DailyMail

Am I right in thinking the gentleman has yet to come forward to the police?

Caste is a load of bull. I know so many married across the "caste-divide" - after a few years not even the families initially opposed to the union give a damn!

Sorry, you're correct. I thought this was the thread about jatt and chamar marriage on the other section Apologies.

JSinghnz,

The Ravidaasia community have elevated Bhagat Ravidass Ji to the status of Guru Ravidass Ji. In otherwords, with the inclusion of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, there would be 12 guru's in total. This is incompatible with Sikhi.

Jagsaw is absolutely correct here. If the chap is a Sikh, then no issue. If, like a subsection of the chamaar community, he is a ravidaasia, then I can understand there is an issue.

As Sikhs, we respect all the bhagats from all the communities. But we don't accord the status of a guru to any of them, and I say this as a julaha.

Circulate the images of these kids around the Greater Toronto Area Gurdwara's and round up their parents for questioning. Present their parents to the sangat and ask them: why have you failed in your capacity as parents to teach your children the value of a dastaar?

How dare these so-called Brampton youth attack the dastaar. Who do they think they are?

Jagsaw,

Your correct. Any Sikh who even dreamed of trimming their beard was court marshalled. It was a disciplinary offence.

StarStriker,

That Vijay was deluded. He didn't fully understand the dynamics of the Indian Mutiny. Before the British arrived, The Sikh Kingdom was a sovereign nation and the Sikhs were a sovereign people. Being a nation, the Sikhs would choose to act in their own self-interest, and not what was in the self-interest of India per se. It was in the Sikhs best interest to side with the British - to not do so would let the Moghuls in through the back door, such was the disparity in numbers between the Sikhs and non-Sikhs.

imhosingh,

The Sikhs have successfully and legally argued that they are a separate race and ethnic group. Mandla v Lee, 1981. To this effect, separate regiments for the Scots, Irish, Welsh etc have existed for centuries within the British Army. The Sikh Regiment would be one other regiment.

The Hindu's, Muslim's and Christians on the other hand are religious groups and religious only. The only other group to have argued that they are a separate race are the Jews. Therefore, there are no grounds upon which a separate Muslim regiment could be raised, in my opinion.

Jagsaw,

I am equally baffled as to why so many Sikhs are doing the job of the Indian govt for them.

British Sikhs should strive to be at the highest positions in all aspects of public life - journalism, the police, the military, medicine, law etc. Our aspirations should be to contribute in all sectors of society - including politics.

Sikhs in visible military positions will instil values which are complementary to good role models. Leadership skills, so often lacking in our community, are to be learned on the battlefield, which may one day be the making of a future politician, cabinet minister or a captain of industry in another field.

Personally, I'd bring back national service.

Fantastic news.

Unfortunately, this idea was disbanded after Sir Trevor Phillips, the then head of the CRE (Commission for Racial Equality) suggested it may lead to accusations of racism. He was wrong.

It is interesting and ironic to note that it is the former Conservative Defence Minister Sir Nicholas Soames who is urging his fellow ministers and the MoD to raise a Sikh Regiment. It was his grandfather, Sir Winston Churchill, who had heaped lavish praise upon the martial skills of the Sikhs 65 years ago.

Listening to the BBC Asian Network debate with Nihal, I was disappointed to hear that most of the Sikhs including the normally articulate Jagraj Singh come up stuck against the diatribe that was dished out by those opposing such a regiment. Furthermore, Nihal and other caller's in to the show couldn't quite grasp the fact that whilst Sikhs may have fewer contributors to the world wars compared to muslim's and hindu's, they were over-represented due to their small numbers in the population as a whole. As a percentage or fraction of the population as a whole, Sikhs were far over represented.

The fact is, regiments will demand uniformity. Attaching isolated Sikhs in various companies or regiments means lack of uniformity. A separate Sikh regiment will require all Sikhs to wear a turban and therefore look the same. It's part of the uniform and uniforms help instil discipline and order. This was not mentioned. I wish I could have called in but I couldn't get through and thereafter I was busy.

With us Sikhs its about quality not quantity.

I should however, also mention, that it is Paul Uppal MP and Sir Soames MP - two conservative politicians who are urging the MoD. Is this the tories trying to appease the Sikhs over the 1984 debacle I wonder?

Jagsaw,

I know you hate my profile name (lol), but If I lived in your constituency, I would vote for you if you stood for election! I gather from your WLS days that you have a legal background. Coupled with the general knowledge and your real-life experience, you would make an interesting alternative to the career politicians that we have been accustomed to from all parties.

