LegalSingh

@ Legal Singh - Wow. A young girl messed out of her mind is a ho, but the Muslims guys that groomed and raped her are... nevermind. Wow.

Er..yeah. A girl selling her body for sex (and if you follow the trial you'll notice that she herselfs admits she was seeling herself for sex since well before meeting the muslim men) is the very definition of a ho. I mean its not the dictionary definition of a nun, vanhelsing. If you have a problem with the dictionary definition perhaps you ought to take the matter up with websters ? She herself admits to selling sex since before meeting the men in question.....abusing drugs since before meeting the men in question and abusing alcohol since before meeting the men in question.

And I don't know why your putting a question mark at the end of what my thoughts are about the men in question. I've stated quite categoricaly that they are vile and evil.

Bro, What you say is true for girls in their 20s. But the girl in this story is only 16 not in her 20s.

No. The opposite. Girls in the 20's are not 'girls'. They are women. They are mothers. They are adults. They are parents of children who are vulnerable.

Every 16 year old girl on earth is vulnerable. Like I said, this girl doesn't have a monopoly over vulberability. She is, however, the only 16 year old girl that asked for strange mens telephone numbers, asked for booze, asked for drugs, asked for sex, then asked for more sex from more men for more money.

Basically all you lot here are doing is giving the green light for every young sikh girl out there to do the same. You're giving them a get out of jail free card. The message to them is: Get out there, get wasted, sleep around. At the end of the day, all you gotta do is blame it all on the muslims and we'll take your side.

Well guess what mate ? This geezer ain't taking no ho's side.

Was he not helped by indira to get a break in the film industry and were not his mother and indira friends, its seems he was repaying the favour by going all out when she was assassinated. He's nanna and his two mammas were british / hindu spoons, who were only concerned about their own interests, i mean their only sister/daughter and his mother married a bheyah, shows how much sikh values were instilled into her/them.

There are no Sikh values because there is no Sikh in him. Every single hindu bedi (and most bedis are hindu Punjabi) claim to be the direct descendant of Guru Nanak. Every single one you will ever meet in your whole life makes the same claim. Its not just that indra and his old girl were 'friends'. There is far far more to the story than that. Indra and him are practicaly siblings. His dad was one of india's most well known homosexuals....the sort of Quentin Crisp of Oscar Wilde of India if you like. A poet....and very very openly camp and gay. His dad had no relations with his mum. The only man his mum had relations with was Indra Gandhi's old man: pandit Nehru. Amitabh Bachan and Indra Gandhi were blood. Trust me....the man wanted revenge....wanted blood when she died. He is 100% guilty of calling for and getting the massacre of Sikhs in 1984. The man has the blood of thousands of innocent sikh men, women and children on his hands.

Whilst the actions of these vile men are rightly condemned, I do worry that the message we are giving to some of our girls is this : "smoke, drink, take drugs, sleep around. Do it all in the safe knowledge that when push comes to shove you can blame it all on the muslim men and we'll come out and take your side"

Look, the fact is that every single girl in the world of that age is 'vulnerable'. That Leicester girl doesn't have a monopoly over vulnerablity. The other girls, however, don't give their numbers out to strange men, ask for alcohol, ask for drugs, ask for sex, ask for money for sex, ask to be introduced to more men for more sex.

Its all too easy to blame the muslim man for everything. Its time we took a good long look at the stupidity that lies within too.

I think we can also take into consideration that unlike the rest of India, in Punjab the NRIs are mostly from the rural areas of Punjab, especially the lakhs of students of who recently migrated to the west in the last 15 years. These recent migrants send a lot of money back home to their family in the pinds.

The current exchange rate is nearly 91 rupees for a pound. That means you just need to send 31 pennies back home to raise them above poverty level.

Is India a real country with a real brain ? Are they seriously saying anyone with 0.31p in their pocket is not poor ?

^ As far as African students go.....Thats got to be the most un-African looking African I've ever seen. :stupidme:

Seriously now, dal Khalsa should not be confusing kale kachewale with Africans. One's a race of people and the others a colour of underpants.

What seems to be happening now is a repeat of what rural Punjab witnessed under KPS Gill.

