jaspreet1

Truly sad to see a Hazoori Ragi performing kirtan before dead stone idols. Also for them to have Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji there is not allowed. Akal Takhat Sahib needs to respond to this issue asap.

First two pair was not referring to manhood, but referring to poker and your weak attempt at trying to "legally" corner the truth from being suppressed. Secondly, look up the word fable and then try to correct others. Obviously your understanding of law is very weak. I'm thinking your a mona, if not get one of your mona friends to walk into Parliament with a Kirpan on and see what happens to his "right to wear a Kirpan". Law states that Amridhari Sikhs can wear the Kirpan and those that are not Amritdhari. They cannot wear it. Supreme Law (Constitution) has accepted certain religious qualifications as rights and freedoms for certain members of the Sikh religion. Which gives force and effect to qualification parameters to laws under the Constitution. For example an Amritdhari can have a beard and not be asked to remove it for certain occupations where they require a person to remove facial hair. But a mona cannot claim the same right to have a beard just on the right he claims to be a Sikh. Qualification for religious organizations are different than secular organizations.

Trying to scare Sikhs sangat with fable legal jargon? Not going to work because this is about suitability and qualification according to Sikh religion principles. Just as IBM or another corporation will not hire a board that don't have a clue about business management neither will the Sikh religion allow such unqualified people abuse non-profit organizations run under the Sikh religion. Apply your feeble statements to the Constitution of common law countries. Why don't Mona put on a Kirpan and try to claim they are allowed to wear the Kirpan in public according to the Constitution given freedoms and rights? Yet an amritdhari can walk into a certain countries court house and Parliament with a Kirpan and they have the full right? Before you come to play hardball get a pair at least.

Not much thought process goes into your post and it really shows. Before you continue with anything further find out what Amritdhari and Sehajdhari mean. Then come back to tell everyone what you have learned.

Akal Takhat Issues Aadesh Regarding Gurdwara Committees By: Sikh24 Editors AMRITSAR SAHIB (November 27, 2013)—In a decision taken at Sri Akal Takhat Sahib, it was decided that only practicing Sikhs should be allowed to be members of Gurdwara committees. The decision was taken after Sri Akal Takhat Sahib had received numerous complaints about non-practicing Sikhs carrying out anti-Gurmat activities within Gurdwara premises. Many times, these persons are on the Gurdwara committees and do as they please. Click the link to read further. http://www.sikh24.com/2013/11/akal-takhat-issues-aadesh-regarding-gurdwara-committees/#.UpfGxtJJ7tA

You do not understand why I presented Gursikhs as examples. Once in a century. In the last century we saw Bhai Randhir Singh, Sant Thakur Singh ji, Bhai Gurjant Singh ji, Bhai Sukhdev Singh Babbar, Sant Jarnail Singh ji, Baba Nand Singh ji, Sant Kartar Singh ji, Sant Sunder Singh ji, Sant Gurbachan Singh ji, etc. Guess what, all did ardas. None behaved like you or like minded thinkers. You can use your brain and so far you and like minded thinkers have driven the Panth into the hole deeper by using your brain. Sikhs that do ardas have shown how they have become successful by taking the Guru's path and doing ardas. Yet you call it idealism. For your information when something get's proven and then get's proven numerous times afterwards. That means it is not idealism, but reality. ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਚਲਈ ਨਾਲਿ ਖਸਮ ਚਲੈ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ॥੨੨॥ ang 474 O Nanak, no one can issue commands to the Lord Master; let us offer prayers instead. ||22||

