jashb

Bhai Mohar Singh was of Brahman caste, whereas Master Tara Singh was a Khatri.

Chalo fer, sadde jihe pindooan nu ehna kee patha "jaat a paat a" baare...

Nahin bohta farak rakhna chahida...

Kyon bei? Sehi a ke na, paaji?!!! :biggrin2:

__________________________________________________________________

Anyway, thanks for clearing that up.

That post above was a bit of a waste anyway, I was just trying to embed the video from youtube, but it seems like it won't get work from my mobile.

[On a side note; You do know your hindu castes well don't you! I remember you corrected me another thread about the background of Mehra caste too (Shaheed Baba Moti Ram Ji). Ved purana parre hain? Don't answer that!]

My point is that no one cares about their background once they came fully into Sikhi, it became irrelevant.

Like it's not as if we start recalling the original hindu castes of any of the Panj Pyare every time their name comes up, and it's the same for Master Ji.

Peace.

We all know about Master Ji's background.

But no one has cared to mention it so far.

Why???

__________________________________________________________________

Well, for one, because it is the same background as that of the famous Kattar Khalistani Shere Kharkoo Singh; Shaheed Baba Mohar Singh Jee (Pandit), and his entire immediate and extended family;

Young Kaurs, six and eight years old, that destroyed the dirty, invading, Indian tanks as they arrogantly roamed around the parikarma of Sri Harmandir Sahib; defending Darbar Sahib, saying "how dare they defy the sanctity of Sri Harmandir Sahib; how dare they bring tanks onto the pathway of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji"!

http://frontlinepunjabiyouth.blogspot.com/2008/06/whole-family-gives-shaheedi.html?m=1

.

"Unlike our lot in the UK , who can't decide internally whether they are Sikh or "Punjabi" [/size]

A lot of our people think it means the same thing.

LOL.

The original sher-e-panjab are partly to blame for this.

It would be foolish to ignore the influence of S.P. on young Sikhs in the Sikh populated areas like Handsworth, Smethwick, Southall, Slough, East London; as it was, and possibly always will be, by far, the most successful Sikh-Identity reinforcing movement in the UK since our community moved here.

__________________________________________________________________

The S.P. elders would continually refer to members of our community as "Panjabi", in clear spite of 99% of the evidence pointing to us, being in actual fact, Sikh.

(This hypocritical thinking still translates itself, even today, in 2013, into stupid, nonsensical, bhangra music, exclusively produced by, and listened to, by Sikhs, for Sikhs, yet, unsurprisingly, "pimped out" by a Pak Muslim record label owner (

That reinforces an imaginary "Punjabi" identity that had never existed, and certainly didn't in 1947 when our "Punjabi brothers" showed exactly how "Punjabi" us kaffirs to be.)

As opposed to members of their community, who would be unambiguously referred to as "muslim" or "islamic".

Why the ambiguity in only the way our community is described???

__________________________________________________________________

The hypocrisy is clear to see.

Our community (Sikh), was defined by the language our elders speak; in spite of the clear fact that we can only a muster a mere 15-20% minority of worldwide Panjabi speakers.

And yet, their community (Pak Muslim), was defined by the corrupt, decadent, mish-mash of pre-historic pagan belief systems that they practice; in spite of the clear fact that they form a mere 20-25% minority of worldwide Muslims.

And, all the while; we know that the Pak Muslim community forms the clear majority of Panjabi speakers in the UK; let alone worldwide.

__________________________________________________________________

Now, here's the problem.

When you define yourself as "Panjabi", how do you differentiate yourself, in the eyes of a fourteen-year old Sikh child, from the Lahori Punjabi or Mirpuri Kashmiri (Pak Muslim) community, that forms the majority in your neighbourhood???

You both speak Punjabi, although theirs is a bit different; and you have a common colour, race, features, look...

So, in your eyes, they are your fellow "Punjabis". (Although, in their eyes, you are the f'n worst type of enemy kaffir).

__________________________________________________________________

Do you really expect a fourteen-year old Sikh child, to recognise how important that small, religious difference is, to be able to instantly differentiate themselves, on an identity basis, from their majority muslim fellow "Punjabis" in their area???

That is, a fourteen-year old Sikh child, that's:-

* been taught nothing about the distinct nature of Sikhi;

* knows nothing about Sikh history, particularity modern history including 1940-1947;

* doesn't know even the names of the 10 Guru's, let alone their amazing principles, accomplishments and history;

* has no f'n clue in hell about the hate-text that is the holy koran and hadeeths, and all of the corrupt islamic "shariah" laws that originates from it, including taqiyyah, muta...

But was certainly taught "oora-aara" at Punjabi school, as the dumb uncles that control the UK Gurdwara committees deem it far more necessary in the propagation of a "Sikh" identity than any of the above...

Answer:

I don't.

__________________________________________________________________

So how is a dumb fourteen-year old Sikh girl, whose father drinks, mum does chugliyan, and parents that never go the Gurdwara, except once in a blue moon; supposed to know the difference between her identity, and the muslim identity, when it comes to forming relationships, when her community have always told her that she's "Punjabi" too; not distinct Khalistani/Khalsa/Sikh???

How you gon' implement a clear, unambiguous, national identity?

Ain't by calling yourself a term like "Punjabi" that is rightly used by 80+ million of your worst enemies!!!

__________________________________________________________________

This always confuses me. Why was it like this, I really don't know???

Why is it still like this? Turn on brit asia and you can still hear plenty of stupid nonsensical songs like "Sher Punjabi Putt Aa"

Perhaps, and what I'm about to say could be interpreted quite controversially; it was because an unambiguously Sikh identity wasn't one that many UK Sikhs, especially the youth, and young Sikh females in particular, felt comfortable with in the 80's/90's????

Or maybe because our association with bhangra music "culture", was stronger than our link back to Sikhi?

I don't know. Whatever.

__________________________________________________________________

Blank Canvas. Blank Canvas.

So f'n important, I had to say it twice.

