sikhiseeker

We endlessly debate issues and we start going down to minute detail (in essence there is nothing wrong in that), what if this, what if that, what if the other, what we forget, conveniently, is to actually walk the walk.

For God sake guys, WALK the WALK. Do it! Get that simran going, get that naam going, see Akaal in EVERYONE, forget the naffrat, the vheer, the viroodh, love God, love Him like your life depended on it. And you know what, Guru Ji will assist you in all things, all these questions that your maan sprouts up to distract you, all will become shaant, all will become peaceful and then you will know the truth. But all we do is argue and argue, we never go near the practical.

> I fully understand your point, but for some it is harder than others to "walk the walk". The connection with our sat guru and parmatama is all on a individual bases. We cannot judge someone if they are not doing what we are. As we may fail at any time and they may succeed at any time. I think it's better to simply keep your own Mann in check than judge what the next person is doing.

It is like the group of guys who were arguing, one side saying mool mantar completes at jap, while the other argued it completed at Nanak Hosi Bhi satch. Some one asked , you have been arguing for an hour now, which of you actually does any simran to Jap or to Nanak hosi bhi satch ? None spoke.

> agreed! All gurbani is Sargun roop of Akal purakh waheguru, one bani is no less or more to the next bani.

Okay, firstly, we will have to answer for every action we take, every action. All is being recorded as we speak. We have devices now that record our every move and we upload to the net. Those souls in Dhargah, are a thousand times wiser then those on earth, their devices are not physical but they record everything none the less. Yes, we will have to answer for our meat eating and sharaab drinking and leering and swearing and mouthing off. Also if animals suffer then we are all responsible. All that suffering gets distributed and we all get a share. Why are none of us happy any more? Why do we suffer from new and chronic illnesses? why are our relationships with those around us going down the drain? Loomk around you people bombing their own, atrocities , so much why? because we are all paying for our misdeeds here right now. And then we will be judged what is left over, and boy is there some left over! What ever we eat if it is has bad stuff in it, if the animal suffered then yes we will pay, we are paying. This jaggat is jallandha - on fire!

>> I agree, our actions are recorded by Chith and guphat, however on all our actions, not just meat eating...all issues which derive from the five vices which then will make the document on to which we will be judged.

Meat eaters are the same, overweight full or cholesterol, most meat eaters drink with big barrel tummies.

>> Disagree, a big generalisation their for a huge, massive number if people, however I can only talk for myself and I am none of the above mentioned.

When you become a soldier you take an oath to fight for your country. This oath is not new, this oath or similar type has been going on for time immemorial . This oath is sacred, in the olden times from Mahabharat , the fighting caste took it as a sign of honour and this is recognised in dhargah. You fight and you kill because that is your duty. As a soldier it is your duty to fight. Bhagwan Krishan Ji gives this lesson to Arjan in mid battle - it is your duty to fight and if necessary, to die in battle. You cannot influence decisions that politicians make, your duty is that when you are called to fight you fight.

>>> agree, the oath of a soldier has been taken since time, however I do not understand how you describe it as "sacred" as you yourself have stated that in essence, a soldier is just there to kill on order! So how can this based on man made political agenders and situations be "sacred" if it results inevitably in the bloodshed of soldiers and civilians over maya? How can you call this "sacred" and then slander the meat eater? Krishna counselled Arjan as he found it difficult to commit the ultimate act of what he was meant to do as a soldier, kill other human beings, this war was fought for again, power and rule? How is that "sacred" and justified? It is only the fauj of Akal purakh waheguru, the Khalsa fauj what does not fight for maya. The oath if the Khalsa is the only real "sacred" oath.

I support all my sikh brothers and sisters who wish to be vegetarian and vegan, however I don't appreciate then to be told I am commiting kurehat, as it is important for the vegetarian and vegan sikh to remember if the wish not to consume meat, then the question arises around the use of it's by products. As you stated, the slaughterer of the animal, the butcherer of the meat, the consumer of the meat will all have a percentage of bad karam on the death of this animal, however you forgot about the user of the by product! The tabla/nagara/sarangi master in the gurus divan, the Amrit Chak sister who plasters her face with animal fat (make up) over her lips and in her eyes, the person who has ill health and consumes medication which contains animal by products, the sikh who carries their Kirpan in a leather sheath.......the list goes on, lol! So do you think, as a vegetarian it is then ok to use the by product of an animal, because someone else had done the dirty work for you (the killing) and it's not your paap?

