Raju

& basically just another point.

In Pakistan's punjab you guys have created a mess.

and now you make cute sales pitch to involve sikhs in that mess.

As if another party in your scrapping match will help things out.

It's your karma man, you and your ancestors created that unholy mess.

now deal with it yourself.

as predicted you have no answers.

there are three types of Pakistani muslim punjabis

1. Liberal muslim punjabi:

A liberal muslim punjabi is one who hates all Indians, Hindus and all non-muslims.

2. Hardline muslim punjabi:

A hardline muslim punjabi is one who hates all Shias, Ahmadiya.

3. Extremist muslim punjabi:

An extremist muslim punjabi is one who hates anyone who is smarter than he is.

Pashtuns are settling in large numbers in Karachi, because they are being discouraged from settling in Muslim Punjab.

Pashtuns are not being allowed to settle in Lahore in large numbers. So they are settling in HIndko-speaking areas of Punjab, which is bordering to KP. not any further.

Whatever a Muslim Punjabi may say or claim, Pashtuns are at war with muslim pakistani punjabis.

Pashtuns are mostly Sunni except for an odd tribe or 2. Pakistani muslim punjabis have lots of Shia, Ahmadiya & minority living amidst them.

muslim Pakistani Punjabis are afraid of Pashtuns and their intentions whatever they may say to contrary.

muslim Pakistani Punjab has always been invaded by the Pashtuns and not vice versa. Only exception was during rule of Ranjit Singh.

muslim Pakistani Punjab is wary of giving more space in Lahore and Islamabad to Pashtuns. They gave once and result was Lal Masjid.

Pashtuns do not accept Durand Line between Pakistan and Afghanistan. They claim KP as Afghan province.

There are no hospitals, industries or any jobs in Khyber Pakthun and as a result they will keep flooding into muslim punjab whenever they can.

there makes for a constant state of war in muslim Pakistan in future.

Pakistani army only serves interests of muslim punjabi pakistanis and is thus viewed with suspiscion by Pashtuns and everybody else.

Pakistani army recruits 90% from muslim punjabis who have never participated in a winning war. So all their anger is taken out on non-Punjabis in Pakistan.

Last noted, before Operation Zarb-e-Azb main industries in Miranshah and Mir Ali in KP were manufacturing belt bombs and suicide vests and IED trucks.

Other 'industry' worth note was sale of meat and butchering. Both animals and human.

Donkey meat is the most popular meat in muslim Punjab because all other meat is always in short suppy and donkey meat is sold as mutton, beef etc.

Considering the state of tools industries and industrial development in Pakistan, it is going to be very difficult to build nukes that have consistent quality and then it is also a question of survivability after the first nuke has been launched.

think it through, you are just 90 million.

on opposite side is 1.3 billion + some 100 million in Afghanistan.

who will win ?

even with a good margin of error and propbability of missing everything. It would still mean end of Pakistan Punjab. It is not a large area of land to target.

then after launching the first nuclear device, think like nothing else will be allowed to even lift off from this territory of muslim Punjab.

you are living on borrowed time, and making big comments like muslim pakistan is future of punjabi ha.

first try to live without being bumped off by some stray bullet.

then after you live long enough, and your country survives then it can be a debate.

no money in pocket.

no industry to subsist upon.

no security worth it's name.

no dignity for women.

no value for life

if this is the future, then it is a very bleak future.

Wrong.

In Europe, over-all TFR of Muslims in 2.2 and decreasing. (PEW report, 2010).

Give me credible sources for your numbers.

Let me tell you what I think is future of muslim punjabis in pakistan.

Either they shape up and remove religious extremism .... which is not easy to do, because if it was easy it would have been done already.

They will have a war with every other section in Pakistan. Like Baluchis vs Punjabi, Sindhi vs Punjabi, Mohajir vs Punjabi, Pashtun vs Punjabi.

Again this will not harm the Punjabis in Pakistan to a life-threatening extent. Punjabis of Pakistan will still carry on business as usual.

But if their terrorism against foreign countries continues, which will continue because they have no option and they are ruled by military.

Muslim Pakistan Punjab will be taken out. And so will 1/3rd of it's population.

90 million people will not hold 1.5 billion people to ransom.

Take a wrong step and you will be nuked out of your wits. Multiple times. Every living creature, Goat, Buffalo in Punjab will be finished.

What you do back is a cost that we are willing to bear. But will not let you escape.

Escape routes are being closed one-by-one and once every door is closed it's time for Armageddon.

