rrss

Does the olive oil product have a strong scent? I've used a natural olive oil cream before which kept me awake at night.

I'm not from a sikh family, I may be able to assist with any questions you may have. PM me.

Thanks I have listened to the katha. Whilst I have great respect for the sant ji, his use of fiction and opinion takes away from the deeper spiritual value of the bani. However the katha links to relevant bani which is helpful for personal contemplation.

I don't believe that living with parents of a different religion is a appropriate use of the kamal phul paradigm which applies at a greater spiritual level to the whole of life in human form.

Of course gods natural law can't eliminated out of existence, attempting to do so is futile, however their effect can be eliminated from within.

I have found emotional attachments in particular to be a great stumbling block for my sikh brothers and sisters.

I will do vichar on the bani that you have referred to.

Could you please post the link again its not opening. Is there an English translation available?

Yes Guru nanak jis sister became a disciple, due to gods grace as He alone choses who meets the true guru, she would have become a sikh whether or not she was his sister. I'm more interested in his relationship with his parents . From my understanding they died Hindu, they did not convert to sikhism.

I never said guru ji ignored anyone, but in life choices have to be made and he chose spiritualism over his parents. Eastern culture accords great respect to parents, western culture less so. My understanding is that sikhi is above the concept of family, it is completely detached from relations of all sorts. We live a householder life as commanded by God as being his natural law, and fulfil responsibilities to family members whilst remaining emotionally detached to them. All of humanity is gods creation, wherever I look I see God and theoretical all feel like my 'family', even if the feeling is not mutual. According special status to ones parents is an entirely cultural practice. As is women having to accept her husbands parents as her own and giving up responsibilities towards her own. People are guilt tripped into giving up spiritual life "because it's a great shame to disrespect parents". And spiritual life may entail becoming a great parcharat and travelling the world and not being there for said parents.

Again I'm asking about where specifically said parents are not sikh. If they are sikh there is no problem. If they abandon their parents for selfish reasons, they will suffer for it. If so called "sahejdari" one can even hope that they will be influenced by you and take amrit, but with a different religion and way of thinking life can be difficult and one can face crossroads of serving humanity at large vs serving parents, thousands vs 2 people.

Thanks for the link. The eating food from non amritdharis topic has been debated in detail elsewhere, I'm interested in the overall relationship and responsibilities to parents, especially who are of OTHER religions entirely and therefore have extremes of differences in views especially where this impact ones spiritual journey. I'm interested in the sikhi theological point of view rather than cultural practice. Western sikhs I know see it as perfectly natural to 'fly the coop', whereas in the east they tend not to. This is purely cultural. As a small example, Guru Nanak himself refused his parents request to be there for him in their one age as he had more important work to do. Indeed I believe that emotional attachments to family is a serious roadblock to sikhs.

I would like to understand specially how guru Nanak ji himself interacted with his parents as detailed in the original post.

What does gurbani and the various janamsakhis say about the responsibilities of person towards their parents, especially if they are not sikh?

Please answer from sikhi and not a cultural point of view. Traditionally the east has had a greater focus on bending backwards to look after parents and consent to their wishes, especially when they are in old age, as opposed to nuclear family units in the west and urban centres worldwide. What is the sikhi line? Do we have parents live with us or leave them to their own devices? If living together and if they are not sikh do you permit them to practice their religion in your home even if it is anti gurmat? If one is amritdhari do you eat with /food made by them? When having to choose between living with your parents and looking after their needs in old age or doing widespread sewa to the point where such a living arrangement would be impractical and indeed where said parents may interfere (intentionally or unintentionally) with said sewa activities, what does one choose?

Guru Nanak ji is probably a good example to follow. How did he interact with his parents, who were Hindu? My understanding is that whilst he was living under their roof he disagreed with their views and practiced spirituality but still followed their instructions such as doing specific jobs, marrying when they wanted to, etc. Once he was more established in God's spiritual journey, contrary to their wishes of wanting him to look after them and be there for him in their old age, Guru ji went on his udasis to help thousand of people rather than just helping 2 people. From this it seems that the numbers of souls he could impact mattered more. It made no different that they were his parents, this accorded them no special status, he saw god in everyone and ergo saw the whole world as his family.

Did guru ji refuse to eat with his parents? Did he refuse good cooked by them? Presumably his parents lived with his wife and children whilst he was spreading the word of God. Did his parents keep hindu idols inside the home? Did they freely practice religious rituals in the home? To what extent did they impose their religion on Guru jis children, especially when they were young and Guru ji was still living under his parents roof, not yet fully established as the true Guru? Did his wife follow hindu customs? Did guru ji perform his parents funeral rites as per hindu customs?

