ub1

The meeting in Southall is today between 2-4pm at the Sikh Missionary Society

Why not at the Singh Sabha Gurdwara locations on Park Avenue and Havelock Road ?

Saddest thing is the family didnt have the money to bring their own son's body back to Panjab.

I think we (UK sangat) let our selves down badly on this one.

Hope Waheguru Blesses the family with strength to accept His Will.

Does anybody know if Singh Sabha, Southall offered to assist them ?

hay, no need to speculate, i saw what happened in dudley myself,

ahh so west london, you boys all live in shed's on teh fight path to heathrow, so the cheap seats of london town, and all work at the airport as cleaners,

atleast the people of dudley are hard working and have time for each other.

you londoners dont even speak to each other with a smile, its always why u speaking to me! and you talk about poverty.

when you develop some warmth for another person in the world then speak ,

Southall is not a good place to live. I know.

Many of the so called Punjabi youth are on drugs and the girls just goto Ealing for a bit of Gora and then hangout with mummy and daddy at HAvelock Road on the Sunday morning. True I'm sure it happens in other regions but not to this scale.

** Mod edit: long quoted reply removed **

I personally avoid tabloid newspapers, they have negative effect on spiritual jeevan, just full of celebrity gossip and whatnot.

you what ? reading a tabloid messes with ones spirtual jeevan ! Ok.

West London Singh,

Whilst your command of the english language is superior and blessed by Guru Ji, I am not. It is evident you are not from the gallows of UB1 but perhaps W5 or even SW7 !!!

I unequivocally, absolutely, unreservedly disagree with you !

West Midlands Police is not the stupidest constabulary in England Wales -the Metropolitan Police is !

I must correct you on this point -the apnae, in the Met are the worst !

raaaas !

i was initially and till I read s50's entry (which I have no reason not to beleive) has got me vexxed.

Appears cops where heavy handed, is Satkaar telling the cops how they perpetuaded the violence -there is no need for yanking a singhs beard.

benti to all to upload vid asap...

Yes. If you live in Basingstoke.

By the way......a question mark looks like this : ? Try not to confuse it with an exclamation mark.

When the Dudley gurdwara supporters club were looking for a volunteer to come on here and argue the cause....were you really the best they could find ?

I'm not a dudley supporter.

Thank you for the English and Cultural Studies lecture -noted and respected.

I am a Greenford High School Alumini and English is like a 'D' grade at GCSE. I am not blessed like you West London Singh (probably middle class, privately educated, lives in Holland Park).

Dont rip me bro, i am doing the best with the intelligence the guru has given me.

I agree dalsingh if Sikh channel did that then they are no longer a letimate media service for the British Sikh community and will lose credibility big time as this incident will always be used against them from now on. However if any hot heads did go to the protest for the sole purpose of being violent and were prepared to use violence without being attacked or physically provoked then they should get booked for what they did. We dont need mindless thugs who cant control themselves ruining important campaigns for respect.

What we need is footage from the incident to see what happened. That way truth can come out, there is a video on youtube that shows the singhs and kaurs protesting peacefully....what is missing is what kicked off the alleged violence. And remember no point incriminating yourselves for those who were there, unless you can prove you were attacked first and your actions were in self defence then you will have the support of the vast majority of the British Sikh community through and through no matter what.

well put genie -100% agree.

No internet rumour mate, because it started through a phone call, lol!

Some people out there may keep their head in the sand! But let me reassure you the person who gave the intel doesn't, but don't take my word for it. Just wait till someone with a better reputation on this forum does with some concrete evidence.

Yes they can when they say they haven't got any evidence left because they got rid of the recordings! Ha, never heard of the situation where there been a robbery at the local store and the shopkeeper has beaten the robber senseless only to say he hasn't turned the CCTV recorder on when actually he did but got rid of it. Some people just live their lives wrapped in cotton wool.

If they wanted that for their own intelligence instead of wasting tax payers money on helicopters recording from the sky, maybe the incumbent police should of got a bobby with a camera running around the place, o wait they have Sikh Channel for that, lol!

Whatever.