So you as a nation are living on borrowed time. Not even trees will be spared.

First part of that article

First Person Second Draft: Since 1984

Here is Shekhar Gupta's version, take it as a critic of the Sant ji or a neutral's version of events in 84

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/first-person-second-draft-once-upon-a-bloody-time/99/

There lived and died a man called Bhindranwale. Charismatic and chilling, he wrote this country’s present and future as no one has done post-Independence. A little footnote: once, he pulled my leg and I needed to check his arm-length.

At the many events to mark the release of my latest book, Anticipating India, one question I am inevitably asked is to name the three most interesting people I have met in my life as a journalist. At one of these, a very young member of the audience, pushed me to go beyond the mainstream politicians of today. “Tell us about some others we may not be so familiar with,” she said. I let my mind slip backwards into the past. The most interesting? Why not Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. “But who was he, sir? Was he a nice guy?” was the follow up.

Now, I understand that this is the era of the post-Google generation. Why should it bother about anything that preceded Google, and even the internet? More importantly, why recall the bad dreams, in fact one of the the worst nightmares, of our country’s recent history (yes, 30 years is recent, too)? Why blame a bright 19-year-old, even I had forgotten the man who defined my working life for an entire year (summer of 1983 to ’84), gave me many scoops, stories, memories and old reporter’s tales, but also wrote this country’s present and future as no one Indian has done in our post-Independence history. Good or bad, evil or nice.

Though I was tempted to read out to my curious young questioner the injunction that my old friend and colleague Shailaja Bajpai holds out to her wards at our little but wonderful Express Institute of Media Studies (EXIMS), where she tells batch after batch that “Nice” is a brand of biscuits, not an adjective for reporters to misuse.

But why did I think of Bhindranwale when pushed on that question? Maybe I was influenced by the fact that I had visited the Golden Temple twice in recent weeks, during the election campaign, so three-decade-old memories were refreshed. It struck me — sadly — that it was the first time since early childhood that I was visiting a peaceful Golden Temple as a humble devotee and getting that ultimate benediction, a kada (steel bangle) blessed at the Akal Takht. All my memories and references so far had been from the 1978-89 period of various degrees of violence. I start at 1978 because that was when, on Baisakhi (April 13), a clash took place between Bhindranwale’s supporters and a congregation of the Nirankari sect. Thirteen of his followers were killed, and suddenly an unknown young preacher became a name known nationally. I also became conscious that we were now heading for the 30th anniversary of Operation Blue Star, not only one of the most traumatic events in our history but also one with the longest-lasting consequences. And I apologise for sounding like such a cynical, insensitive newshound, but it was also the biggest story of my career, made so particularly by the fact that when the army banished the entire rabble of domestic and foreign press on the evening of June 3, filling them into buses that dropped them off directly in Delhi under armed escort, I was among the three reporters who managed to stay back to chronicle and later tell the story. One, Subhash Kirpekar of The Times of India, way senior to us all, is sadly no more. The other was Brahma Chellaney (yes, your famous strategic pundit and TV talking head), who then worked for the Associated Press (of America).

I may have been walking as a devotee now, head bowed on the parikrama but, instinctively and inevitably, my points of references were the two Ramgarhia Bungas (towers) on which the sandbagged machine-gun nests of militants were stockaded, the image of the bags and bodies sent flying when struck by the army’s howitzers (on June 4, 1984, exactly 30 years tomorrow), the Guru Ram Das Sarai terrace overlooking the Golden Temple, where Bhindranwale originally held court and routinely updated his hit lists — in public (basically it meant adding new names and striking out those who had been “sorted out”), the Akal Takht building, the supreme seat of Sikh spiritual and temporal power with the authority to issue Hukamnamas (the Sikh equivalent of encyclicals or ecclesiastical bulls) to the community, where he finally took control of his faith’s Vatican and where he met his end on June 6, 1984, 30 years this Friday, grenade shrapnel hitting his face first and then an entire carbine burst from an infantryman cutting him down. But not before nearly 2,000 lives had been lost, 136 of them from the army — the highest casualties suffered by our armed forces in a domestic operation ever in 24 hours — and those of anything from 600 to 1,000 innocent pilgrims. Dead, along with Bhindranwale, were his most committed lieutenants, Major General (retired) Shabeg Singh, Bhai Amrik Singh, the handsome, articulate but fiery deputy from whose father Bhindranwale had inherited the position of the head of Damdami Taksal, an ancient and conservative religious seminary in Mehta, near Gurdaspur, and several others. No, Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale was no saint. Nor was he even a nice man, and I would dare to defy Shailaja’s injunction here to use that word. But he was the most interesting human being I have ever met and dealt with as a journalist, and god knows I have met more than a few of those in 37 years.