Gurbani also constantly reminds us that mothers, fathers, children, spouses etc are not ones true support, they do not go with us in the end, we should not waste our time with minds attached to them, worrying about them only. Gurbani decries emotional attachments, to family members in particular. Gurbani also says that it is God alone who takes care of all needs and is the true support and only attachment worth having.

Again, please leave aside your personal views and experiences and please answer from a theological sikhi point of view.

This is an important issue for those whose parents are of other religions (or perhaps "sikh" in name only).

Thanks, I really do admire the nishkam seva principle and vaisakhi day is rather quite apt an ocassion for having a sanchar, but it's a trek and a half from the south coast. Is there anything further down south?

Guru Granth Sahib is JAAGDI JYOT OF 10 GURU SAHIBAAN if u can't see them in Gurbani there is problem. So if one have to see 10 Guru Sahibaan and they should get a photo of Guru Granth Sahib and hang some where in house. Or see them in Gurbani. Guru Granth Guru panth. (If you want to see me in nirgun swaroop see me in Guru Granth Sahib and u want to see me sargun swaroop see me in panth. Raise the panth and remove the photo. ) I might be qouting something wrong here but one might remember some one from this quote. If not god help you.

It is a crying shame how much people have no respect for Dhan Dhan sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. You are so lucky Guru ji is present in all Gurdwaras. Go sit at his feet and listen to Gurbani. Tell me honestly if Guru ji was in human form and visited your local Gurdwara, would you fight amongst yourselves for the 'best seat' in the darbar? Would you rather cry than to see him leave? Would you fall at his feet and refuse to leave? Would you beg guru ji for amrit? Would you beg him to sing gurbani and do katha? Probably yes. Now ask yourself if you treat the Shabad Guru, 10 patshaian ki jyot as real guru or as an idol, to be ocassionally matha theked whilst trying to visualise a painting of guru in human form.

Our soul sees the Shabad Guru and gains a lot from it. Our pathetic human eyes see the guru's human form and do not gain anything from it.

Honestly this topic should be closed, it is anti gurmat to diss Guru ji (Guru Granth sahib ji if you need reminding).

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Is there any Amrit sanchar in London/ South East England in the beginning of April?

If there is anyone out there looking to take amrit around this time, please PM me as some Gurdwaras do organise sanchar when there are a bunch of abhilakhees.

Thanks

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

If you don't care about the OP, then you're just ranting which coupled with your bigoted post on sikhs from non sikh familes I wondered whether you were a tabloid reader. If you are I would advise switching away from it, this is not very sikhi behaviour. We're trying to offer advice to the OP and be helpful and be amicable to each other. We were not even talking about 'imposing' veganism on children, OP asked about good foods. If you have a critique of a vegan diet to offer, by all means share it with us. Also you ignored my question on the difference between a vegetarian and vegan diet. Ask your medical professional friends to tell you what the medical guidance is on this and your lawyer friends to tell you the current legal situation.

In the UK, Social Services have to remove kids from parents who enforce a vegan lifestyle on their kids. The media reported on how large numbers of the medical and scientific community were worried about the vegan lifestyle on children. So, if you are old enough be a vegan if you choose to. Dont force it on your kids though, unless you want the social involved.

Please don't spread lies. The only advice is that pregnant mothers are advised to boost vitamin intake during pregnancy and during first few years of the child's life, dairy is reccommended for vegetarians and vegans. There was a one off case by a crazy local authority and the family ended up willing the legal battle that ensued.

Also if anyone has a concern about veganism causing health problems in children, they're barking up the wrong tree- a sedentary lifestyle leading to obesity and poor unplanned diet leading malnutrition is a very real problem vs nutrition conscious parents. The media has reported, utter rubbish. Are you a doctor? Do you know BMS GP guidance on veganism? I thought not. Did you even read my post where I have specifically pointed out the need for a balanced diet? There's only one difference between vegetianism and veganism- risk of B12 deficiency over years and even this is very rare unless the parents do not know what theyre doing (and trust me vegans know about this); indeed I pointed out how one can boost B12 levels to good levels.

And besides, the OP was asking about themselves not a baby?

Really HSD2, from this post and others, are you just out to belittle me or is it just your personality? Are you a tabloid reader by any chance? Are you a meat eater? Are you even an amritdhari?

Vegan is the ideal diet for amritdharis!

