sikhiseeker
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I have already addressed this invalid point you made in a prevoius post. Yet you have not addressed what I have said by quoting Chandi Di Vaar the very Bani we speak of.
Why do you call Durga as Durga mata?
WJKK WJKF
Sorry for such a late reply.
Dear brother, my opinion is my opinion and if you feel it is invalid that is your opinion. To address your point which you used quotes from the bani in discussion, I feel the bani clearly states and validates the role in which Durga mata acted as in the warrior spirit and again as for my previous quotes in the topic, worship and praise are two very different things. My opinion is exactly alongside my brother N3OSINGH on this one.
In regards to the topic, I feel were are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
Also the reason to why I refer to the Durga as Durga mata, is the same reason why I call any other elderly female mata and any other female nearer my age, bhen ji, it derives from the respect I hold for Durga Mata, just like how I have respect and praise the actions of the late ( and nearly forgotten) Mother Teresa.
WJKK WJKF
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Exactly, this is key point praising and worshipping are two very different things. I tried to highlight similiar point in other thread of aad shakti last year.
Sri guru gobind singh ji in jaap sahib and akaal ustat doing namaskar to whole creation as creator and creation are not seperate, creator is infused in creation..
Sri guru gobind singh ji praising sargun parkriti which is functioning because of shakti/force/energy-aad shakti of akaal purkh/chaitan-consciouness of akaal purkh behind that creation.
ਜਲੇ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਥਲੇ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਉਰੇ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਬਨੇ ਹਰੀ ॥੧॥੫੧॥
जले हरी ॥ थले हरी ॥ उरे हरी ॥ बने हरी ॥१॥५१॥
The Lord is in water. The Lord is on land. The Lord is in the heart. The Lord is in the forests.1.51.
ਗਿਰੇ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਗੁਫੇ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਛਿਤੇ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਨਭੇ ਹਰੀ ॥੨॥੫੨॥
गिरे हरी ॥ गुफे हरी ॥ छिते हरी ॥ नभे हरी ॥२॥५२॥
The Lord is in he mountains. The Lord is in the cave. The Lord is in he earth. The Lord is in the sky. 2.52.
ਈਹਾਂ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਉਹਾਂ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਜਿਮੀ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਜਮਾ ਹਰੀ ॥੩॥੫੩॥
ईहां हरी ॥ उहां हरी ॥ जिमी हरी ॥ जमा हरी ॥३॥५३॥
The Lord is in here. The Lord is there. The Lord is in the earth. The Lord is in the sky. 3.53.
ਅਲੇਖ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਅਭੇਖ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਅਦੋਖ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਅਦ੍ਵੈਖ ਹਰੀ ॥੪॥੫੪॥
अलेख हरी ॥ अभेख हरी ॥ अदोख हरी ॥ अद्वैख हरी ॥४॥५४॥
The Lord is Accountless. The Lord is guiseless. The Lord is blemishless. The Lord is sans duality.4.54.
ਅਕਾਲ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਅਪਾਲ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਅਛੇਦ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਅਭੇਦ ਹਹੀ ॥੫॥੫੫॥
अकाल हरी ॥ अपाल हरी ॥ अछेद हरी ॥ अभेद हही ॥५॥५५॥
The Lord is non-temporal. The Lord cannot be reated. The Lord is Indestructible. The Lord`s secrets cannot be known. 5.55.
We all know guru maharaj isn't worshipping jale (water) or thale (earth) but praising hari behind creation (creator is infused in creation-karta purkh). Key point here is in sikhi you cannot remove creator (kartapurkh) from its creation..!!
Not sure why sikhs get so insecure and paranoid where gurbani is praising akaal purkh manifestation..
WJKK WJKF
Dear sikha,
I agree with you 100% and admire your writing skills of how you explain something so clearly. May waheguru bless you with more gian as you have the gift of explanation in such a beautiful clear manner which will help so many people like me who have questions which need answering. I enjoy reading many of your posts.
