RebelSingh

The 'Ambedkar / Dalit' situation is one of the handful of moments in our history that makes my heart sink. I actually feel a little bit sick when I think about the missed opportunity.

I COULDNT HAVE SAID IT ANY BETTER BRO!! I remember reading about this in 2008-9 time, n i nearly broke my keyboard! SUCH missed opportunities, for certain individuals personal gains.

Also u may not know, but ambedkar, almost in an act of revenge (possibly, i dont know), but he is the bandhar who sed the anand karaj is same as hindu marriage, despite the british recognising it, so its coz of him that all these yrs we have had 2 fight for our marriage act from hindu's.

The biggest GADARS that caused damage and division to Sikhism are those who believe in CASTE especially those KU%JARS who want CHAUDER in Gurdwaras and those moronic leaders who did not break-away from India during 1947 AND told DR Ambedkar that Chamar and Churey had to be Ravidassia sikh / Mezhbie sikhs and that's why he chose Buddhism because he knew the then Sikh's would never accept them as equals. Like another thread on this forum the best we can do is unite ALL Gurdwaras under one Nishan Sahib = The KHALSA

I am ANGRY the more and more I learn about the sell-outs in our community and the fake history that has been sold to us.

whats Chauder?

also regarding that mug ambedkar, WHY did he need the permission of sikh leaders 2 become a sikh? I didnt kno u needed some one elses ijazat 2 convert! He shudda jus converted, but sorry 2 say, the jatt leaders, who feared that jatts would then become a minority tribe in sikhi wud sum how suffer!! WHO GIVES A EFF what tribe u belong 2, aslong as we r sikhs, end of! Had the jatt leaders said "YESS DALIT PAAJIS OF INDIA, welcome 2 sikhi", then our population would been over 120m+ today!

I used 2 get angry wen i first learned bowt this stuff, now, nuthin shocks me anymore, nuthin!!

@ RebelSingh ... What you're forgetting to account for is how many Sikhs were in Pakistan in 1947 and how many were in India. So by a rough assumption that 50% of the 6 million lived on the Pakistan side (when in fact the percentage was lower than 50%) ... 300,000 of 3million means at least 10% of the Sikh population there were killed. There are studies to indicate that the percentage of Sikhs killed on the Pakistan side were actually far higher than even the arbitrary 10% i ascribed of the Sikh population there at the time, possibly as many as 1 in 5 Sikhs in Jinnah's Pakistan got slaughtered. The equivalent of if our enemies were to kill 5 million plus Sikhs today.

oh well, dont wanna sound horrible, but atleast we got them back eh. The reason also why muslims had higher casualties than sikhs, was because sikhs comin from the west were better prepared 2 leave (i suppose coz they knew there lands were ending up in pakistan), than ,muslims in the east who were 2 slow n laboured around, wich ultimately resulted in the khalsa doin away with there heads and unfortunatley their women too

@rebelsingh

Granted that Arain (Kamboh+Saini converts), Rajputs, Gujjars, Butts (Brahmin Muslims) etc also took part in the killings against Sikhs ... but how often do you hear people complain that Sikhs of a Saini, Kamboh, Gujjar, Brahmin, etc background have discriminated against them as fellow Sikhs? The answer is hardly ever. If you still can't make the link and put 2+2 together then I suggest you set up a counselling centre for the Hindu Jatts and Muslim Jatts whose feelings might have been hurt by what I posted :-)

u have a BLATANT problem with jatts it seems, so go and argue with them, its sooooooo blatant that u thought i was a jatt, and u thought i was stickin up for muslim jatts, and u try 2 do me over. Well done cyber bruce lee.

THe ppl who have done the biggest damage 2 sikhi , is without a doubt PAPPU SIKHS! pappus r the reason why, when sikhs wake-up n become militant, the pappu sikhs start crying that we r becoming too violent etc. When the fact that most of us wudnt b around today, had it not been our ancestors pickin up swords! Classic one is how bhindrawale had weapons inside golden temple etc, when guru hargobind did the exact same thing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgfDu_p-Z0c

LoL ... i don't need to apologise for something that i stand by.

You're probably the only one who seriously thought I was insinuating you support Sajjan Kumar (as no Sikh does).