And he was one of the most talented, charismatic and, in the end, recklessly courageous. You had to be so, to make a last stand in an ancient building, fighting off repeated assaults by six of the finest infantry battalions of the army, besides the commandos, Vijayanta tanks firing from their main guns, APCs, 3.7-inch mountain howitzers, the venerable, World War II, 25-pounders, helicopter patrols, for 36 hours.

Luring desperate assault troops and young officers into the killing ground between the Akal Takht and Darshani Deori, where the causeway to the Temple begins, and cutting them down with machine guns sited to cover every inch, and peeping out of the slits cut out of the Akal Takht’s centuries-old marble walls. You had to be reckless to fight there, knowing the inevitability of the end. Or you had to be delusional.

There was a bit of that to Bhindranwale too. In fact, quite a bit. He had begun to believe the mythologies spread about him by himself and his devotees. That he was an embodiment of the divine, that his victory and the formation of a new Sikh state were preordained, that in a holy war against the Hindu state, his Sikhs were obviously going to win. He genuinely believed that till the last moment. To him, the only inevitability in that murderous June week was fateh, victory. Shikast, or defeat, was for “Bibi’s” (as he addressed Indira Gandhi) army. I was among the very small group of reporters whom he gave an audience to over glasses of a herbal concoction (banafsha was his preference, tea and coffee were forbidden, like all intoxicants) just before the army fully slammed the trap shut. A kind of last supper (see picture, three decades ago, you still have a reporter with sleeves rolled and back rounded in a manner that, in later years, would be your physio’s nightmare).

Bibi and her Hindu Congress, he said, had declared war on the Sikhs, and he was ready for the last battle and victory.

“But how will you fight the might of an entire army,” we asked, “they even have tanks lined up near the kotwali (old police station).”
“Dus diyo ehnan nun kis taran ladoge singho, (tell them how you will fight, my lions),” he said, “you will be victorious, you just have to mentally prepare to fight Russian commandos.”

“Why Russian commandos Santji?” I asked.

“Because Sikhs in the Indian army won’t fight us and the topiwallahs (Hindus) won’t be able withstand us. So Bibi will have no choice but to seek Russian commandos,” he said with a smirk that, to those familiar with him by now, usually meant a death sentence. Just that in this case, it was a death sentence for himself, almost all his followers present there and thousands of others.

My limited hack’s vocabulary and pen do not have the descriptive flourish or the turn of phrase to do a portrait of that once-in-many-generations character with any degree of fairness. He was taller than most of us, born in 1947, so a Midnight’s Child, and between 35-37 years (he died at 37), had a standout aquiline nose, wiry (healthy) vein-studded legs that stood out from his long, loose kurta that just about hung below the traditional Sikh underwear, or the kachcha, no weapon on his body barring the ritual kirpan and a trademark stainless steel arrow that he carried as a general would flaunt his swagger stick. He had brilliant, studied delivery with perfect pauses to let his audiences enjoy his wisecracks or thirst in anticipation of the punchline, infra-red eyes and, most importantly, a laser wit and repartee. Of course, you could never answer back or join an argument with him. Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale did not run a parliament or panchayat in the Golden Temple. His was a medieval court with sub-medieval instant justice, and nobody would dare disagree with him or even protest when he pilloried you with cruel sarcasm or simply piled you with humiliation. My first conversation with him, in August 1983, was no different from any other visiting journalist’s, Indian or foreign.

“Weren’t you born a Hindu,” he asked.

“Yes, Santji, though like all Hindus, we pray at the gurdwaras as well,” I said, put somewhat on the defensive already.

“Oh, you do, of course,” the smirk appeared, “so tell me the names of the gods you pray to in your mandir.” And then he carried on without waiting for me to answer.

“Bhagwan Ram, Krishna, Shiva, Brahma, Vishnu, have you seen any of them without full head of hair and beards?” he asked.

Even if you wanted to say that most of the Hindu iconography was clean-shaven, you did not somehow gather the courage to do so. In fact, nobody did. Christians, Muslims, Parsis, they were all given the same treatment.

