crayzy

<<True, again another ritual done without thought, why touch your head to it?>> Did it ever occur to you that you dont know *why* it is done? You touch it to your matha to show nimarta and gratitude for being allowed to do it. In general you do it when you start and when you finish, both times when you touch it to your matha you thank Guru Sahib for this chance.

something along the lines of keeping the air above Guru Sahib fresh I think. Its standard practice in the court of South Asian Kings.

ALL WELCOME TO JOIN and discuss Sikhi etc server : dalnet (irc.dal.net) channel : #sikhawareness for those that dont know IRC is basically real time chat hosted on specific channels, in this case the channel is #sikhawareness and is hosted on a server called dalnet. How to use IRC: First of all, to access the IRC server, you'll need a client. Just like you can access a website with Internet Explorer or Netscape or Mozilla or another web browser, you can access an IRC server with any IRC client. You have many options, so it's mostly a matter of finding a client that suits your taste. If you use the Mozilla browser (an excellent alternative to IE, especially if you dislike Microsoft, like open source software, or are interested in cool features like tabbed browsing), you probably have ChatZilla already installed. There should be a little link to it on the left of the status bar at the bottom of the window. For Windows users: Trillian is a chat client that can connect to IRC as well as AIM, ICQ, MSN, and Yahoo, all at the same time with the same program. If you use other IM networks, this is an ideal client because it makes it all very simple. mIRC is by far the most popular IRC client for Windows users. It's got all the features you'll need. For Mac users: Ircle is a common Mac IRC client and is suggested by the folks at mIRC for Mac users. Mice iRC is an IRC client for OSX, and seems to be better liked than Ircle. Want to try out IRC without installing anything? There are many web-based IRC clients that you can use right in your browser, such as this one. Ultimately, these type will be slower and often more prone to bugs/crashing, but they're good when you're away from your usual computer or can't install a program. Setting up your client: Most clients will ask you for the following information: Nickname: Choose your own, but remember that using the same username as in the boards will help others to recognize you. Channel: #sikhawareness (Don't leave out the #. All channels -- the chat "rooms" -- start with #.) Real Name: Doesn't have to be your legal name. Use whatever you want. Server name: irc.dal.net Port: 6667 or 7000 If you are unsure about settings, leave them at their defaults. If you have trouble, contact me or ask someone in the boards. We'll do our best to make sure you're able to participate. ...if the regular mods here want to made ops pm me with your nick. Otherwise i am online pretty much 24 hours a day so I can monitor to channel or at least help. If you dunno how to use irc check out these links http://www.mirc.com/ircintro.html http://www.dal.net/ http://docs.dal.net/docs/newbie.html use mirc or trillian, or chatzilla etc etc imo trillian is the simplest to use - these are all free downlads - google them. Chatzilla only works with mozilla and firefox Hope to see y'all there

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once again. You havent read Gurbani have you. How dyou know what the person born into poverty did his/her past life. "lame" is not an argument. the misuse of scripture by elitist Hindu castes doesnt make anything less or more false/true not true. The Gurus had no aim for control over the population. No one was forced to be Sikh, it wasnt necessary for anyone to be Sikh. On the contrary it was the Sikhs who had to struggle to get into Sikhism. They would be rejected by society and have prices put on their heads. You're trying to look at Gurbani from the point of view of a political historian. Let me remind you that Sikhism has never held a state. People used to have to go out of their way to be Sikhs, Sikhs never went out of their way to make other people into Sikhs. This political dichotomy is ridiculous in that there was NO Sikh society. You were free to join/leave as you pleased. A true Sikh gives himself to Waheguru and forgets all thought about reward/punishment. The aim of Sikhi is to transcend karma. As far as ego goes "haumai navai naal virod hai, due na vasai khatae". All that happens is because of God - this is the psyche of a Sikh, a Sikh is detached from all that happens. As far as karma goes, if you are evil you pass through narak, 84 lak jaouns etc depending on what you did. If you were good but not mukt then you get another chance. There is a lot written in Gurbani about different life forms. no, I wont give you a break. Karl Marx has no authority over the universe. All he had was a theory. You try to argue Marxist and Hegellian theory agains Sikhi but you haven even read what the the Guru Sahiban have written. Hold on to this life all you like. you'll lose this world as well as the next. so you hold marxism above Sikhi? A drunk German is Higher than the Guru Sahiban in your view? Marx himself didnt believe what he wrote. He hated communal living, it was just a theory, forget his thoery and find his diary to read, thatll wake you up. And all politics based on marxism has been oh so successful has it not. Modern economics/politics does not hold very high regard for classical thoery, yet you try to contrast it to Sikhi. Read Gurbani, even in english on sikhitothemaxx.com and see what Sikhi is about. Sikhi is unaffected by political ideology. Come back and argue about it when you know what it is.

no Dasam granth Sahib states epic battles of Good v Evil that took pace hundreds of thousands of Years ago. Sikhi is the Good against the evil, whatever form the evil may be in. The Mughals were not evil, they were just politicians. Whether the evil you fight is in your own mind or outside is of no consequence. Like you say God created evil. But God is innately good by definition. God is the source of all, the true proponents of evil, the demons and whatnot will not be punished. The humans who give into them will not be punished either. There is no punishement in Sikhi, you reap what you sow. If you sow seeds that lead you to narak then you have no one to blame but yourself. Sikhi is the weapon against this. Its Kalyug, evil has reign over the world. Sikhi is the way out. very eloquent. But for Sikhi to have been given direction by evil would mean that evil would have to have existed first. The truth is the contrary. Sikhi has ben around forever. It was merely exposed to us by the Gurus as a weapon in our fight against evil. For those of those that wish to fight. Nowhere in Sikhi does it tell you what you have to do. All it is contemplation of action and consequence and the nature of God and His saints. Once again, the Gurus illumination of Sikhi was not out of social need. Their desire was to create the possibility of individuals who are not evil. In Gurbani it says that true Sikhs are very rare. It doesnt say to create huge 'pure' settlements. A sikh is an individual not a society. Sikhi is here to give us the chance to kill the evil within ourselves to get close to God. You look at everything from an outside perspective on a small timescale. Before there was any creation there was only God and god is, by definition, good. Evil is simply the imaginative play of God, an obstacle between Him and us, and the game is for us to defeat it to get to God. Or join it and end up in narak. This is an oxymoron. Evil cannot be good by definition. You assume that evil created good but that isnt true. Good was there before evil. Evil is simply the play of God, as is good. 'Good' is simply a point of view. From a Sikhi perspective, 'good' is what takes you closer to God, 'evil' is what seperates you from Him. who says read Gurbani and you'll see the taste of God. Do it well enough and you will feel it. no arguments there. Of course you would already know that if you read Gurbani. God created evil, but people love evil. How many people say things like 'even while I was doing it I knew it was wrong but I kept goin'. I know I have plenty of times. God created Evil. Mankind enhanced it with his love for evil, which landed us in Kalyug. Its an old story that has and will repeat itself. The task of the human is to defeat evil and renounce all 'doing'. All 'good' or 'bad' results in karma. In Sikhi we aim to transcend that by placing everyting in Gods hands. Everything 'bad' that happens is the will of God. Everything 'good' that happens is the will of God. As it stands, when something bad happens we blame someone else, and when good happens we run to the front saying 'it was me' No offence, but if you want to argue about Sikhism you're going to need a real knowledge of Gurbani, which is in effect what Sikhi is[/is]