Sinister

EXERCISE!!!

i know many famers in the US and Canada!!!! none of them practice agriculture like what they showed in the video??????? Ive seen it first hand (many of the agriculturist who are close relatives of mine, love their animals--> usually boast about them and are proud of them) The video showed an extremely bias veiw (showed a few bad apples of the industry) The video shows extreme torturous ways of animal treatment (but i know for a fact that the majorty of dairy agriculturists are not like that) ei- will not kill pack animals into tight buildings and milk them by hurting them! as for the slaughter industry--- that was horrible (its the awful price of mass production, but their are consumer choices you can make) animals should be treated with more respect (more sanitation)......and we as North American consumers should be ready to pay more for our BIG Mac's and chicken burgers. FOR THOSE WHO ARE AGAINST THESE PRACTICES SHOULD SUPPORT THE ORGANIC FOOD MARKET---THEY USE NO GROWTH HORMONES IN THEIR ANIMALS AND THERE ANIMAL FEEDS ARE ALL ORGANIC AS WELL, organic chicken rearers use open door environments to breed most of there chickens. Lets not taint the entire agricultural industry as negative....when it is the consumer that is driving the farmers and slaughter houses to do what they do!!!!

YESSSSSS the week are being weeded out!!!! There is a study done on this (I am sure), Humanity (and that includes the opposite sex) are going through SEXUAL SELECTION. the theory states that both male and females are more attracted to people with LESS hair!!!! Why?: the theory states that this can be explained via divergeant evolution thesis, we are perferring people with less hair because humanity is distinguishing itsel from its earlier ancestors (primates). sounds like a pretty sound thesis to me~ but I have no opinion on the matter.

I think the girl should be allowed to wear the cross as symbol of her faith. (Its a common freedom that we should be promoting in a democracy).

"Again i will have to reiterate that you seem to contradict yourself on many points. You start off by saying that "sikhs guru's were male for a reason" but then later on agree with me that the Guru was not the body but the gyaan within that body. The two statements cannot coeixst. EIther you accept the Guru to exist only in the form of gyaan or you can make the Guru out to be a gender specific human being." Yea I saw that one! lol... my bad Gender specificity....hmmmmm....that poses a hole new set of problems in my beleif system! Im faced with a dillema---- The divine message i agree is the guru, but according to my beleif system the "guru" was created by the vessel itself. couldnt the vessels be capable of producing "gyaan"? ????????????????????????????Im starting off on the wrong foot! --- I still dont know what Sikhi regards as the "sacred"??????????????????????????????????????

That was a really good reply, thanks

To Quest4Akal, "I know gursikhs that can leave their body and travel to other galaxies and your saying guru ji couldn't. I know of spiritualists who have written many books of leaving your body and traveling the universe"---Quest4Akal Ok lets meet then (its much easier now...I wont have to spend the night in boring Calgary...desolate Canada) Ill fly to M 31 (andromeda galaxy) tonight Do you need directions? Right Ascension 00 : 42.7 (h:m) Declination +41 : 16 (deg:m) Distance 2900 (kly) Visual Brightness 3.4 (mag) Apparent Dimension 178x63 (arc min) See you and your "Learned singhs" their! Ill have the chaa ready before 1800........ ......<banned word filter activated> To Rajinder Singh, The Jahari Kala was not written or directed to be written by our guru's, I will not accept it! WHY.....FOR ONE MOMENT THINKKKKKKKK! WHY WOULD GURU NANAK DO SUCH THINGS WHEN IT WAS REALISM THAT OUR GURU WAS PREACHING????......... Remember the story when guru Nanak saw Hindu's in the ganga throwing water into the air! He said: what are u doing? They replied: we are giving water to our ancestors that live in Far off worlds, million of miles away! Guru Nanak then jumped into the ganga and started splashing and throwing water into the air! They asked: What are you doing? dont be DISRESPECTFUL! Guru ji replied: My farm in the punjab is always dry...and I must water it! The people in the ganga burst out into laughter...."you cant possibly beleive that water will get that far" Guru Ji replied: My farm is only a couple of hundred miles away....yet your ancestors are millions of miles off, how can you beleive water can get to them? People were amazed at the RATIONALITY OF THE GURU: AND THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE FELL IN LOVE WITH......NOT THEM PERFORMING MIRACLES AND ACTING LIKE MAGICIANS! BUT THERE WISDOM, THEIR PRACTICALITY, THEIR REALISM, THEIR LOVE FOR HUMANIY Guru ji was preaching rationality and morality....the sikhs who think ohterwise I veiw as completely detached from reality. ~Lets grow up people, the miracles that were performed where later made up to stratify the guru's into magicians.....when truly they were more than mere magicians! regards, sinister !