You see, India is a very strange country. You have castes and tribes who have long standing occupations. Sons do as fathers did. Some tribes are blacksmiths.....some are painters....others are cooks. You also have criminal tribes. The art of killing is their family occupations. The British called the tribe that go around strangling people thugees. Thats where we get the English word thug from. Another tribe are what are known as the kale kachewale from somewhere in central India. They are expert controtionists and are able to stop their hearts and breaths for long periods much like the mime artists and statue people you see in public squares. They are dark and they only wear dark pants....hence kale kachewale. You don't see them coming...you don't hear them coming. You don't even know they';ve been because by then you're dead. They come in the dead of night and they cover their entire bodies with grease, both to slip through tight gaps and prevent anyone getting a grip. After 1984 the Punjab police used them extensively in rural Punjab, and would pin the blame on robberies by dakus. The M.O is that policemen bring the kale kachewale to the outskirts of a village in their police jeep....tell the kale kachewale who to rob and kill....and then to come back to the rendevouz point to be taken away again. It was obvious the police were involved because every now and then during the middle of the night someone would awaken and scream, awakening the whole village. Miracously, the police would appear within minutes....whereas normally they take 2 days to appear.

Seems to me we're seeing the re-appearance of the kale kachewale.

Which Indians?

Well....I'm not talking about apaches and comanches so obviously we're talking about the strange and foreign nation to the south of our Punjab. The nation that we Punjabis spent thousands of years being separate from until some British toff sitting in his London office decided he's draw a line on a map and lump us with them. Those are the 'Indians' I'm talking about. The Indians who for thousands of years have had a very different diet to us and so who's bodies are used to entirely different foodstuffs compared to us. Them Indians. Why ? Which Indians were you thinking of ?

And what is Nordic?

If you're not very well read the term 'nordic' might just mean scandanavia to you. But correctly, the term can be used to describe all the Germanic tribes of northern Europe. That includes countries like Britain, Germany, Holland etc etc. Thus, when noting how being lactose intolerant is so common in southern European countries such as Spain, where shops don't even sell fresh milk because it is so rare to drink it there, and how the complete opposite is true in northern European countries....the term 'nordic' is most apt.

The Law is clear. No place of worship can be compelled to conduct same sex marriages.

It makes no sense to court bad publicity over this issue now because of any hypotheticals that might or might not happen in the future in Strasbourg.

I think you'll find the aggressor in this alteraction was Edward Terry. Although I do no agree with the Sikh guy's personal habits of drinking and smoking he is no way a singh and probably doesnt wear a turban. However no one deserves to be racially and physically assaulted by anyone i'm suprised and appalled you of all people as "legalsingh" are advocating violence against your own Sikh brother and siding with a racist who attacked him.

I detest all smokers...Sikh or otherwise. At best, I think they should all be denied access to doctors and the NHS, and jobs etc. They're a drain on all our resources. At worst, I think they should be physically attacked. 'Sikhs' that smoke fall into the latter category.

The motive of Mr Terry may have been wrong.....but the end result is a good one. Amarjait's mum and dad should reflect on where and what their son was doing when he got attacked.

Gurfateh ji. Thinking of going Italy this year. One question that has been bugging me is, is the buffalo mozzarella over there suitable for vegetarians? As it seems that's what they use on pizza which would be a staple.

Thanks in advance

Actually a very good question. Lets start with an answer in that yes...it would be suitable for 'vegetarians'. But then again alot of things are suitable for vegetarians because strictly speaking 'vegetarians' eat fish etc.....they just don't eat the flesh of other animals (except fish). Your question though is geared towards Sikhs as Sikhs will not eat products made from dead animals. Traditionally, the mozzarella cheese that we get on our pizzas in the west would not be suitable for a Sikh because it has a dead animals stomach lining added to it. Nowadays, however, in most of Europe, a vegetarian rennet is added to make mozzarella. In America and Canada however, a Sikh needs to be extra vigilant because most of the cheese on most of their pizzas is still made using meat rennet.