That's what your kids are.

If you don't clearly implement your identity on your children, then someone else will; and they will most certainly see that kid as a dumb, fourteen-year old piece of meat, ready to be groomed; especially if they happen to be a devout Pak Muslim.

God forbid that this continues to happen to unsuspecting children of unsuspecting parents.

Ignore it if you like; but then don't complain, if, unfortunately, the worst, should come, to worst.

You're wrong in this post when you said that canadian pakistanis are different. most of them are really good and are punjabis in toronto area but in my city calgary alot of the pakistanis are infact from kashmir mostly from kotli and rawlakot to be exact and yes these types even though they r in the minority of even the pak community r the ones who r living the gang life and causing fights and trouble for no reason. I do think tht the same <banned word filter activated> tht happened in the uk might happen in canada but alot of the sikhs here r from jatt ethnicity and moga district which r traditonaly seen as tough as vs to doabis who r majority of the uk.

You know the truth.

Too often, I find it's the other way round; with way too many Sikhs sleeping, and being completely oblivious to the actual ground situation, as it stands, right now, in their respective area; rather than being alert and awake.

"alot of the sikhs here r from jatt ethnicity and moga district which r traditonaly seen as tough as vs to doabis who r majority of the uk."

I ain't even about to pretend that this ain't a factor.

East London is an area that had IMMENSE problems with Paki Muslim hate attacks on Sikhs in the 80's/90's, of the level that were never seen in Southall (I'm not saying it didn't happen in West London; it was just less blatant and more undercover in the Hounslow/Feltham/Ealing belt).

S.P. elders even told me that in the mid 80's, the East Ham Nagar Kirtan used to see young mirpuri paki's literally physically PULLING / DRAGGING Sikh school-age girls out of the nagar kirtan as it passed through Green Street. If anyone tried to intervene, the pak's would tell them to "mind your own business, she's my girlfriend".

The Sikh population in East London always had been, and still is, to this day, predominantly, urban "tharkan" and "bhat" (with boat paggs that easily get knocked over to go with it).

Not exactly renowned for their fighting skills, and still seen as soft, liberal, and a pushover by the pak muslims.

Which, to be quite frank; we mostly are.

To the negligent Police, Council, Social Services etc. we are aware of your corruption & inaction and this situation will no longer be tolerated by the good people of Britain & the world. I will be writing soon to the UN & NATO to launch air strikes against our corrupt UK organizations to protect us Sikhs.

Lolz, :biggrin2: :biggrin2: :biggrin2:

As much as I have chastised you over a comment you made in response to my post over on the Master Tara Singh thread...

I must humbly praise you my brother, for putting this most necessary and required article up, veer.

Reading this, I can safely say, is one of the few times in living memory that I have truly felt lost for words.

It takes some time to adjust to what you've just read up there.

Shocking

"Shocking" is sometimes a phrase that's over used, and I don't really use it too much.

But in this case; it's actually very fitting.

"Shocking" is actually an understatement.

It ain't just "shocking". It's truly f'n dumbfounding.

__________________________________________________________________

We know so much about the struggle of the 80's and 90's; yet so little about the struggle of the 40's, 50's, and 60's in our grandparents' generation.

I, myself, must admit that I knew very little about the mass opposition to the very existence of the Sikhs as a Nation with a Distinct Identity within Hindu ruled India, as early as 1947!

I was very shocked when I read some English excerpts from Sirdar Kapur Singh's "Sachi Sakhi", that described a few shocking incidents, that truly challenged my perception of Punjabi Hindus, in an era as early as 1947-1948; but that, along with Nehru's Nazi, criminal declaration that the Sikhs should be dealt with by the Police with "special measures", was all that I knew about the discrimination we faced even in that particular era.

(The incidents, incidentally, were pretty f'n shocking. I will find them and put them up here later.)

__________________________________________________________________

It just goes to show that we have never been a free entity in India.

We have never experienced the "glow of freedom" that the Sikh-hater Nehru falsely promised us in order for us to side with Hindu ruled India.

Nope.

Not once.

This revelation proves that our decision to throw our lot in with them has been a disaster, right from the very word go.

Which is in pretty stark contrast to the popular misconception that trouble for Sikhs only started when we asked for equal rights, in the form of Anandpur Sahib Resolution; only as recently as 1973.

(Which is the perverse way the Hindu majority always try to blame the minorities for inviting their own troubles; as if, by simply asking for their basic human right to existence, and refusal to die early; they have invited our own current predicament.

Just like the way they try to blame the poor, weak, female victims of multiple gang rapes by high caste Hindus in India; by insinuating that they are "responsible" for their horrendous ordeals because they look or act a certain way.

Cowards and prehistoric animals.)

__________________________________________________________________

The extent of the cover-up of the Hindu anti-Sikh violence right from 1947 has been amazing.

I consider myself to come from a family that was traditionally associated with Sikh Sovereignty and the Khalistan movement.

If I didn't know any of this; then WHO DID?????????

Oh, how conveniently they brush aside his shortcomings, in particular, his pro Sikh-hating, Far-Right, Fascist, Genocidal, Terrorist Hindu ruled India leanings; and praise him, for his brave opposition (albeit, rightly deserved and well appreciated) to the Sikh-hating, Far-Right, Fascist, Genocidal, Terrorist (Pakistani) Unionist Party and Muslim League.

One terrorist is not better than the other.

Let's take a brief look at Master Ji's tendency of over easily trusting the Hindus.

__________________________________________________________________

Early proximity of Master Ji to the Far-Right Hindu dominated, Terrorist Indian National Congress Party, and, in particular, Mohandas Karamchand Dirty.

Under "Keys Agitation" (Chabian da Morcha):

11 January 1922:

"Mahatma Gandhi s telegram to Kharak Singh read, First battle for India's freedom won, congratulations.

