GtLoc

Sherdil,

Ok, I've gone back to re-read your post Sherdil. I admit, I initially did read it as your grandparents. Like you have already clarified, your grandparents were merely saying that "other jat folks did it", not themselves, so I apologise for saying it was another poster on here (although I didn't mention your name). However, I should have read it carefully, and fair is fair, I read it incorrectly. Sorry.

However, it doesn't actually detract from the very fact that it happens/happened, as you yourself acknowledged, which is the underlying point being made. Furthermore, I stand by everything else I said in the above post.

You say blame brahmins? Every brahmin I speak to is amused that a group of people who mock hinduism for establishing the caste system now practise it themselves and infact, those same brahmins struggle to recall a bollywood song bigging up brahimins yet songs 'bigging up jats' roll off their tongues as if it was saliva ten to the dozen. Can you see why even brahmins are now frustrated that they are still getting the blame? And even more bizarrely, whilst even they acknowledge that they are pioneers of the dreaded caste-system, even they (brahmins) are mystified why their ideology is mostly strongly propogated by those aren't even hindu!

Caste-based gurdwarae are wrong. But why did they spring up? Theres no point saying they are wrong, I mean so is cancer, but it still happens...why? What is the underlying reason? Maybe the youtube video showing the disgraceful treatment the mazhbis's receive will give some insight into why they would prefer to be treated with diginity and respect. If they, and others, feel the only way to achieve this is to set up a seperate gurdwara, then what am I to say to him? "No, you can't establish your own (insert any non-jatt caste name here) gurdwara, but you must continue to be treated as a second-class Sikh in a "one-for-all" gurdwara?".

Two wrongs don't make a right. I don't agree with caste-based gurdwarae, nor do I attend one, but I know why they exist.

It's nice for you to say "fix yourselves first". Very nice indeed. But when the majority community are refusing to give up the caste-based prejudices, what chance has the guy from a 'smaller community'? Let me give you a clear example: when a guy asked what my surname was, I say "Singh", if he's jat he'll say "no, whats ur real surname? If you dont write it after ur name or u don't want to tell me, then it means you're not a jat and you're from a low-caste (his words) and therefore you're hiding something by not telling me what caste you're from!" Make no mistake, thats the mentality we are dealing with.

Thats how uk is? I didnt think of the last name stuff, :S Here I think pplz dont care proly cuz its all jatts I see a few ramgarh gurudawaras. (Toronto) I havnt heqrd a caste thung in years Id hope ppl r past it but I think the older adults hide it. Last time my mom said like a chamar or sum I jus yelled at her. They usd to be like o that person good for a black person but they also aijt interact with em oike that. Dun care bout who they kids with, and w.especially

You are either wearing blinkers or are plain making things up. Never...in my entire life, have I ever ever come across a 'jatt' Gurdwara. The trouble is, because the jatts are the majority, the other groups naturally feel overwhelmed. They find that overwhelming feeling difficult to deal with so develop a misguided feeling of being sidelined. The jatts only crime then, is that he is large in numbers. That's not his fault. Judging by what you and others here have written you obviously have something like 500 examples of 'Jatt Gurdwaras'. What I'd like you to do then is this : Narrow your long list of 500 down to 3. Just give us the names of 3 'Jatt' Gurdwaras. Tell us their names and address' and we will sort it out.

Go on son......................just 3. That's all I'm asking you for .........

And "beating the crap out of a poor churha" ???? :stupidme: See this is when I know how little you actually know about Punjab these days. With the mass emigration of jatt Sikhs from rural Punjab the situation there has, for at least the last 2 decades, been exactly the opposite of what you said. Ask anyone from rural Punjab these days and they'll tell you that the one golden rule for all is that you should never ever....NEVER.....pick a fight with a chura. Nobody ever does because within the hour the entire bridarari of local churhe will gather for a mass brawl. It is churhe that regularly "beat the crap" out of others, rightly or wrongly, in rural Punjab these days.

So....anyway......go on then. You make out that jatt gurdwaras are as common as bees on a summers day.........so just give us a simple list of 3 ?

