sikhiseeker
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Ok here is the snippet of conversation I had with the guy discussing compassionate eating and sikhi (vegan topic) but he pointed out these facts after I pointed out that the current list of commandments stated thou shalt not kill without specifying what or whom :
" Well, that's an extremely truncated version found in The Bible and the Torah. However, the original wording of these Commandments was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and they are pretty darn specific:
12 Commandments after the Spirit - Source: Dead Sea Scrolls:
And Jesus said unto them, Behold a new law I give unto you which is not new
but old. Even as Moses gave the Ten Commandments to Israel after the flesh, so
also I give unto you the Twelve for the Kingdom of Israel after the Spirit.
1. Ye shall not take away the life of any creature for your pleasure, nor for
your profit, nor yet torment it.
2. Ye shall not steal the goods of any, nor gather lands and riches to
yourselves beyond your need or use.
3. Ye shall not eat the flesh, nor drink the blood of any slaughtered creature,
nor yet any thing which brings disorder to your health or senses.
4. Ye shall not make impure marriages, where love and health are not, nor yet
corrupt yourselves, or any creature made pure by the Holy.
5. Ye shall not bear false witness against any nor willfully deceive any by a
lie to hurt them.
6. Ye shall not do unto others, as ye would not that others should do unto you.
7. Ye shall worship One Eternal, the Father-Mother in Heaven, of Whom are all
things, and reverence the Holy Name.
8. Ye shall revere your fathers and your mothers on earth, whose care is for
you, and all the Teachers of Righteousness.
9. Ye shall cherish and protect the weak, and those who are oppressed, and all
creatures that suffer wrong.
10. Ye shall work with your hands the things that are good and seemly; so shalt
ye eat the fruits of the earth and live long in the land.
11. Ye shall purify yourselves daily and rest the Seventh Day from labor,
keeping holy the Sabbaths and the Festival of your God.
12: Ye shall do unto others as ye would that others should do unto you.* [aka The Golden Rule]?You certainly have a great outlook & mindset!
Now here, also from the Dead Sea Scrolls, are the original COMPLETE wording of the 10 Commandments "after the flesh" given by Moses (notice they are quite a bit different than the watered-down versions taught today -- and funny, nowhere in there do I see anything like "God Hates Fags" or "If you're Not a Christian You'll Go to Hell Forever):
1. Thou shalt not take the life from any living thing.
2. Thou shalt not debase Love.
3. Thou shalt not trade thy Soul for the riches of the world.
4. Thou shalt honor thy Mother Earth and thy Heavenly Father.
5. Thou shalt not be a false witness of the Law, to use it against thy brother.
6. Thou shalt have no false Laws before God.
7. Thou shalt not steal.
8. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's possessions.
9. Thou shalt not call upon the name of God with insincerity.
10. Thou shalt keep the seventh day Sabbath holy.
?
"
so it is CLEAR that christians of Christ should not criticise other faiths or teachers of righteousness, that diet should be dayvaan, no sacrifices are acceptable , Akal Purakh is neither sex and both the only one to be worshipped, the name is reverend.
The point is the gnosis has been removed from the standard understanding of Christianity and yet that is what Jesus preached foremost .
WJKK WJKF
Interesting post, but I wanted the original reference point to this information. I have done a quick search on google but not much luck.
What was the book called you read and do you know a a website or something what I can read to look into the claims of these 12 commandments.
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I read a book , sorry a bit old style I know ... a friend did send the new ten comandments as given in Full I'll post that and try to find the other stuff on line
WJKK WJKF
Were the "new" Ten Commandments taken from the dead sea scrolls? What was the book called please?
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the Dead Sea Scrolls which was a recent to his life copy of the bible teachings teaches many things : lakh chaurasi (reincarnation), daya in diet (no maas, no macchi, no eggs , no ritual slaughters just the fruit of the trees and plants and the herbs and plants of the field) , naam japna, naam vicharna, watches of the day and night including the power of doing battles at amritvela against the negatives. Jesus actually referred to himself as Akal Purakh's servant or Das and taught only Akal Purakh is worthy of praise worship. Peter and the Romans really did a number on his teachings .
WJKK WJKF
Can you please provide me with links to the tenants you say were written in the Dead Sea scrolls. Thanks
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VJKK VJKF
Isnt ahimsa part of Sikh history? Or is it not because it is something you do not support? Har har.
WJKK WJKF
What I don't understand is why you have less ahinsa for people within situations out of their control and due to their diet in that situation, you think they are nasthik?
This then highlights that you assume you are "better" than them or me because you are vegan.
You sound exactly like the pandits Guru Nanak talks about.
You do not understand what food is.
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VJKK VJKF
Isnt ahimsa part of Sikh history? Or is it not because it is something you do not support? Har har.
You never answered my question yet you choose to question me? Of course I believe in respect of all creation, but I'm not a Jain or Buddhist, I'm not gona start brushing the floor before I walk or covering my mouth incase I inhale a small fly.
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That isn't Gurbani, we only believe in Gurbani. No reason is good enough to eat meat, since we support ahinsa to the innocent.
