crayzy

none of us believes what we do for no reason - we're gonna have to agree to disagree

and honestly, no one is going to change their mind over what they read on a forum.

then why should we follow this blokes agenda

what is senchiya>?

i thought nau nidh were supernatural treasures...How caome they are considered more desireable than ridh sidh?

CAn someone also say what Ridh Sidh are and why Nau Nidh are considered better?

Adi Granth Sahib = the first Granth Sahib, which Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave Gurgaddi to.

Dasam Granth Sahib = collection of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's writings, and revered as equal to Guru Granth Sahib by some Sikhs, whereas others claim it to contain false info...

its a big debate...lets not turn this thread into a debate.

supanai aaeiaa bhee gaeiaa mai jal bhariaa roe ||

In a dream, He came, and went away again; I cried so many tears.

all you need is a font to use in word or openword or wae you use.

You can download one from sikhitothemax, put it in your fonts folder, double click, and its installed.

try deleting all cookies and temporary internet files.

If that doesn't work try a different browser.

wonder how he got his doctorate with his poor grasp of english grammar.

blatisingh why dont you tell us a story...I gather from other thrads you're a Rara Sahib sevak...and you said on SA that you have read the book about Suleman...

share the knowledge

=)

It goes deeper:

From: "Atheist Society" < atheist_society@hotmail.com >

To: afreethinker@hotmail.com

Subject: Dear Ali we have a problem, please help!

Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 20:40:30 +0000

Dear Ali, please help us. We were very impressed with your website and agreed that religion in general is no longer needed, we can all be humanistic and live in peace and harmony. We are in the process of making a website which will hopefully help to destroy the religious doctrines which divide humanity. We were doing great with knocking out Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Baha'i, even Buddhism but we have gotten very stuck with Sikhism. This religion is (to put it nicely) "a big pain in the <admin-profanity filter activated>" (Please pardon the language) We have only found one site which tries (very poorly) to argue that even this religion is not needed, but the argument is irrational and very unscientific unlike the very rational arguments you use.

When we read the following from your website, we found what you said to be amazingly interesting: "Doubt Everything Find Your Own Light." "Last Words Dear friend, if you look for meaning in life, don’t look for it in religions; don’t go from one cult to another or from one guru to the next. You can expend all your life or look for eternity and will find nothing but disappointment and disillusionment. Look instead in service to humanity. You will find “meaning” in your love for other human beings. You can experience God when you help someone who needs your help. The only truth that counts is the love that we have for each other. This is absolute and real. The rest is mirage, fancies of human imagination and fallacies of our own making." By Ali Sina Why is this interesting? Because we found this religion of Sikhism to be in agreement with you! This is why we have a problem. We tried to look at their holy text (Adi Granth) but didnt find the usual absurdities we found in the other religious books. In fact its refreshingly inspiring and very good!? Maybe you can have some better luck.

We tried to visit a couple of websites and got more of a shock. Did you know that they believed in Democracy, freedom of speech, choice, expression, freedom of religion, pluralism, human rights, equality between men and women, equality of all people regardless of race, religion, caste, creed, status etc. 300 years before the existance of the USA! Theirs is the only religion which says in their religious scriptures that women are equal in every respect to men. They even had women soldiers leading armies in to battle against "you know who" (The usual suspects - Muslims!) Their history is a proud one, they fought in both World Wars. Even Hitler praised them for their bravery and Aryan heritage! Dear Ali, this religion is hard for us to try and criticise but you are an expert and may find some faults overlooked by us. In their holy book, there is a round earth, water is made from chemical elements, there is even mention of the evoution process, big bang and life on other planets! This is pretty crazy and amazing stuff, who would have thought that these New York taxi drivers (There are lots of Sikh taxi drivers in NY) would have such an amzing faith? We read up some information of what Bertrand Russell had to say about Sikhism, this is the man who destroyed Christianity (same applies to Islam and Judaism) and exposed its absurdities, but even this great man got stuck when it came to Sikhism! In fact he gave up and said "that if some lucky men survive the onslaught of the third world war of atomic and hydrogen bombs, then the Sikh religion will be the only means of guiding them. Russell was asked that he was talking about the third world war, but isn't this religion capable of guiding mankind before the third world war? In reply, Russell said, "Yes, it has the capability, but the Sikhs have not brought out in the broad daylight, the splendid doctrines of this religion which has come into existence for the benefit of the entire mankind. This is their greatest sin and the Sikhs cannot be freed of it."

Please bear in mind that Bertrand Russell was a great philosopher and free thinker. We have been trying for weeks now to find a way to fairly and rationally criticize and find fault with this religion but have failed. We even found out that there are many people converting to this religion in the USA and Europe as well as Russia (Mostly well educated and affluent white people). We tried to find some of their literature and see what kind of claims they make, but unfortunatley they have no missionary material as they do not have missionsaries! People become Sikh by learning usually by chance or by coming in to contact with them. They are currently the 5th biggest religion in the world and growing quite fast in the west and Russia. Please help us as we are stuck, to give you an example of they are all about we found the following websites: http://www.sikhnet.com (This is a pretty good site and helpful) http://www.hope.at/sikhism (This site is very easy to follow, check it out, they have a Womans section and a Martyrs section, it looks like that you are not the only one trying to expose the falseness of Islam, Sikhs scholars did it hundreds of years ago and got killed for it!) http://www.sikhs.org (This is the site that was on CNN when Sikhs in the USA were mistaken for Arabs and Middle Easterners and were attacked by mindless morons)

Please help us out, we cant make our website about religion being the cause of war and disharmony when we have this one and only religion which makes a hell of a lot of sense! lol (I thought Atheism had all the answers but were kind of stuck now.) We look forward to hearing from you, we respect your great views and want to promote them to everyone, thank you for your time, take care.