Anyway....a close relative recently returned from a trip to Italy. He stated how the buffalo 'mozzarella' cheese the Sikhs make out there is not technically buffalo mozzarella at all, in that it isn't exclusively made from buffaloes. Its just that it contains 'some' buffalow milk. That 'some' can even be as little as one tablespoon worth. The rest is cows milk. But as long as there's 'some' it can be called buffallo mozzarella. Thats why the EU have regulations that state the only genuine mozzarella cheese.....i.e the only one that can say 'mozzarella di bufala di campana' on the label, is buffalo mozzarella that comes from the region around Naples. That is not the region where Italy's Sikhs are so you can take it as a given that the real good quality buffalo mozzarella is not made by our brethren out there.

In supermarkets, you can look out for the vegetarian symbol on the packet, in restaurants or when you're out and about

No. The vegetarian 'v' symbol does not mean it doesn't contain meat rennet. When it comes to cheese a Sikh cannot rely on that symbol. You have to go to the source yourself to find out. In the case of the big supermarkets you contact them and they refer back to the source to give you a definitive answer one way or the other. To save your time I've already done that.....the only major supermarket that gave me a definite answer a day or 2 later was sainsburys. Their head office went to the source and told me that their sainsburys brand mozzarella was made 100% from vegetarian rennet.

don't blame you people. I think it stems down to something else, because Sikhs in America and Canada have no problems with Pakistanis. I think perhaps Kashmiri people have some deep rooted hate perhaps from the time of the Sikh empire, but this is an assumption

Actually, they're not Kashmiri. They call themselves Kashmiri but they're not. You know the state in India which amalgamtes together 2 distinctly seperate states called 'Jammu and Kashmir' ? Well these Pakistanis in the UK masquarading as Kashmiris in order to feel good about their identity are 100% Jammu people. They are Jammu through and through and have been for thousands of years. Not even a tiny 0.1% of them is actually Kashmiri.Their language is exactly the same as the pahadi Punjabi the khatri Sikhs in Delhi speak but they now call it Kashmiri now they've completely re-invented themselves. Partition did that. It gave alot of lower people the chance to completely re-invent their identities. But rest assured, the rest of Pakistan still sees them as criminal junglee types. And they're not just in the UK. Norway, Sweden and Amsterdam are full of them and they have exactly the same problem we have here. America too has massive communities of them, especially New York. Its just that we Englandian Sikhs have a habit oif crying about things alot. Go to Coney Island in New York. The Pakistani community there is as big as Bradford with the same strictness and same sharia law etc.

And that brings me to a big difference between the north and south. I've noticed that Sikhs in the north, especially Birmingham, have alot of hatred towards Muslims. You don't tend to see that alot in London and the south.

I've spoken to a UK Gurdwara about this (although it was a couple of years ago). The registry part is conducted in the Gurdwara only via an agreement/contract with the local council. This stipulates where and when during the marriage day the registry vows and certificate signatures are done

Thats exactly my point. The Law is strict and clear on this issue. Licences can only be issued to places of worship (non Anglican, Jewish or Quaker) to conduct Civil Marriages if they can show that the room the civil marriage will take place in is clearly seperate and distinct from the actual religious premises. i.e. it MUST be a seperate room from the actual main hall.

There are no exceptions.

Trust me, if either the bride or groom from this marriage or any other bride or groom married under similar circumstances wishes to divorce and have their day in court they could easily have their 'marriage' declared a 'non-marriage' that never took place in the first place. Personally, I see it as a good opportunity for someone to sue those money-loving Indian agents that control the Southall gurdwara and hit them where it hurts.

I watched that 'Mission Afghanistan' documentary on you tube not long ago. In it, they filmed one of Kabul's largest and most famous Gurdwaras. The granthi there said during the civil war the northern alliance under massoud used the Gurdwara as an arsenal and garrison and banned Sikhs from entering. He said the Gurdwara was full of dead bodies as the northern alliance used it as a fort...and they refused to let the Sikhs remove the dead bodies. He said it was when the Taliban cam to power that things improved for the Sikhs. He said the Taliban came, removed the dead bodies, cleaned up the Gurdwara for the Sikhs and handed it back to the Sikhs. His own words.