It was because of the policy of cooperation with the Indian National Congress, that the victory in the Keys Affair was declared so by Mahatma Gandhi, and Master Tara Singh was instrumental in the adoption of this policy."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tara_Singh_(activist)

__________________________________________________________________

1922-1930:

Master Ji advocates strongly for the restoration of the rights of Sikhs on a wide range of issues within British ruled India, and, furthermore, within the future imagined Hindu ruled India as envisioned by the Terrorist Congress party.

__________________________________________________________________

And, all the while, Master Ji's views are still worryingly pro-Hindu ruled India;

Under "Master Tara Singh becomes undisputed leader of the Sikhs":

1930:

"From 1930 onwards, with Master Tara Singh taking over the reins of Sikh politics.

... This dual loyalty towards the Sikh-Panth and towards Indian nationalism appeared to be confusing

and contradictory to many of his contemporaries. But, according to him there was no incompatibility, he considered both complimentary to each other.

Under his leadership the primary political objective of

Shiromani Akali Dal became the pursuit of greater political leverage for the Sikhs as a community."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tara_Singh_(activist)

__________________________________________________________________

Please note, that the fact that Master Ji always aimed for special treatment for Sikhs (above their numerical representation), within a future Hindu ruled India, rather than an Independent Sikh state, remains a theme, throughout his life;

Which, to be fair, one must hand to him; he advocated for quite strongly, effectively, and single-mindedly.

However, this is where the compliments end.

Because, Master Ji never fought for the Sikh Nation to, in line with Dasven Patshah's hukam, achieve:

Pure; independent; sampooran; halemi; Khalistan -

In other words; AZAAD KHALSA RAAJ.

Instead, Master Ji preferred to place his loyal Sikhs at the mercy of an entity that considers Sikhs to be it's worst enemy (even worse than Muslims).

Thank you very much Master Ji. Look how that "stand" turned out.

Unfortunately; because of his dictatorial hold over the Panth, at such a critical point in history: Master Ji's own personally stubborn blind love for a Hindu ruled India was to have irreparable consequences for the Sikh Nation (*) as a whole.

It most definitely ensured the slavery of numerous generations of Sikhs to come.

[(*): Which, I would like to remind you, "Nalwa" Ji, is FYI, clearly, at least 90% "PINDU".

Which means that you despise at least 90% of the current members of the Sikh Nation. Well done. We love you too.]

__________________________________________________________________

OMG. It gets worse. Master Tara Singh tried to position himself as the dictatorial Badal of the 1930's;

Under "Master Tara Singh becomes undisputed leader of the Sikhs":

1930:

"His ascendancy was also possible due to his control over the Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee and Shiromani Akali Dal, which provided him with organizational structure and patronage to consolidate his position. It also gave him the effective media for political communication.

As the Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee had emerged as the religious parliament of the Sikhs, the dominance over it gave him the legislate authority to be the chief representative of the community. "

Ring any bells lads???

__________________________________________________________________

More on Master Ji's unquestioning service of the dirty, naked, paedophile, homosexual, brahmin kutchee that called our beloved father "a misguided patriot";

Under "Role in Civil Disobedience Movement"

March 1930:

"In March 1930, Gandhi ji declared the Civil Disobedience Movement. Baba Kharak Singh who was then the president of Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee opposed it while Master Tara Singh who was then the vice-president of the committee supported it.

Master Tara Singh was opposed to a boycott of Gandhi ji's Civil Disobedience Movement, as he considered it suicidal for the community to keep itself aloof from the national movement. He was successful in persuading Shiromani Akali Dal to extend its support to the civil disobedience movement and placed the immediate services of 5000 Akalis at the disposal of Mahatma Gandhi."

Now if that ain't plain dumb, then it most certainly is suspiciously loyal.

__________________________________________________________________

1930-1947:

Master Ji plays an exceptional role, and displays ferocious bravery, principles and guts, by standing up to, and never surrendering, to the racist, fascist, intolerant, violent, islamist, majority, punjabi muslims of Panjaab, led by the apologist Punjab premier, Sir Sikander Hyatt Khan; who were duly supported actively, by the selfish British, and passively, by the inaction of the Terrorist Indian National Congress Party.

But all the while, blinded by his unwarranted blind faith in his Hindu friends, and even in the clear evidence of the shunning of the Sikh cause by the Hindu majority of India; Master Ji fails to recognise the Hindu Snake for the boa constrictor of the forest that it is.

Eventually, when it came down to it; Master Ji cast his lot with Hindu ruled India, and we have been slaves ever since.

Man who fought in Gurdwara Sudhar lehar , fought Muslims for Punjab and also for Punajbi suba is a spineless leader ? Truth is we need someone like Master Tara Singh who can take stand . Tell me one sikh leader who did so much for the panth ? Except Sant Bhindranwale nobody comes close to Master Tara Singh . Why there is hate for him just because he was a born Hindu or he was from Rawalpindi to whom most pindus called bhaapas .

We all know about Master Ji's background.

But no one has cared to mention it so far.

Why???

__________________________________________________________________

Well, for one, because it is the same background as that of the famous Kattar Khalistani Shere Kharkoo Singh; Shaheed Baba Mohar Singh Jee (Pandit), and his entire immediate and extended family;

Young Kaurs, six and eight years old, that destroyed the dirty, invading, Indian tanks as they arrogantly roamed around the parikarma of Sri Harmandir Sahib; defending Darbar Sahib, saying "how dare they defy the sanctity of Sri Harmandir Sahib; how dare they bring tanks onto the pathway of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji"!

http://frontlinepunjabiyouth.blogspot.com/2008/06/whole-family-gives-shaheedi.html?m=1

__________________________________________________________________

To summarise;

No one mentioned it so far, because it doesn't matter.

No one, that is, until "Nalwa" veer.

Who found cause to issue a divisive, uncalled for and unwarranted comment like:

"Why there is hate for him just because he was a born Hindu or he was from Rawalpindi to whom most pindus called bhaapas ."

__________________________________________________________________

Fools will always see a man, as "born Hindu" or "born Muslim"; it is the same fools who label Bhagat Namdev and Sheikh Farid as "Hindu" and "Muslim, despite clear evidence to the contrary.

