept. At that time, Nadir Shah raided Delhi in the year 1739 and looted Hindustan and was carrying lot of Hindustan treasures and nearly 2200 Hindu women along with him.

The news spread like a fire and was heard by Sardar Jassa Singh who was the Commander of the Sikh army at that time . He decided to attack Nadir Shah's Kafila on the same midnight. He did so and rescued all the Hindu women and they were safely sent to their homes. It didn't happen only once but thereafter whenever any Abdaalis or Iranis had attacked and looted Hindustan and were trying to carry the treasures and Hindu women along with them for selling them in Abdal markets, the Sikh army although fewer in numbers but were brave hearted and attacked them at midnight,12 O'clock and rescued women. After that time when there occurred a similar incidence, people started to contact the Sikh army for their help and Sikhs used to attack the raider's at Midnight, 12 O'clock. It continued and became a known fact that at midnight, nearly at 12 O'clock, it is very difficult to fight against Sikhs as the Sikhs get some Extra Power to save Religion,Nation and Humanity. Nobody can fight and win against them at midnight; this continues till now.

Nowadays, these "smart people" and some Sikh enemies who are afraid of Sikhs, have spread these words that at 12 O'clock, the Sikhs go out of their senses. This historic fact was the reason which made me smile over that person as I thought that his Mother or Sister would be in trouble and wants my help and was reminding me by saying off 'Sardarji Barah Baj Gaye'

A similar topic was created some days ago:

http://www.sikhsanga...barah-baj-gaye/

And for Shahid Afridi, if he really said it, then screw him. He can't get over the fact that he was screwed by team India (which has people from a Sikh background.)

I think it is by Bhai Apardeep Singh, but I don't know where to find it.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bhai+apardeep+singh+simran&aq=f

What about making one, with everything, philosophy, history etc? A set of booklets leading the reader into the ocean of Sikhi.

We need to discuss how many PDFs we got to make (like 10 or so?) and what main points to address.

In my life I have encountered several people from a Sikh background who know little about Sikhi (your typical Punjabi). Usually most have same questions, or if not need to be taught about the same stuff over and over again. Then at times I didn't know how to explain some things.

I am sure that most of you have faced this problem aswell.

Then at other times there were people asking how to convert to Sikhi. Our brothers and sisters usually have answers that leave desires to be fulfilled, so we need answers to that aswell.

What about creating PDFs like Jehovas Witnesses produce Watchtower in more than 400 languages. We could do with fewer languages.

Each pdf would have answers to a set of questions regarding God/world ('why we suffer' etc), FAQ about Sikhi, Sikh history and 'Did you know'.

These PDFs could be printed from one source and distributed to youngsters at Gurudwaras. Being simple and not too big they could help youngsters getting into Sikhi or atleast get nearer to their roots.

Maybe SikhSangat could help in this regard? Any of the Sangat?

I'm in for writing :D

* There is a Video of Manmohan Singh worshipping Shiv Ling (Phallus of Shiva)

* He got all of his daughters married to non-Sikhs (against Sikh Rehat Maryada saying roti beti di saanjh only with fellow Sikhs)

* He told us to forget 1984 and did nothing for Sikh Qaum in that aspect.

Judge for yourselves, he might be a good prime minister for his country, but is he a good Sikh for his Qaum?

Maaroo, First Mehl:

For endless eons, there was only utter darkness.

There was no earth or sky; there was only the infinite Command of His Hukam.

There was no day or night, no moon or sun; God sat in primal, profound Samaadhi. ||1||

There were no sources of creation or powers of speech, no air or water.

There was no creation or destruction, no coming or going.

There were no continents, nether regions, seven seas, rivers or flowing water. ||2||

There were no heavenly realms, earth or nether regions of the underworld.

There was no heaven or hell, no death or time.

There was no hell or heaven, no birth or death, no coming or going in reincarnation. ||3||

There was no Brahma, Vishnu or Shiva.

No one was seen, except the One Lord.

There was no female or male, no social class or caste of birth; no one experienced pain or pleasure. ||4||

There were no people of celibacy or charity; no one lived in the forests.

There were no Siddhas or seekers, no one living in peace.

There were no Yogis, no wandering pilgrims, no religious robes; no one called himself the master. ||5||

There was no chanting or meditation, no self-discipline, fasting or worship.

No one spoke or talked in duality.

He created Himself, and rejoiced; He evaluates Himself. ||6||

There was no purification, no self-restraint, no malas of basil seeds.

There were no Gopis, no Krishna, no cows or cowherds.

There were no tantras, no mantras and no hypocrisy; no one played the flute. ||7||

There was no karma, no Dharma, no buzzing fly of Maya.

Social class and birth were not seen with any eyes.

There was no noose of attachment, no death inscribed upon the forehead; no one meditated on anything. ||8||

There was no slander, no seed, no soul and no life.

There was no Gorakh and no Maachhindra.

There was no spiritual wisdom or meditation, no ancestry or creation, no reckoning of accounts. ||9||

There were no castes or social classes, no religious robes, no Brahmin or Kshatriya.

There were no demi-gods or temples, no cows or Gaayatri prayer.

There were no burnt offerings, no ceremonial feasts, no cleansing rituals at sacred shrines of pilgrimage; no one worshipped in adoration. ||10||

There was no Mullah, there was no Qazi.

There was no Shaykh, or pilgrims to Mecca.

There was no king or subjects, and no worldly egotism; no one spoke of himself. ||11||

There was no love or devotion, no Shiva or Shakti - no energy or matter.

There were no friends or companions, no semen or blood.