Now....whilst the taliban is mostly made up of ethnic pashtoons, the northern alliance is mostly made up of ethnic Hazaras and Tajiks...i.e mongol looking afghans. It is those same people that make up the majority of Kabul today and it is those same people that are making life difficult for Sikhs again today. They have always been bitterly opposed to the pro 'Islamic' policies of the taliban. I don't then see how it can be said by my veers here that "Nothing but islam is to blame here", when clearly it is the group of people opposed to radical islam who are causing the Sikhs the most problems ?

Veerji Dairy industry in Punjab/India is anything but humane .....(yes the cows don't end up at slaugterhouses but they do suffer tremendously) ... they are given oxytocin shots (morning and evening) which is very detrimental to human as well as bovine health

All spent cows in west endup becoming hamburgers.

Veer questioner ji , IMHO occasionaly dairy is ok ....e.g dahi at gurdwara or chopri roti but it should not be part of our lifestyle.

Comparitively speaking the dairy industry in Punjab is extremely humane. On its own it is not humane but compared to the extreme cruelty of mass industrial daiiry production it is. For example. for that plastic bottle of milk to reach our Gurdwaras in the west the cow its dragged away from it's calf the moment it is born. Mother is seperated from baby and baby is seperated from mother. Both are pining for each other in pain. In this pain, straight away, it is strapped to machines to give us the milk that was meant for its baby...again and again and again and again. Its then given injections to give us more milk again and again and again and again. It is then fed animal products in order to produce even more milk...again and again and again and again. That milk that was produced in the body through the consumption of other animal feed is then bottled, sold in the shops, bought in the shops by Sikhs and given to the Gurdwara to be used in cha and keer etc. The cycle continues until that poor suffering cow can no longer continue. It is then that it's extreme suffering finally comes to an end when it is sent to the slaughterhouse to be turned into a burger.

It is usually at the end point...when either the bottle of milk reaches the Gurdwara or the meat reaches the Mosque...that we Sikhs start to pontificate to meat eaters about how cruel they are.

500 years ago Sri Guru Har Rai showed us Sikhs the way. We are supposed to follow in our Guru's example. He set up his famous bagh at Kiratpur. There, he gave sanctuary to all kinds of animals...showing us how sarbat da bhalla is caring and loving all living creatures and having their welfare interests to heart. God sees everything and I truly believe we are committing a great paap by allowing milk in our Gurdwaras in the west. I think 'questioner' summed it up best when he said this a few messages earlier :

I think Sikhs generally tend to ignore this issue. The extreme cruelty that animals have to face so that we can drink some milk now and again should not be ignored.

Leaving the Sikhi aspect out of it for the moment technically what happened makes the marriage null and void. In other words there would be no need for a divorce, decree nisi, anullment or anything. In the eyes of the law no marriage took place that day because the strict rule of a civil marriage (i.e not one conducted in a church) is that it cannot have any religious overtone whatsoever. For a civil marriage to be considered valid by the law it must by definition be 100% in a non-religious setting. The fact that it took place in the darbar hall makes it null and void. Its only a matter of time before one of these cases comes before the Family courts and sets precedence. With local authorities habitually granting registrar licences to unpadh pradhans of Gurdwaras who have little or no understanding of the law, its an accident waiting to happen.

India is less intolerant than E. Asia and Africa but more than Europe.

I don't know about 'Indians' because as a Punjabi, my dna is very different to the average typical 'Indian', but when you talk about Europe you have to remember there is a world of difference between the Nordic Europe and southern Europe. For example, I don't know if you've ever been to Spain or other parts of southern Europe but one of the first things you'll notice is the extreme difficulty you'll experience trying to get hold of fresh milk. It just doesn't exist in the shops. The only milk available is long life UHT or evaporated milk. Thats because the vast majority of southern Europeans are lactose intolerant. As a Punjabi who is also lactose intolerant I put it down to the probable Greek genes in some of my anscestory.

Now, going back to the original post, I strongly feel that if the Gurus were alive today there would be an edict banning the consumption of milk. The dairy industry in Punjab was and indeed still is very natural and humane. The same cannot be said for the mass industrial dairy industry of the UK, Canada and America etc. The cow that gets killed and turned into a big mac is the lucky one. Its the one that has to give us our glass of milk that has to suffer unbelievable and extreme cruelty.