Nobody even mentioned that Master Ji's parents were Hindu (in fact, they were Sehajdhari Sikhs); just like nobody cares what background Pehla Pyara Bhai Daya Singh, Shaheed Bhai Mati Das, Shaheed Bhai Sati Das, Shaheed Bhai Dayala, Khalistani Yodhay like Shaheed Bhai Baksheesh Singh Kaljug, and Shaheed Bhai Parmjit Singh Pama are from.

But casteists will always seek to turn a proper debate into an argument about "pindus" and "bhaapas".

What a shame.

I have read he was among the founding fathers of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad.

Yeah, so have I.

That fact alone kinda informs part of my opinion about Master Ji's judgment. As it should, for any concerned human being.

Bless his little socks.

__________________________________________________________________

The VHP is the same pan-India organisation that it's responsible for the insistent Hindu claim that "Sikhs are part of the Hindus".

You might remember that it's president, Praveen Togodia, tried to have Dasven Patshah's photo installed at all Mandirs a few years back (Pehle Patshah's photo had already been up for a long time); in a blatant and crude attempt to provide false credence to the above lie.

"Founded 29 August 1964

Founder(s)

Keshavram Kashiram Shastri

Swami Chinmayananda

S.S. Apte

Sri Satguru Jagjit Singh Ji

Master Tara Singh"

"Viśva Hindu Parishad

(English: World Hindu Council), abbreviated VHP , is a Hindu organisation in India and is based on the ideology of Hindutva . Founded in 1964, [4] its main objective is to organise - consolidate the Hindu society and to serve - protect the Hindu Dharma. "

"History

The VHP was founded in 1964 by Keshavram Kashiram Shastri. The other co-founders were the Hindu spiritual leader Swami Chinmayananda , former RSS member S.S. Apte, Supreme Spiritual Head of the Namdhari Sikhs Sri Satguru Jagjit Singh Ji and Sikh leader Master Tara Singh ."

"The VHP, which considers Buddhists , Jains and Sikhs as part of the greater Hindu fraternity, officially mentions that it was founded by the "Saint Shakti of Bharat"."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishva_Hindu_Parishad

If that doesn't send alarm bells ringing about Master Ji's lack of understanding of the distinct nature of the Sikh Nation; what will?

__________________________________________________________________

Here, you can see Master Ji at the Inception of Vishwa Hindu Parishad in 1964.

(Seated, quite flatteringly, right in the middle of the high profile deliberations, right next to the legendary racist/fascist, RSS supremo, Gowalkar himself!

Nothing says more, and that too, pictorially, about the sheer stupidity and gullibility of our pre and post ghulaami "leaders" (until 1978) than this one picture does!)

http://rajoana.blogspot.com/2012/03/deep-malhotra-master-tara-singh-was.html?m=1

__________________________________________________________________

And this is what he said at that historic conference that gave birth to the VHP:

“Protection of Dharma is our Dharma. Khalsa Panth was born for that purpose. Never have I left Hinduism. Guru Govind Singh has produced a lot of Gurumukhi literature based on Vedas, Puranas and the like. Are we to leave all that?

In fact Hindus and Sikhs are not two separate communities. Name is Sikh and beard… Mona (non beard) Sikh and Sevak… That is all…

Sikhs live if Hinduism exists. If Sikhs live Hinduism lives. They are not two separate communities. They are one indeed. Lack of mutual confidence has been a small problem. This situation must be put to an end. I want to see that.

A Hindu revival movement is very necessary and it will certainly come up. If Sri Guruji Golwalkar takes it up it could be easily built up.”

http://www.khalistan.net/?p=944

__________________________________________________________________

As the proselytizing arm of the RSS, the VHP is also the parent of our good ol' mates, that love attacking the helpless, unarmed, mostly shopkeeper, minority Sikhs in the cities of Panjaab;

The Bajrang Dal.

Affectionately known to our Panjaab veers as The Bandar Dal.

Another feather in Master Ji's cap.

(Or pagg, to be historically precise).

Man who fought in Gurdwara Sudhar lehar , fought Muslims for Punjab and also for Punajbi suba is a spineless leader ? Truth is we need someone like Master Tara Singh who can take stand . Tell me one sikh leader who did so much for the panth ? Except Sant Bhindranwale nobody comes close to Master Tara Singh . Why there is hate for him just because he was a born Hindu or he was from Rawalpindi to whom most pindus called bhaapas .

Why was my post deleted?

Tell me what violates your forum policy in this and then maybe I can amend ;

" ... LMAO!!!

Dude ...

1. Learn to read;

2. Learn to read English, specifically;

3. Learn to interpret the rules of syntax and grammar in the English language;

4. Take a deep breath;

5. Re-read MY above post (#31, just to make it entirely CLEAR to the mods);

6. Apologise;

7. Take some anger management lessons.

The above seven-step plan WILL help save you making a fool of yourself in the future.

All that initial advice at no cost. Pretty good deal eh? :biggrin2: "

Gatiya bikiya Banda.. Longowal is panth dokhi and the reason why we lost sant ji.

Can you elaborate? I keep hearing both sides of story here.

Read

http://www.bhindranwale.net/sikhismbooks/the-gallant-defender.html

Evil dirty groomers are the root cause shamsher

Innocent unsuspecting parents and children who would never dream of such attrocities are easy prey

Its a male chauvinist view to just blame the girls, which is the problem with asian communities.

The muslim viewpoint is that its the girls fault, if she didnt cover up, she brought it on herself, so it absolves the men of any responsibility, It is her fault

Wheras sikhi teaches men " par triya roop na pekhey netr" do not look upon other peoples women, sikhi teaches the men to control their lust, and respects women.

-------

When amhed shah abdali invaded india and took its daughters as sex slaves, the sikh warriors stood up and saved who they could and returned the sisters home.