A group that has privelge has the privelge lol of being the defauot. When police say blah blah descrip. No race menrion mean white boi. Every noncaste gurudawara is a jatt one except for the sikh gurudawaras. Its jus kaami ppl tryna get weaoth to buy wives so they aint gives n up their post and caste based circle. An avg jatt wont get in either but has more opp. And easier chance.

There is no Gurdwara called "Jatt so and so gurdwara", but there are plenty of Gurdwaras called Ramgarhia, Labana, whatever.

You make it sound like Non-jatts aren't allowed in certain gurdwaras. I'm not talking about the pindh in Punjab. I'm talking about Western countries. If a non-Jatt walks into a "Jatt Gurdwara" do you think alarms are gonna go off? Are they gonna grab you and throw you out? No they won't! Do you have your caste written on your forehead?? Even if you did, it wouldn't matter.

It has to do with committees that run the gurdwaras. Unfortunately they are caste based, but to go and make your own gurdwara based on your own caste isn't solving the problem! I don't know why you can't understand this.

If Jatts discriminate against you, then why do you have to discriminate against each other? Bania vs Kamboj vs Tarkhan vs Labana vs whatever. Are Jatts forbidding you guys from mixing with each other? Give me a break!!

The older comm. May still have stuff bout marriages in gurudawaras but it is bout comm. Which is good cuz most ppl hate comitte as much as gov. So thatll chance. I called gurudawqra comitte and it wqs an entirely foreign sounding thing n It wqs separate feom feel of gurudawara. Makes sense, I found out here its brit shitstem.

I find it amusing how whenever I avoid telling anyone my surname (just to pee them off as I don't like the kind of attitude and mentality of people you've highlighted above) some of these guys come out with "You're going out with one (i.e. a non-Jatt female), aren't you?". :lol2:

How they make that connection is beyond me. The reason I'm deliberately avoiding the question is because I want to see you squirm, lol! I think they reflect what they get up to themselves onto others because it's beyond them that some Sikhs aren't preoccupied with caste.

I jus assume any1 using singh is being a realer sikh. I aint think about thtq angle, Idk if guys would step to me bout I chill with because thrir 'girl' will hage her eyes glued. Ppl r insecure, exploit that cuz justice for all. They wanna be weak, put em in their place and force them to bend n mend thats how u change world. U wont get horny betq men to change unless u show more power phys and spir cuz they caught up in the pursuit of women which is the opposite of nature. On touchscreen so I can elaborqte later if needbe.

These discussion are so amusing. Here is one government robbing all people regardless of their caste and now you got the internet warriors at each others necks. What don't you get.............this is not some pin the tail on the donkey game. Each caste is the donkey. Whoever the government can use they do. As soon as they are done with their services then their put you out on the streets. Badal used the jatts to there max capcity. Now he has no use for them, so they are left in the gutter. The rest can have a good laugh and enjoy their chicken and beer sitting at their oppressed retail stores and oppressed government jobs............a drunk police office ask for money..........han ji han ji sardar ji here is my roti for the evening. It's a continious cycle, which will only end once common sense hits all caste in punjab across the head. The mantra is.............work toegether to get all of the people in punjab to be stable.

But Badal out smarts all these caste and makes sure they stay divided. In the 80s Badal got caste to split up when Punjab had a leader, who would have gave freedom to Punjab. But now these caste have no leader whatsoever and now they want to run their mouth. What are you happy about? The jatts......the bread and butter of Punjab has hit the ground? Maybe it's time to revisit the dictionary and look up what victory means.

This is a true post, I think many posters here have more exp with the racial system rather than casting. And bring the two togeher but there are marked dif. And theres dkf. Ways of dealing with them. More l8r edited in.

Too much work google static contraction training. I don't really lift but I lost about a 100lbs since last year just by making sure i Get enuff protein everyday and I kinda done this since march ish but not like properly stopped here and there. I'm getting big, seeing my abs, etc. etc.

Also read why we get fat by gary taubes

basically understand grains are bad and high - gi sugars are the main thing. Avoid those, get ur vitamins eat a Idk gyro dinner kinda thing from El Greeko bunch of meat, and greens and go buy some level iv ceramic plates and we can be the new sikh infantry as well armored as the old.