I made it very clear in my second sentence who can successfully run Gurdwaras. Since you and others missed it the first time. Here it is again: I have seen personally the Sikh community grow when Amritdhari/Sehajdhari Sikhs take control of a Gurdwara or be another institution like a school. Do you know why they are successful. Not because how smart they are or how well they are able to make connections with stakeholders in the community. But because they bow at the feet of Guru ji and let Guru ji run the show by following instructions. And for your idealism and realism remark. I see how you want to play God because I have been down that road. I have no desire to play God and all I can do is ardas. Akaali Phula Singh ji did ardas, Baba Buddha ji did ardas, Bhai Lehna ji did ardas, Bhai Sati Das ji did ardas, Baba Gurbaksh Singh ji did ardas and the list goes on. You want to play God by saying pick the better of the two bad apples and let one of them dictate what is Gurmat in a Gurdwara is only going to put the Khalsa Panth in a worse position. And this will create even a bigger divide where the next generation will completely lose all values of Sikhi. When Gursikhs like Baba Buddha ji and Bhai Mani Singh ji were in charge of running Sikh institutions the Khalsa Panth stood strong no matter how much "suffering" it went through. Sant Jarnail Singh ji showed how to run Sikh institution and look at the glory of how many shaheeds the Khalsa Panth had step up to defend the truth. Look now at your hand where people like you want to play God. By playing God you have lost the youth and have lost the Sikhs that once stood along side Sant Jarnail Singh ji on the platform of truth for every human and creature.

Your experience does not speak for all of the Khalsa Panth. I have seen personally the Sikh community grow when Amritdhari/Sehajdhari Sikhs take control of a Gurdwara or be another institution like a school. Do you know why they are successful. Not because how smart they are or how well they are able to make connections with stakeholders in the community. But because they bow at the feet of Guru ji and let Guru ji run the show by following instructions. I can name you other examples from history by starting from the Second Guru of the Sikhs. This plan is ALWAYS successful. No extra effort is needed to implement such plans. I believe along with other Amritdhari Singhs and Kaurs when my Guru says he will stand shoulder to shoulder with me when I follow his hukams that he will do it. I do not second guess or doubt Guru ji at all. I can give you numerous examples of this taking place. The Guru doesn't need some mona or Amritdhari that has a lot of money and political push to do anything, while both disobey Guru Sahib. The Guru is self-sufficient, if you already don't know read Mool Mantar. In there we are told Guru Sahib is self-sufficient. Guru Sahib showed his ability through many Sikhs in the past and the more recent past and is currently showing it through many Sikhs. What you are trying to do is pigeon hole Guru Sahib and then try to run the show on your own by saying a mona is better than a certain amritdhari because of some condition you put on the amritdhari. Obviously you have not done deep contemplation of Gurbani to know..............Sikhs do ardas and don't issue commands to Guru Sahib.

Then find Amritdharis that are not vile people to run the Gurdwara. Obviously you don't say I'll pick the better of the two who are both disobeying Guru Sahib. Well some like you will do this when it comes to Sikhi. But when it comes to surgery that may result in death. You will tell both of these bad surgeons to get lost and you will run to find the best surgeon to conduct the surgery. You value your life more and some value Sikhi more.

Many Christians are selling Christianity to these people literally by paying them to become Christians. These type of people are lazy and hang on to anything that will provide them with living expenses. Christians have the ability to pay others to join initially because they have the funds. Some of the sheep are not smart so they just fall for the Adam and eve magical show. Majority of the people join Christianity to make their lives better not spiritually, but worldly. You make successful business partners has friends and become part of a community that will help you financially. In return be our slave by joining our religion. Let's face it, Punjabis are suckers when it comes to free stuff. The free langar is not enough for them anymore and now they want the institutions to pay them for just being part of a religion. Not going to happen in Sikhi. Sikhi is about quality and not quantity.