The cowards said its their own fault

------

this is the maryada of the house of Nanak, that in the kalyug the gurmukhs will go in and save who they can

And not just leave them to suffer and die.

Thank guru there are people like sas and sikh helpline which still beleive in helping and protecting families, without them this prorgramme wouldnt even be happening.

Three words bro;

1. HAMMER

2. NAIL

3. HEAD

Can we somehow start some sort of agitation to include/count the forgotten 12 crore Sikhs (Vanjaras, Sikligar, et al) as Sikhs and not Hindus. Say the 2014 census of India says Sikhs are now 15 crores, that is like 12% of the 1 billion Indian population, and trust me that number just can NOT be neglected ever, in terms of politics, economy, education or any field. What is even better is that they are spread out all over India, especially in the western and southern states. Add to this a small number of Sikhs coming in from Pakistan and Afghanistan also.

Yeah... but that would just be a statistical exercise. No harm in doing it, but it's not the most critical use of our limited resources at this stage. I doubt such an effort would bear fruit in the way that you imagine, never mind because of India's inherent anti-Sikh bias, but mostly because I don't see a united India even existing for long enough for such a result to impact positively on Sikh representation/opportunities within India.

On the other hand, a slightly different approach would be HIGHLY WELCOME.

The kind that Jonny101 and proactive veer's advocate.

ACTIVE PARCHAR.

Active parchar to the same groups, and others, will ensure that they are on our side, and not the enemy's, when the impending civil war engulfs the sub continent.

This will surely bear fruit. Not only would your population be greater on paper, but in practice too. You would find that your forces swell, particularly in the case of the Satnami's; who have been Sikhs since at least Nauven Patshah, if not earlier; and have already proven they have the stomach for a fight when they challenged the might of Aurangzeb in his heyday.

Southall Park fairground murder: Six men arrested

27 August 2013 Last updated at 11:42

Six men have been arrested after a man was murdered at a fairground in west London.

Police were called to Southall Park, in Southall, on Monday evening following reports of a large group of men fighting.

A man, believed to be in his 20s, was found in a nearby road with a head wound. He was treated by paramedics but died at the scene.

Two other men with stab wounds were also taken to hospital.

One man was stabbed in his armpit, while the other was stabbed in the arm.

Both men were later arrested in connection with the incident, along with four others, and they are being held at west London police stations.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23849879

27 August 2013 01:18 PM

By Jessica Best

Two other men were stabbed in the fight - one was knifed in the armpit and another had a wound to his arm

A man has been murdered and two others stabbed in a mass brawl at a fairground.

The fight broke out between a large group of men at a fair in Southall Park, west London, at around 9pm last night.

So far six men have been arrested.

Police found the victim with head injuries and paramedics treated him at the scene, but he died shortly before 10pm.

His family have not yet been told.

Two other men were stabbed in the fight - one aged 25 was knifed in the armpit and another aged 32 had a wound to his arm.

Both were discharged from hospital, and have now been arrested, along with four other men - aged 22, 23, 25 and another whose age has not yet been released.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/southall-park-murder-man-stabbed-2228463

Vancouver is set to become the largest area outside India where Sikhs are going to be the majority, if you google this you will see. Why has this not happened in the Uk can we blame Pakistanis for this?

Probably... Or to put it more specifically, mirpuris.

But I'm sure you'd get a lot of people arguing that a lot of it is to do with the difference in immigration policy between the two countries.

__________________________________________________________________

Firstly: UK allows refugees to settle on an almost frighteningly open door basis, and denies settlement to anyone else outside the EU (they've got enough Polish to deal with, lolz).

On the other hand, Canada has allowed students and skilled professionals to settle permanently in a way that I can't remember the UK ever allowing. Therefore, legit immigration to the UK from East Panjaab hasn't really been an option since the mid 90's, but to Canada it has.

__________________________________________________________________

Secondly: Up until recently, Canada allowed settled immigrants to apply for PR status for their close family members (that I believe recently ended for immigrants who arrived in canada after 2008), which really helped the Sikh population in Canada to increase, as people brought their whole families over after getting PR status themselves.

The UK only ever allowed this on an exceptional basis (if the relative had no independent means of support), so it was never really an option over here.

__________________________________________________________________

Thirdly: The paks increased their population here partly by marrying their first cousins from back home, who then obtain PR status within three years.

Although this option was open to Sikhs also, the numbers of Sikhs marrying outside the UK are comparatively very low, so due to this cultural difference, as well as the fact that the paks had multiple marriages and produced far more babies to take advantage of the Labour party's welfare orientated policies, the numbers gap between the two communities widened.

__________________________________________________________________

Having said that though; it would be a simpleton who considered the legal issues only and paid no heed to the environment prevailing viz-a-viz the Sikhs in the UK.

The fact is that muslims enjoy a special preference from all the political parties, but especially the Labour party, because of the sheer strength of their 5% strong, economically poor, traditionally Labour, vote block which can make or break a general election.

Their population is also concentrated, rather than clustered; so that their nationwide population figure of 5% turns into 50%-70% in their ghetto strongholds, which are effectively non-muslim no go areas. That means that they control the local administration (day to day running of the local council) in those areas via proliferation of muslims into lower, medium and higher level positions - including the department of social services.

It's this local muslim political influence that can really work against kaffirs.

*** With this knowledge, you can understand why the social services departments in muslim dominated areas are so pro-pak muslim paedophile groomers, and actively ignore kaffir concerns, even at the cost of honest decency and respect for humanity.

And further, why are the pak muslim paedophile groomers so keen to encourage their victims to get themselves put into care? Because they are so well integrated with their pak muslim cohorts, working at lower levels in the department of social services at the local council, that they are able to ensure the paedophiles ready, continuous and easy access to the child being groomed, in a way that just wouldn't be possible if the poor child was still at home, by having the pak paedophile registered with the department as a "trusted person" for that particular child. ***

__________________________________________________________________

Sikhs make up only 0.7% of the population in the UK, and correspondingly, have comparatively little influence in most local councils, let alone at the governmental (policy-making) level.