The sikh who performs jhatka and consumes the animal and uses all it's carcass within their own home is very different to the mass meat market around the world. These are two separate issues.

When you perform jhatka, the animal does not die. That's a very semetical viewpoint, the nirgun/Sargun roop of Akal purakh cannot die, the ruu of the animal simply moves on, the Mann leaves the tann, the tann merges back with the living body of another living tann as nourishment and the mann moves forward.

The statements you have made as fact can be questioned by sikh ithiaas, sikh granths and the Akal takhat maryada. If a sikh should not eat meat, then let's all go to the Akal takhat and get the rehat maryada mended so no one then has to question this practice.

I believe in one maryada for all, but have no problem with my vegetarian and vegan brothers and sisters. As one day we may have to stand on a battlefield and take up arms as once our shaheed Singh and singhnia have done and kill the opposing army, as the gurus Khalsa!

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When you eat meat you have interrupted the flow of karma of the animal. The killer, the skinner, the butcher, the chef and the eater all bear responsibility and will take on the karma of the animal. You will have to answer for your actions when you pass over to the other side, and all the animals you have eaten will demand justice !!!!

Sikhs of old were all vegies. The langar has always been veggie. This has nothing to do with some sections being veggie so the langar had to be veggie. It has to do with the fact that Gurus were vegetarian and so the langar was exclusively veggie. We follow Guru not manmat.

This is not the same as wering leather shoes etc, although it is advisable to not wear these items abd seek alternatives.

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If I was a sikh and a soldier serving for example within the British Armed Forces and I was serving in Afghanistan. If I was to kill another human within the grounds of my duty, why would be the result of my karma for killing another human being due to man made political situations?

I Look forward reading your reply!

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What on earth has happened 2 our panjab? Panjab has always been 1 of the safest places in india when in regards 2 rapes/crime etc. Im not sayin that there never was any crime/rape before, but there was never an epidemic of this stuff, of the like we r seeing nowadays. I dont wanna sound like im passin the buck here, but crime and criminality has rapidly shot up since the mass migration of biharis n other outsiders into panjab, since 2001-ish time. But also by the looks of the names in many reports, including the 1 above, its pretty clear its apnay sikhs who now seem to think this sort of stuff is ok, digraceful man. Those days of the defencless seeing a sardar/kaur on a bus n feeling safe ARE LONG GONE...LONG LONG GONE.

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This sort of attitude and criminality has always existed in all parts of India. Stop using the Bihari community as an escape goat in regards to their migration and rape/crime rate in the panjab. On what statistics have you based your opinion? Please provide the stats.

It is only due to the change in technology, now having the internet that we can so easily be connected to the news and events of the whole world, hence why we are aware of more issues occurring in India.

Sorry, i assumed u were english. Bubble = bubble bath = laugh, which is cockney (london) rhyming slang.

Well obviously drugs/alcohol/fake babas/badals/cancer etc r all much bigger issues than naked sadhus, but obviously if an issue pops up which needs 2 b dealt with, no matter how little/irrevelant, it will b dealt with, depending on that person n spur of the moment. The sikhs in this video r obviously OTT with the beating, but as i mentioned in my original post, i kinda still have no sympathy at same time with the sadhus nakedness.

Panjab/n.india will only get better when dharam has spread into these areas, oh n biharis thrown out....and i couldnt careless how discriminatory that sounds, coz i know ppl in panjab certainly dont want them there. U are right that the ppl in this video, shud really be dealing with issues more important. Btw, bhagat singh aint best example to use, he did after all shoot the wrong officer dead. shaheed Udham singhs shaheedi is more important n crucial in history than bhagat singhs, especially as he killed the actual perpertrator (michael o'dwyer).

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veer ji, after your comment about the Bihari community being thrown out of panjab, I have realised that there is no point in us debating on this issue as we will intellectually not get anywhere as within any supremacist, there is no room for reason of thought as they feel they are higher than someone else. Its the supremacy which fits a percentage of people who think their of a higher status than someone else. Equality fits all and is for everyone as within all dwells the sargun roop of akal purakh waheguru, whether their a naked sadhu or a Bihari.

Using shaheed Bhagat Singhs Shaheedi as an example can never be wrong. Shaheedi is Shaheedi in the sikh kaum. Dhan Dhan akali nihang shiri guru gobind singh demonstrated this when it was asked if the lifeless bodies of his biological sons should be covered out of respect. I'm sure you know his answer.

