rrss

Waheguru

Also on Gurdwara langar in general, it should at least follow very basic bibek i.e. healthy and simple food based on what the body needs. Anyone commenting on the great taste of sabzi at langar needs to work on trying to taste har ras, all other tastes are left wanting, indeed hunger is forgotten whilst absorbed in His glorious presence. Waheguru!

The gursikhs you have spoken to probably observe bibek and simply haven't given you a good explanation. Bibek is not just about how food is prepared. There are some good articles on the internet and this forum explaining it, please have a look.

On a less serious note, as far as transferring some simran to someone else, I don't believe thats possible otherwise we would all be outsourcing our simran requirements to Indian call centres and assuredly reach sachkhand thanks to 'Joe' from Mumbai. And if it were possible, a gursikh would not hesitate to help someone else in such a manner.

Getting serious again, perhaps the gursikh in question was referring to an old (punjabi) wives' tale which essentially says that if you eat langar without having paid for it, then you are being greedy and will suffer take on the karam of the person who has prepared it or generally get karam from 'free food' offered at houses (+karam=losing simran using this twisted logic?), so do not eat at anyone's house and don't eat langar unless necessary and if so, put money in golak if you can afford to. Rubbish, of course.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Southampton Singh Sabha Gurdwara uses tables and chairs in the langar hall.

Daas gave it a shot, took the opportunity to raise this issue at the general meeting held on Sunday 6/1/13, including distributing copies of the original Sri Akal Takht hukamnama.

I was shot down and treated like dirt. I nevertheless persisted to ask for a formal response. Excuses began to unfurl, ranging from the 'hukamnana is old', 'jathedar is not current', then 'it's not signed, go get an original signed copy from Akal Takht' then 'the other Gurdwara down the road has tables and chairs' then 'tables and chairs are actually allowed you are wrong'. I pleaded for the granthi to help me but he took their side. All excuses as I am aware they initially did comply with the order but then reverted back to tables and chairs.

All this in front of Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

What should my next steps be? I have heard of people being excommunicated for this issue. How does one inform Sri Akal Takht sahib? There are other important issues also which I raised and which were ignored. Is anyone willing to join me to form a group to put pressure on the committee? There are very few relatively young gursikhs in the sangat here, so we need help from the wider sadh sangat. Please PM me.

Thank you

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

"my job is important for me.. as i get food from it... i cant leave my job and praise god.... but i still want to be close to him... "

LOL

Camp looks great, wish I could rewind the years!

PS. Any camps for older adults?

Surely deleting a topic on homosexuality is a bit harsh, what message does that send out? Taboo for Sikh Sangat?

Anyways if the OP ever sees this, please PM me if you would like to discuss offline.

is there a word limit on posts? I put a lot of Gurbani on this thread and it timed out and now the thread no longer opens (500 internal server error)

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

I can sympathise with your situation, I have had no family support and have had to build my own support network. With Vaheguru's grace you can get through this phase.

Where do you live? Perhaps I can suggest some good networks in your area. How old are you?

Send me a PM if you want to discuss.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

I actually don't see no "milestone" here. I don't understand why anybody, in this day and age of corruption, etc would want to join the army which is used as a power tool against smaller countries by the elite. But these are my personal opinions.

here here. "sikhs" have been fighting for various paymasters for centuries. we are sant sipahi of guru ji exclusively and should not be a soldier under any other banner whatsoever, rather leading peaceful and spiritual lives, away from politics etc.

There is a big difference between shunning the world (i.e. natural life) and living a pure life (Khalsa lifestyle). We are meant to face up to life and it's challenges instead of reouncing it. We are meant to live the way God has intended us to live, i.e. a natural simple life with family. We are not meant to renounce regular life, i.e. live in caves/wader and beg or renounce family and become celibate. Nor are we meant to be attached to worldly comforts, the best comfort is being attached to His lotus feet and best occupation is singing His praises and best hobby is remembering His name.