That's not the case in Canada, where, along with the Chinese, we are one of the top two immigrant communities, and enjoy far more political influence.

__________________________________________________________________

As a minority among minorities; it is inevitable that we are going to have problems. The only way to avoid that is to propagate a population increase drive (doubt that will happen).

If we stay at under 1%, then the only proven way to not be completely trampled on is to adopt a variation of the Jewish model - strong, over-represented political participation backed up by an exceptionally clear, unambiguous, national identity.

One of the secrets of Jewish success, other than their insistence on only joining the most highly paid and influential professions, has been their propagation of a clear national identity.

You ask any Jew in the UK who they are and they will tell you they are Jew.

Unlike our lot in the UK , who can't decide internally whether they are Sikh or "Punjabi" (this hypocrisy is well recognised at the UK governmental level), and externally, can't decide whether to declare themselves Sikh, or stay off the radar and be known as "Indian", "Asian", or "British Asian". Any Sikh using any of these generic terms to describe themselves amongst whites/the indigenous population can reasonably be interpreted as a coward.

Its time for Sikh girls to step up and take responsibility. If this girl came from the Muslims community I bet there would be many other Muslims girls helping and supporting her and pointing her in the right direction. While this girl probably had other Sikh girls encouraging her and recruiting more.

True.

What I dont get is the general Attitude of a lot of Sikh girls. They think if it doesnt affect them, then why they should care about it. For instance if Sikhs are being groomed or used then why should they care?

Short answer:

We don't have a clear national identity at this stage in the diaspora.

__________________________________________________________________

Long answer:

True, although I'd take your point a bit further, to its source, and extend it back to Diaspora Sikhs, in general.

Diaspora Sikhs suffer from a real lack of a clear, unadulterated, unambiguous identity.

In plain words: they've got an identity crisis.

You won't ever see this level of identity crisis in East Panjaab; the kids in the villages over there know exactly who they are, even if they look like honey chand, and go to pray to a fake baba at a nakli dera.

Nor would you, even to an extent, see this among newer immigrants in B.C. and Italy.

You only see this as purely prevalent among Sikhs wherever they are in a clear minority, but especially so, wherever they are in a minority even among panjaabi speakers in that area. (Muslims are the majority panjaabi speakers in every area of the UK except West London.)

This identity crisis ain't just confined to the youth, alhough, admittedly, they've borne the brunt of it. Nahhh... You can even observe elements of it emerging from the parents.

__________________________________________________________________

Here's just a little clue:

Ever expressed surprise, nay, shock, at how punjabi immigrants, born and raised in East Panjaab, quite clearly fluent in the punjabi language with excellent pronunciation, can "amend" their punjabi accent, all of a sudden, into a horrible mish-mash of brit/canadian and authentic punjabi, at the very moment that they land on foreign shores?

As ridiculous and incredible as it sounds to the human ear, this particular behavioural adaptation is just them adapting to their environment.

And their environment is a horrible mix of unsure identities.

We might hate to hear them make a total mess of the punjabi language, but they're only reflecting the identity crisis within the community that they've landed in.

__________________________________________________________________

There are very few Diaspora Sikhs that are not affected by the muddling up of identities.

Problem is, it only gets worse generation to generation, because this apparent confusion over identity is transmitted down from parents to children, who, unless put straight early on in childhood (e.g. through Khalsa camp/school/academy), end up more confused than their parents.

And all before you know it, you've got one f'd up child; who doesn't know whether they're british or asian; sikh or hindu; indian or khalistani; jat or tharkan; ravidasia or chamar; punjabi or panjabi; doaba or majha or malwa; etc etc etc... Even down to confusion over the identity represented by the type of dastaar that their father wears.

Or even whether any of it matters!

And let me tell you; when it's that confusing, you end up choosing the latter option as it's a lot easier.

It's hard enough trying to juggle two identities, as it is (i.e. the first being british born, and the second being "other/immigrant"), without having only a vague idea, of what the complex "other/immigrant" identity actually is!

In such a situation, blaming muslims for taking advantage of such easy pickings, like kids as confused as this, is like blaming a pack of wolves for devouring your kid's pet rabbit because you left it out of its cage.

Yeah, they shouldn't have. But, then again, it's in their nature.

Rather than pursuing a lawsuit against the pack of wolves after the said massacre, perhaps it's a better idea, in that case, to keep the cage door firmly closed in the first place.

__________________________________________________________________

Diaspora pak muslims, on the other hand, have no such comparable level of identity crisis in the UK.

Islam has an exceptionally strong national identity in the diaspora. Far stronger, in cases (e.g. Europe), than even the national identities of the western countries that the said muslims reside in.

This ain't me bigging up islam. Lol. It can't be bigged up anymore than the prophet and baby aisha, lol

Nah. This is me showing you how a weak, perverse, ridiculous, man-made belief system, carved out from plagiarising erstwhile belief systems, can end up with a stronger national identity than the weak foundations that it's built on.

The biggest world religions are more a means of power, population, and control (i.e. the caliphate, the vatican, the brahmin illuminati), than a means of emancipation.

Even with all it's weaknesses, Islam still manages to unite various adherents better than most identities.

So, there's got to be a reason why such a weak belief system can operate such a deadly hold over it's adherents?

Yep. It's called implementing a clear national identity.

__________________________________________________________________

This is why we need to study and learn from other nationalist concepts about how to successfully implement a national identity.

Islam, and the global "ummah" always spring to mind.

However, the RSS have arguably done better in the last hundred years at propagating the hindutva agenda, especially considering how divided hindu society has always been, on the basis of caste, in comparison to islam. (To their credit, they have recognised caste as a dividing factor, and worked hard at eliminating it (at least at the upper levels) within their own organisation.)

It is said that Gowalkar was so impressed with the propagation of national pride in hitler's germany, that he straight up plagiarised the nazi model, even right down to the f'in names! take RSS for hitler's SS.