I'll post a thread.

This is a revision of history in order for the Muslims not to be seen as aggressors and invaders these kind of fantasy stories are invented. Why did Qasim invade Sindh which is a 1000 miles away from Malabar? Do you seriously think that low caste former Hindus would have the resources to undertake a Hajj?

True, the Niddar guy's a giddar fraud.

Idc, let some arab cave monkey come we'll chop him. Didn't say low caste just said new muslims, I just put my own thoughts onto it. Sindh is next to gujurat Idk it said arab traders brought it they convert, and blah blah blah. Was some pak site so proly revisionist too.

This guy's still funny to watch though, he puts on all this chain mail and does weird <banned word filter activated> with this eyes like a .223 won't split it. :lol2:

It's an fn sword, let it do it's job. I went on here to get away from the ritualistic ish ppl do but here ppl have even more of their own and they're EDUCATED about it.

So if they had nanotube swords (carbon ones?) that were better than anything you wouldn't use them, and be cut down cuz it ain't 'sarbloh'.

Did we have labs to certify waht was and what wasn't.

Peace

edit - Also a kirpan is not a fasion accessory, why a dif. one for bhog and for fighting.

The kirpan that's right for bhog is the one which lets you defend the sangant, and the gurughur so that a bhog may take place ie. the best the world has to offer.

We are warriors not fn turban tying sadhus.

Those that want to move to Sarbloh Bibek, you are on the right track. First thing to do is completely cut out eating out. No restuarants, unless Amritdharis are the only cooks. If thats difficult at first, then only go to restuarants where vegatarian food is offered. Then slowly move away from them as well. Packaged goods.....be very careful which factory these are made in. If it says made in a factory where eggs were used, then don't buy it. If you don't do your Banis and then move toward Sarbloh Bibek, you will notice that your health is getting better, but spiritually you will have very little progress. If we eat healthy then we can progress in our jeevans faster because the mind is more clear and won't be as lazy. If you feed your body junk, then that is what you will become......same goes for mind, feed it junk and it becomes junk.

Those that work out vigouriously don't also need to eat heavy food. You need food that is healthy....filled with the nutrients the body needs without the junk. It is a myth when you are woking out that you need heavy foods. All you need to do is increase the amount of meals you have a day, so the body is getting enough food to keep functioning.

A place to start for some......cut out energy drinks......thats a huge drain on your jeevan and horrible for the body.

Another vegan sikh eh? Where'd you find that answer, not from the guru huh??

Khanne Bakre, protein peeke tubakk chukde!

Which cultures are you referring to here when speaking about both? So a woman that is properly clothed (not hidden) is not empowered? It's funny you use the word hidden here, but I guess it goes along with your overly subjective term ornament when it comes to modesty. With no doubt hypersexualization parades women around like an ornament. But modesty does not work in the same way. When speaking about modesty women cloth themselves properly because they respect their body. If a male finds a properly clothed woman attractive, then the culture that endorses modesty has not clothed the women to stop male gazes. I'm put it in another way, not all males find the same thing attractive, hence making it impossible for a culture to endorse modesty on the basis of male gazes.

Cultures do tell women to cover themselves to prevent males looking, but this does not mean the culture is endorsing modesty whatsoever. Clear example of this is the Muslims by covering the women up completely. Modesty is decency of dress, what decency is left when the woman is completely covered? So such cultures don't speak of modesty, but covering up so the women is unseen.

I shouldn't say punjabi culture, but many punjabis be them Muslim, Hindus, or Sikhs teach their daugthers not to cover up, but be properly clothed, which shows modesty. Covering up doesn't represent modesty and neither does letting it all hang out. Modesty is something different.

Modesty isn't the right word is it? More like just herself..

Why don't dudes get over what someone else is wearing?

Rajputs lost even with this knowledge because those weren't true rajputs, if caste is based on work and qualification and not birth some man who is a better doctor/that's where his heart is gets put out to fights muslims what happens?

I also read that qasm invaded because the muslims who converted along the malabar coast weren't allowed to do haaj by the hindu rulers so the king of syria? sent his son to teach a lesson.