WJKK WJKF
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WJKK WJKF,
I think what has been lost in this topic is worship and praising are two very different things. I believe that the raw power of Durga mata is always in support of the khalsa whenever it is needed, waheguru is the viewer to whatever is being played out and the creator of both sukh and right, there always has to be to opposing sides for warfare, but both are the creation of waheguru. The worship of anyone other than waheguru is condemned, however praise of ones actions are not, whatever form of creation being human or another extra terrestrial race. It is evident in both gurbani and Sri Dasam Granth, praise and critism are given to the devte and devia, as again they had imperfections. The analogies of the devia being the sweepers of waheguru demonstrate that such a high knowledgeable creation of waheguru, with much more intellect than ours is simply compared to a humble sweeper of waheguru. It is to demonstrate the greatness of the almighty in contrast to something which is much more greater than us. It is only a gurmukh who is void of the normal process after death set by the laws of dharma, hence why dharam raj and his jam dhoot have no jurisdiction over a true gurmukh.
WJKK WJKF
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The problem with a punjabi wedding is that two families get married and not just two individuals.
You find this is the reason it's best to marry someone in your own branding because of customs and rituals. You know all this but like to make a scene of the caste system.
The caste system today is different to the one in the gurus days where people judged you on the level of humanity, now it's just rehni behni. I feel it's ok to say no to a certain set of people because they live different. People have different standards and morals some care more and some don't care at all, and this is what people are looking for not that you was a farmer or someone who made dishes.
Even satguru amardass ji asked the caste of bhai jheta who later became satguru raamdass ji, satguru ramdaas ji also replied by stating his caste.
Get over it.
WJKK WJKF
Dear brother,
I totally disagree with your opinion. It is not a matter of "getting over it" as it affects our Nirmal panth. The notion of marrying within your own "branding" is mannmatt, not gurmat. Gurmat teaches no caste, your customs and rituals should be based on the foundation of the khalsa and gurmat, not panjabi custom and rituals. To say you believe in caste simply means you do not believe in our guru and their shabad, rather you believe in the Brahman hierarchy of caste.
The way one's character is shaped is affected in which Region they live, agreed! But if there is one foundation to which one makes decisions of life by, meaning the Shiri Guru Granth Sahib ji, rituals, cultures and traditions mean nout.
It is simply preserving the so called caste bloodlines by marrying within castes
WJKK WJKF
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Before this goes completely side ways. Let's start at the beginning of Chandi di Vaar. Simple question. Why did Vaheguru cause the demons to take over the kingdom of devta? Here is the answer.
ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ਉਤਾਰਨ ਦੇਵਤਿਆਂ ਮਹਿਖਾਸੁਰ ਸੁੰਭ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
अभिमानु उतारन देवतिआं महिखासुर सु्मभ उपाइआ ॥
Mahishasura and Sumbh were created for removing the pride of the gods (Indra, Krishna, Rama, etc).
These devta were full of ego and thought to themselves to be the Supreme Being (no one is greater than us). Before this line Guru Sahib says these devta do not understand Vaheguru. Here it is
ਬਡੇ ਬਡੇ ਮੁਨਿ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਕਈ ਜੁਗ ਤਿਨੀ ਤਨੁ ਤਾਇਆ ॥
बडे बडे मुनि देवते कई जुग तिनी तनु ताइआ ॥
The great sages and gods, even practising great austerities for several ages;
ਕਿਨੀ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੨॥
किनी तेरा अंतु न पाइआ ॥२॥
None could know Thy end.2.
Those that say Guru Sahib is praising Durga need to focus on these lines where Guru Sahib says Krishna and Rama received the power from Vaheguru. The praise goes directly to the one that gave the power not the puppets (devta).
ਤੈ ਹੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੈ ਦੈਤਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥
तै ही दुरगा साजि कै दैता दा नासु कराइआ ॥
O Lord! By creating Durga, Thou hast caused the destruction of demons.
ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਰਾਮ ਲੈ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਣਾ ਦਹਸਿਰੁ ਘਾਇਆ ॥
तैथों ही बलु राम लै नाल बाणा दहसिरु घाइआ ॥
Rama received power from Thee and he killed Ravana with arrows.
ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ ਕੰਸੁ ਕੇਸੀ ਪਕੜਿ ਗਿਰਾਇਆ ॥
तैथों ही बलु क्रिसन लै कंसु केसी पकड़ि गिराइआ ॥
Krishna received power from Thee and he threw down Kansa by catching his hair.
ਬਡੇ ਬਡੇ ਮੁਨਿ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਕਈ ਜੁਗ ਤਿਨੀ ਤਨੁ ਤਾਇਆ ॥
बडे बडे मुनि देवते कई जुग तिनी तनु ताइआ ॥
The great sages and gods, even practising great austerities for several ages;
ਕਿਨੀ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੨॥
किनी तेरा अंतु न पाइआ ॥२॥
None could know Thy end.2.
I have barely walked into Chandi di Vaar and there are clear instructions not to praise these devta/devis. Durga was created to destroy the demons, but what did Durga do. She also fell victim to pride like here counter part Devta (Krishna, Rama). Let's listen
ਪਉੜੀ ॥
पउड़ी ॥
PAURI
ਦੁਰਗਾ ਬੈਣ ਸੁਣੰਦੀ ਹੱਸੀ ਹੜਹੜਾਇ ॥
दुरगा बैण सुणंदी ह्सी हड़हड़ाइ ॥
Listening to these words (of Indra), Durga laughed heartily.
ਓਹੀ ਸੀਹੁ ਮੰਗਾਇਆ ਰਾਕਸ ਭਖਣਾ ॥
ओही सीहु मंगाइआ राकस भखणा ॥
She sent for that lion, who was she devourer of demons.
ਚਿੰਤਾ ਕਰਹੁ ਨ ਕਾਈ ਦੇਵਾ ਨੂੰ ਆਖਿਆ ॥
चिंता करहु न काई देवा नूं आखिआ ॥
She said to gods, "Do not worry mother any more.
ਰੋਹ ਹੋਈ ਮਹਾ ਮਾਈ ਰਾਕਸਿ ਮਾਰਣੇ ॥੫॥
रोह होई महा माई राकसि मारणे ॥५॥
For killing the demons, the great mother exhibited great fury.5.
Durga laughed in pride saying to Indra I will kill the demons. This is a show of pride no better than Krishna and Rama exihibited. Read Bachittar Natak and Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji says Vaheguru sent me into this world and I could not achieve anything without Vaheguru's blessing. Durga did not realize she is just another pond like Krishna in this chess match. After the above pauri the battle between the demons and Durga begins. Why would Durga praise herself before starting the battle? She is part of creation and not the GREAT MOTHER (CREATOR).
One of the last lines of Chandi di Vaar also makes it clear that Durga is not the mother, but the he who created her is the great mother.
ਚਉਦਹ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਛਾਇਆ ਜਸੁ ਜਗਮਾਤ ਦਾ ॥
चउदह लोकां छाइआ जसु जगमात दा ॥
The praise of the mother of the universe spread over all the fourteen worlds.
At the end of the war Indra was crowned again as the king. No praise was given to Durga for her so called warrior skills. It was a drama staged by Vaheguru to show the devta and devis that you are not in charge here, I am.
WJKK WJKF
What is evident is the warrior skill base given to Durga mata by Akal Purakh, hence why this entity was able to defeat the other force being demons created by waheguru again, both these creations are from the basis matter of the god partical.
Just how we as sikhs can credit the khalsa fauj with praise of their achievement in and out of battle, is the very same way that we can praise the Durga mata for her undeniable warrior spirit and skill. This gian and shakti for both the khalsa and Durga mata only capable due to Akal Purakh waheguru, the same also for the demons.
Just because you praise someone or something on the boundaries of sikhi is not blasphemy in a sense. I admire the devotion of the prophet Abraham, this does not make me a member of the Abrahamic faith, the very fact that Durga mata fought against demon spirits with whatever advanced weaponry calls for praise of her actions. They deserve our namashakaar and respect for the era in which this occurred within Akal purakhs "theatre" as do the khalsa and many other people around the world like the soldiers who gave their life's in ww2.
WJKK WJKF
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Why would Guru Sahib praise Durga the goddess?