Vegan is an ideal diet, indeed it is the most natural diet for humans. Unless you survived on pakoras and chips you'd find it very hard to become ill or obese on a vegan diet, it is very very healthy indeed- nuts seeds vegetables and fruit along with some fungi and bacterial products provide you with 100% of your nutritional requirements. Consume mostly raw and cook some but not too much so as to denature the nutrients. I also recommend sarbloh bibek.

It is a fallacy that you cannot get enough protein from plant sources. There are even vegan protein supplements available which contain a better mix of amino acids and more easily digestible than animal sources.

Vegans just need to be extra careful about developing Vitamin B12 deficiency.

Indeed we get ALL nutrients from plant sources bar one, Vitamin B12, which is made by bacteria, and only bacteria. Animals don't make B12. Some animals have symbiotic bacteria in their gut which generates B12 as a by product for the animal host and others just build it up in the muscle through the food chain (along with dangerous diseases, toxic chemicals and indeed plastics which find their way into the food chain these days). So animals are not a good source of B12. Some people claim that dairy is an alternative source of B12, but it isn't really (read below for more about milk). There are actually natural sources of B12, e.g. it is produced as a by-product of a yeast culture (i.e. yeast extract products such as marmite etc). Multi vitamin tablets are obviously a clear winner (supported by a balanced diet). Breakfast cereals, non dairy milk and many other foods are fortified with B12. Note that B12 builds up a store in the body and deficiencies take months or years to present however if untreated the damage is irreversible. So you just need micrograms of B12 to maintain your storage. If you're concerned about your B12 levels you can have a blood test to confirm.

From an evolutionary perspective, humans are believed to naturally have the same diet as the plant eating apes. The reason they don't suffer from B12 deficiencies and why B12 deficiency is a relatively new phenomenon (in evolutionary terms) is due to our mad dash for 'cleanliness' without understanding the risks. For thousands of years we have managed without even knowing bacteria existed. We have begun to view bacteria as an unnecessarily evil which must be eradicated. So in short we have through excessively attacking the useful bacteria that would otherwise get into our food and hands, lost nature's source of providing us with this vitamin that we have co-oevolved with (it supports nervous system functions). Unfortunately this is largely irreversible due to lost resistance so can no longer surround ourselves with this healthy bacteria.

I vhemently oppose drinking from the breasts of another animal, it just isn't natural. The commonly cited arguments of calcium from milk is bogus, milk and dairy are not a good source of usable calcium. Icing on cake- around 60% of the human race is lactose intolerant- go figure. Milk also contains blood and animal proteins so really under a microscope there isn't that much difference between milk and meat. It also contains viruses and other things which humans should definitely not be consuming. Finally, If God had wanted us to be drinking mothers milk he would have made women lactate throughout life.

And from a moral point of view, indeed if you knew the cruel torture imposed on cows etc for their milk, you'd vomit it out at breakfast. Death is preferable to being treated the way they are, so eating meat is morally preferable to torturing the animal. Organic milk is a better option, but they're still commercially reared, almost always slaughtered for meat when they stop giving milk and calfs are separate from mothers for veal and/or more milk. Ethically you could keep your own milk giving animal in good conditions and utilise that milk which is in excess to the calf (I believe Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh ji followed this approach).

I nevertheless stand by the unnatural source of nutrition point. There are many vegan alternatives to milk and cheese. Consider almond, coconut, hazulnut etc milk, there many sources and are healthier than animal breast milk. However take it easy on Soy based products, you don't want to consume soy in excess as it contains oestrogen-like hormones which can upset hormonal balance.

Beign vegan also means rejection of animal sourced products but that's a subject for another time so please do not mix the two together when replying to this nutrition post.

Conclusion: Vegan is a natural diet, it digests easily and provides all the nutrients you need. Have a healthy and balanced diet and do support it with extra sources of nutrients if you know you have a particular condition such as iron anemia or are prone to B12 deficiency. I was a vegan was a long time without knowing about B12 and the fact that I was prone to a deficiency, I suffered a small deficiency which was easily treated with a few tablets. Now armed with better knowledge of B12, my mostly vegan diet provides me with exactly what my body needs for optimal survival. Also I mostly cook in sarbloh- an additional source of Iron!. I now mostly consume vegan food products and back this up with multivitamins, and occasionally include a genuine certified organic milk product. I do not purchase or eat ready made food of any description. I eat a minute amount of degh.

Anyone living in south east England want to be my friend (or based anywhere for email discussion) to talk about spirituality, God and Sikhi? PM me.