Seeing the caste dynamics, proly lower caste converts and the higher caste are like no, you are our livestock u don't do any of that.

So w.e it's the same reason why when I break down a lot of the 'muslim rule of punjab' half of it is from afghanistan, and a lot of them are 20 year things which basically means nothing cuz that means they wrote they ruled for 20 years from their castle (harem ) until they got a knife in the neck.

This stuff seems legit though, just that you can't half-a** it.

ਕਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ ਜਦ ਗਿਦੜ ਦੀ ਮੌਤ ਆਉਂਦੀ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਉਹ ਸ਼ਹਿਰ ਵੱਲ ਭਜਦਾ ਹੈ | ਇਸ ਲੀਡਰ ਨੂੰ ਪਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਇਹ ਕਿ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਖੂਨ ਖਰਾਬੇ ਦੀ ਤਰਫ਼ ਲਿਜਾ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ | ਅੱਜ ਵੇਖ ਲਵੋ ਪਾਕਿਸਤਾਨ ਨੇ ਜੁਦਾ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਕੀ ਚੰਦ ਚੜਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ | ਉਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਖਿਆਲ ਸੀ ਕਿ ਅੱਲਾ ਦੀ ਪਾਕ ਕੋਮ ਪਾਕ ਮੁਲਕ ਵਿੱਚ ਵਸੇਗੀ | ਅੱਜ ਸਾਰਾ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਵੇਖ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ , ਪਾਕਿਸਤਾਨ ਦੀ ਕੀ ਹਾਲਤ ਹੈ |

This is definitely a hate speech charged with religious connotation. He is right in many points, but his style is very dangerous. Anyone goes to the extremes of things is not likely to succeed . We live in the west, and learning wisdom from these countries. Let the Sikhs not go this way . This is my saintly appeal to the sensible Sikhs.

I would say Whaeguru is watching from above , everything happening on this earth. He will sort out the wrong doings in his own due time. Wheguru has unfolded this drama ( tamasha ) of life on this earth for a great purpose to see and test the inhabitants of this earth.

'He will sort ou the wrong doings in his own time'. Stop talking, cowards walk that way.

I really don't want to listen to a 1hr speech, all he's saying is yea they live immune, there's no justice, how dare you talk secularism yet opress us. Then he's proly asking people to rise up. Ok, if someone is raping and burning your house, I kindly ask you to be a sant and take it. 6th master changed that, and 10th made sure we understand we don't take <banned word filter activated>.

So stop. R u afraid of death?

'Why don't we hear Sikh politicians speak like this?'

Because we're considered a core of indian society and are watched closely while muslims are left at the sides esp. beause many muslsim are lower caste I was watching that other video, even though this guy's genuine I wonder what his caste is, and what he gains from this otherwise. I'm getting cynical.

And since when did you guys know what Sikhi teachings are. Of course you CANNOT do your nitnem by just listening to it on a computer. The maryada is sitting on the floor cross legged with a parna/hazuria around you neck and read the 5 banis with love and concentration from a Gutka Sahib. Even from memory isn't emphazised unless you are doing as lot of Gurbani abyaas. Keep your eyes focused on the Guru Shabad. Let your ears hear your recital. If i don';t see the Gurbani akhar i feel unwell and seperated. The Guru's darshan is essential.

Too many new ages hoody khalsa's with their mp3 players glued to their ears. This isnt nitnem, this isn't abyaas that will bear fruit. Its only sharia law - o'h ive done my 5 bania know i can act like a bad man for the rest of the day.

Was it 6th lord who said that the nectar of bani sticks to anyone. W.e works for you, you should have the sense to know the dif. better you listen than you don't. I'm not even gonna get into who the SGPC is who makes the maryada that they don't even follow, tbh, remember the whole family thing means live practically, don't quit ur job and let your kids starve to do 20 hrs of bani everyday. U know what to do..