To Kharkoo; " As to why only male vessels were used and not female is irrelevent to the essence of Sikhi." NOPE-- shanty unreasonable shots like that wont hold much truth. The sikh guru's were male for a reason! The Guru Gaddi was kept "in the family" after the 5th guru for a reason as well! watever way we look at it, theres something going on? whether we have any right to investigate is irrelavant! (AN AGREEMENT WITH HUMBLE KAUR) and I will drop such questioning. Kharkoo you are probably the most rational sikh on this forum and I do show gratitude. I will agree with this, "THE GURU WAS NOT THE BODY BUT THE GYAAN WITHIN THAT BODY." BINGO But was this gyaan coming from god? why did god need 10 "vessels" (and an 11th) to complete the message? I veiw the guru's as men though (great ones....but men nonetheless) (this jyot thing that you spend time in explaining I personally find offensive....because each guru did have a characteristic personality); Our guru's were social and political scientists.....masters of the art of hypotheical/observative sciences. With all these traits, they developed a message....this message is what I hold in High regard as 'divine, sacred and truthful'. To mystify the guru's into something as 'the same incarnation one after the other'...well i dunno....but that doesnt fit into my beleif system (not now or probably ever will). So this gyan did exist in our guru's BUT they did not pass the same gyan over to next guru.....why WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF REPEATING THE SAME MESSAGE 10 TIMES? EVERY GURU CONTRIBUTED SEPARATELY TO THE GROWTH OF SIKHI...SOME LESS, SOME MORE?....MAYBE? BUT ALL OF THEM IMPORTANT IN THE SAME RESPECT! "ALL OF THEM DIVINELY INFLUENCED BY WISDOM" "ALL OF THEM INFLUENCED BY SOCIETY" (to some extent...of course) They probably adjusted there ways to deal with us, after all humanity was the audience and had to buy the message if the gurus where in search of change! 'enchanting' and mystifying the identity/existence of the guru's will kinda harm it, to the point of disbelief (my belief) I agree you do have better faith than me.......lets keep it that way, this way the the site gets some rational characteristic explaining sikhi as well. regards, sinister

"Guru ji talks about numurous galaxies, why cause he seen em. I know gursikhs that can leave their body and travel to other galaxies and your saying guru ji couldn't. I know of spiritualists who have written many books of leaving your body and traveling the universe. AND YOUR SAYING GURU JI COULDN'T." so you know gursikhs that can leave their body! hahahahahahahhaha Im not even goin to bother to reply to that! Do you fly off every night in your jama's? how many times have you been to the moon? Ill pray for you.....not so that you can rectify your temper...but to fact that God can help you rectify your stupidity (sorry but my merci has its limits too) NOW, As for my opinion of the guru's, I veiw them as great men, (social scientists and genius's in their own right) they carried a 'divine' message for us and to others around the world. But we can see a profound traditional similarities between islam and hinduism, jainism and buddhism with sikhi. If Guru ji did travel to rome, It would have been mentioned somewhere (EVEN THE SLIGHTEST BIT OF EVIDENCE WOULD HAVE EXISTED IN OUR SCRIPTURES...EVEN AN AWKNOLEGEMENT OF CHRISTIAN EXISTENCE) Why are we mystifying them to a point of ridiculous disbelief (the same the christians do with jesus). Why do we beleive the sakhi's and reduce our gurus to MAGICIANS, when they were clearly greater than this! To Gupt Dasan Daas, "guru je took the quazis son to prove it to the muslims" In my opinion, guru ji did not have to prove anything to anyone! thus the beleif in such things is ridiculous (its not in our Bani, and guru ji would not include such a things in the bani). Did guru ji know that their was planets abroad?.....yes....but so did many before astronomers before the guru. We have to remember that Christopher Columbus had discovered the new world before Guru Nanak reached his age of philosophy (the world and many other astronomical observations were already being made, the world was proven to be round from the previous flat hypothesis) and like these men are gurus were also hypothesizing the same things....an indication that they were also supreme genius's, masters in the observative/hypothetical sciences. OUR GURU JI'S I BELEIVE DID NOT FLY AROUND TO DIFFERENT GALAXIES; GIVING MUSLIMS SPACE TOURS TO PROVE THEMSELVES (SOUNDS KINDA RIDICULOUS NOW DOESNT IT0! THEY HAD A MUCH MORE IMPORTANT AGENDA, SAVING US FROM PEOPLE LIKE QUEST4AKAL! Just an opinion open for disagreement if one wishes!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA THATS A GOOD ONE!

mmmmmmmmmm, nothing like a good genetically inhanced protein product! yum yum yum yum yum yum gobble gobble gobble gobble gobble OH YEAAAAAA

Theirs no record of Guru ji travelling by SEA!!!!! THeres no record of him travelling to athens (a port used by sea travellers) etc etc. Guru ji did not enter western civilization until the western civilization came to us! IF GURU JI DID VISIT ROME THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN A PROFOUND CHRISTIAN CHARACTER INFLUENCING THE FORMER PART OF THE GURUS TEACHINGS....THIS IS NOT SEEN....THE TEACHINGS ARE CONSISTENT.....AND UNINFLUENCED FROM THE WESTERN TEACHINGS! LETS USE SOME COMMON SENSE HERE PEOPLE! Its kinda silly..Rome was pretty advanced and would have documented such a visit... Not every day an Indian walked into roman streets! Remember Martin luther also Travelled to rome in the 15th century from germany...hes well documented! Why create something entirely aritificial? I dont get it?