Even if you don't like the idea of muslims and hindus; take a look at similar ethnicities fighting for freedom; e.g. the dravidians (dalits) of south india.

Within the last fifty years, they have successfully been able to invent and propagate the value of the so-called "indigenous" dravidian identity (as opposed to that of the north indian aryan "invaders"), amongst not only themselves, but also their neighbours, all under the nose of a pro-aryan, north indian central government! Brahmins can hardly get a foot into power, independently, in Tamil Nadu state anymore, whereas once, as the educated elite, they effectively controlled it.

The maratha's, too, (the original shiv sena), have an exceptionally strong national identity within the confines of a so-called "one nation" India, so much so that they can openly attack north indians with a view to driving them out of maharashtra, and the police in the state doesn't bat an eyelid because it subscribes to the same ideology.

Without going too far from home, you can even look at the arya samaji's of panjaab (the self styled "shiv sena").

__________________________________________________________________

We don't have nearly as strong a national identity as Sikhs in East Panjaab, as those groups listed above have in their respective regions of influence.

Our main problem in East Panjaab is whether to define ourselves as "Punjabi's" (evidently not true, looking at the demographic statistics) or "Sikhs".

This transmits over to the duality (or hypocrisy) of the mostly Sikh-background cops and politicians over there.

They can bend to the will of the united minority in Panjaab (e.g. the shiv sena), and at the same time they're able to fire on their own kith and kin because they know that Sikhs aren't united under one clear national identity (i.e. "Punjabi" or "Sikh"!), so they can easily get away with it.

But that's about as far as the identity problem goes over there. We've got it a hundred times worse, because we have a whole multitude of further intertwined, complex identities to juggle in the Diaspora, which are a result of being a minority at the national level, the ethic minority level, the "asian" level, and even the "punjabi-speaking" level (we're outnumbered by pak muslims even in this last category).

__________________________________________________________________

Your point about the "general Attitude of a lot of Sikh girls" above is just a symptom of the fact that we don't have a clear national identity at this stage in the diaspora; and that, even if one exists (which we know for a fact that it certainly does), we are too afraid to express it outside the Gurdwara.

Until this issue is addressed, I'm afraid that these cases are going to continue coming in by the shedload.

The funniest example I saw was on YouTube during the Mumbai attacks of 2008. India TV, a prime example of rotten journalism, somehow ended up talking on the phone to 2 of the terrorists.

While the terrorists were absolutely calm, composed and "dedicated" to their "mission", these reporters at India TV were screaming their lungs out and also pleading with them to surrender (reporter-turned-negotiator)

Bro, this (reporters screaming out at the top if their lungs) is a routine practice at indian so-called "news" channels).

Whereas in the west, you would normally see a guest on a news show getting hysterical, and the anchor staying calm, in India, it's the anchors or reporters who are shouting out at the top of their voices, and the guests wondering whether these anchors are sane.

Everything happens the opposite way in India.

Quote

"come on its the 21st century don't be so old fashioned, we can mix"

Lets see their response when its a Muslim girl and a non-Muslim guy.

Ummm... yeah. That usually involves a gun to the head, knife to the throat, or sword to the neck.

:D

This really angers me!

Well, it's a good job that you're not within direct earshot of me, in that case, bruv.

I could let you in on a few home truths that are swept under the carpet at our community level, even those that originate around your endz, that might send you into hypertension.

The "josh" only exists in your late teens/early twenties. When you've seen and heard the worst of it, solid, for over a decade, it just doesn't mean the same anymore. You become tired, exhausted, and hardened.

This case was particularly distressing, I can't imagine what the parents went though, let alone the child herself. But bruv, I'm sad to say it, I wasn't even shocked. Not even remotely. Nothing shocks me anymore.

I think you're in Southall, if I'm not wrong, so you're far from the worst of it.

However, I don't underestimate the ability of Sikhs anywhere in the UK to keep their head under the sand until they, God forbid, become directly affected, which, let's face it, is just as likely in Southall, as it is in Bradistan - not only because of the changing demographic of this particular part of West London, but also because twitter and facebook have totally changed the whole ball game.

Also why don't are our own boys and girls realise what muslims are trying to do. Whenever we try to help or advise one not to do it we get the response 'mind your own business' and all the things you have said above.

I'll give you two answers.

The first is a long answer; a list of generic reasons that are always bandied about, but never revisited once our community forgets (which is funnily frequent).

And the second is a short answer; more of a specific explanation for the current best situation that I've been thinking about this week, as it relates to events that happened around this time of year.

__________________________________________________________________

Long answer:

a) These kids don't know what game is being played with them.

I don't think there's any doubt about that.

b) Worse still, they don't want to know what game is being played with them.

Why? Well, that's because they've already been brainwashed by their parents and society into confirmist, compliant, liberal, soft, unassuming, fairytale-believing pappu's, with no clue about the harsh environment that operates in the outside world they live in.

The ludicrously simple warnings that punjabi parents give them, while telling them just to focus on grades, and buying their heads in the sand about what else might be going on at school/college, don't help.

Nor does the fact that they have zero knowledge about their own faith, let alone about islam.

c) Since their parents don't want to teach then, the door is left wide open for westernised friends/peers, older pervs/pak muslim sexual groomers, garbage chav tv (e.g. eastenders), and twitter/facebook, to fill the gap in giving them a "real" education about all the so called "controversial", taboo topics, that they actually want to, and need to, obtain closure about at that age (early teens).

Dumb punjabi parents conveniently sweep these issues under the carpet, and refuse to discuss them, because they naively deem them to be too "dirty" for discussion.

You've got to remember that kids are so highly impressionable, that they're almost like a blank canvas at that age.

So if their parents don't get a headstart in teaching them about things that could save their life later on, others most definitely will, and they will most surely see a stupid, naive, gullible fool ready to be exploited, all because they have been denied a "real" education.

__________________________________________________________________

Short answer:

It's because they don't know what our good, moderate punjabi muslim friends did to us in 1947.

This is pretty important.