And you say based on your beliefs that a person's sexuality is the main reason for marriage. Ever seen a man being dragged around by his wife because his sexual inclination has taken over his brain? The world is a lab. If everyone in this world is to be treated as your brother or sister can you have a sexual inclination for them? Why would Guru Sahib tell everyone to refer to others as their brothers and sisters, when by your understanding sexual inclination is a or main reason for marriage?

Many people put Sikhi in a box because of their shortcomings. I can't escape this, so Sikhi says its okay to commit such and such. I can't comprhend this, so Sikhi says it can be done or can't.....whatever i concluded with my limited ability. I wonder how big Akal Purakh is for those who put Sikhi in a box.

Can't wait till the dominate women stand up for their equal rights and have two sexually inclined husbands marching behind them with there little bells and leashes on. They are going to look so cute!!!!!!

A man being run by a woman is wack. I think the 5 thieves thing has been christainized, like how someone described it as not hiding from it but like ok it's there. Ok? So? There's ego, lust, etc. and? Still do ur thing, u just 'know' it's all instinct. We need to hold our own bluestar and raid the f out of our own takht and get these lax hindus out of there now.

because guys will perv on them

Girls perv too, wut u got a sword for?

about 9ish years back i know of jatha of bibiyan (who i wont name as im pretty sure they wont approve) got together and protested at Sri Akal Takht Sahib. They were beaten with danday by the SGPC force or whatever they call themselves. I know one bibi personally who left with broken ribs.

Condemened? Um, a random man beats my sister with a danda

Ok, so you find female sexuality uncomfortable. keep your dirty thoughts to yourself. It means you don't have control over you, and you are just learning what female sexuality is like so you be like ok, hmm that's what she's thinking? And being full of kaam you think about how you respond to that, as in what you want to do to her.

Kaam, is not natural attraction or 'lust' if you go to hug your 'wife' and you're in the moment that's not Kaam. Kaam is doing certain things and being a little wuss thinking I'ma manipulate her with this and this and try to 'get her into bed'. It's ish like buying chocolate and flowers, not genuinely but because you want to do abc to get s-e-x.

Glad that realization came now, make sense cuz we natural that ish is not. Kaam is the pursuit of sex, if you joined at the soul others drop their panties you walk the other way. U can't be uncomforatable with the ish though, people got hangups and they put it on others/themselves/ or the quom.

It's a journey though, a personal one, like for me an old gangbanger; stopping someone, from going on that, well that's what we go to war over. I don't think it'd be the best use of my resources to go and start beating up the dirty old men who are in the SGPC, if it becomes that at some point..

and don't get the impression from sri charitropakiyan that kaam filled realtions always result in bad children, people born as themselves you know. Reading stuff is dif. from experience it too though.

And, you structure yourself to follow the hukam cuz there's some sense in it, don't be a blind bat. Cuz better 10 true than 100 fake. I think many are amritdhari as a facade better they weren't, better they didn't claim sikhi (any of them) by doing paath, but then not eating meat on certain days.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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Also f tradition, we are the khalsa we don't like a tradition we change it; panj pyarre make a declartion. Ok, done.

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not being real, not being yourself but attempting to use money, force, status, and wealth to get genetic opportunity. Which is why RT, marriage as seen in Punjabi culture is not anand karaj as it is kaam.

If Indira was planning to attack Sri Darbar Sahib regardless whether Bhindrawalla was there or not, what would have been her excuse to attack if Bhindrawalla had not occupied Sri Akal Takhat Sahib?

Operation Shanti, attack pakistan claim we joined them bomb Punjab.

If it was preplanned to attack darbar sahib, y wasnt the golden temple blown to pieces with the tanks they brought it? Why was it only aimed at bhindrawaleh?

Surely if sum1 was planning to attack the golden temlple they would target the main thing wich was darbar sahib

Cuz they had over 6 or 7 dozen kia from there first wave alone, they used a side alley and were beaten back ('elite' commandos) because they got shot back at; something they're not used to.

edit - Towards the OP understand that is THE capital, do you leave your capital undefended? We don't follow no 'Indian Consitution' in fact, all the 'gov.' of the commonwealth are illelegtimate and only the common law of endland applies aka no injury to life, damage to property, fraud in contract.