Orthodox rehat clearly encourages Amridharis to spend as much time as possible with the faithful and not even eat food with the non Amritdharis. Is Guru ji telling us to mix with society by this rehat? We are to break away from creature comforts and live simple and pure life. Is Guru ji telling us that sitting on our asses in offices in stressful jobs are good? All Gurus worked hard and some even tilled land. They did not sit back and relax and watch television. Are you saying their lifestyle was bad? They surrounded themselves with faithful and had zero need for today's technology. Heck, Guru's established new towns and cities like AnandPur Sahib which was self-sustaining and in a highly spiritual atmosphere. So there is no precedence for this you say? Was it not good enough for Guru ji to establish their Gurdwaras and Holy Cities at Hindu holy sites, why need for new towns for Sikhs? Did they surround themselves by Sikhs and saints or did they surround themselves with faithless and others? Did they encourage poetry and scholars, saints and hard working people or those who lived lazy lifestyle with comforts. The equivalent of 'modern technology' in that era was being rich and powerful. Did they encourage a simple Sikh to wash his own kaccera or hire a Dobhi (washing machine)? Did they encourage Sikhs to read scriptres or play games (video games)? Did they encourage Sikhs to do community service and write poetry or spend time intermixing with 'society' and purchasing non essential goods (malls) and doing gossip (Facebook). Did they encourage living together or living in dispersed communities (phone, aeroplanes). I can give you many examples.

They being perfect masters must have had foresight of this 'modern' world. Why did they not prepare us for it? Heck they could have if they wanted to even given us the knowledge of electricity then and there. But they continued to encourage the simple and traditional lifestyle with minimal attachments, surrounded by other Sikhs, for a reason, I am sure I need not enumerate the benefits of living in an orthodox community in orthodox lifestyle, the way the Gurus and the panj piare lived.

The only thing lacking in Amish lifestyle is that they don't allow anyone to join them nor do they care about helping others. We would accept those wiling to live a Sikh life into our homes. Our responsibility is for sewa and upholding righteousness in larger society, so we can send envoys and humanitarian force out to do this.

Forum died for a bit yesterday, the moment I submitted a post. The post subsequently disappeared so maybe I broke the forum? :mellow2: I've reposted since and It's fine. Contained media link and a hyperlink.

you're welcome....? :D

So, getting back to the original topic, if Crocodile Dundee saw my kirpan, I know what he would say!

You can do whatever you want. I am sure that someone here will even quote so and so well known person who wore several karas. The point is that the Kara is a practical tool. If you need more than 1 for it to serve it's purpose for you individually then sure, why not? So as long as it doesn't become purely a ritual without any practical significance. I would aspire to wean away from 2 to 1 as one becomes more spiritual as 1 should be more than sufficient.

Edit: Hopefully you wear both karas above shirt sleeves, visible at all times? If you don't then you might as well nor wear any, as an invisible kara is nearly useless!

:o1:14 hai rabba!!!!! close your eyes everyone!!!

joking we're all mature people here that can deal with it.

OOps, didn't watch the video beyond the knife scene. Updated link to one which leaves out the kiss :blush2:

The Amish are known for simple living, work ethic and their orthodoxy. They are committed to living a simple traditional lifestyle and are very religious. They get by without the need to integrate with 'modern' society and use modern conveniences; they are happy the way they life their life and have a big focus on family. Indeed their lifestyle offers them great health and spiritual benefits as has been proven through studies (there is little incidence of tobacco and drug problems, STDs and other lifestyle influenced diseases and most are serious Christians). They are not interested in converting outsiders or even dealing with them. They lose very small members of their community to the 'modern' world and other Church groups (indeed teenagers are allowed to leave the community after experiencing modern life, but most choose their religion, way of life to be more important than worldly attractions).

This is nearly a perfect way of living for orthodox Sikhs. Neither renouncing family life nor integrating with non-orthodox, but following the lifestyle and values taught by the Gurus. We are meant to be working hard and being spiritual and becoming detached from worldly attractions, which satisfies most requirements. The only issue is the requirement to be helping the poor and oppressed (i.e. those outside of their community), which I'm sure they could do in many ways like running worldwide relief groups and peace camps and sending humanitarian and sant-sipahi envoys around the world, and also allowing 'outsiders' (any race) to join the community if they wanted. It would not be a political grouping by any means and have no political leaders, just purely spiritual and religious as per pure Gurmat values.

Some orthodox Namdharis live in a self-contained community to some extent, but they don't necessarily life a Gurmat Khalsa lifestyle. We could learn a lot also from groups like art of living and others who spread peace and have some good humanitarian operations around the world (incidentally, are Punjabi Sikhs even bothered with destroying tyrants and oppressors outside of India? Or doing sewa outside of Punjab/Delhi where children are dying of hunger?). So we have plenty of 'best practice' to learn from various places to use in the establishment of said group. The existence of the Amish and their being accepted and tolerated in society gives precedence to set up such groups even the USA.