If you want Daduwal to shun friends that want to hurt Sikhi. then say the same for Sant Samaj who openly sit with Badal who has been destroying Sikhi ever since he came into power. Punjab youth have been drugged by Badal, yet you don't say the same for Sant Samaj

Any time you are ready to discuss.....everything is a Hukam. I will be more than glad to do it. It can even be done through messages. ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਦਿਤਾ ਖਾਵਣਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਕਹੀਐ ਸਾਬਾਸਿ ॥ Let us all celebrate Him, from whom we receive our nourishment. ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਚਲਈ ਨਾਲਿ ਖਸਮ ਚਲੈ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ॥੨੨॥ O Nanak, no one can issue commands to the Lord Master; let us offer prayers instead. ||22|| ang 474

You have a hard time reading. I said basic understanding of Gurbani. Means you did not have to give a thesis for another to identify your mistakes on understand.....everything is a Hukam. It saves you the time of spending hours on what will come out wrong at the end. Plus you started in a different thread and in the first couple of lines you completely lost the plot. Stop focusing on the audience. They won't hang you from a cross for changing your views away from vedas understanding to Sikhi. Sikhi is not a popularity contest.

I believe in my Guru's Bani, but I went further and followed Dasam Bani that says don't worship stone idols, where you are still hanging on to the stone/picture dead idols and waving your basket full of food before it. Actions speak louder than words.

MS514 wrote to you in a respectful tone and then you go and lash out at him!!! Learn how to respect others and not twist what they are saying. You are such a "show off" who is doing all of this for the audience here and nothing more.

What Jagmeet Singh does not always represent the Sikhs, though the outside world will see it that way. Maharaja Ranjit Singh marrying a Muslim woman did not represent Sikhi. Akali Phula Singh did not look if Maharaja Ranjit Singh was a King. Akali Phula Singh read out a punishment for the King after committing a wrong act. Maharaja Ranjit Singh was also doing an excellent job of protecting Sikhi interest at such a unstable time. I am not saying Jagmeet Singh deserves punishment for the above photo, but making a point that upholding Sikhi teachings takes precedents over temporal Sikh affairs, which even include wars or receiving justice for temporal affiars.

I do not know who gave you your lesson's on how to understand Gurbani, but you really need to rethink your whole basic understanding of Gurbani. First, you can confirm with any Gurmukh and they will tell you, your understanding of Hukam does not make sense whatsoever. Guru ji with so much love says everything is your Hukam as I can ONLY ASK. Guru ji says do ardas before the Supreme Being as you cannot issue commands (Hukams) to him. I would love to discuss what everything is Hukam further, but I will really take this discussion off track. Work it out yourself or get help from someone that will be honest with you. I am being honest, but you already hold a biased view against me and their is an audience here where you are trying to keep your image. Secondly, you are stepping so close to doing Gurbani beadbi by presenting manipulated selected lines of Gurbani and then wrapping them around your thinking. Once again you are expressing vedas thought and not Sikhi. I know a story of a Nanaksar Baba that listened to a certain artist who sang very dirty songs, but I am not sure if it's completely true so I won't go any further with mentioning names. But the point here is that Sikhs do not go out of their way to listen to dirty songs for the fact of trying to "see the Supreme Being in them" In the same way Sikhs don't go out of their way to indulge in the same behaviour as Waris did and then try to find the "Supreme Being in them" Here is another example Sikhs are told not to worship stone idols by Gurbani. So Sikhs don't go and worship stone idols and then justify by saying "I am trying to see the Supreme Being in this stone Idol" Instuctions have been given not to worship stones. Instructions also have been given not to step in the maya (intentionall listen to dirty songs, etc) as your face will be blackened with the maya and it will stick (destroy you) to you. If maya was namaksar by Guru Gobind Singh Ji then today there would be a platform next to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji with very scantily clad images or something of this sort and Sikhs would be bowing down to it. But such things don't exist and you need to rethink on how to interpret Gurbani. We do not namaksar Shiva's ling or maya anything.