Time to watch some sangat tv.

If that is him on facebook, he deleted that post and many of the others posted in response to it.

Plus a little birdie just told me that the Sikh Channel have given the video footage over to the POLICE. Always remember Sikh Channel, Pride of the Panth! Yeh EFFing right!

Sangat TV and Sikh TV both declined the police's request as all parties agreed that no charges will be made or upheld on either party as per signed statement, rightly so!

Thats probably why he has no problem with the Police pulling Singh's beards and knocking their turbans off either.

Im not a fan of sikh channel but may I remind these silly internet rumours, that not even sangat tv or sikh tv can withhold evidence from the police (obstructing the cause of justice). Further, this is a public order offence, doesnt matter if the gurdwara committewalia want to press charges or not. The police would want all video evidence for their own intelligence.

Grow up.

the problem with sikh channel is that it is coordinated by a bunch of novices on little money who couldnt care less about anything... the onlyu reason they showed this was so as to incrrease viewer ratings...again this leads me onto my mool mantra of this forum - reform reform reform....if the same sort of thing happened in muslim community would their channels show a biased picture of events. weve got donkeys running gurdwara's wee got donkeys running the media we got hundreds of different donkey groups in india, the chardikala singh/singhnees need to get together and be properly organised and efficient..all youth start attending your local gurdwara every evening be their and arrange meetings and work from there

agree sikh channel dont give a hoot !

satkaar need to get more organised and get more youth involved on a bigger/ slicker/ peaceful stage.

what the hell, does everyone expect the satkaar group to do everything while we sit here criticizing them...its every sikhs duty to strive for the implementation of our Guru's teachings

hot head pal07, is it too much to ask what satkaar group campaign about, how they prioritise their workload/ demand, what their strategy is ?

if satkaar group is a vehicle to enforce the teachings of the guru, then i for one would like to know more about them and when is it just to throw bricks and fight with the police ?

bal chuk maaf .

I have to add, they do seem to have focused on their girls with quite a positive effect (from their perspective). Aside from a few black sheep, their kurian generally don't have a reputation for being promiscuous or 'easy' and generally stick to their own. When they do go 'outside', they usually convert the bloke in anycase, or turn him into a symphathiser at the very least.

agree. muslim girls are muslim first (and foremost).

Many sikh girls are (indian, punjabi, british-sikh, brown, etc) never Sikh first (not forgetting the guys).

Thank you SarabhaPanajb for your response.

Surely all Sandesh's are important and the Satkaar Group shouldnt been seen 'cherry picking' easy enforcements of the many equally important Sandesh's.

I went to my local Gurdwara (Singh Sabha, Havelock Road) and on two occasions (one in late March 2011 and the other 2 weeks ago) asked the management committee (Johal and Sohi respectively on the two occasions) about why they provide tables for langar as well as a seating area on the floor. I was told I dont understand Sikh politics and have a choice on whether to have langar at a table or on the floor. I mentioned the Sandesh of Sri Akal Takht Sahib and on both occasions the old men just walked off without responding.

What other campaigns are the SAtkaar Group taking on -can they prioritize them ?

We need a co-ordinated campaign, not some random singh, alone doing his spasmodic thing for the panth -yo get me ?

PS: I maybe wrong, but why would I care about the paraatan maryada, when I have everything I need in the Akal Takht maryada ?

Will Satkaar Group also advocate (and enforce) the Sandesh of Sri Akal Takht Sahib re: having langar on the floor versus on tables ?

I personally think the Daily Mail does not have a leftist agenda. Their opinion pieces from the likes of Richard Littlejohn, Peter Hitchens, Jan Moir, etc., are heavily right-leaning. If they leant any further to the right, they'd go all the way around to the left! One only has to peruse their comments section to understand the mindset of their readership. Although I guess most comments sections on newspaper sites will attract those who know they can say whatever they like under the cover of anonymity. Even the supposed darling publication of the left-wing intelligentsia, The Guardian, has some particularly vitriolic reader comments underneath their articles on occasions.