I been to court in Canada had my charges dropped for stupid <banned word filter activated> with that knowledge.

I ask you, why shouldn't he have? We do w.e the f we want. I'm gonna get this knowledge out let me put together a thread.

I found a way to simplify it, but I'll post my source material as well.

Wb this though? My mom tells me in my nanake they used to beat up this one chamar who kept trying to go to the 'jat' gurudawara. Let em burn if they like that,

edit - http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/70044-sikh-and-caste-system-satyamev-jayate/

<banned word filter activated> yo, that girl who said it felt good to draw water looks like my cousin. This <banned word filter activated> will end, you see it in the eyes of the youth. Go cut up those jats tho.

edit - Also, the caste system ain't been a monolith, same with the racial. There's been dalit run kingdoms, (which the bramins got attacked over and over till they fell) so don't tell people u're opressed, have been, and nobody did anything, until now.. (then they try to sell you into the group).

They do the same thing with us too, like say o Britian 'took u over' dont show the letters of the brit officers crying to their mothers.

I won't call myself a singh, since I havn't taken amrit I won't call myself a 'jat' either.

I wonder how long till this spills?

The caste system wasn't always by birth, it is with Manu laws (just learned that) and around the birth of Jesus (debated?) that they made it like that.

edit - Also, I was always suprised by the seeming arrogance little gujurati phuddus around here seemed to exhibit even the ones that were 'poor' cuz all of India been poor for a while. Esp. the older people like grandparents, etc. Idk if jat is a shudra caste and they don't care no more, but I didn't get the normal stay away ish (I was building computers) who knows.. I'll test this.

Tru say, lemme bring someone 'lower' cuz I know they don't have a problem with SIkhs esp, Jat Sikhs, either cuz Jat ain't a low caste, or bcuz they don't know but are too scared to bring it to a sikh like that.

Guns.

Honestly, grains are horrible for your health. I just went to eat langar and I was sick for two days because of how oily and thick the white flour roti were. I understand that we are at war, and that 10th master didnt visist darbar sahib. So w.e they make it unhealthy I wont destroy my body to appease a 'community' Ill lay my head for it.

This is soemthing we should address, in western places the obscene amounts of oil etc. going into what is supposed to be food good for body and soul miri piri.

The best langar I had was when I was 9 or 10 in madya pradesh about a day or two from Hazoor Sahib. Simple sabhi no achaar one roti.

India is a sexually repressed place, that will change with time; in the mean-while this famous saying:

Gun Control is hitting where you aim or

The morality behind gun control is john doe being tied to a fence post vs john doe explaining how his attackers got those holes in them.

Not too long of a post, crime is reduced where there is concealed carry. US people would know that, anyone going against weapons is a wussy and frankly not a sikh. That's really the only solution while other things work themselves out, or we work them out.

Otherwise, you're saying that because you don't 'like' or are 'scared' of weapons for your 'feeling of safety' 100,000's of people should be rape, killed, and etc.

It is India, so what I say doesn't matter; but shell their posts for awhile maybe they'll get the idea?

Ok, this has been really annoying me for a while now.

It has been going on for quite while and yet as far as i am aware no one has batted an eyelid. Not just non Amritdharis are guilty of this but so are countless of Amritdharis and Gursikhs.

So far this year I have received 6 wedding and Akhand Paath cards and in each and every one of them there is a tuk from bani! Two of these cards I have received from Amritdhari families. I think putting bani in these cards is extremely disrespectful! The cards if posted get thrown all over the place and are held by someone who may have just had a bacon sandwich or cigarette a few mins ago. If they are hand delivered then most are left all over the place. And once the wedding/ Akhand Paath passes how many get thrown straight into the bin?

We wouldn't treat an ang from Guru Granth Sahib Ji or from the gutka in this manner so why is it acceptable for a card that contains a line of bani. In fact what is the need to contain bani in the card in the first place? Stick what ever else you want on there but LEAVE THE BANI OUT!!!!

Cigareete I understand, bacon sandwich I don't. Not going to find the raags/mehils but vege =/ warriors.

They off now, only the khanda at top is lit red;

nuff said.