WJKK WJKF
Shiri Guru Gobind Singh ji is and was an unstoppable sant Siphai. In the Zafarnama guru sahib "praises" the soldiers who fought with valour on the battlefield, these were human kind. Why wouldn't guru sahib have praise then for Durga mata? The entity who embodies femininity and the very embodiment of the Siphai created to represent Akal purakhs army against injustice since ancient times. The guru Sahibi never said that this era or history never occurred. However refer back to this ancient time, displaying the greatness and perfectness of Akal Purakh in contrast to the imperfections and ideals of these beings such as Indira. These beings are not human, rather extra terrestrial beings, obviously their knowledge and understanding far exceeds ours, however they embody the same imperfections and weaknesses in character what us humans have, the only perfect being is Akal Purakh, waheguru the created of all.
I do not understand why people think sikhi would never give praise to devte and devia? Why not? If it is such a misconception, gurbani and sikh text would of refrained from the references of the above sort, like using shiva in "deh shiva bar mohe", why not just use the word waheguru?
The devte and devia are of a higher intelligence and of a different creation to that of man kind. The difference is they are a extra terrestrial race, which have governed over this world and many others. There are many other creation like this which we have no knowledge of as there are many galaxies and universes which jap Naam. The main point is, there is only one perfect being which is the creator. Prayer should be connected through your atma via this body of human kind to waheguru. This extra terrestrial race has the power to intervene within people's life's, this has been the case from the very time of creation of us on this dwelling, Earth. They set many rules to man kind in many different forms and names. Some very wrong and some right. Some of these beings are of a great nature and some are not. The message of Guru nanaks Nirmal panth was to believe in the one god- meaning these are not gods or goddesses. We have put them on that level through our misunderstanding.
WJKK WJKF
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If you are so aware of nothing dies or things are immortal would you jhakta you're own family. As guru Nanak dais "je Sakta skate to mare at man ros an Hoi If you are such a sikh may be try to fight a lion or tiger by bare hands. Stop justifying your oppression on innocent animals like Muslims and Jews like halal and kosher killing.
WJKK WJKF
I am nothing or nobody, I have little knowledge and im on this site to advance my knowledge through conversation via brothers and sisters as yourself. This is not an issue of just the consumption meat as sikhsangat.com had a outright no on the issue. It is more the use of animals if one has not done the killing, how does then that become justified?
To fight a Lion or tiger with my bare hands proves no point and is kind of irrelevant, also I would most probably be killed and eaten lol and as I still battle with the five vices, end up in the cycle of reincarnation.
Also, I am not a Muslim or Jew, I am not sacrificing a animal to waheguru which serves no point, I am performing jhatkaa to a) consume its flesh b) practice by weaponry c) understand and deal with the emotion d) use it's carcass. Sacrificing the life if an animal and killing an animal to eat are two very different things.
If vegetarianism goes so far for karmic action and print, also for the welfare of another soul, then we should question our use on animal by products like leather, make-up and the skin on our tabla in the gurdwara, also medication tested on innocent animals. The SGPC rehat maryada should also be amended by the Akal takhat, as this maryada is the most utilised. I know the other issues surrounding the other rehatmaryade being Puratan or whatever in any case, this is the most widely used rehat maryada.
Again, I stress my point that a soldier needs to know how to use weaponry in a just manner and then deal with the emotion of having to kill, whether it be an animal for food and it's carcass, an animal out of compassion if it is injured or even a fellow human being. We "put down" many animals in the uk out of compassion. Should we not just then allow the cycle of life to play out its course?
If you would like to continue conversing views with me personally, please send me a message via my profile as I do not want to continue discussing this here, as we have taken the thread to another angle of meat, which we can both do a search and get many other opinions as adviced always by the Sewa moderators on this site.
So sorry everyone for taken the post elsewhere, especially to the original post maker.
Thanks
WJKK WJKF
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You are safely hiding out in a rural area in UK and performing jhakta waiting for some opportunity to spring into action when time is right for what???
To me Sikhi is about one conscious, things only appear separate which is part of the illusion (read some quantum physics) By killing something you are essentially killing a part of yourself or GOD. There are times when killing a few save millions which is shown by the Gurus. It's about free will of all beings. Don't play GOD by destroying life if you can't create, byrevoking someone's free will volunteerly, you just collect karmas.