Or are Sikhs too busy just moving to the west/big city to open a corner shop, make a load of money, make their children used to a rich lifestyle, not inspire them so that they become monas and live a comfortable life with worldy attachments, with occasionally the odd person becoming religious (due to past life spirituality perhaps) but still not leading an ultra-orthodox lifestyle? Or are the Sikhs who would be potentially interested in this, more interested in making a pocket of Punjab/Brampton a sikh religous state? (Method above would be much more efficient and practical than fighting the Indian Government for self-rule Indeed imho 'raj karega khalsa' is more a situation of pure and fair society than politically established state). Only 15 % of Sikhs are Amritdhari, and a small percentage of them would be willing to live a purely orthodox lifestyle, purely based on the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib ji and an orthodox rehat.

How about oxthodox sikh groups forming closed simple communities like the Amish, anywhere in the world which is suitable? Before the 20th century, pioneers regularly formed new communities and groups, migrating in search of better lands for future generations. If I started a community, would you join me? Of course a good set of panj piare would be required for the spirituality and community resources to purchase a tract of land. We could even have it in the Australian outback, plenty of space there.

Daas is a lowly worm who just wants the best spiritually inspiring conditions for his family and sees this in the ideal described above.

normal + wall supporter. I'm gradually migrating away from the walls inch by inch.

Some more types:

21 The Asana shufflers. They can be found moving mysteriously from one place to another like a hovervraft, whilst in the cross legged position. They resemble floating penguins. They may be bored, cold, have spotted a friend or a pillar in the distance to lean on to. Unfurled ground sheets and toppled over children can be found in their 'wake'.

22 The beat-the-granthi-to-the-next-tuk type. They actually come in two varieties- the first become very excited when they know the particular paath being recited. They don't just want to sing along, but rather want to beat the granthi by yelling out the first word of the next tuk even whilst the last line is still being read. The second variety mysteriously appear at akhand paths and play the beat-the-granthi-to-the-next-tuk game, by reading out paath on their mobiles. The Asana shuffers are instantly attracted to this type and hover over to them.

23 The side wall oogling uncles. They typically position themselves along the side walls for the best view to the other side of the hall. Committee members are typically interspersed among them.

24 The Gung-ho type. They only show up for gatka class. They can occasionally be found distributing leaflets. At all other times, they remain hidden.

25. The oh-so-cool-bandanna type. These are mona men who decide that the scarf they were given should really only cover a bit of the forehead; their dasam duar must be fully revealed for maximum spiritual benefit. They will typically be really excited when prasad is distributed and leave instantly afterwards.

26. The what-am-I-doing-here variety. They normally have a look of pure bewilderment on their faces like they had been abducted by aliens for probing experiments.

27. The hip-raagi. The Hip Raagi uses a shortened Fateh which leaves one fumbling for words and makes it a point to say his phone number in English in a loud voice such as to make sure it's understood. He will rather die than have someone else have a bigger Nok style turban in the room.

28. The hip jathedar. Long white beard notwithstanding, the Hip Jathedar will have the latest ringtones. He will take the ringing phone out of his chest pocket, examine it, contemplate for a moment or two, but never answer it. Ever.

29. The make up artists. These women would rather wither and die than be without layers of face paint. They strive to cover every square inch of visible face with some variety of make up.

30. The bewildered eager non Punjabi. They make a great effort to maintain bana and attend all services. However when engaging in conversation in pind dialect punjabi they develop a look of bewilderment. They nod and agree wholeheartedly in response to any question or statement. Surrounding conversation stops whilst the poor chap is saying 'yes yes I agree' when the other party asks for some information.

So before the taksal style kirpan everyone just wore 3 ft swords as a 'kirpan' kakkar? If they had smaller version, did it look any different from the taksali kirpan?

Another question regarding gatra- does the upper loop need to remain fixed on the handle? The kirpan seemingly can't be fully removed from the sheath with gatra loop fixed on the handle.

Thanks.

This extract is from Bhai Sahib's Autobiography (English translation of Jail Chittia). Free download from Amazon. Very inspiring, strongly recommend. He wrote loads of other books as well on Sikh theology, spirituality etc.

If anyone wants Amrit in London area ASAP, please PM me. I have asked for Amrit, a Gurdwara is happy to arrange but prefer to have more than 1 amrit seeker.

Thanks, I would strongly recommend SIkhi Store!