You stated that you have no sympathy for the naked sadhu sant, so this results in you justifying that an innocent man living within his dharma should be physically beaten. These so called Sikhs have just done what the moguls done, perpetuating their view onto someone else via violence. I hope you find sympathy for other people, as within other people is akal purakh and the equality of the garbless ultimate being, in which seva for the fellow person can be done in seva of akal purakh.

Also, I am British but not English, I'm from Shropshire and know very little on cockney slang, the most I know is off eastenders.

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Tell me ur havin a bubble? So something is part of ancient tradition, that means it must be given leeway, no matter how gandha? might aswel downplay uncle-niece marriages in south india aswel as acceptable, since it is old culture down there. Oh n why not bring back mass practice of sati all over india?

Totally agree, but at the same time, these pakhandis r govt protected. Ram rahim has had attempts on his life, but wat can u do wen he has z-list security n laal batthi on top of his car? Everytime sikhs have protested we get shot at! remember ludhiana?

i wudnt b suprised if these r govt sponsored sikhs who give punishments out to make sikhs look like aggressors. Just like wat happned at the akal takht about couple months ago, it turns out those sikhs fightin with swords were infact rss payed gundas.

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Veer ji, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "having a bubble"?

The issue here is the sadhu sant, not the practice of sati or any other ritual. As you have mentioned sati, it was carried out by the wife's of maharaja Ranjit Singh obviously on his funeral pyre.

Sikhi, the rehat maryada and the Khalsa has no geographical boundary. We are sovereigns of the guru within ourselves. The reason why I differ with you brother in opinion is because you do not deem this act as manmatt. Sikhi is for the sikh, parchar is done by the sikh to spread normal panth without force. Anywhere where one lifts his hand in force to an innocent is a crime, especially when done by a sikh.

In panjab or India, the problems what face our brothers and sisters are not naked sadhus, it's again pakhandi sant, drugs, alcohol, caste segregation, prostitution and the corrupt government. These people should be dealing with these problems in the panjab, not naked sadhus when your sisters are being raped by so called Sikhs.

Also, no matter how connected ram raheem is, or any other pakhandi baba I n India, if you really are set on making a change, the condo quench is insignificant. Let's remember Dhan Dhan shaheed Bhagat Singh and his action. His personal outcome was irrelevant to him.

So, what do you feel is more important, ram raheem raping our sisters, our brothers doing crack and becoming alcoholics, our elders been massacred in a governments act of genocide., gurdwareh were only certain castes are permitted entrance, child prostituition.....or the naked sadhu?

Indeed, i agree with wat u have written above. In my above posts, i havnt condoned the beating, coz i do condemn the beating, it is OTT. But on the otherhand, i also codemn the nakedness of these ppl. Tell me wud u want little kids seeing men walkin around with their meat n 2 veg hangin out?

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These so called Sikhs beating up innocent people with suffer punishments at the hands of dharam raj.

Dharma is sacred to all, in many forms, shapes, names and colours. This sadhu sant has done nothing wrong. He is living his life as many sadhu sant have done so for humdreds of years in India where their dharam and rites and rituals have been carried out for thousands of years. Who are these idiotic people to attempt to stop his freedom to practice his dharam?

The way you keep on asking how people would feel if their female relations would come across these agori sadhus is irrelevant, it's India and apart of its heritage. I wonder how our guru sahibs welcomed Dhan Dhan dhoti guru Nanak Devi ji mahrajs son, baba Sri chand? As he too was a sadhu sant?

Why these so called Sikhs don't go around and give a slap where it is really needed, like the numerous pakhandi sant who rape girls in the name of sikhi, I don't know? Instead beat up one sadhu sant and let a papi like ram rahim take centre stage?

Does it make sense to you, because it don't make sense to me!

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On a normal farm in the uk which has Sheep herds, you usually pay a sheep shearer who comes to your farm and shears your sheep. The sheep shearer is obviously very experiences in this field and uses a battery operated shearer. If you can do it yourself even better.

This idiots actions in the video clip is no reason for us to stop wearing wool, it's reasoning should be to hunt him down and prosecute him if he already has not been dealt with.