WJKK WJKF
I am not hiding in a forest hiding waiting for something to happen lol, however I feel I have the duty to prepare myself if anything should, as should all sikhs as per hukam of Shiri guru gobind Singh, male and female alike as khalsa is non discriminative. A soldier of any army, has to have some form of emotional and physical training. Also weapon training. How do you suppose one is granted the term soldier? Speak to any army official and ask them about the training one has to undertake.
As you rightly stated, the guru sahib and Singh/Kaur sahib did take others life's in battle. But it's a loss of life, irrelevant on whatever side, as bhai khanaiya ji understood. By the very act of killing in battle is as you stated, killing apart of yourself or waheguru whether it's one life or a thousand, or one life to save a thousand, one still has to be killed.
My point is waheguru is within all matter, the earth is a living being which waheguru is the god partical as is the whole universe. The jhatkaa of an animal means the soul of tht being moves on, as does the soul of vegetation and as of a human being, however killing any of the four groups which can take birth, never ever can result in the killing of waheguru, as waheguru is unborn and cannot be destroyed.
As the human race we play waheguru in many aspects of our life, from pesticides on our crops to medication tested on animals to the decision of war result in innocent life's being killed. However waheguru cannot be performed by us, as we are simply a performance for waheguru.
WJKK WJKF
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IMO if the Guru's were here on the Earth plane, with It being a time where more non-Meat foods are so readily available, they would be Vegans. Not just Vegetarian's but Vegan. Foods get shipped now, there are many foods people haven't even heard of, there are Vegan alternatives let alone Vegetarian, also many Vegetarian only restaurants.
Don't know how anyone can eat Meat today. Not just ''Sikhs''.
WJKK WJKF
Dear brother,
The guru sahib are on the earth with in the form of guru Granth and guru panth. The khalsa, guru nanak patshahs faujh is made up of sant Siphai, a soldier protects against injustice of any kind, which also means taking up arms as the last resort. That means, the art of weaponry must be practised by the khalsa. The khalsa is made up of two components, Bhagti and Shakti, they are both 50% making a 100% sant Siphai. It is a credit to us as sikhs that many of us have now progressed our Bhagti as is evident on this website as there are many learned sikhs, however how many of us know how to use a gun, a bow and arrow, a sword or a spear? Do we know at what force a sword should be struck for the purpose of decapatation? I live in a rural area of the uk. I am proud to say that I can jhatkaa a animal and use every part of it's carcass. This knowledge has been passed down from my grandfather to all our families as the use of a sword in defense can arise when you never expected, like how my grandparents had to defend themselves in 1947, Lahore and Sialkot. It is a good knowledge base if ever needed.
I have felt the emotion of when death approaches an animal by a sword, this builds the understanding of what death is at your own hands. It demonstrates the emotion to what one has to endure in battle.
Many people do not agree with my opinion, however I am ready to protect anyone if the time comes. The animal which are jhatkaad are treated with the upmost compassion, as are all the other animals which are not.
WJKK WJKF
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Diary itself is an extremely cruel practice.....
but you guys here acting like brahmins (whose faith is violated by inadvertently ingesting meat)....without rationaly and or/compassionately thinking
WJKK WJKF
Well said, it's like the prime goal of everyone at present is to become vegetarian.
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WJKK WJKF
The gurdware and sadh sangat should just stick to simple food like dhal dhai, and roti. Simple as, it's only due to us, that we feel the need to have "pizza" for langar and "cookies". How ridiculous!
I think the meat issue has actually taken over the principal of eat what you can, not on the basis of the craving of your tongue as to crave for chicken and to crave for a parauntha is the same emotion.
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WJKK WJKF,
I believe bhaugati/Durga maa is a primal being, meaning one of waheguru's very first manifestations of a highly knowledgeable and strong entity. The entity instills and defines the very first foundation of a warrior spirit of waheguru, hence why bhaugati, Durga maa and the sword are all the same. Similarly As was the first guru sahib, throughout to the last living guru sahib, then the Shiri Guru Granth Sahib ji and the khalsa (Guru Granth Guru Panth) at the same time. It is from this point that the ideology of waheguru's warrior begun and now the khalsa is the army of waheguru, resonating that very first primal warrior spirit, the protector of all, the khalsa.