Everyone's prejudiced once you scratch the surface, left or right. To hold up the left as some kind of beacon for tolerance and equality is laughable. They have their own agenda which some might argue is as damaging to society as the ideals of the right.

well articulated. agreed.

You articulate a moral dilema (for my limited prowness as a Greenford High School alumi) - are there any british newspapers the average sikh should read given the daily mail's imperialist slant ?

i am intrigued on this british bank holiday, can a community be right wing -for example, can a person whose faith is sikh vote conservative ?

This reminds of norman tebbits cricket test !

As for your mind boggles -I would suggest simran.

Here's a little tip for you UB1 : Stand facing north. The bits to the west of you will be your 'left' and the bits to the east of you will be to your 'right'. Just thought I'd help you out a bit....You've been showing signs of not knowing your lefts from your rights all day. Or.......perhaps you really were the only man in England that didn't know the Daily Mail was a right wing paper. In which case you should get out more.

north is slough -right !

Anyone who preoccupies themselves with vilifying and constantly lamenting foreigners are right wing to me. Maybe not to the extent of the BNP, but they are barking up up similar trees. One just has more teeth/bite than the other. The middle classes being averse to actually engaging in violence themselves, instead help create the very atmosphere that fosters hate and resentment with their vitriol, which the proletariat act on.

You call that Daily Mail coverage balanced. You're having a larf. Look at how they jump straight into the usual vocabulary if 'militant' 'extreme' blah blah blah despite the fact that you get infinitely more violence at football matches all the time.

dalisingh, you appear to be the literary type.

my previous post did not elude in any semantic or lexical form known to this civilisation that 'the daily mail is BALANCED.

its media, they are going to sensationalise events -do you beleive every word the bbc or des pardes say ?

well put -well done satkaar.

there will always be some loonies out there.

It is perfectly fine and unbiased broadcasting negative aspects as long as they are in context. We have a situation where party goers were openly antagonising and challenging the protestors. A party goers approached Singhs making very insulting and provacative remarks including insulting kes. This all took place in a young asian officers presence. I pleaded with the officer to take the party goer away being as it was him causing the problem, however the officer clearly didn't have an idea what the protest was about and just targeted the Singhs. A party goer spat on a Singh's dastar. Police were heavy handed in some situations but in the absence of the committee members playing ball, they had others options at hand were not exercised. Additionally the hall is the sangats so the Police had no right to prevent access to anyone.

If you know anything about the law, the police have the right and means to precent access if they beleive a criminal act is about/ has occured.

Disturbance of the peace, GBH, Assault, public order charges mean the singhs can face jail anything between a week to 3 years. Probably, 3 months I reckon.

The funny thing about the Daily Mail article posted earlier is, there is a link at the bottom to say prison costs more than a 5 star hotel in some instances.

Just so people know.

The Daily Mail (also affectionately known as the 'Daily Hate') is a right wing, WASPcentric, anti foreigner newspaper which is surprisingly popular in Britain.

It's like an educated, angry, frustrated (mainly at foreigners and the demise of the British empire) Anglo-Saxon's publication of choice.

Its actually a very middle to left popular newspaper.

Its definitely not right wing in the slightest.

Why are Satkaar Group selecting their campaigns against beadbi ???

There are so many other places where maryada and anti-Gurmat practices are being promoted. For example, Anand Karaj of non-Sikhs at Gurdwarae -Havelock Road, Southall (largest Gurdwara outside of India) openly allows this ????? Where are the Satkaar Group -to scared to get fisted by Sohi's army !?

Another thing, makes Sikhs seems like a group of thugs in the western media -they dont know masa rangar, hoozer sahib, sant saphi concept -two wrongs do not make a right !

Still look on the bright side, those convicted will be sent to Winson Green prison in Birmingham (for about 3 months) and then transfered to either Wormwood scrubs or the other near Peterbrough -hope their loved ones can travel to see them for the 1-2 hours every 2 weeks.

The management committee have lost the plot here !

Speed dating/ offering a matrimonial service: great and needed. well done

Allowing anyone to marry to the Anand Karaj (if they can afford the fee): not right !