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ਨਰੂ ਮਰੈ ਨਰੁ ਕਾਮਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ॥

Naroo Marai Nar Kaam N Aavai ||

नरू मरै नरु कामि न आवै ॥

When a man dies, he is of no use to anyone.

2 ਗੋਂਡ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੮੭੦ ਪੰ. ੫

Raag Gond Bhagat Kabir Ang:870 Line: 5

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ਪਸੂ ਮਰੈ ਦਸ ਕਾਜ ਸਵਾਰੈ ॥੧॥

Pasoo Marai Dhas Kaaj Savaarai ||1||

पसू मरै दस काज सवारै ॥१॥

But when an animal dies, it is used in ten ways. ||1||

3 ਗੋਂਡ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੮੭੦ ਪੰ. ੫

Raag Gond Bhagat Kabir Ang:870 Line: 5

Guru Ka Singh is defined in the Sikh Rehat Maryada, the above lines from Gurbani should answer your questions. Also this thread is about consumption. Do you eat a tabla? Do you eat shoes? Do you eat belts? etc... please stick to the topic and provide a Shabad that tells us to consume a dead carcass.

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Thanks for the uploads of gurbani, so beautiful!

Veer ji, in your opinion, should we then as Sikhs wait for a animal to die a natural death for us to be able to use its carcass for by products?

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Please can someone quote a shabad telling to consume meat?

Very simple request. Just 1 specific shabad nothing else. There are shabads that tell us to consume Roti, Grains etc. But I can't find a shabad to tell us to consume meat.

As Sikhs we follow Guru Ji's shabad, therefore this is where we seek guidance to live our life.

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Please take up this issue with the akal takhat and The rehat maryada which is endorsed by them. If Sikhs are not meant to eat meat, the main maryada should be revised?

One maryada for all Sikhs if the guru, not numerous.

There is no god /waheguru so dont embark on a wild goose chase take charge og u r life u r responsible for u r situation duccess/failure no waheguru will comr for u moreover if we hsve to choose a tutor do we go for one having 2years of experience or one sith 40 years so choosr some older faith islam christ jew etc sikhism is a dera in front of these cpmplete anf old religions sikh dislike fake babas 10 gurus were also babas they also provided gaddi to their relations so why to hate people worshiping a human

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LOL.

Truth has no religion and is ageless. If you were told some truth today, or if that same truth was told before 2000 years ago, it makes no difference as it was true then, as it is true now. This truth takes many names, colours and forms. The religion given by Dhan Dhan guru Nanak dev ji is apart of that truth. If you don't believe in its truth, why come to a sikh forum lol, as you said in your opinion there is no waheguru and sikhi is a dera, why did you not choose a Jewish, Christian or Islamic website to voice your view f us Sikhs are insignificant in the hierarchy of world religions?

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thanks for taking me of the moderators list. It's great to see my post being submitted instantly and not having to wait.

Thankyou

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Lol same issue over here too! Some Sikhs use beautiful panjabi in that part of the ardas, but like you said its like its always rehearsed when the Giani does it because they do the same one numerous times maybe tayloring it to the specific ceremony, occasion or reason for the ardas

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I'm banned to, feels like an attempt to stop me using the forum. Please someone update me on this situation admit is truly ridiculous and irritating.

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How long am I to stay under moderation, I notice that castist remarks are still able to be posted, to which I take offence to. Yet when I reply back, my post is not permitted?

Some form of reply would be much appreciated, as this just seems as an attempt to get me off this site and basically stop contributing.

Good news, the target has been reached. I hope some of the people who've been moaning on here get in touch with Sangat TV and suggest how they can improve. I doubt if so many people would have turned upto the 1984 march in London this year without the TV stations making us aware of it - so don't understand why people here are saying they don't do anything positive. Now they can continue their good work and seva.

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please comment on your thoughts of the "matrimonial show" sangat TV. Is it gurmat?

She is just another muslim standing up for muslim issues.

Whereas our anti-sikh people in Punjab, india or British parliaments are standing up for their parties agenda's rather than for Sikh issues and our kaum.

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Atleast she can stand up for other Muslims from foriegn lands, look at us "Sikhs" and how we react to other Sikhs from parts of the world. She was probably at the height of her career earning a really good salary, but chose to quit over principal. If only us "Sikhs" took a leaf out of her book, maybe we could do better on issues of ekta.

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I'm not against sikh TV channels, I think sikhi parchar should be on a mass scale, reaching people like our elders who can't get to the gurdwara , reaching the youth who won't go to the gurdwara and reaching people who are already into sikhi.