“Now, aren’t your gods like your father?” he would now ask, and you’d have no choice other than to say, yes, of course.
“So your father never shaved and cut his hair, while you are clean-shaven. What do we call a child who doesn’t resemble his father,” he would now turn the knife or, rather, give the cue to his congregation, which would avoid using the “h” word but would break into a collective snigger.

“That’s why I say, Shekharji (or whoever his victim was that day), keshan di hatya band kar dawo (stop murdering your hair, literally), start looking like your forefathers so we will all call you a decent, legitimate son.”

This was the treatment every visiting journalist was subjected to, in full public view of a delirious congregation, on his or her first visit. And this somehow softened you. No journalist ever openly contested what he said or argued with him except, to an extent, two, in varying degrees. The first was our very own Tavleen Singh, herself a fiercely proud Jat-Sikh. Bhindranwale never fully got the better of her but got his cheap thrills, and amused his doting congregation by referring to her in her absence as that “Sikh patrakar who plucks her eyebrows (jehdi bhoan patdi hai)”. The other, old Satinder Singh, The Tribune’s bureau chief from Delhi and much older than all of us (he was film star Dev Anand’s schoolmate and bosom pal, and Khushwant Singh’s alter ego), got away with more. He even got Bhindranwale to laugh, genuinely laugh, not snigger or smirk when he told him, one evening, that if Khalistan became a reality, he would have to emigrate to “vilayat (Britain)”.

“Why, Satinderji?” asked Bhindranwale, with (probably) mock concern, “don’t you think Khalistan will need budhijeevis (intellectuals) too?”
“It may, Santji, but I will tell you my problem,” said the irrepressible Satinder, “Hindus will not let me live in India because I am a Sikh, and you won’t let me live in Khalistan because I am padhiya-likhya (well educated). So I will go to England.”

It was the only time I saw Bhindranwale let someone else win an argument, even if it was a joke. He justified it to the audience, however. Something like, in any family, there was the odd offspring who was uncontrollable. You have to tolerate those types. Of course, Bhindranwale was still laughing, in fact, giggling. The only time I ever saw him do that in possibly 30 encounters. Once, I froze as I saw him tick off a very old woman who bent to touch his feet. He nearly threw her off her feet, admonishing: “Don’t you do this. What will people say, an 80-year-old woman and a 36-year-old sant.” Sorry again, Shailaja, but he wasn’t a nice man.

I have said often that the subcontinent specialises in producing a unique type of demagogue, with the ability of picking up the grievances of a minority when it is most vulnerable and then magnifying and amplifying them brilliantly to create widespread popular outrage. Even in that formidable pantheon, Bhindranwale was at the very top. One of the finest accounts of the way his “court” functioned has been written by Tavleen in the chapter she wrote for a book, The Punjab Story, published by Roli Books after Operation Blue Star and later republished in 2009 on its 25th anniversary, where Lieutenant General Jagjit Singh Aurora, Khushwant Singh, M.V. Kamath, Kirpekar, Sunil Sethi, the CPI’s Amarjit Kaur and I also contributed chapters. She describes the case of one Leher Singh, who Bhindranwale presented to his audience in her presence (I wasn’t there that day). His beard looked like it had been rudely hacked with a large knife. He said he was from village Jatwali in Fazilka district, bordering Punjab in Pakistan, and that his beard had been cut off by Thanedar (inspector) Bichhu Ram. Six months later, Bichhu Ram was shot dead. Tavleen wrote later how she never realised then that she had seen a death sentence being delivered.

However devout he was, Bhindranwale was really no man of god, no realised master who had conquered ego and vanity, if other worldly desires. In any congregation, he always wanted to be the centre of attraction and hated anybody stealing the limelight. On several of those visits to the Golden Temple, I was accompanied by (or, correction, I accompanied) Raghu Rai, the greatest celebrity photographer in five decades. Raghu, with his locks, tall, wiry frame, shirts in exotic weaves and undone really low to expose oodles of chest hair, many cameras, humongous lenses dangling from his neck barely providing tantalising cover, if at all, was a real magnet for Bhindranwale’s rustic audiences, and he did not like it one bit. Particularly when, one winter afternoon at his sarai terrace, Raghu sat soaking in the sun on the parapet. He attracted a lot of attention.

“Shekharji, tell your photowallah to get off that munder (parapet),” said Bhindranwale.

Nobody usually asked him why, and it wasn’t such an impossible demand, so I told Raghu that Santji wanted him to get down and either stand or sit with the congregation on the floor, like me, lower than Bhindranwale.

“Why, what is the problem,” Raghu, a prima donna if you’ve seen one (albeit a true genius with the camera), asked with just a hint of petulance.