West London politics, in particular with the Labour party, has been a rather peculiar affair in the last 10 years.Throw in Tony Litt (Avtar's son) and a few other rich business men from the Southall Ealing area, and a garden party in Chiswick at the home of Avtar Litt (Sunrise), and bob's your uncle, you have the makings of a bollywood film. Gurcharan Singh, the former labour councillor and subsequent Mayor of Ealing, switched from a red turban to a blue turban as a protest to the Labour Party for not selecting a turban-wearing prospective parliamentary candidate (PPC). Thereafter, Gurcharan was paraded by the tories as their man in Southall. This is despite Gurcharan Singh never supporting the tories in the previous 30 years. Things looked pretty desperate.

My point is, as much as I sympathise with Gurcharan, and indeed your point too. But to be a member and a PPC of a party, one must genuinely have a conviction for the philosophy, policies and ethos of that party. It's not good enough just to be a poster boy for a party on the basis of a turban. Dr Jasdev Singh Rai tried that about 5 years ago, remember? He received a handful of votes. His manifesto was basically, "Sikhs should vote for me, because I have a turban and by default, I am the man for them". He was laughed at by turban-wearing Sikhs of Southall and beyond. He subsequently went on to become the Akal takht Jathedar's representative in the UK and a general secretary of the (one of the two) British Sikh Consultative Forum. 99% Sikhs are suspicious of him. But that's another story.

The Sikhs need a MP to be a champion for their causes. Look at Hayes and Harlington. John McDonnell MP. The last I looked, he doesn't wear a turban. If a Sikh chap comes along and happens to wear a turban, that's all fine and dandy. But lets not be a pawn in someones elses game. Gurcharan did, look where it got him.

Furthermore, there's nothing stopping Sikhs from representing non-Sikh areas. Parmjit Dhanda (from Southall) represented Gloucester under Tony Blair. Many Jews represent areas's with few if any Jews.

Just my thoughts....

I second the Nagra series.

In reference to the claim above by mrggg, I had heard that there are many inter-faith marriages in Canada from others. I haven't been myself but that's that I had been told.

Badal and his clan will go down in history in the same breath and sentence as Indira Gandhi. Only, a lot worse. Indira Gandhi managed to destroy the Vatican of the Sikhs. Badal has managed to systematically destroy the soul and anakh of the Sikhs. Indira placed the noose around the neck of the Sikh's. Badal has spent three decades tightening that very noose. Thank's mostly to Badal, not entirely, Sikhs are gulaam and most of them them don't even know it.

Jagsaw,

One doesn't require qualified teacher status (QTS) to teach in a private school. A qualification in the subject you wish to teach is all that is required. A pgce or equivalent is required in public schools.

A "Sudan part two" could be unfolding before our very eyes. North and south divided by Christianity and Islam.

Not even a middle-class urban elite hashtag#

This is about the role and responsibility of the media. But in the day and age of social media and the citizen journalist, it is ultimately about the responsibility of the individual too.

Paapi9,

Why can't the Guru Granth Sahib Ji be that teacher that you refer to?

Jacfsing2,

Be careful when judging the French government with respect to the Sikhs. Don't forget, when Sardar HS Malik, a Oxford University student, wasn't eligible to be commissioned into the British army because he was 'Indian', the French Air Force accepted him with open arms. He was an ambulance driver in the French Croix Rouge. Much to the embarrassment of his Oxford tutors, who pulled a few strings with the RAF and the rest as they say is history.

Remember, the west (or Europe, at least) believes that religion is there to be ridiculed. They, the west, have every right to offend. You, the muslim/Sikh/Jew etc - have every right to be offended. They themselves acknowledge this much.

Freedom of speech is limited by law: we can't be racist, libellous, defamatory etc - there are laws in place (in the UK). Therefore, freedom of expression in it's entirety is not guaranteed.

On the other hand, we have films like The Life of Brian, banned by most local authorities in the UK for 25 years.

It's a difficult balancing act.

Just to top it off, for those from the UK, thanks to protection from the race relations act 1976, Sikhs and Jews are protected by law from such insults anyway. No other faith group has such protection.

Jagsaw,

I was thinking exactly that. As I watched the news, I recalled those posts on here a few months ago!

But I think the difference here is, in yesteryear, local authorities and governments were struggling with integrating groups along ethnic and racial lines. What you have now is Saudi Arabian funded wahhabi islamist ideology coupled with social deprivation, unemployment, disenfranchised youth and cultural disconnection. All it takes is a charismatic imaam to brainwash these lost souls and you have and the security services have a nightmare on their hands,

The paper regularly targets the Jewish and Catholic community. yet they didn't react in this way.

Isingh,

You've raised a very pertinent point indeed. Paedophile rings involving Westminster with Scotland yard cover-up show that the Thatcher government was about as trust worthy as Robert Maxwell was with your pension.

It'll be interesting what further papers will be released this year with regards to the 1985 Air India case off the coast of Ireland.