It's a select few, some presenters what make mistakes and may in some way taint the hard work done, however I feel the sikh Chanel overall has done more good, than bad.

But, id prefer if all three channels merged into one and stuck to sikhi parchar. I don't see the point of three channels airing the shri rehras sahib ji da paath at the same time?

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Kabbadi is good, I have never played it myself but I think it's a good thing as it's a form of exercise which would keep a sikh fit and healthy.

The caste supremacy opinions continuously dropped over the commentators mic are not in any way good for sikhi or Kabbadi, once again it's overlooked.

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Drummer ji, I don't see it as "strange" - having a TV channel focusing on Sikhi is one of the most powerful ways to spread the message of our gurus and reach people better than watching mindless soaps and the rubbish on mainstream channels. having more than one channel gives more choice to people, after all could we manage with just one gurdwara?

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I commend any seva towards the panth, however I will not financially support a channel which airs shows based on caste, such as the sangat matrimonial show. This is anti sikh, anti gurmat and ridiculous having ritdhari presenters reading caste based marriage requests such as "Amritdhari Jatt ", lol.

Hope you see my point sis?

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I'm proud that baroness warsi has kept her morals and ethics rather than her job. I'm proud of her for what she has done and said in relation to the Israel and gaza conflict. This sister is an inspiration.

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These guys are even lower than prostitutes ...jitte paise milde othe matha tekkde han ... and they encourage our gullible kids that it's OK ...to do this and drink, and ogle women and trim gurroop ....ehejey nu mu kala karke kothe utthe sher di chakr kudinah chahida

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Also continuously promoting caste....another one to add on the list,

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What is the difference in Taksali?

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ANcient civilisations have depicted various species of dinosaurs within their art and story telling. At the level of our technology and science we are able to graft skin, muscle over skeletal bones and take a sketched glimpse at how they're have physically looked.

My question is, how did ancient man know? How were ancient civilisations able to depict dinosaurs as we physically depict them now?

Science and what governs science will inevitably allow mankind to know only which they feel needs to be known and nothing more.

Recently we discovered that life exist 2km below sea level where no light penetrates. Science before this point suggested no life what so ever existed at such a deep level. So, what else leeks beneath our darkest waters, of which we know not much, knowing more about space itself.

Extra terrestrial beings have had their part in human progression, maybe also the extinction of predatory dinosaurs which woul if caused a major threat to the human species becoming the GOP if the change. However, I do not believe all dinosaurs became extinct. Some cohabited earth with early man. The Neanderthal and homosapian are two very different beings, both in intellect and physicality. The Neanderthal was probably beaten back into tiny remote areas of earth many any years ago by the homosapian. However, I don't think there extinct, just evolved as humans have to take advantage of their remote surrounding in very small numbers. The mythical yeti could very well be a evolved homosapian.

Scientific evidence and evidence of the non scientific like the paranormal, supernatural and progression of ancient civilisations will always be hidden and rewritten. The end all and be all is yes, extra terrestrials have played a part within the progression of humanity but it all ends and starts from the creator, who simply watches this game. The "facts" that the original poster bases his opinion on which science provides is very weak, you only have to look at ancient history and the development of the human race within ancient civilisations and also the ancient alien theory. It all makes much more sense than the sectarianism of the abrahic religions which have dominated the world. Science cannot explain many events and achievements made by our ancestors. So, just have faith in akal purakh waheguru, the creator of all creation, the initial start from where the god gene is manifest.

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My family have been Sikhs since Dhan Dhan shiri guru Nanak dev ji mahrajs second udhasi to Sri Lanka in the year samvat 1574 (1517 AD).

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Not all Sikhs turned their back on sikhi by cutting their Kesh and removing their dastar to gain a job and "integrate". Sikhi was more important. My maternal and paternal grandfathers turned to door to door sales, keeping their dignity in their dharam. They held onto sikhi when it was hard both physically and spiritually. It's easy for our generation now, nobody is gona tell us to cut our hair, we are able to wear a Kirpan in public legally, drive motorbikes with no helmet whilst wearing a dastar and visit our guru in gurdware which where funded and established by these Sikhs during the very time, many so called Sikhs in the pursuit of a better standard of life, gave up their religion. Now their 3rd generation are financially secure and we'll educated, they have refound their belief. Better later than never hey!