WJKK WJKF
LOL! It's an account of history from a person who was there at that specific time from a non bias source.
How can you debunk history?
Obviously this is not gurbani. That's not the point. You choose to debunk this account of history because it highlights something YOU don't agree with.
So do you not read no sikh history because it doesn't concern you?
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VJKK VJKF
My ahankar has nothing to do with this debate, it is truly surprising how someone can sense ahankar just by reading something. I'm not judging anyone singularly, I am just telling what the views are based on Gurmat. If someone mistakes that for ahankar, then hopefully they realize that it is not ahankar. If someone told me to eat meat or die, I'd rather die than to eat meat. What can a meat eating human understand when their minds are infused with tamas guni thoughts (since that is the reward of eating tamas guni foods). It does not matter if you have stated that meat costs 100 rupees, I was saying that for general knowledge, so it makes no sense for someone to say a bikhari would eat meat because it is cheap. Clearly anyone who thinks living while turning their backs on Hari is a nastik. I would rather die today if I was told that I am not allowed to be dharmic, rather than lead an Adharmic life. Har har har har har har har har ੴ.
WJKK WJKF
Please read this;
Mohsin Fani, Dabistan-e-Mazahib
Mohsin Fani was a historian, traveller and mystic who was born around 1615 in Persia. During the lifetime of Guru Hargobind he migrated to India and studied the religions of India. He became very good friends with Guru Hargobind and spent a great deal of time with the Guru upto the Gurus death in 1644. In between 1645 and 1654 he produced his great work 'Dabistan-e-Mazahib' meaning 'the schools of thought of various religions'. This book provides the most accurate account of the life of Guru Hargobind and the Sikhs at that time. Mohsin Fani writes:
"The Guru believes in one God. His followers put not their faith in idol-worship. They never pray or practice austerities like the Hindus. They believe not in their incarnations, or places of pilgrimage nor the Sanskrit language which the Hindus deem to be the language of gods. They believe that all the Gurus are the same as Nanak. The Sikhs are not restricted in the matter of eating or drinking. When Partap Mall Giani saw a Hindu boy who had a mind to embrace Islam, he said, 'Why do you become a Muhammadan? If you have an inclination to eat everything, you may become a Sikh of the Guru and eat whatever you like."
Some use a quote from Mohsin Fani to prove that Guru Nanak and Guru Arjan did not allow Sikhs to eat meat. Since he only emigrated to India during the lifetime of Guru Hargobind, his information about Guru Nanak and Guru Arjan cannot be considered an eyewitness account of his. Also vegetarian proponents usually only give a partial quote, the full quote of his is:
"Nanak himself abstained from animal food and the prudent Arjan endevoured to add to his saintly merit and influence by a similar moderation; but the adventurous Hargobind became a hunter and an eater of flesh, and his disciples imitated him in these robust practices."
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VJKK VJKF
My ahankar has nothing to do with this debate, it is truly surprising how someone can sense ahankar just by reading something. I'm not judging anyone singularly, I am just telling what the views are based on Gurmat. If someone mistakes that for ahankar, then hopefully they realize that it is not ahankar. If someone told me to eat meat or die, I'd rather die than to eat meat. What can a meat eating human understand when their minds are infused with tamas guni thoughts (since that is the reward of eating tamas guni foods). It does not matter if you have stated that meat costs 100 rupees, I was saying that for general knowledge, so it makes no sense for someone to say a bikhari would eat meat because it is cheap. Clearly anyone who thinks living while turning their backs on Hari is a nastik. I would rather die today if I was told that I am not allowed to be dharmic, rather than lead an Adharmic life. Har har har har har har har har ੴ.
WJKK WJKF
Carry on living in a dream lol. We were all born sinners, you act and talk like you have attained mukhti already because your vegan lol. Crack on
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WJKK WJKFVJKK VJKF
There is only one definition of a Gursikh, and that is a Bibekh Gurmukh. They are all vegetarian, and whatever dairy they do get, they make sure it is from an animal who is not under any threat.
Meat is so expensive anyways in India, so I doubt someone could buy it for 100 rupees. There are so many alternatives rather than turning to flesh. Go ahead and buy from rapists/murderers who sell dairy/meat if you are from the west, but don't call yourself an astik while doing so :)
I'm not actually talking about meat or food, it's a reply to your post which I quoted in regards to people who are exploited for poor pay under poor conditions and your opinion on them and their reasons why.
You are very high and mighty about your veganism. You have no idea what the term food means to people in different situations and circumstances. You judge when your in no position to. Tell the homeless person on the street about your veganism and rape/slaughter of innocent animals and then go home to your warm home and vegan meal. While the homeless person will eat whatever they can.
I didn't say meat costs 100 rupees. It was an estimate of poor exploitive pay and yes meat is maybe expensive for people in India, hence why they will buy the OFFAL as no one will eat it and it's cheaper than vegan, vegetarian and meat foods!