“Tell him, Shekharji, to get off that parapet. Or he may just roll over and die, and then the whole world will say santaan ne maar ditta (that the sant killed him).”

This time even Raghu obeyed.

On another occasion, possibly just a couple of weeks before Operation Blue Star, I went to see him along with my frequent fellow-travellers to Punjab and one of the greatest reporter-writers of all time, Edward Behr of Newsweek (check out his reporter’s memoir, Anyone Here Been Raped and Speaks English?). Behr was quite a spirited old man, one whom nothing would ever bother or irritate. On long drives through terror-soaked Punjab, he would regale you with stories from the battlefront, reportage as well as the years he spent as an officer in the Indian army’s Garhwal Regiment before Independence. As we got up to leave, he hobbled a bit, as old people, particularly foreigners, do because they are not used to squatting.

“Why is the gora (white man) hobbling,” asked Bhindranwale.

I asked Behr what Santji wanted to know.

“Oh, just tell him my foot has gone to sleep,” said Behr, just a little dismissively, and Santji did not miss it even as I played the honest interpreter.

“His foot has not gone to sleep,” he said, turning to his fully armed audience now, “the white man’s legs are trembling at the sight of our Sten guns.”

Up came a spirited bole so nihal. There was no way Santji was going to let anybody, even a benign old gora journalist, walk away with the last laugh. Of course, Behr figured the joke was on him and for once he, the reporter with the thickest skin, lost it.

“Tell them I am not afraid of these Stens,” he said, wagging his finger, “we used the Thomson carbine in the Indian army and if you dropped it accidentally, it fired three rounds, what do you guys know about guns…”

It felt by now as if the temperature had dropped to minus 30 degrees. I grabbed Behr by the waist and dragged him out, and myself, to safety.

By May 1984, it was evident that something catastrophic was going to happen at the Temple. Intrigue hung heavy in the air as everybody, even Bhindranwale, felt insecure. I wrote a story headlined “Temple Intrigue” in the May 15 issue of India Today, describing a string of cases of torture, assassination of suspected rivals and renegades, chopped bodies being taken out of the Temple and dumped in gutters. A lone woman shot dead Surinder Singh Sodhi, Bhindranwale’s favourite hitman, while he sat sipping tea outside a tea shop near the Temple and screamed, waving her pistol, “Maine badla le liya hai (I have taken revenge).” Next morning, two assassins shot the tea-shop owner. Several mutilated bodies then appeared in gunny bags here and there and the local police had a rough time dealing with them, fishing them out of the gutters. One of these, evidently, was that of Baljit Kaur, the Dalit woman who had shot Sodhi because she believed he had killed her husband. Policemen who put together that body said they had not seen such brutal torture before. It was in this atmosphere of rising blood-letting, revenge killings and suspicion that Bhindranwale decided to up the ante, and Indira Gandhi decided to strike.

In Amritsar last month, I spent some time with Mohkam Singh, whose imposing figure is etched on my mind as one of Bhindranwale’s closest lieutenants, though he claims he never carried arms and my memory is not convincing enough to dispute this. He posed for pictures under a portrait of Bhindranwale, steel arrow and all, and argued passionately that his sant was not a separatist. He only demanded autonomy for states, which is the norm now. He was deliberately misunderstood, he said. That is why, because of their belief in decentralisation, the rag-tag group of Bhindranwale supporters that he leads has extended support to the Aam Aadmi Party. But then, as conversation went on, he relaxed. “Santji was no ordinary human,” he said, “remember how his arms hung below his knees, just like Guru Gobind Singh. He was no ordinary human.”

Mohkam (three years younger than me, actually) had transported me back to the Golden Temple in 1983-84, when people looked at Bhindranwale and “pointed out” the same “fact” to you, that his arms hung lower than his knees. But, god’s own truth, they didn’t. They didn’t, if you believed your eyes. But in Punjab of 1984, so many were not willing to believe what they could see, hear and comprehend. It was a phase of madness, so eminently worth forgetting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiQlfQw111o

Also there was a logistics issue in going from South (Indus) to North (into Afghanistan). Using a big army to invade afghanistan was impractical because Afghanistan was a barren wasteland that could at best support a band of brigands but there was nothing for the army to feed on once it reached it's destination in Afghanistan. Say an expedition was launched from Attock to Mazar-e-Sharif or Panjshir Valley or Badakshan, they could loot all the food and resources from the locals but even that wouldn't be enough to make their way back until they dotted the entire route with forts (which were well-stocked to supply rations) and this was a slow process.