WJKK WJKF
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the mamla is too much of a garhbar now !
LOL!!! Funny guy man!
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These are Naqshbandi Sufis. Their leader Sheikh Ahmad Sirhindi who these Naqshbandis regard as the greatest Sufi Saint ever was a fanatic and the main perpetrator behind Sri Guru Arjun Dev Jee's Shaheedi because he feared the spread of Sikhi all over North India. The biggest villain in India's history, Aurangzeb who persecuted Guru Jee's family and the Sikhs was also a Naqshbandi Sufi and received spiritual training under Sheikh Sirhindi's son who guided Aurangzeb to persecute Sikhs, Hindus and Shias.
Just thought I should post about their disgraceful ithihas before we get too impressed by these so called peaceful naqshbandi sufis. Qadari Sufis are good, they have been our friends and allies. Mian Mir Jee was also a Qadiri Sufi. And Mian Mir Jee did all he could to oppose Sheikh Sirhindi and his fanatic evil sect.
WJKK WJKF,
Thanks for the insight, it's not this sect what's impressive, just some truths Sufism holds. But again, thanks for the backdrop of that group.
WJKK WJKF
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WJKK WJKF
Great analysis, I find it so amazing how within our body we can simply disconnect from the physical matter. I think this is how one is able to then see within the different realms of waheguru's creation and the different beings within those realms. It gives the person the use of ridh/sidh and the weaker character then may become distant from waheguru and more detached, as how you stated. The stronger character overlook the realms and hear the unstruck sound and light of the almighty creator, waheguru.
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- Popular Post
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Does anyone actually take notice of these guys? Why are amritdharis listening to these clowns. Nothing compares to Kirtan!!
WJKK WJKF
I personally don't think its about whether amritdhari sikh listen to the rubbish people like jazzy b churns out, however unfortunately the youth do listen to these people. The amritdhari is already on the right path however our youth is being influenced by what these so called role models are portraying. These people associate sikhi with their vulgar life styles promoting manmatt. Every attempt should be made to put a stop to the association of sikhi with these people in regards to their music videos and material. As rightly stated by my brother TURBANGUYZ, the whole kissing the gold khanda is ridiculous in a backdrop if a club, scantly glad sisters and alcohol?
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WJKK WJKF
Sikhi and panjabi culture are two very different things. As from previous threads, music and lyrics like this are simply in supply of demand. The problem should be when this crosses with sikhi and the image of sikhi, also as SINGH4PEACE stated elsewhere a solution should be devised to highlight and stop any such association with sikhi from an international stance, like maybe the uk sangat asking the sikh council to draw up a letter of concern to the Akal takhat in regards to the music industry associating sikhi with the point sant ranjit Singh stated and also their high profile support, also Alcohol, clubs and obviously caste. Too many a time have I seen the khanda and Kara brandished in such videos. Where the khanda adorned the nishaan sahib, it now adorns arms holding a glass of whiskey?
WJKK WJKF
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WJKK WJKF
Dear brother, just watched a minute or two of the first video and it seems really interesting, I will have to watch all of them when I get a chance. I have always been interested behind the concept of the swirling dervish, I have wondered if its similar to how people who say they are possessed spiritually also swirl their heads in a circular fashion, I have always wondered why, I wonder if there's any connection?
Thanks for the great uploads!
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I applaud the actions of Sant Ranjit Singh.
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Sure character of child is more important then caste, but unfortunately caste still plays a part in traits of both the child and his / her family.
If everyone followed gurmat and were gurmukh there would be no caste or caste traits, but this is not reality at present.
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Exactly, alittle like the climate change scenario where if one person switches off the light when not in use, there is little after affect however if everyone switched off the light bulb when they don't need it, there would be a huge difference. We as sikhs need to recognise that caste is the biggest problem in sikhi today, after that we should not then do nothing and carrying on wedding our children within castes, the war on caste should be taken place on an individual basis, alongside gurmat then barriers will break down.