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Respected Singh ji, those people do suffer, but it is out of their choice, and our money that we spend on the items they manufacture are paid to them, so technically we are paying them for a product and they use that money on anything they want, and those people have rights in life. Me, and many other Sikhs who realize what a crime it is to support slaughter houses/rape houses for sheer selfishness will not stoop up to manmatt like many others have. It is hukam to not support crimes against pranees for pleasure! If someone calls themselves a worshiper of Paramatma ji and then gives agony to Paramatma ji's prakirti then that person is a nastik, since they do not see Hari in those animals. I'm focusing on animals in this thread because this thread is about DIET, so feel free to private message me if you want to go offtopic.
WJKK WJKG
I kinda find your post patronising at the least. I obviously do not know your personal living standard or where you live. But you have such a black and white/wrong or right view. You do not know peoples personal situations who HAVE to work in places like China, India or Nangladesh for basically peanuts to keep families ticking by.
Due to my grandparents decisions, I am lucky to be born in the UK and have prosperity, health, wealth and eduction with progression for alll my family- that's not the case for many, many of these people who you so easily categorise.
You judge people so easily and use the word "nasthik" so easily! Again, who are you to judge who is and isn't nasthik. When someone steals bread or eats the offal of an animal which has been discarded and then thanks parmatma for that that food, are they "nasthik"
What hunger have you felt in your stomach? What have you suffered in this world? Do you work 14 hours for 100 rupees to put food on the table (whatever's the cheapest, so maybe not vegan from the vegan deli)?
Your hippyish black and white view on the world is alil misguided.
In your view the ideal gursikh is celebate and vegan. In my world a gursikh can be defined under many a definition.
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WJKK WJKF
Penji, I think we will have to agree to disagree because you and many other Sikhs denounce all the other historical accounts of our gurus hunting, carrying out jhatka and consuming jhatka. Please refer me to an account of one these naturally dead animal skin merchants in Indian or Sikh history.
Combat skills have to be understood, learnt and practised to be affective in defence. It is not given just how Bhakti is not given. It's achieved. How often do you practice gatka?
At one point in Sikh history Sikhs did not fight, at another point, they fought. You have to physically strong to do this. Not simply eat to survive. This is about practicality of simple warfare on a battlefield. If you are weaker, you will die quicker. I'm not saying you personally lol.
This is a difference of opinion, yet you brandish the word "nastik" alittle to quickly I think.
WJKK WJKF
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VJKK VJKF
The Shakti side can be achieved without hinsa, ji. I think a lot of people know how to punish the guilty, it is a misconception to think that many (Sikhs) do not know self protection. Besides, does anyone sane think they actually are the reason why they recieve shubh labh in defense? All defense/shakti is Sri Guru Sahib ji's gift to their beloved Sikhs.. We cannot do anything positive without our Sri Guru Sahib ji. & about the nigara, from what my knowledge is, it is made from an already deceased animal (who was not killed). If it is made from the skin of a killed animal, I & many other Sikhs would be against that. I'm against all hunting done from us foolish unenlightened beings. I think it is a misconseption that anyone besides our Sri Guru Sahib ji/brahmgyani through Sikhism can give mukti to an animal through hunting. I've read that shabad, and I think the views I have stated still fit really well and according to the shabad. We as Sikhs eat plants for surviving, and we have no joy/anand in eating. Our enjoyment comes from dharam. Hopefully you will see that the message is to see Paramatma ji is in the hearts of those sentient beings, so it is an aprad to eat meat. If you call yourself a worshipper of Paramatma ji, but will not respect the wishes of Paramatma ji's (innocent) prakirti then that individual is a nastik.
WJKK WJKF
Penji, I think we will have to agree to disagree because you and many other Sikhs denounce all the other historical accounts of our gurus hunting, carrying out jhatka and consuming jhatka. Please refer me to an account of one these naturally dead animal skin merchants in Indian or Sikh history.
Combat skills have to be understood, learnt and practised to be affective in defence? It is not given just how Bhakti is not given. It's achieved. How often do you practice gatka?
This is a difference of opinion, yet you brandish the word "nastik" alittle to quickly I think.
WJKK WJKF
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I'm on my phone but when I'm on desktop I will disprove your broscience. Look at my post 3 posts or so ago and then tell me I support what youre saying.
WJKK WJKF
Brother, this is not an argument. I have not personally insulted you, I don't believe in that. But as you can see, many a "sikh"' is quick on insulting someone with a different opinion. You also suggested I am taking steroids, why? Can we not debate different opinions and understanding, experiences without getting personal?
I don't understand how you can say there is not such a thing as a healthy weight? Is obesity not the opposite side of the scale to that?
When you go for an operation, you have to be of a certain weight not considered to be obese for your own safety. When ones weight is obese, health issues follow, if you are lighter with a low bmi is that not considered healthy?
Here is a web page on what I'm on about: http://www.builtlean.com/2012/12/24/protein-build-muscle/
Here's a snippet from the page, please read:
When it comes to building some serious muscle, all that work you do in the gym is only half of the battle. The other half takes place in the kitchen. Diet is extremely important when trying to improve your body composition. Without proper nutrients, no matter how much time you spend weight training, you wont get the results youre looking for.