And then that too to what end, there was nothing of consequence in Central Asia or Northern Afghanistan to attract such efforts from an Army. But it was not the case if they were coming southwards where the fertile plains of the Indus would give food, resources, wealth and all possible attractions to all manner of adventurers, brigands, dacoits from Central & Southern Afghanistan. It was enough to motivate a large army and any loot along the way was enough to sustain them till their destination.

a few facts:

1. Pathans are the majority on the southern side of Afghanistan bordering Pakistan. i.e. Kandahar, Jalalabad, upto Ghazni. The ones on the western side of Afghanistan (Herat) are the Tajiks and the northern part of Afghanistan i.e. Panjshir valley and Mazar-e-Sharif are Tajik and Uzbek dominated. So almost no Pathans are found here.

2. Pathans used to say khamosh bash Haria Raghle, which is pushto and not tajik or uzbek.

3. Pathans have a bit of Seljuk turk in them by way of the Ghilzai tribe but the Durrani, Yusufzai & Ahmedzai are basically of similar ethnic stock as the Rajputs.

4. Afghanistan was mainly known for it's southern cities in ancient times, Kabul was just a stop over from Central Asia Silk route. And Pashtuns dominated Southern Afghanistan & it was them who were basically referred to as Afghans in medieval times. The present day Afghanistan which encompasses Herat, Mazar-e-Sharif, Panjshir etc is a modern British construct and has little to do with the ancient idea of Afghanistan.

5. Kandahar (Qandahar) whose Prince/King was Shakuni and whose sister was 'Gandhari' (Qandahari) was the wife of the blind prince Dhritarashtra and mother of the Kauravas of Mahabharata fame. So southern Afghanistan since time immemorial has always been somehow associated with the Indic narrative. Northern parts were too bare, unfertile and unproductive to be of any consequence. Just some oasis like the Panjshir valley existed which supported then negligible populations.

Your question has been aswered to the best of my ability.

@JSinghnz. The Namdharis, Satnami, Udasis were always perceived to be pro-hindu and thus British sought to isolate that strain of thought in their interest. It makes more sense seeing the Namdhari babajee in front of the cannon. The British had a vested interest in seeing to it that there was no ideological strain amongst any group prevalent at that time which could turn into a larger rebellion.

Creation of strong minorities and pitting them against the majority has been an old British and anglo-saxon policy. Case in point is Sri Lanka where tamils were numerically strengthened by importing tamil labour from Indian mainland and giving them an english education. Those tamils who were ever greatful to the British always worked against the majority Sinhala community and in favor of British interests.

A recent case is what is Kosovo where the bosnian/albanian muslim community in Kosovo was encouraged and armed against a numerically larger Serb majority. Later on Serb areas were bombed out by NATO warplanes with the intention of establishing the peace.

Yes, the differences with Hindus used to be philosophical & ideological and against the practice of Brahmanism and Brahmanical rituals. But post Singh Sabha movement, these differences crystallized and turned Sikhs against Hindus as a people. The differences from hereon where not just idelogical, but against Hindu as a people. The second Singh Sabha at Lahore it seems was instituted to encourage orthodoxy amongst Sikhs and to differentiate them clearly from the Hindu population.

LIONS IN THE PUNJAB: An Introduction to the Sikh Religion

By Andrea Grace Diem, Ph.D.

Chapter Three

...

After Ranjit Singh's death in 1839 the Sikhs were still in a position of dominance. Fearful that the Sikhs were becoming too politically powerful, the British entered the Punjab in 1845, annexing it five years later. During this time two Anglo-Sikh wars transpired. With no central power after Ranjit Singh the British take over went fairly smooth. The improvements the British made (such as the building of roads, canals, hospitals, and schools as well as the rise of employment) actually won many Sikhs over to their administration. But not everyone in India appreciated theBritish. There was a great anti-British sentiment in this country in the 1850s, leading to sporadic acts of violence and culminating with the Mutiny of 1857. Instead of siding with their Indian brothers most Sikhs during this time supported the British and many even served in the British army.

Since they were viewed as a strong martial race Sikhs were recruited to the British army and allowed, even encouraged, to observe the Khalsa. In fact, the British insisted that Sikh soldiers wear the five ks and swear an oath of loyalty to the Guru Granth Sahib. The British vested interest was obvious: by supporting Sikhism they felt they were insuring excellent soldiery. Thus, the British helped crystallize Sikh identity as they promoted Khalsa standards in the military and the use of the title Singh. The advantage of being a Sikh helped keep Sikhs from lapsing into Hinduism and Khalsa Sikhism grew as a result.