Maryada clearly states a Sikh can only marry another Sikh. Southall Gurdwara clearly allows mixed ethnic group marriages which is against Maryada.

Dasam Granth is part and parcel of sikhism for over 300 years. Just because a bought out man, who himself had been doing kirtan

from Dasam Granth, is making noise to misguide ignorant sikhs, it does not become a disputed scriture.

On Feb 5 Darshan singh Ragi has attacked bani of SGGS ji and sikh ardas also. Does that too become also a disputed scripture?

No not at all. We cann't bow to whims of such anti sikh persons who change tune out of greed.

This is a propaganda and we should counter it. With Waheguru's blessings this will fade out.

http://patshahi10.or...glish&Itemid=63

Guru-mata - Sir John Malcolm (1812 AD)

Maharaja Ranjit Singh listening to the two sacred Granths being recited near Sri Harimandir Sahib.

(A Painting by August Theodore Schoefft (1809-1888), made in Amritsar. From Princess Bamba Collection)

Note: The following is an excerpt from a book, Sketch of the Sikhs, a singular nation in the province of Penjab,written by Sir John Malcolm* in 1812. John Malcolm's work is one of the rarest firsthand information recorded by a western historian on the lifestyle, belief systems and traditions of the Sikhs in Punjab during the 18^th century .

Guru-mata

When Gurmata or great national council, is called, (as it always is, or ought to be, when any imminent danger threatens the country, or any large expedition is to be undertaken) all the Sikh chiefs assemble at Amritsar. The assembly, which is called the Guru-mata, is convened by the Acalis; and when the chiefs meet upon this solemn occasion, it is concluded that all private animosities cease, and that every main sacrifices his personal feelings at the shrine of the general good; and, actuated by principles of pure patriotism, thinks of nothing but the interests of the religion, and commonwealth, to which he belongs. When the chiefs and principal leaders are seated, the Adi-Granth and Dasama Padshah ka Granth are placed before them. They all bend their heads before these scriptures, and exclaim, Wa! Guruji ka Khalsa! Wa! Guruji ki Fateh! A great quantity of cakes, made of wheat, butter, and sugar, are then placed before the volumes of their sacred writings, and covered with a cloth. These holy cakes, which are in commemoration of the injunction of Nanac, to eat and to give to others to eat, next receive the salutation of the assembly, who then rise, and the Acalis pray aloud, while the musicians play. The Acalis, then the prayers are finished, desire the council to be seated. They sit down, and the cakes being uncovered, are eaten of by all classes of Sikhs: those distinctions of original tribes, which are, on occasions, kept up, being on this occasion laid aside, in token of their general and complete union in one cause. The Acalis then exclaim: "Sirdars! (Chiefs) this is Guru-mata!" on which prayers are again said aloud. The chiefs, after this sit closer, and say to each other: "The sacred Granth is betwixt us, let us swear by our scripture to forget all internal disputes, and to be united." This moment of religious fervor and ardent patriotism, is taken to reconcile all animosities. They then proceed to consider the danger with whcih they are threatened, to settle the best plans for averting it, and to choose the generals who are to lead their armies against the common enemy. The first Guru-mata was assembled by Guru Govinid; and the latest was called in 1805, when the British army pursued Holkar into the Penjab. (pages. 120-123) ________________________

*Sir John Malcolm (May 2, 1769 ‑ 1833) was a Scottish soldier, statesman, and historian. He held various distinguished posts, being Ambassador to Persia, Resident of Gwalior (1803-1804) and Governor of Bombay 1827-1830. He was the author of several valuable works regarded as authorities, viz., Sketch of the Sikhs, a singular nation in the province of Penjab (1812), A History of Persia (1815), Memoir of Central India(1823), Political History of India from 1784 to 1823 (1826), and Life of Lord Clive (1836)

Its all very well having historic pictures and text however, the Hukunama of Sri Akal Takht Sahib dated June 6th 2008 (no:a:3/08/3143) clears the confusion once and for all.

Unless we dont believe in the Hukanama of Sri Akal Takht Sahib and know better.

Your choice...