If i respect Dr Manmohan Singh for his personal achievements, let me clarify that does not extrapolate into me supporting his party. I hate Congress but I recognise that there are Sikhs (such as him) that can work with a political party after Indira+Rajiv were rightfully killed without meaning those Sikhs are anti-Sikh themselves.

why are u replyin back for? i SAID apologise or dont reply back, which part of that dont u understand?

This is a me sayin "well first of all it wasnt jus muslim jatts, but muslims of different tribes who killed sikhs" (Coz arains/gujjars/syeds/qureshis also took part in killings) aswell as jatts.

This is ur crap quotes as a response "wow rebelsingh how comes your so touchy-feely about me coming down hard on the muslim jatts" AND " I don't see why it's problematic 4u when Sikhs point out that the majority of Jatts (being the proud Muslims + Hindu's that they are)".

So whos gettin the wrong end of the stick here? its defo u, wat a 24carat bandhar plonker u r.

@UKLondonSikh - by the way, the sikh population at 1947 was 6million, not 3million, so by my crap maths, that makes it 5% of sikh population killed in 1947. Nevertheless we killed muslims by the max, so well done 2 our grandparents showing ppl whats what. only 13% sikhs dealt with 56% ppl

- http://ir.emu.edu.tr...20partition.pdf (page 7)

- http://books.google....million&f=false

- BBC partition documentary aswell

i thought id provide u stats/sources, incase u start crying like a janani

Hans Raj Hans is a bandhar, him brown-nosing the badals says everything, also is hans sikh or hindu?

Bruv I'm not really gana respond to the majority of this as I believe your words speak for themselves ... but I would like to clarify that me + WLS Paji haven't got any spat going on whatsoever. If we disagree on an individual matter, we do so respectfully for constructive purposes for our mutual better understanding of a topic and more importantly with the best outcome for our Qaum in mind.

Do you agree with me in my discussion with WLS that there is no harm in referring to Guru Kabir Ji particularly from the point of view of encouraging up to 40million Julaha's throughout India who revere Kabir Ji Maharaj as we do to come within the wider family of Sikhi?

Let's keep it constructive on important issues like the sentence above bro ... no point in getting all in a tizz over my thoughts upon Muslim Jatts + Hindu Jatts! :-) Peace!

first of all dont bother replyin back until u apologise, like an honourable man should do, when hes been proven wrong of his dumb shuk (suspicions). For u 2 mention that i cud sympathise with sajjan kumar types of persons, is a stab at my character, and as a son of guru gobind singh. Remember ur a PM manmohan kumar (sinh) supporter, that says everything.

SO bakwaas band kar, and apologise like a man, otherwise dont bother replyin back.

dude the movement is over i don't know about uk but here in canada no1 is talking about balwant singh rajoana anymore and everyone has took there kesri flags off.

Well ive still got my massive kesri flag outside, its got dirty thru zabardast rain/sleet in the last week or so, but im still reppin.

@UKLondonSikh - LOOOOOL HAHAHA - well done for makin yourself look like a total prat infront of all sikhsangat posters! SO apparantly I'm the one gettin all "touchyfeely" about muslim jatts? LOL well first of all I'm NOT JATT u plum, so y am I gona hav some sort of affiliation with jatts? I cud care less about wat tribes ppl belong 2. How dare u try and defame my name and repuation by accusing me of perhaps sympathising with non-sikh jatts. But I hav noticed 'WestLondonSingh' n u havin some sort of spat with each other, go and sort that out, don't try insinuate that I'm gona sympathise with killers of sikhs, jus coz they belong 2 jatt tribe, ur comments r pathetic, its a joke.

However u did make 1 gud point tho, that I didn't kno, wich is regarding malerkotla muslims wanting 2 join pakistan, if true, then that sums up muslims really, as they weren't massacred due 2 the old promise frm guru gobind singhs time. Also regarding the whole muslim jatt thing, I believe most panjabi muslims r of gujjar, jatt, rajput, arain, qureshi, syed and julaha tribes, so THAT'S wat I was tryn 2 say, they arnt all jatt, einstein. U sure as hell tho seem 2 hav a problem with jatts, IF that is tru, go and sort it out with an actual jatt, not a Julaha like me. There I sed it, I've revealed my apparnt tribe.