Another major factor that led to the rise of Khalsa Sikhism was the establishment of the Singh Sabha in 1873. This society was organized to revive interest and preserve identity in the Sikh tradition. That Khalsa ideas expressed in the state administration of Ranjit Singh were beginning to wane made some fear that Sikhism was being absorbed into Hinduism and the phrase "Hum Hindu nahin" ("We are not Hindu) became popular at this time. This fear was legitimate since India is eighty percent Hindu and Hinduism has in the past absorbed rival faiths, such as Buddhism. (In Hinduism, the Buddha is viewed as an incarnation of Vishnu.) Sikhs also sought separation from Hindus because they were in competition for jobs and economic resources. In addition, many were nervous about the influence of Christian missionaries and schools on Sikhs, especially since four students at Amritsar converted to Christianity at this time.

By 1899 there were over 120 Singh Sabha organizations operative. The need to have a central organization to allow communication between educated Sikhs and to coordinate activities between the Singh Sabhas was apparent. In 1902 the Chief Khalsa Diwan was established to serve this role.

Overall, the Singh Sabha (later becoming the Tat Khalsa or true Khalsa and then the Chief Khalsa Diwan) institutionalized the view of Sikhism as a separate religion with distinct rituals and communal solidarity. It requested Sikhs to follow the ways of the Khalsa by wearing the five ks. Through journals, newspapers and conferences, it also clarified Sikh ideology and delineated the Singh Sabha view of Sikh history. In other words, this movement established Sikh orthodoxy. When British writers drew their information of Sikhism from the Singh Sabha they actually played a significant role in supporting the movement. Orthodoxy was presented as historical fact, reifying a particular perspective. For instance, Sikhism was thought of as a non-evolving religious tradition and the Khalsa approach was seen as the authentic form of Sikhism. As shown in Chapter Two, however, Sikhism indeed did go through many diverse stages, mainly in reaction to the socio-political environment. Moreover, to associate Sikhism solely with the Khalsa is to miss the rich tapestry that makes up the Sikh world. There are numerous Sikh groups besides the Khalsa that we will learn about in Chapter Four. Unfortunately, many of these historical inaccuracies are still perpetuated in textbooks.

no

Could you elaborate.

from what I read, a book by Professor HS Oberoi, "The construction of religious boundaries", which elaborates the creation and rise of the Singh Sabha movement and how a divide was thus created between Hindus and Sikhs in Punjab. According to the author it was part of british divide and rule strategy.

During British times many sikhs used to be very casual or careless about their attire and appeared dishevelled at recruiting camps but the British officers who used to recruit for the army used to scold potential recruits saying, "where is your turban" etc.

Wasn't the Singh Sabha movement started by the British to split the Sikhs ideologically from the Indian mainland.

His business .. lol .. his facebook page shows behind his desk a big Airtel DTH ad/poster. So without doubt he is a Airtel DTH franchisee or dealer for the area.

Will come to your points later. But regarding the public relations void, just look at the LTTE and their activists in the west and how they have created so much pressure upon Sri Lanka just through media and social activism. It is just their military wing that has been eliminated, but their media cell and their pressure groups in the west are still as strong as ever.

Sikhs need to create a proper support structure within India and outside before they go ballistic at Govt of India, who gets away even with a totally ridiculous police policies in the state and baiting Sikhs with some loony unhinged shiv sena types. A lot of preparatory field-work has to be done before launching a full-fledged movement.

If you look at the Sikhs during Ranjit Singh era, they were also superior strategists than their contemprories during that era and thus their success. There has to be a certain evolution of strategy in order to succeed, and the strategy that we adopt changes with the era and time we live in though the basic objectives remain.

Seeing the repeatition of the old tactics used by the Govt of Punjab to control Sikh unrest underlines a certain contempt with which they are treating the entire issue of Sikh disenfranchisement, which shows like nothing else that Sikhs haven't evolved in their strategy, they have stopped growing, and those opportunists who stand by the wayside can now even smell it. It's said that it has come to this, because after Ranjit Singh, Jassa Singh Ahluwalia, and Nalwa followed by the British, there isn't a visionary who can lead the Sikhs into a position where they have the upper hand in any bargain. Sikhs do not need those with a suicide mentality, they need someone who can help the community into a position of strength given the circumstances.

