NamoSarab

With the greatest of respect... just shut up. The Singh wants to sell his vaja, what's it to anyone? You wanna buy a vaja, let him know. If you don't then, then just keep out of it. What is it with people always trying to put others down over the stupidest of things? Maybe deep down he wants to keep the vaja, but with extortionate uni fees and high costs of living, he needs a little extra cash to get by and its a hurtful compulsion that he has to sell his vaja? Think before you comment.

You can wear really small kirpans on planes and get away with it. But yeah, this is where your rehat comes into play. Some panj pyaareh would say don't eat or drink anything (apart from water) on a plane without your kirpan, some panj pyaareh would tell you it's ok. Myself, I believe my Guru is loving and compassionate, and if I am hungry or thirsty on a plane, he would not want me to starve myself until I got off the plane! If my baggage got lost and I was in a foreign country where theres no Sikhs or any Gurdwaras, does that mean I am going to starve myself until death whilst waiting for someone to ship me a kirpan?! As someone above said, being tyaar bar tyaar means being aware of your surroundings at all times and ready to use those surroundings to get out of any situation and knowing that everything around you can be used a potential weapon. You just have to have the training for it. Your karaa... a pen.... even a piece of paper can be used as a weapon if you know how to. Shaster vidhiya is not just about swords and sticks, it covers how to use day to day objects to your advantage along with hand-to-hand combat.

Don't be quick to label all 3HO and SikhNet members as "white" Sikhs because it is so disrespectful. Guru Nanak Dev Jee would be so upset to hear Sikhs labelling others by the colour of their skin. There are many "white" skinned Sikhs who didn't come into Sikhi through 3HO and what not, so don't disrespect them in such a way.

That will be really hard to watch but will try to. Who was the criminal? Has he been caught? Can such people be rehabilitated?

I don't feel this is an "attack" on katha, more just a discussion and this is, afterall, a discussion forum.

Yep, I agree with the above. Panj Pyaare are exactly what their titles say - they are pyaareh. They will give you not judge you on your mistakes and punish you, but they will give you tankaah and you should accept it, whatever it may be. It could be as simple as being told to recite certain baniyaa a number of times... or more "difficult", depending on the kurehit that has been commited, it could be to go infront of sangat and beg for forgiveness. There are more "difficult" tankaah's that Panj Pyaareh give than that too but let's not go into that. Main thing to realize is Panj Pyaareh don't punish you. Go humbly, don't spread what the Panj Pyaareh tell you (unless they tell you to) and keep it gupt. Do it for the sake of actually seeking forgiveness from Guru Sahib for sins commited and not to show people, as some do. It's a personal thing that is between you and your Guru and keep it as so.

Thank you for your advice, I will take that on board. I know he should be exposed to his wife and all but... I can't break someones heart and a family. I know it's weak of me but I am using that as a real last resort. There's just been so many similar cases that have happened similar to this and it makes me think that when I was younger, I used to think people having affairs, especially in our community, was so rare and if you did hear of anything it would disgust me so much... but now, having lived a longer life, I realize how wrong I was about it being so rare... and it's quite upsetting when that realization kicks in. Kaljug is certainly showing it's dark side. Sorry to go on about it. Thanks for your advice again all.

Beautiful and so true.

I agree but I feel Katha is important too. Even in Gurbani, Katha is mentioned on numerous occasions. Infact (maybe I am reading into this too much) but when Gurbani mentions Katha and Kirtan, Katha appears before Kirtan. I don't know if that has any significance, but it reminds me of the way the five vices are ordered... Kaam, Krodh, Lobh, Moh and Hunkaar. Someone once said that this is written in this order because it begins with the most hardest to master to the more easier ones. ਕਥਾ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਆਨੰਦ ਮੰਗਲ ਧੁਨਿ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹੀ ਦਿਨਸੁ ਅਰੁ ਰਾਤਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ The Lord's Sermon, the Kirtan of His Praises and the songs of bliss perfectly resonate, day and night. ||1||Pause||

I agree with the above but just because it is hard to do so, doesn't mean it is the right thing to do to just shy away. This is why we have many problems in Sikhi, that people are too afraid to stand up and speak the truth BUT this is wrong - justice should be served and the right way too. Sangat will not look down on those who have been wronged (the victims), they will blame those that are guilty (the criminals). As wrong as it may sound, if victims don't come forward and do the right thing, then really they haven't got a leg to stand on, no matter how difficult it is for them. You have to come forward to let justice be served. Until this has been addressed properly in the correct manner, those that are "airing the dirty laundry" in public are guilty of slander. Courts do issue ASBO's (Anti Social Behaviour Orders) to individuals who are being a nuisance. At least get an ASBO against them if they harming others, and then come out in public and expose them!

Good call by Admin. I don't get it though - these people claim there has been some physical and psychological abuse of people... but if so, why are individuals taking this into their own hands? We pay taxes, we employee the police to handle such matters. They should be the ones "collecting evidence" and so forth. If there's such a grave concern here, the authorities should be involved. This just looks like a personal issue here that someone(s) are trying to turn into some big panthic deal. Do yourselves a favour, get the police onto it and have them convicted or cautioned IF they are guilty. People will automatically stay away from them if that's what should happen, when the stories come out in the papers and so forth. Write to Watchdog! Anyone tarnishing Sikhi for their own gain should be exposed, but given a chance to tell their side of the story as well by neutral parties, such as the police. If there is concrete (and I mean CONCRETE) proof that the couple are guilty of such allegations, then yes something should definitely be done about them. By the sounds of it, you have the proof and testimonials of people so why not take it to the authorities? Sorry if this offends anyone.

Thank you jee. You know, I have tried to that extent too. She claims that she loves him and is attached to him, which she knows is wrong. She believes Gurbani doesn't mention that it's wrong to love someone, regardless of whether they are married or not! But she knows the attachment side of things is wrong but she "can't help it". I believe this Singh has got to her quite a bit psychologically. From her side, lust is not the factor, it's her emotions which she needs to control again. He has a hold of her.

Gurfateh jee I am in need of some help from some learned Sikhs. I recently came across a situation of a young adult amrit dhaari girl who is having an affair with an older married Singh who is also a father of a young child. Everything I try to do to explain the to the girl how wrong it is doesn't seem to be getting through. I really could do with some tukks or saakhis from Gurbani or Sikh history to help her realize she is doing wrong. She is a nice person but this elder Singh, who should know better and is well-known in a certain jatha circle, just has no shame. We have tried to warn him and he agreed to stop talking to her... but we know for a fact he still does. He is in a foreign country and theres not much I can do to him or say to him as he is one of those "sweet-talking" guys. But I believe with the right guidance and advice, I can reach out to this girl. What would you guys say to this girl? (Apart from swearing and hurling abuse!) I know she wrong, I know she deserves grave punishment, but Maharaj will give that to her when the time is right. At this time, I just want to steer her in the right direction. Please help