He Himself is the banker, and He Himself is the merchant. Such is the Pleasure of the Will of the True Lord. ||12||

There were no Vedas, Korans or Bibles, no Simritees or Shaastras.

There was no recitation of the Puraanas, no sunrise or sunset.

The Unfathomable Lord Himself was the speaker and the preacher; the unseen Lord Himself saw everything. ||13||

When He so willed, He created the world.

Without any supporting power, He sustained the universe.

He created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva; He fostered enticement and attachment to Maya. ||14||

How rare is that person who listens to the Word of the Guru's Shabad.

He created the creation, and watches over it; the Hukam of His Command is over all.

He formed the planets, solar systems and nether regions, and brought what was hidden to manifestation. ||15||

No one knows His limits.

This understanding comes from the Perfect Guru.

O Nanak, those who are attuned to the Truth are wonderstruck; singing His Glorious Praises, they are filled with wonder. ||16||3||15||

(M:1, Maru, 1035)

Too busy earning $$ or ££ and giving their children a 'western education'. (the result of which they see when their kids come home with non-Sikhs or even better, run away with them).

In sikhi philosophy isn't black and white. Guru Nanak Dev Jee recognized that Vaheguroojee is everywhere. Gurujee got rid of the maya so Guru Jee became jot of Vaheguroojee himself. Bhagat Kabeer Jee Bhagat Dhanna Jee all recognized that jot in them. Bhagat Kabeer Ji Bhagat Dhanna Jee and Guru Nanak Dev Jee became Vaheguroojee by meditating on Naam

Thats why their teachings are exactly the same

I disagree Phenji. Guru Nanak Sahib were never a seeker of Sat, they knew it right from their birth. Nor did they have Maya.

First time they uttered Bani, they were 5 years old. At age of 9 they rejected Janeoo.

While other Bhagats were in search of the Truth, and found it in later stages of their lives. On a side note, most of the Bhagats met Guru Nanak Sahib and became his Sikhs (thats why we see usage of Ek Oankar or Gurmukh in Banis of some Bhagats).

Also a 2nd related view... a relative from India recently stated to me that Badal inately supports a sikh homeland but loves his seat more... it would not be politically clever to declare yourself a khalistani as you wont get elected back in...

If he can't speak openly in favor of Khalistan, he still can get anti-Sikh criminals arrested, right? Alas, time to time he has proven to be ANTI-Sikh by letting Sikhs get massacred during his tenure as CM of Punjab.

In 1978 he was in power. Nirankaris killed Sikhs on Vaisakhi, and police helped those Nirankaris. Badal did nothing.

Nowadays, whenever Sikhs protest peacefully, they are fired upon, while others such as Bhaiyya immigrants (from Haryana, UP and Bihar) and Adharmis destroy property worth of thousands of crores yet are not even fired upon.

Sacha Sauda events were stirred by him for political gains (Gurmit Ram Rahim was supporting Congress).

Has he done anything to stop Derewadis insulting Sikhi? Deredaars attacking Sikhs?

He is a sell-out.

Southall Youth, even after taking amrit, they are not allowed in Gurdwaras in some areas.

I agree that this is a Hindutva conspiracy to weaken/destroy Sikhs.

I hate to admit it, but the above post is right. Many Sikhs outside want a Khalistan, while only a handful want it in Punjab. It is due to the government pumping drugs and alcohol into Punjab to screw the youth/even elders. On the other side the Bibian are taken care of by Deras. This way youth are unaware of Sikhi, their past and Khalistan. I'd say that about 90% of Doaba youth is now cleanshaven. I have seen that most youth come to know about that after coming to here. The only people that knew of this were from Majha area. Maybe it is due to the fact that Majha was the area that suffered most (Tarn Taran, Gurdaspur, etc)

Only mistake in your post is that the migrants are Biharis. Actually of the 1 million migrants, only 200,000 are from Bihar. Rest are from Uttar Pradesh and Haryana. But when speaking we do club all of them togheter under the term Bhaiya.

There are many solutions to our problems, but nobody is willing to listen. Everyone is busy in their own lives.

1. By sending even 2 dedicated GurSikhs per village, we could get 5-15 youth interested into Sikhi by some hardcore parchaar.

2. The influx of these Bhaiya immigrants can be stopped? How ? There are more than 2 million poor Sikhs living UNDER the poverty line in other states (tribal Sikhs), why don't they rehabilitate them to Punjab? Instead our organisations (the very few that work for them in the first place), build them houses and gurdwaras in their states, which is kind of unnecessary if it can be solved in another way.

I am seeing this disturbing trend of a new sense of 'self-respect' and 'Chamar Chauvinism' amongst these Ravidassis. First it was Putt Chamara De songs, then they wouldn't like to be called Sikhs but a seperate Qaum. And now this... UNACCEPTABLE.

Some of it is caused by the Jatt supremacy over other 'castes' in Punjab for decades. Not letting them enter 'their' Gurudwaras, not giving them Parshad etc, but what they are doing won't be tolerated.

If this continues this way, Ravidasia religion will become the third major religion in Punjab with devasting effects for Sikhs (Sikhs becoming a huge minority - altough now we don't have many true Sikhs in Punjab, we still are a slight majority in figures, but even that will be gone).

This ought to be stopped, especially if we preach the fact that Bhagat Ravidas was a Sikh of Guru Nanak Sahib.

(I once tried talking to a Ravidasia (not Sikh), and referred to Bhagat Ravidas as Bhagat, he straightly told me that I had to use Guru for Bhagat Ravidas, else he won't talk.)

On a side note, the guys taking Nishan Sahib down should be executed.