Meanwhile, pak muslim parents begin the education of their children about Sikh people from this part of history. All with their own obvious bias to it.

Before someone says that we already do keep the heritage of the Khalsa of the 1700's alive though pictures of the genocidal campaigns of aurangzeb, zakaria khan, abdali;

Blud, that was over three centuries ago, in a time world's apart from the way we live now. No child would be able to identify with those pictures In this day and age!

But 1947 is totally, and, furthermore, painfully, still relevant to us now.

If anyone doubts this; why not just check out all the films that the paks have made about Sikhs, all about this topic? They all portray the same message; that Sikhs were the "bad guys".

Interesting how they forget to mention that it was the official policy of the Muslim League to rape, murder kill and ethnically cleanse kaffirs out of all of panjaab, as they knew it was the only way they would get pakistan.

We've got only one film that tells our side of the story (Gadar). Even that was corrupted by a predictably hindutva agenda.

Maybe we should think about filling our kids in about this particular bit of history, while trying to parrot teach them oora-aara at punjabi school, as it certainly hasn't escaped our muslim friends' attention?

These kebab and fast food joints are always where there is a Pakistani majority come to London no muslim would even think about doing this.

If, by "London", you mean Southall, bruv, then that particular part of London has already witnessed an explosion of paki kebab/fried chicken shops, and sadly, many can boast plenty of Sikh custom too.

And, like I've said before, pak muslim sexual grooming has gone on at close quarters to Southall right under our noses from well long before and still is now.

Beliefs like yours are sadly well persistent among our community, and only go to prove just how deluded we actually are.

Sikhs are sleeping, and pakis see them as sitting ducks.

Sad thing is, most of our community truly are.

I just hope the message is getting across

I very much doubt it is. It hasn't got across for 40 years plus, ever since pak muslim sexual grooming started in the UK in the 70's, despite the best efforts of a few true Sikh bravehearts, so I wonder how the message would, all of a sudden, start getting across now.

If anything, it's only going getting much worse. With a so called "Sikh" owned tv channel like britasia corrupting the youth with it's asian agenda (wherever you see this term, read it as "muslim" agenda, because that's what it really means), bhangra music that promotes caste and alcohol rapidly becoming the only link for most Sikh youth back to their indigenous "culture", and the hardcore elder generation fast disappearing, I can only see things going further downhill.

Bhai Mohan Singh said the sewadars are dealing with an unprecedented volume of cases. Shedloads, numbers never seen before. All over the country.

Sher-e-panjaab gave up decades ago, and ever since then, we've all thought it's not so bad anymore.

Any further confirmation required that that's clearly not the case?

Why doesnt she interview the victims in Leicester and Luton? The fact that she goes on muslim shows to advertise her book says it all. It looks like she wrote this before the exposure of muslim paedo gangs. Oh dear.

Even worse she is on the board of City Sikhs. What a Judenrate.

LMAO!!!!!

OMG. OK, just watched a bit of this video, and I just couldn't stop laughing!!! :D

The woman resembles a car crash.

She makes the muslims in the audience look like professors.

And that's all besides her ridiculous accent.

You really couldn't make her up.

The fact that she goes on muslim shows to advertise her book says it all.

Nahhh bro...

What says it all is the fact that she sits on the board of the most incredibly hilarious self-proclaimed Sikh "organisation" known to modern man...

What a clown.

Good luck love!

During the 1950s, there were communists or communist apologists in America who would go to any length to hide or justify the atrocities committed by the Soviets. Stalin called such people in America as "Useful Idiots" because that is exactly what they were. Similarly we have Sikhs who are similar to these Useful Idiots in the sense that they will go against their own people however they can and try to justify the aggression and atrocities committed by the Muslims in the UK and in India of the GOI. Sikhs with journalistic skills need to expose these Useful Idiots amongst us.

Bro, I know exactly what you're talking about. I have met far too many of these "useful idiots" amongst us. ( It might not surprise you to know that I live in the South... lol )

The phrase itself is a very convenient euphemism. The correct term, is actually "traitors".

In truth, such folk are the very definition of traitors; but, in tune with the original phrase, these clowns are so stupid that they provide their services to the enemy for free. Hence, why the enemy terms them "useful idiots".

__________________________________________________________________

In my experience, there seems to be a patten to these "useful idiots".

Many tend to originate from one particular sub-community, highly prevalent within the overall Sikh population found within, and around, the M25.

I'm going to ask this question quite bluntly.

Why do the families that migrated to the UK in the 1970's, from East Africa, that run the Ramgarhia caste based Gurdwaras, and Namdhari Bhavans, in Greater London, produce so many traitors?

How can a man that wears the crown gifted by the King of Kings on his head (albeit a heavily corrupted, starched up, form of one), advocate so strongly for indians and mohammedans (who are, incidentally, gladly thanking dumb mr singh for the notoriously open hospitality of his even dumber daughters), yet not bat an eyelid at the predicament of his own kith and kin in India, including the true tharkan Sikhs (as most of the tharkan Sikh community in Panjaab, excluding kookay, are true adherents to Sikhi, unlike in London), who are truly suffering, in a land where the said idiots claim to originate from, due to their profession of the faith that the said idiots themselves claim to adhere to?

I cannot understand what goes into the mind of such a weak and liberal man, that leaves him so devoid of honour, dignity, and pride, that you are left to question the existence of the said &lt;banned word filter activated&gt;'s very manhood.

__________________________________________________________________

What makes my blood boil is that these same "useful idiots", that bat for the opposition, and play against their own, are so often to be found operating in Gurdwara Committees!

What is it inside these weak hippies' skulls that makes them produce so many slags and sell-outs, that so readily espouse the cause of their oppressors (be that muslims, indians or goreh), easily convert to muslims/christians/hindus, yet staunchly advocate against their innocent own?

This question needs to be seriously investigated, if, at least, only for the sake of the few patriot die-hard tharkan Sikhs that I've met, who genuinely lament the current predicament that plagues their community.