Let him go. Others are about quantity.....We're about quality.

As a quom it's actually beneficial to us if we let the weak minded among us go.

Really, those of us born into a Sikh family are the luckiest human beings on earth. We are truly blessed. But sometimes we don't know what riches we have in our fingertips until we let go of it. It is human to err but that doesn't make it any less foolish.

The man is blessed to be born into a tradition whereby he has a direct line to God......A direct relationship with God. Only a fool would want to introduce a middle man into the equation. Let the fool go.

^ Is there something wrong with you ? :omg: Seriously sister. I'm genuinely concerned.

ROFL!!!!! This quote is gold and basically summarizes your level of "thinking", quotes because I'm not sure if you're bright enough to see more of your own hypocricy. You'd have probably been better off going to the Muslim team; you've proven so far to not have a clue in regards to Sikhi; all you've proven to be is a laugh.

'Patriotism' in countries that have seen war is often a dity word. Indeed as far back as 1775 Samuel Johnson said patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. Being 'unpatriotic' is my god-given right. Once a nation reaches a certain level of maturity it isn't concerned with freedom of thought. It has to have enough to draw upon to be able to tolerate dissent. France is another good example of this. In many surveys it is French men and women that most hate their own country with passion. Mature and older countries seem to be able to deal with this freedom of expression much better than younger nations.

Lets just look at your own head of state for example. The irony here is that she will probably be ousted as head of state in the UK, Australia and New Zealand before Canada gets rid of her. We, the Australians and the Kiwis openly call her a German <banned word filter activated> that needs to beheaded but Canada is the one place she finds widespread support and approval. So please, take the german and let us be done with her.

Now, I fully understand how it is near enough impossible for you to understands these freedoms as a citizen of a young nation. These types of freedoms only come about after centuries of bloodshed, war and civil disturbances in the name of patriotism. As such what is 'acceptable' in the old world is not seen as acceptable in the new world, and vice versa. For example flag waving. With the exception of football, which is more akin to war between nations, national flag waving is the preserve of the far right. In complete contrast, in the new world, those that do not flag wave are seen as unpatriotic. The thought mechanism between the two then is extreme, amd so I don't for one moment criticise you for not understanding. What I will criticise you for however is the way that you cannot even begin to understand historical context and thought mechanisms and so reason with someone on an intellectual level. Lets just hope there's never an international treaty banning the use of 'rofl' and 'lol' as that seems to be the mainstay of your range of vocabulary. In that regards you come across as extremely childish. I mean lets be honest here, you have so little understanding of bills of rights that you were using your 1960 Bill of Rights as a weapon against a national of the Magna Carta of 1215 !!! :biggrin2:

Anyway, to end with, can you please tell me why you've provided a link to some wikipedia page about the term 'global citiy' ? What were you trying to prove with that ? :blink2:

let's look at the FACTS "bruvs",

Sorrry, my bad. I took it for granted you'd be a male. I meant no disrespect.

Now, I really don't know what is the matter with you sis. I've stated since the beginning how England is crap and Canada is probably the nicest country in the world to live if your'e bringing up a family or retired. So what exactly do you feel personally offended by sis ? Are you angry with the Global Cities Index for declaring Toronto a 3rd tier city in the same level as Mumbhai and Jakarta ? Are you angry with the BBC, ABC, CBC, NBC and Fox for only mentioning your country once every 7 years ? Are you angry with the Washinton Post, New York Times, The Times of London , Figaro and the Bild-Zeitung for never ever mentioning your country ? Are you angry with the world's population for forgetting you exist ? Are you angry that even Canada's Head of State chooses to live somehwere else ? You seem to be consumed with anger and sensitivity sis.

Now....to your last point :

You also might want to research which country has a higher rate of immigration from the other country (I'll give you a hint, it's not Canadians flooding the UK).