Your muscles are made up of over 25% protein (a very significant amount!) along with up to 75% water and stored glycogen (carbohydrates). While people generally understand that consuming adequate protein is very important to support muscle growth and maintain lean mass, the amount of protein to consume becomes the tricky part.
I ve seen recommendations that range from as low as 50 grams per day to as much as 3 times your bodyweight. Although it sounds good in theory, the traditional more is better approach doesnt necessarily work here. So how much protein do you need when trying to get huge?
Protein To Build Muscle | Common Recommendations
The American Dietetic Associations RDA (recommended daily allowance) for protein is 0.36g per pound of bodyweight. This would mean that as a bare minimum, a 180lb male only needs 65 grams of protein per day to meet requirements. One thing to note is that these requirements are based off of sedentary individuals and those that are more active will have a slightly higher RDA.
The National Strength and Conditioning Association (N.S.C.A.) recommends that active people consume 0.4g to 0.6g per pound of bodyweight with as much as 0.8g for a competitive athlete. What is important to note is that with a higher overall activity level the requirement goes up. I think it is safe to say that if you are trying to build muscle you will be on the higher end of the spectrum.1
Protein To Build Muscle | How Much Is Really Enough?
Popular belief is that in order to build muscle you must consume up to 1.0g of protein per pound of bodyweight. For some of you that might seem high and for others it might seem too low. The answer to that is really, it depends.
Research shows that the average trainee looking to build muscle can benefit anywhere from .6g to around 1.1g of protein per pound of bodyweight. It all really depends on your goals, genetics, and the rest of your diet, but aiming to hit between those targets should be sufficient for most people. For example, a relatively fit 180lb man should aim to consume between 108g and 198g of protein daily for muscle gain.2
What I recommend if you are overweight and trying to reduce your body fat is to aim to consume your target bodyweight in grams. For instance, if a 225lb man wants to reduce his bodyweight to 180lbs through proper training and nutrition he would consume a base of 180g of protein per day.3 It is also important to note that lowering your carbohydrate and fat intake as extremely important as well!
On the other hand, if you are trying to gain weight it might not be a bad idea to eat a few extra grams of protein (along with fat and carbohydrate) to get your calories up.4 You may have heard that consuming extra protein is a waste and that what your body doesnt use will be excreted, but I beg to differ. Although this is partially true, if you are trying to put on size and weight, you need to consume extra calories so now is not the time to nitpick nutrients just eat!
Protein To Build Muscle | Not All Protein Is Created Equal
One question that I get asked frequently is What is are good sources of protein? To answer that you have to first understand that there are two types of protein that occur in nature: complete proteins (all of the amino acids) and incomplete proteins (some of the amino acids). Very simply, complete proteins come from animal source and incomplete proteins come from plant sources.
Whats more is animal proteins have a higher biological value (BV) which means they are more readily used by your body for cellular repair and muscle growth. To set a standard, eggs are given a BV of 100%, beef 80% and beans are less than 50%. What this means for you is the higher quality of protein you consume the more efficiently your body will utilize it.
Speaking of BV, whey protein can have a value of 90% all the way up to 104% depending on the quality of processing. For those of you who have trouble eating enough steak and eggs, this is an easy way to increase your daily protein intake. The only down side is you may get a little stronger. Wink, wink.
Protein To Build Muscle | The Bottom Line
Whether your goal is to build muscle, burn fat, or train like an athlete, you should aim to consume roughly your bodyweight in grams of protein daily to cover all your bases. Since this isnt an exact science, going a little over or a little under shouldnt be detrimental to your results or health. I will, however, argue that it may be better to err on the side of eating a little more rather than eating too little as the drawbacks of undershooting far outweigh the effects of overdoing it.
If youre looking for a program that takes the guesswork out of nutrition and exercise, so you get lean and strong, check out BuiltLeans 12-Week Body Transformation Program.
I'm on my phone but when I'm on desktop I will disprove your broscience. Look at my post 3 posts or so ago and then tell me I support what youre saying.
WJKK WJKF
Brother, this is not an argument. I have not personally insulted you, I don't believe in that. But as you can see, many a "sikh"' is quick on insulting someone with a different opinion. You also suggested I am taking steroids, why? Can we not debate different opinions and understanding, experiences without getting personal?
I don't understand how you can say there is not such a thing as a healthy weight? Is obesity not the opposite side of the scale to that?
When you go for an operation, you have to be of a certain weight not considered to be obese for your own safety. When ones weight is obese, health issues follow, if you are lighter with a low bmi is that not considered healthy?
Here is a web page on what I'm on about: http://www.builtlean.com/2012/12/24/protein-build-muscle/
Here's a snippet from the page, please read:
When it comes to building some serious muscle, all that work you do in the gym is only half of the battle. The other half takes place in the kitchen. Diet is extremely important when trying to improve your body composition. Without proper nutrients, no matter how much time you spend weight training, you wont get the results youre looking for.