Oh n before I go, I demand an apology from u, for tryna mug me off!

watever mate, sum1 else can try 2 explain to u, coz i can't be asked

paaji, i believe they are cleaning the sarovar paani,which has been taken out, and they are cleaning the underneathe

these bloody goreh need a slap, straight up, anyways, i thought that there r nihang "bodyguards" on all four sides with their barchha's (Spears), oh kitthe margai?

Rebel Singh, you make me laugh because your English, sometimes, sounds almost like a mobile phone/email type of english, However, within your posts you raise some of the most intelligent points and observations I have read on this site !!!

I hope you are part of an organisation were you are able to convert these intelligent points into action points and then into actions (now don't give any personal info on here because anonymity is a great weapon on the internet !!).

MEHARBAHNI paaji, but im not intelligent, im jus learning thats all, and tryna pass off wat stuff i have to others, in the hope that i can learn sumthin frm them aswell. oh and yea i do type in txt speak, jus takes less time, also i reply to some of these posts thru my blackberry, so it becomes a habit. To be honest, my fave/most intelligent poster on here are West London Singh, that brother has some tremendous knowledge! im a nobody compared 2 his knowledge. When i was growing up (working class family), all i had was a football and books (History was my fave subject), and so i have always been good at history, coz ive always had a fascination as 2 how we hav ended up as we r now.

Wud u believe that a few weeks ago i was thrown off this site, under my previous username? No warning or anything, i hope the MODS can see, i can give decent contribution 2 threads

WLS Ji,

bro thats not WLS, its "UKLondonSikh"

but I think 30years after the Muslim Jatts killed 300,000 of our people (10% of the Sikh population at the time) ... we would have done better not to push the Khalistan agenda for Indira ... because that's exactly what she wanted

right well first of all it wasnt jus muslim jatts, but muslims of different tribes who killed sikhs, and u say 300,000, well we killed more muslims, than they did 2 us, u shud research amritsar/jalandhar/ludhiana etc massacres of muslims.Our grandparents have fed us this notion that we were squeeky clean, when infact, we killed more of them. Remember a lot of sikhs still had their weapons from serving in british armies, aswell as most sikhs being landowners, so they had all their sharp tools too. We had 2 fight 2 keep certian citites in our hands, otherwise (eg - amritsar wudda ended up in pakistan), CUD U IMAGINE THAT!

"Is Looking At A Singh In A Romantic Way Wrong?"

it is if u r a man

The Sikhs in this video speak very good English no slang no ghetto.

Also i notice mona veer not wearing harrmal in the langar hall, some kids uncoverd heads in the Gurdwara, i guess things were new as Sikhs hadnt been here long.

Look how many people turned out to see the Anand Karaj

WOW!!! tremendous stuff khalsa ji "Hammertime007", u notice also how the janani at the end (newleywed) sed how important it is for them 2 teach their kids panjabi/sikhi, and also that old Buddhi who was sayin how before eating in the morning u shud naam jap etc, jus shows u how time has changed, coz as u have noticed NONE of them look like amritdharis, yet if that programme was filmed 2day in 2012, u wud expect only amritdhari/very religious family 2 say those things. Also regarding the anand karaj, i dont kno bowt u, but ive never been 2 a anand karaj/sikh wedding when the darbar wasnt packed, its always 100% capacity. Altho in india, its disgusting how only 10-15ppl wil attend the anand karaj, rest r at the hall gettin fat n drunk, luckily (in my experience) ive never witnessed that mentality here in england, long may it continue.

ALL of them

Migrant labour started coming to Punjab 30 years back but the major influx came in the 90s/00s. In the beginning we just referred to all of them as 'bhaiyeh' (Biharis), but actually most of them were from Haryana and Uttar Pradesh - many of whom Muslim.