More important question is where are the Sikh PROs (Public Relations Officers). Where are the savvy Sikhs who can interact with the media and create a positive impression.

Why are not Sikhs and Sikh groups seen to be coordinating with other minority communities in India. Where are the Sikh representatives visiting other minority groups and churches and mosques highlighting their plight and the true situation in Punjab. Why are Sikhs unable to cultivate foreign media into highlighting their plight.

Where is the Sikh media cell which can coordinate media strategy ?

Why are not more Sikhs being trained to take up jobs in media especially in the west and not only take up jobs for jobs sake but also with a view to endorse the Sikh narrative without looking openly biased. Youth have to be trained en masse for this and there has to be a certain strategy so as to not make these young guys look slanted/biased.

What this means is that in absence of a comprehensive plan all that there is in name of a political support structure is Badal & Akali Dal. The very guys everyone hates. What a ridiculous situation is this ?

Kalyugi -- I trade international markets - so i kind of know how strong india really is at present -- your statement is a common belief given out to us in the media. The reality is different - india and all asian econmies willbe crashing soon my friend without a doubt. They are trying to create their own world bank - they haven't a hope in hell. They will come crawling to the west in the future. Alpha male is America and always wil be - these piss poor asian countries have a mindset of a child as Once Sant maskeen jee said - they will stay where they are in that process. What we need to do is become financily so strong so we can buy PUNJAB. - but that is light years away. and to give u a taster - marriot hotel opened up in chandigarh two years ago - and now it is closing - no more customers - will be monument for us to see when we visit. also check http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9173668/Why-a-Brics-built-bank-to-rival-the-IMF-is-doomed-to-fail.html

Sorry to say this .. but you are as racist as those shiv sainiks.

It is this very view that exists amongst certain section of Sikh community that is leading to their present turmoil. For example, this very attitude that a certain section spouts that the real players are the gorey, and rest are bystanders is the byproduct of the century odd of gora racism that the colonials had to endure.

In the fight to find justice for the sikhs, sincerely hope that you do not resort to such false crutches and straws of hope, such as gora ummrikka is the real alpha dogs and rest are zerrows.

dear P, this is a good time to bring this up .. I can recall you were badgered on this very topic a few weeks ago.

Yes there is a pattern .. Yes the shiv sainik/hindus are using Indian policemen as cover to bait the Sikhs and hardly any of them is injured and they are operating from behind police cover. This shows one thing clearly that the Police have been instructed to give cover only to hindus and perhaps their promotion or continuance depends upon this. The utter spinelessness of the Sikhs who work in the police force is also illustrated, looks like they are a completely brainwashed/demoralized lot .. the shiv sainiks or whatever nameless hindu thugs they have clearly been instructed to bait the Sikhs and when the SIkh mob takes up the bait the Sikh police goes after them with batons, or the hindu havildar fires with AK-47.

I think all the red/blue dastar cops aren't really sikhs, it's just part of their uniform and some have just sprouted a stubble to blend in with the uniforms.

but to their credit it is the dastar wearing Sikh policemen who are trying to coax/use kidgloves in pushing back the protestors/mob. The hindus are the ones who don't have any dastars and just wear a cap are using their govt issue AK-47s and other weapons with gay abandon. To top it all the Badal's, who call themselves Sikh, have a rabid hindu as DGP of Punjab Police.

What is clear from above picture is that the situation their is totally screwed and totally against the Sikhs. The only people who have to lose from waging a conventional battle with the cops are the Sikhs. What is shows to any lay bystander is that the Sikhs are not a united force like the muslims who despite their various shortcomings stand united when it comes to religion. What's clear is that there needs to be change in strategy, the current methods have almost exhausted their yield and are clearly not working any more.

Again I wonder how come a Christian named Sonia Maino who rules the country by proxy, can give so much leeway to the Hindus and their puppet police force to wreck so much havoc in Punjab .. oh but then I forget .. that italian is too busy counting notes.

Jila Pramukh:

Pramukh means Chief

watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MuydPdVQ_Q

tell me why are some cops in khaki turbans and some have red and black turban/toupee with a 2-day stubble ?

It seemed to me that these guys are still working for the British.

the fact that they are dealing with Indians hasn't sinked in.

Low creatures.

i have asked a couple of times before and here we go again....does it exist? i have a sinking feeling in or around my heart (and i have constant thoughts about a particular thing), is that it? and no i don't have any health issues.lol

It exists, but in a conducive environment.