Dr. John Smith

yes..." john smith" was the best name the could come up with??? Our good doctor has bad grammar and a tendency for melodrama too...a bollywood fan perhaps...

This is shameful...who the heck would go to such lengths. Trying to promote the 'truth' of Sikhism by lying...fun

From: "Atheist Society" < atheist_society@hotmail.com >

To: afreethinker@hotmail.com

Subject: Dear Ali we have a problem, please help!

Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 20:40:30 +0000

apparently they have access to his hotmail account....to an atheist called "Ali"...

also mention dilution of definitions os Sikhism and the character of Guru Nanak Dev Ji in schools - state sponsored misinformation dissolve the identity of Sikhs.

Bhai Rama Singhs book is not the only place - listen to the suleman recordings, I remeber someone saying theres a book about the suleman thing as well expalining more detail.

At the end of the day you have a logical hypothesis, but the idea that hell and jamdoot exist has more empirical evidence, which for religious issues is extremely rare. No doubt in my mind.

i think there was a description of hell in the suleman tape.

The akal takht had been attacked in 1984... why didnt no baba show theyre shakti then and stop all the takht entering the compound of darbar sahib!!! BABA COULDNT EVEN BEE SEEN!!!!!!!! The gorvment of india had destryed countless  number of guru shabad gurui granth sahib ji ... how did that come too happen???? TELL ME WHY NO BABA CAME TO STOP THOSE TANKS!!!!! Baba Jarnail singh ji did numerous paat over the years... why did he get shot???? did he do something bad in his previous life as you had said before about my mother!!!!!

151352[/snapback]

It is manmat to show shakti. Sant Isher SIngh Ji had left panj bhootak chola, Jathedar Mohinder Singh Ji offered help, Sant Jarnail Singh ji turned it down...Jathedarji referred to Sant Ji as 'poora soorma' long before any of the trouble started.

True sants left it to happen coz

a) they are veparvah

b) they live according to Wahegurus hukam

c) Look at the revival in Sikhi created by the attacks - it was good for the panth that they happened they way they did. You think Sant Jarnail Singh didnt have the shakti to win the battle? - Its written in Gurbani that God does our bhalla and we dont recognise it.

As far as your other claims

Suniai Dookh Paap ka naas.

If you do a real ardas with pure sharda, and if paat is done with pure jugti then nothing can overturn it.

each to their own

Bahadur Shah asked Guru Gobind Singh Ji who's Dharam is better, Guruji replied "tumko tumara khoob, ham ko hamara khoob"

i.e. yours is beautiful to you, mine is beautiful to me.

The truth is immortal = Sat Sri Akal

no need

Its microsoft software

they may as well give you a virus download

yes, we're not supposed to show enmity against anyone as Sikhs

Sant Ji wanted Khalistan only in the event that human rights abuses were not recognised and stopped by the Indian govt.

as far as quotes all I can think of right now is:

"Raaj na chahu, mukt na chahu, man preet charan kamalarae"

Bertrand Russell was a great philosopher and free thinker and is said to have given Christianity (same applies to Islam and Judaism) a body blow and exposed its absurdities; but even this great man got stuck when it came to Sikhism! In fact he gave up and said "that if some lucky men survive the onslaught of the third world war of atomic and hydrogen bombs, then the Sikh religion will be the only means of guiding them.” Russell was asked that he was talking about the third world war, but isn't this religion capable of guiding mankind before the third world war? In reply, Russell said, "Yes, it has this capability, but the Sikhs have not brought out in the broad daylight, the splendid doctrines of this religion which has come into existence for the benefit of the entire mankind. This is their greatest sin and the Sikhs cannot be freed of it." What Bertrand was most impressed with was that Sikhism does not have a doctrine of evangelism that it does not go out to try to subvert and convert. In some ways he thought that Sikhs should go out and propagate their great faith.

Does anyone knoe where he wrote this, what article/book?

Thanks

edit: Ive searched a lot of his books and google, the only websites that mention Russell and Sikhism in the same sentence are Sikh websites. I'm beginning to think someone totally made this up

Is Guru Sahib not with you outside the darbaar?

Its the plume on Guru Jis turban

He bowed down to get amrit from 5 Sikhs - and said wherever there are 5 Sikhs recognise that the Guru is there.

Individually we are supposed to be humble, not walk around telling ourselves that we are kings.

If indeed a Sikh is a king then ask yourself on what level are you a Sikh? How many true 100% Gursikhs like e.g. Baba Nand Singh Ji are there. If people like him didnt wear kalgi how can we step up and start wearing it.

Just like any royal; court the son of the King cannot wear the crown of the King.

because are Guru Gobind Singh jis sevadars - kalgi is the mark of a King, we are slaves of the king.

Together we are his roop, individually we are not.