"A Sikh does not look at the risks to himself. A Sikh goes to protect those that can not protect themselves. Yea there are a lot of things happening and a lot of risks involved, but there are many people, humans living in Iraq that need help right now. We cant just say leave them be I'm not going to risk it. I think this is one things Sikh's are known for, that they will sacrafice themselves, put themselves in harms way in order to help another human being." Well I see where your coming from...but lets look at it from a practical side Obviously the person that does such a thing must take into consideration that something can go awfully wrong.....must be prepared to die for the cause. Now what the abductees did is wrong....but so is what the aid workers doings. WHY IRAQ LOOK AT OUR OWN COUNTRY! MILLIONS OF PEOPLE STARVING TO DEATH CANT THEY HELP THEIR? IF YOU WANT TO HELP YOU CAN GO ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD (THOUSANDS OF PLACES IN AFRICA)...ALL IM SAYING IS THAT THIS ENTIRE SITUATION COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED. this is the US governments mess, let them clean it up! Charities should be banned from operating in Iraq (especially until they have improved security), the only reason the US government is pushing for charitable work in Iraq is because their national treasury is bankrupt! Theres hundreds of places where aid is needed more desparately than Iraq... look no further (pakistan .... earthquake, India, almost all of afirca, sri lanka....remember the sunami victims or has that become old news?, the list goes on) A country as energy rich as Iraq does not need our help! I would never go there....and I can say with great honesty I would not donate to a charity that situates itself in Iraq (especially when the charitable organization jeopardizes innocent lives)! Theirs actually a study done that PROVES: RELEIF EFFORTS IN WAR AREAS ACTUALLY PROLONGS THE CONFLICT AS MORE RESOURCES ARE AVAILABLE TO THE REGION! MORE PEOPLE END UP DYING! THROWING AID AT THE IRAQIS IS A TEMPORARY, SHORT SITED AND VAIN ATTEMPT AT SOLVING A MOJOR PROBLEM! I still show no sympathy for these people---> If you want to do charity work in iraq....grab a rifle in one hand and the newly drafted iraqi constitutional laws in the other....only then will you be doing a service to the Iraqi people!\ THERES NOTHING BRAVE ABOUT GETTING YOURSELF KILLED FOR ALL THE WRONG REASONS...ESPECIALLY WHEN THINGS CAN BE AVOIDED. YOU KNOW WHAT LOST SOUL, IM AMAZED AT THE PEOPLE ON THIS SITE TO.....SO VERY VERY FAR FROM REALITY!

To kharkoo, Why did the guru's all come in the form of MALES! TO MIMIC AN AUTHORITATIVE FIGURE---NO ONE WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED A FEMALE. do not insult your reason and intellect. Do not elevate the gurus to non-human mystical and perfect entities, despite their wisdom they were limited to dealing with us, humans. Thus the faith had to act and mimic our society in order to successfully deliver its message (to some extent of course)! (read: evil the author of Sikhi...a post on this site) I do not worship the gurus, I worship what they taught!!!!!! for the people that havent figured that out already! Jai tenang is on his mark: WE CANNOT REWRITE HISTORY AS YOU ARE TRYING TO DO! regards sinister

to Premakranti, man was designed to practice monogamy (read my first reply)...if you want a logical explanation why! I dont believe theirs any fanatics here but youll have to learn to take criticism from sikh conservatives and liberals alike if you come forth with such claims without proof. I do agree however with the fact that many on this site are conservatives, but the conservative reaction is to counterbalance your awkward and utopian veiw of life! Your veiws have nothing to do with the initial question? Free sex? no marriage? what nonsense is this? you cant fight a tradition of marriage that has been present since the beginning of civilization and that too with unworldly claims (especially the gurduwara story, i dunno about that). I do however agree with you that Guru Gobind Singh had more than one wife (as all great people of the past had.....and as ACCURATELY stated by his biographers), and what most people on this site claim is a silly coverup story that also lacks proof, Guru ji was a human (a great one...for that matter) that was embedded into the social structure of his time. In order to fit in amongst the elite they had to act and behave as authoritative nobles of their time (mimicry if you might call it, their actions must mimic other authoritative figures of their time so that people would take them seriously). so does that mean we should practice polygamy....NO....its not part of our social system thus polygamy has no part in our lives. As sikhs should we accept the fact that guru ji had more than on wife?...yes But also along with it understand for what reasons? the question was initially wether its ok to deeply care about someone? and any rational person would say yes. LOVE IS NOT ALWAYS FOLLOWED BY SEXUAL DESIRE, MANY PEOPLE ON THIS SITE NEED TO GET THAT OUT OF THEIR HEADS.