You may also want to give yourself that lecture about research. In the last decade just over 2.5 million immigrants have come to live permanently in the UK. In the same period Canada accepts exactly 280,000 per year. That makes 2.8 million in the same period. The population density in the UK is 666 people per sq mile, i.e already filled to the brim and ready to explode with no space to swing a cat. The population density in Canada is 8 people per sq mile. In other words, considering how much space there is for newcomers, Canada would have to have admitted 166 million immigrants just to experience the same intensity and pressure on natural and social resources.

Not included in the UK Home Office's figure of 2.5 million official immigrants in the last decade, are the up to a million illegal immigrants that live in London alone (The Govt estimate the figure of somewhere between 500000 and a million whilst the London Mayor's office say even a million is a conservative estimate. Also not included in the official figure of 2.5 million registered immigrants is the estimated couple of million EU citizens here exercising their free movement rights to live and work in the UK without papers or registration.

I'm proud to live in which includes a Charter of Rights and Freedoms that fall very much in line with Sikhi values; which is probably why Sikhs are proud of BOTH their Sikhi and proud Canada's values are in line with theirs.

And what makes you think such rights do not exist here ? Bearing in mind sis the fact that it has only been since the early 1960's that Canada has been allowed to enact it's own laws without permission from London you'd be extremely foolish if you thought many of those rights you take for granted did not originate from London. We too have freedoms. We even have the freedom to hate our country and thats a freedom we exercise with passion. I am a Sikh. I have only one nation and that is the Sikh brotherhood. I have only one flag and that flag is the Nishan Sahib.

Is their a big difference between Sikhs or Asians as a whole in the North of England and the South?

Yes. Massive difference.

Having been to various cities across the UK. I Find that the Asians in the North are a lot more traditional with keeping with their culture and religion. especially in places like Birmingham. But in London and the South they are more westernized.

Well, its all subjective because we each to see what we want our eyes to see but in my experience I've found the complete opposite. Whenever I go to Birmingham for example the first thing I notice is how there are so many 'Punjabi' girls with dyed ginger and blonde hair and silly hair-cut hair styles. You really don't see that as much in London and the south where natural black and long is the norm. Also, with the men, they all seem to love going to pubs in Birmingham and the north. For the London / South going to the pub is very very very rare. Unless you think staying in with the family instead of drinking alcohol in pubs is being 'westernised' I think you're mistaken with your assertion.

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I find places like Manchester, where there are hardly any Sikhs and the Muslims down there don't even resemble 'Asian' but look more Arabic/Moroccan descent

I've seen them. They do not have any 'Arabic/ Moroccon' features. What they have is Persian features, which is understandable as most of Manchester's 'Asians' are kashmiri. We have a lot of Arabic / Moroccon' types here in London as London seems to be attracting millions of these types from France. With free movement within the EU, hundreds of thousands of French muslims and blacks are escaping the endemic and institutionalised racism of Paris and making their home in London instead. By and large, the Arabic / Moroccon types in the UK tend to be berber types in that they are darker than us Punjabis.

Errr you should of seen the wedding i was at two weeks ago. The men where bad enough but the ladies where just as bad. Saw many drinking at the bar knocking them down quick because they didnt want to take their drinks to the table where their mums where. Mind you the mums where no better.. saw many bacardi queens too.

Sign of the times my friend

I didn't say nobody drinks, I said "nobody gets blind drunk anymore". Its a good thing you're not old enough to remember the old days. Things were bad then. At every wedding there used to be people that drank themselves into oblivion. People were paralyticaly drunk.

Now, as neither I nor my wife and immediate family drink alcohol we tend to sit together at tables where nobody drinks so I'd be lying if I said I know anything about females on other tables drinking but the obvious difference between now and the days of yore is that people are obviously drinking sensibly. You no longer see the things that used to be all too common i.e drunken fights and arguments. In fact, I don't think I've even witnessed a raised voice at a wedding reception in the last 10 years. People have clearly raised their standards as a whole.

Can't say its the norm for every community though. I went to a bhatra wedding last summer and they not only had excessive drinking and arguments, but the dancefloor was strictly off limits to females. They had a sort of divider in the middle of the hall which separated the men from the women. The women had no business being in the men's section.

Btw...they also had a live singer on stage rather than just a dj. There were no long tables or green 5 alive but other than that it was like stepping into a time machine and being transported back to the 'old days'.