Your muscles are made up of over 25% protein (a very significant amount!) along with up to 75% water and stored glycogen (carbohydrates). While people generally understand that consuming adequate protein is very important to support muscle growth and maintain lean mass, the amount of protein to consume becomes the tricky part.
I ve seen recommendations that range from as low as 50 grams per day to as much as 3 times your bodyweight. Although it sounds good in theory, the traditional more is better approach doesnt necessarily work here. So how much protein do you need when trying to get huge?
Protein To Build Muscle | Common Recommendations
The American Dietetic Associations RDA (recommended daily allowance) for protein is 0.36g per pound of bodyweight. This would mean that as a bare minimum, a 180lb male only needs 65 grams of protein per day to meet requirements. One thing to note is that these requirements are based off of sedentary individuals and those that are more active will have a slightly higher RDA.
The National Strength and Conditioning Association (N.S.C.A.) recommends that active people consume 0.4g to 0.6g per pound of bodyweight with as much as 0.8g for a competitive athlete. What is important to note is that with a higher overall activity level the requirement goes up. I think it is safe to say that if you are trying to build muscle you will be on the higher end of the spectrum.1
Protein To Build Muscle | How Much Is Really Enough?
Popular belief is that in order to build muscle you must consume up to 1.0g of protein per pound of bodyweight. For some of you that might seem high and for others it might seem too low. The answer to that is really, it depends.
Research shows that the average trainee looking to build muscle can benefit anywhere from .6g to around 1.1g of protein per pound of bodyweight. It all really depends on your goals, genetics, and the rest of your diet, but aiming to hit between those targets should be sufficient for most people. For example, a relatively fit 180lb man should aim to consume between 108g and 198g of protein daily for muscle gain.2
What I recommend if you are overweight and trying to reduce your body fat is to aim to consume your target bodyweight in grams. For instance, if a 225lb man wants to reduce his bodyweight to 180lbs through proper training and nutrition he would consume a base of 180g of protein per day.3 It is also important to note that lowering your carbohydrate and fat intake as extremely important as well!
On the other hand, if you are trying to gain weight it might not be a bad idea to eat a few extra grams of protein (along with fat and carbohydrate) to get your calories up.4 You may have heard that consuming extra protein is a waste and that what your body doesnt use will be excreted, but I beg to differ. Although this is partially true, if you are trying to put on size and weight, you need to consume extra calories so now is not the time to nitpick nutrients just eat!
Protein To Build Muscle | Not All Protein Is Created Equal
One question that I get asked frequently is What is are good sources of protein? To answer that you have to first understand that there are two types of protein that occur in nature: complete proteins (all of the amino acids) and incomplete proteins (some of the amino acids). Very simply, complete proteins come from animal source and incomplete proteins come from plant sources.
Whats more is animal proteins have a higher biological value (BV) which means they are more readily used by your body for cellular repair and muscle growth. To set a standard, eggs are given a BV of 100%, beef 80% and beans are less than 50%. What this means for you is the higher quality of protein you consume the more efficiently your body will utilize it.
Speaking of BV, whey protein can have a value of 90% all the way up to 104% depending on the quality of processing. For those of you who have trouble eating enough steak and eggs, this is an easy way to increase your daily protein intake. The only down side is you may get a little stronger. Wink, wink.
Protein To Build Muscle | The Bottom Line
Whether your goal is to build muscle, burn fat, or train like an athlete, you should aim to consume roughly your bodyweight in grams of protein daily to cover all your bases. Since this isnt an exact science, going a little over or a little under shouldnt be detrimental to your results or health. I will, however, argue that it may be better to err on the side of eating a little more rather than eating too little as the drawbacks of undershooting far outweigh the effects of overdoing it.
If youre looking for a program that takes the guesswork out of nutrition and exercise, so you get lean and strong, check out BuiltLeans 12-Week Body Transformation Program.
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Our religion only PROTECTS the innocent, and we will also PUNISH those who are guilty for punishing the innocent. Can you link me to the shabad please, ji?
Also, just think about those Biveki Gurmukhs, they do not eat meat, and they are the highest form of Sikhs.
WJKK WJKF
Penji, I agree with you on that. But the way majority of sikhs neglect the shakti side of the Khalsa, I don't think there will be any of us able to know how to punish someone who harms the innocent. That's my point.
A soldier trains mentally and physically before being able to fight in battle. How do you suppose one should train to use the kirpan or fire a gun?
You never answered me how the nigara would of been produced on order of Shiri Guru Gobind Singh? Do you think they should of used a different material?
Donyou disagree with the misals what practised hunting too? Do you shun what they did for the panth? Are you disgusted with Maharaja Ranjit Singhs hunting too?
I am not saying you should be a meat eater. But at the same time no one should say to me I should be vegan or vegetarian. Our Gurus hunted to give mukhti and for practice. Puratan Granths state they consumed meat after jhatka, validated by nihangs. You could never stop jhatka due to this reason. But compassion can be given at point of jhatka and yes, mukhti is achieved when a Khalsa sikh carries out jhatka.