The issue now is that they have started reviving the 'dead' mosques, and even building new ones. Guess what? Our 'peaceloving' Sikhs are helping them (monetary, lands, ...) to build THEIR places of worship in OUR 'country'. These so-called Sikhs can't be asked to help the millions (YES MILLIONS) of TRIBAL SIKHS in South and Central India, but yet are ready to help these Muslims. An ex Jathedar of Akaal Takth himself told that the next main issue in Punjab is going to be this growing number of Muslims (when the number of Muslims rise at a place, you know the consequences, see United Kingdom, Netherlands, Belgium, France etc). The Ludhiana mosque which used to be nearly empty on fridays now has over 100,000 worshippers on festivals.

PLEASE tell me u r joking? muslim growin in our panjab? i thort only malerkotla muslims were in large numbers (300,000 or so), that the first ive heard that muslims were comin in from outta states, i thought it was those dirty criminal minded bihari hindus. To be honest quite a lot of biharis (bhaiyas) have converted 2 sikhi, but we can do with these outsiders being kicked out. its no coincedence that since these biharis have influxed 2 panjab, that crime rate have gone up. Apparantly panjab population is now 1 in 5 bihari. Im gonna get criticised for this, but if i had i my way, i'd ram sikhi down everyones throats, anyone who doesnt like it, can get lost. Panjab is unique to this world, our culture is unique 2 this world, and like my man jay-z says in hard knock life "We Must Not Let Outsiders Violate our block". Panjabi and english and possibly Farsi should be spoken, NOTHING ELSE. There are south indians who r gettin more jobs abroad ahead of north indians (incl. sikhs), coz in south india NO ONE talks hindi, only their ethnic language, and english. In Panjab, dirty hindi (rip off of urdu btw) is being rammed down ppl, which is not our language, and ppl r not speakin panjabi enuff, n then they go abroad, cant find any jobs, and only speak panjabi and hindi, but not english! IDIOTS!

I understand where you are coming from on that. If a few Sikhs were doing well but the majority of our Qaum was being wiped out then I'd agree with you. However, i genuinely believe that Sikhs as a community are doing (arguably) better than many other Indian communities on a pound-for-pound basis. And this was also behind a lot of their anger at us in 1984. That we oppose the caste system and the social order that the GOI+RSS at the time wanted to preserve and that we were a Chardi Kala community.

sikhs r friggin GULAM/SLAVES in HINDUstan, END OF! stop tryna come up with that RSS/HinduPanjabi crap that, the PM/Army generals/top sportsmen r sikhs, WHO CARES! They r pickin them on their talent, not religiion. Also Most Top Bollywood Actors/Actresses r Muslim, Yet they r killed in large numbers in mumbai/gujarat riots, tearin down of babri masjid and lets not forget, that few yrs ago, salman khan was refused 2 purchase a house in the posh areas of maharashtra (probably mumbai/pune), simply coz hes a muslim.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji saroops r being burnt, n no one is being punished for it, no investigations, nothing. U kno wat, i cant b asked 2 go into WHY we r 2nd class, ill let sum 1 else do that.

i kind of agree with you here, i know it dont sound too good, but i wish that Maharaja Ranjit Singh had taken more steps to strengthen Sikhi, although it cannot be denied that he didnt do anything, he did a lot, but just some of the more basic things, like setting up Sikhi schools/centres/unversities of learning, making sure every village had a gurdwara and access to SGGS and sangat etc.

Even in my own village, there has only been a gurdwara for less than 100 years, although the village was 95% Sikh.

DAMN bro, only 100 yrs ago? how come, coz in panjab, there is a gurdwara every few 100 yards or so. In my dad's pind (Sandhwa, Nawanshaher), theres a HUGE gurdwara, called Danda Sahib. Its where the 7th guru, Guru HarRai, did some sort of miracle involving a stick.

check it out

http://www.sikhiwiki...harraidanda.jpg

i think we need to change tack and refrain from returning to the agenda that Bhindrawale ultimately failed

R U TAKING THE MICK? HE FAILED!? with wat exactly?

wakin up our stupid community, which has gone back 2 sleep, again

There is a very valid theory that less Sikhs will be killed in a peaceful movement for a Sikh State then will be killed if we remain with India.

If this is true? How many of you would take a separate Sikh State them? Like I say, some people have put this forward as a very valid thoery !!!

too much blood has been spilt, the akal takht has already declared khalistan/Freedom as our aim, no hukam from akal takht has ever been overturned, i believe. Also harmandar sahib was invaded, END OF!