The reality at present is we all do parchar and preach about gurmat, but on this one topic we allow a sympathy as we still hold pride in our caste, hence why theirs differences within sikhs, "they do this, we don't do that" ideology leading to as you stated "Sure character of child is more important then caste, but unfortunately caste still plays a part in traits of both the child and his / her family". As a parent caste should not be preached to a child, gurmat and sikhi should, if we all did this then there would be no difference, but due to caste supremacy, it is preaced and differences are born at a young age. So it stems down to this point, not different characteristics of different castes, but caste supremacy.
We harbour many excuses bout anti gurmat opinions on caste. When are we just gona say its wrong, it's against Guru Nanak ji's Khalsa and we are gona change it? We are the next generation, the change is applicable in our hands if we want it. There are many differences within us, yet their is one common thing which such neutralise all these differences as we all claim Shiri Guru Granth Sahib ji Mahraj as our guru, shouldn't we then listen?
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Dear _Confused_,
just remeber, you are not the body, your true essence is the soul. the washing practices you mention, I do not how or when, but these rituals have been introduced and mixed up with our Gurmat, by the weak manmukhs, whether consciously or unconsciously.
Humans have the ability to imbibe or copy what they see or hear others do.
And the washings you say, are a part and parcel of other religions, which I do not want to mention, so that nobody feels hurt, but we know which of them are....
So, do not get confused, and do your spiritual practices, with your mind, with your soul.
Because it is the dirty mind which has to be purified, with the soap of Nam, and it is the soul which has to merge in Him.
Wahiguru´s devotion is simple and easy for anybody. He does not ask us for anything, but to give Him our heart.
And if we do so, He will fill it with His Daya Meher, with His mercy and love, not only that, but He himself will come and sit within our hearts.
So simple, no?
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Beautifully written post and I totally agree with your view.
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Dear sikha,
When I do my Paath I generally wash my face and hands before I start. I also get tongue tied when doing the Paath but I resay what I said and then move on and I find it helps you to memorise the mistake and correct it the next time.
I'm not an expert and I don't know much lol, but I feel that if you have the opportunity to wash your body before you start Paath, it's fine. If not, it's also fine. I once heard in katha that when one has dirty hands they wash them in water, when ones clothes become dirty they are also able to be cleaned but when ones soul is dirty and blemished, water cannot clean and remove the blemish. The cleanser is naam, wahegurus gurbani via the 10 Shri guru sahibs and the Shiri Guru Granth Sahib ji. So when you do your Paath, think that you are cleansing your whole body, your mind and your soul.
Keep strong and use sikhi to weaken your OCD tendancy, treat it as a category within the 5 vices which we must try and beat.
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I agree there shouldn't be any castes, but they exist.
I don't necessarily think one caste is superior to another, but people who belong to certain castes often have certain habitats / characteristics. So when looking at marriage compatibility, there are issues which would be naive to ignore.
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I understand your point, however when parents are looking for a engagement for their children a match should be made based on the characteristics of their child, not the characteristic of their caste. The main issue which is unfortunately ignored by our naive outlook is we simply ignore gurmat,
If we all followed gurmat and blindly follow our caste, there would be more common characteristics between sikhs than differences. So it basically goes back to us believing in caste and not gurmat.
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Also, what jatt are we talking about, the"jatt" farmer, the "jatt" caste or the "jatt" creed. I should at this point add in "jatt" sikh, but this does not exist in sikhi.
Topics like these bring out the supporters of caste, as they still see pride in thier caste amrit dhari or non amrit dhari. Then in other posts they will try and give opinions based on gurmat. If only they stuck to their guns on this one too!
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Need Motivation To Do Naam Simran
in WHAT'S HAPPENING?
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Dear veer ji,
Why don't you start to sing the gurus bani using a harmonium, participating in Kirtan whilst at home or at the gurdwara, Kirtan is a beautiful way to remember waheguru in his praise, this is also Naam Japan as the gurbani is the the gur mantra and the Truth of the Naam of the Akal Purakh waheguru.
I leave you with one of my favourite shabads, beautifully recited by bhai satvinder Singh ji and bhai harjinder Singh ji Delhi wale, close your eyes and simply just listen dear brother....hope it helps!
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