I have pasted Shiri Guru Nanak Dev ji's shabad below:
-- Page 1289 of 1430 --
ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੧ ॥
Salok Ma 1 ||
Shalok, First Mehl:
ਪਉਣੈ ਪਾਣੀ ਅਗਨੀ ਜੀਉ ਤਿਨ ਕਿਆ ਖੁਸੀਆ ਕਿਆ ਪੀੜ ॥
Pounai Paanee Aganee Jeeo Thin Kiaa Khuseeaa Kiaa Peerr ||
Living beings are formed of air, water and fire. They are subject to pleasure and pain.
ਧਰਤੀ ਪਾਤਾਲੀ ਆਕਾਸੀ ਇਕਿ ਦਰਿ ਰਹਨਿ ਵਜੀਰ ॥
Dhharathee Paathaalee Aakaasee Eik Dhar Rehan Vajeer ||
In this world, in the nether regions of the underworld, and in the Akaashic ethers of the heavens, some remain ministers in the Court of the Lord.
ਇਕਨਾ ਵਡੀ ਆਰਜਾ ਇਕਿ ਮਰਿ ਹੋਹਿ ਜਹੀਰ ॥
Eikanaa Vaddee Aarajaa Eik Mar Hohi Jeheer ||
Some live long lives, while others suffer and die.
ਇਕਿ ਦੇ ਖਾਹਿ ਨਿਖੁਟੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਇਕਿ ਸਦਾ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਫਕੀਰ ॥
Eik Dhae Khaahi Nikhuttai Naahee Eik Sadhaa Firehi Fakeer ||
Some give and consume, and still their wealth is not exhausted, while others remain poor forever.
ਹੁਕਮੀ ਸਾਜੇ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਢਾਹੇ ਏਕ ਚਸੇ ਮਹਿ ਲਖ ॥
Hukamee Saajae Hukamee Dtaahae Eaek Chasae Mehi Lakh ||
In His Will He creates, and in His Will He destroys thousands in an instant.
ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਨਥੈ ਨਥਿਆ ਬਖਸੇ ਤੋੜੇ ਨਥ ॥
Sabh Ko Nathhai Nathhiaa Bakhasae Thorrae Nathh ||
He has harnessed everyone with His harness; when He forgives, he breaks the harness.
ਵਰਨਾ ਚਿਹਨਾ ਬਾਹਰਾ ਲੇਖੇ ਬਾਝੁ ਅਲਖੁ ॥
Varanaa Chihanaa Baaharaa Laekhae Baajh Alakh ||
He has no color or features; He is invisible and beyond calculation.
ਕਿਉ ਕਥੀਐ ਕਿਉ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਾਪੈ ਸਚੋ ਸਚੁ ॥
Kio Kathheeai Kio Aakheeai Jaapai Sacho Sach ||
How can He be described? He is known as the Truest of the True.
ਕਰਣਾ ਕਥਨਾ ਕਾਰ ਸਭ ਨਾਨਕ ਆਪਿ ਅਕਥੁ ॥
Karanaa Kathhanaa Kaar Sabh Naanak Aap Akathh ||
All the actions which are done and described, O Nanak, are done by the Indescribable Lord Himself.
ਅਕਥ ਕੀ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਣੇਇ ॥
Akathh Kee Kathhaa Sunaee ||
Whoever hears the description of the indescribable,
ਰਿਧਿ ਬੁਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੧॥
Ridhh Budhh Sidhh Giaan Sadhaa Sukh Hoe ||1||
Is blessed with wealth, intelligence, perfection, spiritual wisdom and eternal peace. ||1||
ਮਃ ੧ ॥
Ma 1 ||
First Mehl:
ਅਜਰੁ ਜਰੈ ਤ ਨਉ ਕੁਲ ਬੰਧੁ ॥
Ajar Jarai Th No Kul Bandhh ||
One who bears the unbearable, controls the nine holes of the body.
ਪੂਜੈ ਪ੍ਰਾਣ ਹੋਵੈ ਥਿਰੁ ਕੰਧੁ ॥
Poojai Praan Hovai Thhir Kandhh ||
One who worships and adores the Lord with his breath of life, gains stability in his body-wall.
ਕਹਾਂ ਤੇ ਆਇਆ ਕਹਾਂ ਏਹੁ ਜਾਣੁ ॥
Kehaan Thae Aaeiaa Kehaan Eaehu Jaan ||
Where has he come from, and where will he go?
ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਤ ਰਹੈ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥
Jeevath Marath Rehai Paravaan ||
Remaining dead while yet alive, he is accepted and approved.
ਹੁਕਮੈ ਬੂਝੈ ਤਤੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ॥
Hukamai Boojhai Thath Pashhaanai ||
Whoever understands the Hukam of the Lord's Command, realizes the essence of reality.
ਇਹੁ ਪਰਸਾਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੇ ਜਾਣੈ ॥
Eihu Parasaadh Guroo Thae Jaanai ||
This is known by Guru's Grace.