On a serious note, whether male or female, how does one find Gursikhs to make friends with when they're not very many in your city? I've met some really great sewadars at events outside my region where I've volunteered but very few through other means.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Note: Please post in the appropriate thread, there are many on the subject of Guru vs God, else create a new one. People will be searching for answers to the OP's question on this thread.

Anyways I'll quickly post some thoughts until this thread has been created: Penji, you need to reflect on this subject in more detail, please read the references quoted by others, particularly nirgun/sargun.

Some comments to think about:

-There is a huge difference between saints and a Satguru. In laymans terms, satguru is one with God and has been sent by God himself to earth (from Sachkhand) for a specific purpose. Saints have worked to achieve enlightenment or on the path towards it. All sikhs are aspiring saints. We cannot ever aspire to be a Satguru nor should we. Being one with God in sargun roop does not mean that Satguru = Formless God. Please read Guru Gobind Singh ji's writings on how and why he was sent by God.

-Our gurus are not "dead". Dhan Dhan Guru Granth Sahib ji is very much "alive" as a shabad guru. Please respect Guru ji.

-There are different forms of being 'alive' and 'dead' in Sikhi. The human body dies. Manmukhs are effectively 'dead' in a sense.

There are many useful threads on this forum and also several books on the subject that may help you. Gurbani is always available as a primary source.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Some highly disappointing responses to my post, in spite of attempts to discuss the subject, it veered off topic in the main. I deliberately didn't set out a framework for discussion, nevertheless I was disappointed that several key issues were simply ignored. Perhaps it takes one to know one? As an outsider coming into Sikhi, the level of false rituals, Houmai, dogma etc that I see around me is surprising. However, I will refrain from commenting on the posts as it will no doubt lead to an unnecessary bout of fisticuffs. Nevertheless, thank you for taking the time to contribute.

No doubt modern Sikhi will grow as time goes on and people will rediscover the teachings of the Guru. I am saddened but I have full faith in the God, I know that the Khalsa will prevail.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Admin note: Please can this topic be closed

I know you are looking for an alternative to Raj Musicals, but they are indeed known amongst ustaad circles to offer some of the best quality instruments. I have been advised that if you are particularly keen on quality you want to visit them in person and drop names of ustaads. Next best is Gurdial Singh. Otherwise Sikhsaaj.com is meant to be good and apparently "exotic-hub" seller on ebay, recommended by this Oregon based music teacher:

Sikh soldiers have been deployed all over the world.

The British used them in China.

"Used" is indeed the right word. Are Sikhs mercenaries available to the next paymaster or independent sant sipahi of the Guru, fighting righteousness and destroying tyrants and oppressors under the Guru's banner?

Well one reason is that many people might get the wrong idea and think you and your female friend are involved with each other. Also you may be a genuinly good guy with good brotherly intentions but most Indian guys are perverts/luchay and Indian girls know this and try to avoid getting too friendly with an unmarried Indian man.

Site note: That is assuming that the OP is Indian, not all Gursikhs are Indian.

But yes that is true, younger Gursikh girls of Asian origin tend to talk less freely with male counterparts for a number of reasons, especially because family and relatives are present in the Gurdwara and older generations see girls and boys being friends as taboo. Also don't forget that Gursikhs are an orthodox people and generally more reserved. In the West its not uncommon for friendships to develop into relationships and in Sikhi it is very wrong if that happens, so if a Gursikh girl feels like she is better of not having male friends because of the risks then so be it. Equally, not having female Gursikh friends may be as much a fault in your approach than that of your sisters. You say that you have mastered lust but perhaps on an unconscious level you have avoided making friends with sisters till now because of your being uncomfortable with approaching the opposite sex, which means you haven't controlled lust (assuming that you have tried and failed to make friends with sisters). Also, I make the assumption that your 'white female friends' are not Gursikh.

Secondly, don't worry about these things. We're not here to strike a balance or achieve a quota of any sort. Male or female should not make a difference, you should not feel the need to specifically make friend with girls just for the sake of redressing a perceived imbalance. Make friends with Gursikhs for their qualities.

Moh maya di gal karde sab.... Moh to dur rehen nu kende.... mainu eh samajh ni aunda... Je rabb naal moh ni howega te unhu banda manega kida....

I can feel the pain..... when i think of Guru Gobind Singh g and his sacrifice not The almighty...

If i will not be emotional how can i follow my Guru... Emotions are necessary.... Jee Jida apna apne significant other naal dil launde aa.. oda hi rabb naal lana penda e.... emotions are needed.....