Based on what information? In Punjab it was Shiv Sena showing resistance to the Sikhs during Bhai Rajoana. Every time the police need conmen to stir the pot they go to Shiv Sena and let them attack innocent Sikhs. Shiv Sena members completed beadbi of Guru Granth Sahib ji. In Delhi not to long ago when the incidents took place it was Shiv Sena attacking Sikhs with rocks and then the police fired on the Sikhs who were trying to protect themselves and those that were around them. Random people just don't start attacking Sikhs, especially when Sikhs are protesting 1984 genocide or asking for their rights. Also the word you were looking for was not worried, but vigilant. Sikhs stay vigilant of the enemies who can attack at any time. I can tell you why are you wearing a kirpan, don't worry about any attacks as the times when you got attacked so easily are long gone. Gurbani reminds us to stay vigilant of the 5 vices as they might look to be sleeping, but they can spark when I have dropped by vigilant stance. As the 5 vices rest inside they are also outside us and they come in many forms and try to weaken us.

What I have noticed on this site is that a lot of the people discussing like to put words in others mouth to take the discussion off track and give them the advantage. I did not judge Waris once in my post discussing the scantily clad women pictures, but asked how far he would go. It was a fair assessment based on the information provided. Yet we still get these type of people who twist every word. I actually expected that Sikhs would be honest when they discuss, but they hold on to there position so hard that they forget what their actual interest and needs are as a Sikh. What makes you any different than those who don't read Gurbani? Reading Gurbani is not a ritual, but is there to be absorbed and then used to redefine how we behave. You have 1177 post on here, just under 2 years. That works out to be almost 2 post a day. What do you accomplish by trying to trick me and taking the advantage point?

This is the first time I have seen the photos of Waris. Taking the above photos into consideration. Now it makes me think how far Waris was willing to go with the advertisement of GAP. Clearly he has no problem posing with women in the above photographed manner. Some were saying at least Waris is not posing or dancing with scantily clad women. Well that just got thrown back into their faces. Or are some people going to turn these pictures around and say Waris is protecting these women from the big bad wolf?

I'm done with this discussion. However you are not logically comparing here. When I ask, did the Guru stand with a woman in this way when she was not married to him? It is a comparison that can be made because the subject which is the man in the dastar is changing ONLY. The behaviour is still the same. The behaviour here is the woman body up against Waris or hypothetically speaking Guru Sahib. With me so far? What you are doing is changing the subject to Guru Sahib and then also changing the behaviour (playing video games etc.). Which creates a completely different situation and is not comparable to what we are talking about here. Not only are you changing the behaviour, but you are changing the behaviour to something that did not exist in Guru Sahib time like video games or driving a car. With your comparison you are also saying women who would stand in this fashion with a man who is not married to them do not exist. Yet your partner that liked your post n3osingh only likes to tell you the honest truth of Charitropakhyan when it suits his view point. Maybe he is not good at understanding comparisons either. Anyways I thought I let you know for your benefit.

Dhadhi keep Sikh history fresh in our minds. This also is not to be forgotten. Taliban and Shiv Sena are barbaric terrorist organizations. Did the Americans through the legal book at the Taliban? How many Sikhs that don't want the above 1986 information released supported the action of the Americans against the Taliban? Why the double standard? Shiv Sena rapped, murdered, tortured, and beat your brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers in 1984. Yet you cheer for the Americans to take the Taliban out without going through a legal process!!!! Not to long ago Sikhs heads were chopped off by the Taliban how many of these did you land in prison or did you get hung by the legal system?

Why are discussions that look at Gurbani deeper being closed? Two discussions on looking at Gurbani shabads have been closed in a matter of days. http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/73210-tesiya-dancing-before-sri-guru-granth-sahib-ji/ http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/73167-nanaksar-worshipping-photos/

Say for a second you are right and Guru ji is saying the above about Sants. Just so we are clear the word ਸੰਤਨ is not singular and means more than one. So which Sants at the time this Gurbani was written did the Guru hold in his vision while doing simran? I'm ask you to read the Rahoa before going further here, as the Rahoa tells the complete understanding.

Gurbani is written in Gurmukhi, so provide the ang first.