ਹੋਂਦਾ ਫੜੀਅਗੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਾਣੁ ॥
Honadhaa Farreeag Naanak Jaan ||
O Nanak, know this: egotism leads to bondage.
ਨਾ ਹਉ ਨਾ ਮੈ ਜੂਨੀ ਪਾਣੁ ॥੨॥
Naa Ho Naa Mai Joonee Paan ||2||
Only those who have no ego and no self-conceit, are not consigned to reincarnation. ||2||
ਪਉੜੀ ॥
Pourree ||
Pauree:
ਪੜ੍ਹ੍ਹੀਐ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਾਲਾਹ ਹੋਰਿ ਬੁਧੀ ਮਿਥਿਆ ॥
Parrheeai Naam Saalaah Hor Budhhanaee Mithhiaa ||
Read the Praise of the Lord's Name; other intellectual pursuits are false.
ਬਿਨੁ ਸਚੇ ਵਾਪਾਰ ਜਨਮੁ ਬਿਰਥਿਆ ॥
Bin Sachae Vaapaar Janam Birathhiaa ||
Without dealing in Truth, life is worthless.
ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰੁ ਨ ਕਿਨ ਹੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
Anth N Paaraavaar N Kin Hee Paaeiaa ||
No one has ever found the Lord's end or limitation.
ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਗਰਬਿ ਗੁਬਾਰੁ ਤਿਨ ਸਚੁ ਨ ਭਾਇਆ ॥
Sabh Jag Garab Gubaar Thin Sach N Bhaaeiaa ||
All the world is enveloped by the darkness of egotistical pride. It does not like the Truth.
ਚਲੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਿ ਤਾਵਣਿ ਤਤਿਆ ॥
Chalae Naam Visaar Thaavan Thathiaa ||
Those who depart from this world, forgetting the Naam, shall be roasted in the frying pan.
ਬਲਦੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਤੇਲੁ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਘਤਿਆ ॥
Baladhee Andhar Thael Dhubidhhaa Ghathiaa ||
They pour the oil of duality within, and burn.
ਆਇਆ ਉਠੀ ਖੇਲੁ ਫਿਰੈ ਉਵਤਿਆ ॥
Aaeiaa Outhee Khael Firai Ouvathiaa ||
They come into the world and wander around aimlessly; they depart when the play is finished.
ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੈ ਮੇਲੁ ਸਚੈ ਰਤਿਆ ॥੨੪॥
Naanak Sachai Mael Sachai Rathiaa ||24||
O Nanak, imbued with Truth, the mortals merge in Truth. ||24||
ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੧ ॥
Salok Ma 1 ||
Shalok, First Mehl:
ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਨਿੰਮਿਆ ਮਾਸੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਵਾਸੁ ॥
Pehilaan Maasahu Ninmiaa Maasai Andhar Vaas ||
First, the mortal is conceived in the flesh, and then he dwells in the flesh.
ਜੀਉ ਪਾਇ ਮਾਸੁ ਮੁਹਿ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਹਡੁ ਚੰਮੁ ਤਨੁ ਮਾਸੁ ॥
Jeeo Paae Maas Muhi Miliaa Hadd Chanm Than Maas ||
When he comes alive, his mouth takes flesh; his bones, skin and body are flesh.
ਮਾਸਹੁ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਕਢਿਆ ਮੰਮਾ ਮਾਸੁ ਗਿਰਾਸੁ ॥
Maasahu Baahar Kadtiaa Manmaa Maas Giraas ||
He comes out of the womb of flesh, and takes a mouthful of flesh at the breast.
ਮੁਹੁ ਮਾਸੈ ਕਾ ਜੀਭ ਮਾਸੈ ਕੀ ਮਾਸੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਾਸੁ ॥
Muhu Maasai Kaa Jeebh Maasai Kee Maasai Andhar Saas ||
His mouth is flesh, his tongue is flesh; his breath is in the flesh.
ਵਡਾ ਹੋਆ ਵੀਆਹਿਆ ਘਰਿ ਲੈ ਆਇਆ ਮਾਸੁ ॥
Vaddaa Hoaa Veeaahiaa Ghar Lai Aaeiaa Maas ||
He grows up and is married, and brings his wife of flesh into his home.
ਮਾਸਹੁ ਹੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਊਪਜੈ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਸਭੋ ਸਾਕੁ ॥
Maasahu Hee Maas Oopajai Maasahu Sabho Saak ||
Flesh is produced from flesh; all relatives are made of flesh.
ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਬੁਝੀਐ ਤਾਂ ਕੋ ਆਵੈ ਰਾਸਿ ॥
Sathigur Miliai Hukam Bujheeai Thaan Ko Aavai Raas ||
When the mortal meets the True Guru, and realizes the Hukam of the Lord's Command, then he comes to be reformed.