Moh is not "emotions", it is (emotional) attachments. Having empathy, feeling someone else's pain and acting on it by helping them is a quality. Being attaching to people, objects etc, separation of which causes distress and presence of which causes joy is an attachment not worth having. The only attachment worth having is being attached to His lotus feet.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

I am Amritdhari

Work is worship

U sitl ideal... n think rabb aake hath te har chiz dega te datz not possible ryt...!!

Fantastic, you are Amritdhari, you are on the right path.

It is not a matter of sitting idle and expecting God to deliver food to your door. If one has complete faith in the Lord then you will understand that whatever He gives, you Receive. Someone working hard and getting money and paying for food does generate 'food on the table', it's all in His hands, think of it this way, you work hard and have faith on God and he blesses you with your needs. At the end of a day when you are enjoying the rewards of your hard work, do you thank yourself for doing the hard work or do you thank God for providing everything? It's mind boggling but even if we are working hard, our needs will only be satisfied if he wills it to happen. Also if your job was really coming in the way of giving enough time to Sikhi (that couldnt be solved by simply making greater effort to wake up as others have said) then it need not be that way, if that's what you really want and you sincerely ask God to provide for you then you can give enough time to Sikhi without worrying about the consequences. God will provide, it may through a new less demanding job or something else, it would be up to us to let go of our ego and accept a lower paid job and manage with less money.

A chardi kala Gursikh sister I know recently quit her well paid job as a lecturer because it was simply too demanding, she wants to give more time to simran and sewa. So she gave up a golden career opportunity and is now instead running a free coaching centre for disadvantaged youth. God provides for her and she has faith in him to provide.

Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh ji, whilst working towards realising Waheguru didn't show up to his office for months. When he returned, he was surpised to find that all his work had been done and nobody had noticed that he had gone (described in his autobiography). So, this is not a philosophical ideal, this is reality.

Please do some quiet contemplation on the subject, discussing on this forum won't help you, only the shabad Guru will give you intuitive understanding.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

There is nothing to laugh at.....

Work comes first ...... Rabb da ki aa.... oh te hamesha hi kol aa

My dear sister, who is it that provides for all of our needs? Try and feel the pain your soul is experiencing through cycles of transmigration and being stuck in the emotional swamp of Maya. Try and contemplate his Hukam. Drink the ambrosial nectar of amrit and the Guru will bless you with divine understanding.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Do your own mool mantar my sibling. Feel each and every word and contemplate on the deeper meanings as you go along. Sing Wahegurus praises. Throw in some gurmantar too. Connect with it.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Ritualistic thinking all. Nothing is transferred whilst eating langar or indeed ingesting anything other than Amrit (and even then successful 'transfer' is dependent on a number of other factors). You may adopt such an approach as a general life rule to encourage yourself to do the 'right' things in life but at the risk of it becoming a ritual over time. Also if anything does contain any form of "blessings", quantity makes no difference. A teaspoon of karah prasad has the same "blessing" value as two large fistfulls, if one could indeed value a blessing (rhetorical question). "Blessings" are in quotation marks because what you receive is entirely dependent on your state of mind and the act of consuming it (plus the usuals- jeevan, hukam, karam etc), i.e. humbly accepting prasad at the feet of the Guru and believing it to be his blessing may have some effect but greedily consuming fistfuls and covering your hands and face with ghee may do nothing (it's all dependent on the Guru and God's grace and your jeevan, nothing is actually physically transferred from the prasad). Equally nothing "bad" is ever "transferred" in such a way. The Sakhi quoted has a moral story which needs to be understood, it's not to be taken literally that you can literally transfer a hundred pimples to someone else, it was the act of greed that was the moral story.

God is the sole provider and we receive whatever he provides. It's not a specific act of consumption which needs to be 'paid for', it's in general throughout life whether one continually consumes more than they need and/or do no sewa, or on the other hand consumes only what they need, believing in Waheguru providing everything they will need and not hesitating in doing any form of selfless sewa. This fits in with eating langar sparingly, when required and not worrying about making sure you put extra money in golak every time you eat, or for that matter, not eating because you don't want to lose your so called simran "bank account balance".

The moment you start billing and accounting individual acts of service and consumption, all your sewa/simran "balance" become worthless as the bigger message has completely gone past you. You are constantly reminded by Guru ji to think purely in terms of the bigger picture, the vices and virtues, the power of God, hukam, etc rather than ritualistic practices, but few listen and fewer apply it to their lives.

PS. I generally don't eat Langar for other reasons and I am very grateful to the Guru and God for this great service that even I, a worthless greedy worm, have benefited from; when I really needed it, langar was there for me. There is nothing I can ever do to 'repay' Guru/God, his grace is priceless.

This thread should really be closed.