ਆਪਿ ਛੁਟੇ ਨਹ ਛੂਟੀਐ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਚਨਿ ਬਿਣਾਸੁ ॥੧॥
Aap Shhuttae Neh Shhootteeai Naanak Bachan Binaas ||1||
Releasing himself, the mortal does not find release; O Nanak, through empty words, one is ruined. ||1||
ਮਃ ੧ ॥
Ma 1 ||
First Mehl:
ਮਾਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਝਗੜੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੈ ॥
Maas Maas Kar Moorakh Jhagarrae Giaan Dhhiaan Nehee Jaanai ||
The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.
ਕਉਣੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਉਣੁ ਸਾਗੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਪ ਸਮਾਣੇ ॥
Koun Maas Koun Saag Kehaavai Kis Mehi Paap Samaanae ||
What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?
ਗੈਂਡਾ ਮਾਰਿ ਹੋਮ ਜਗ ਕੀਏ ਦੇਵਤਿਆ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੇ ॥
Gainaddaa Maar Hom Jag Keeeae Dhaevathiaa Kee Baanae ||
It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.
ਮਾਸੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਬੈਸਿ ਨਕੁ ਪਕੜਹਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਮਾਣਸ ਖਾਣੇ ॥
Maas Shhodd Bais Nak Pakarrehi Raathee Maanas Khaanae ||
Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.
ਫੜੁ ਕਰਿ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਨੋ ਦਿਖਲਾਵਹਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਝੈ ॥
Farr Kar Lokaan No Dhikhalaavehi Giaan Dhhiaan Nehee Soojhai ||
They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.
ਨਾਨਕ ਅੰਧੇ ਸਿਉ ਕਿਆ ਕਹੀਐ ਕਹੈ ਨ ਕਹਿਆ ਬੂਝੈ ॥
Naanak Andhhae Sio Kiaa Keheeai Kehai N Kehiaa Boojhai ||
O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said.
ਅੰਧਾ ਸੋਇ ਜਿ ਅੰਧੁ ਕਮਾਵੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਸਿ ਲੋਚਨ ਨਾਹੀ ॥
Andhhaa Soe J Andhh Kamaavai This Ridhai S Lochan Naahee ||
They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts.
ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਕੀ ਰਕਤੁ ਨਿਪੰਨੇ ਮਛੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਨ ਖਾਂਹੀ ॥
Maath Pithaa Kee Rakath Nipannae Mashhee Maas N Khaanhee ||
They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat.
ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਪੁਰਖੈ ਜਾਂ ਨਿਸਿ ਮੇਲਾ ਓਥੈ ਮੰਧੁ ਕਮਾਹੀ ॥
Eisathree Purakhai Jaan Nis Maelaa Outhhai Mandhh Kamaahee ||
But when men and women meet in the night, they come together in the flesh.
ਮਾਸਹੁ ਨਿੰਮੇ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਜੰਮੇ ਹਮ ਮਾਸੈ ਕੇ ਭਾਂਡੇ ॥
Maasahu Ninmae Maasahu Janmae Ham Maasai Kae Bhaanddae ||
In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh.
ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕਛੁ ਸੂਝੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਚਤੁਰੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਪਾਂਡੇ ॥
Giaan Dhhiaan Kashh Soojhai Naahee Chathur Kehaavai Paanddae ||
You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar.
ਬਾਹਰ ਕਾ ਮਾਸੁ ਮੰਦਾ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਘਰ ਕਾ ਮਾਸੁ ਚੰਗੇਰਾ ॥
Baahar Kaa Maas Mandhaa Suaamee Ghar Kaa Maas Changaeraa ||
O master, you believe that flesh on the outside is bad, but the flesh of those in your own home is good.
ਜੀਅ ਜੰਤ ਸਭਿ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਹੋਏ ਜੀਇ ਲਇਆ ਵਾਸੇਰਾ ॥
Jeea Janth Sabh Maasahu Hoeae Jeee Laeiaa Vaasaeraa ||
All beings and creatures are flesh; the soul has taken up its home in the flesh.
ਅਭਖੁ ਭਖਹਿ ਭਖੁ ਤਜਿ ਛੋਡਹਿ ਅੰਧੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਜਿਨ ਕੇਰਾ ॥
Abhakh Bhakhehi Bhakh Thaj Shhoddehi Andhh Guroo Jin Kaeraa ||
They eat the uneatable; they reject and abandon what they could eat. They have a teacher who is blind.
ਮਾਸਹੁ ਨਿੰਮੇ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਜੰਮੇ ਹਮ ਮਾਸੈ ਕੇ ਭਾਂਡੇ ॥
Maasahu Ninmae Maasahu Janmae Ham Maasai Kae Bhaanddae ||
In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh.
ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕਛੁ ਸੂਝੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਚਤੁਰੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਪਾਂਡੇ ॥
Giaan Dhhiaan Kashh Soojhai Naahee Chathur Kehaavai Paanddae ||
You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar.
ਮਾਸੁ ਪੁਰਾਣੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਤੇਬੀ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗਿ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਮਾਣਾ ॥
Maas Puraanee Maas Kathaebanaee Chahu Jug Maas Kamaanaa ||
Meat is allowed in the Puraanas, meat is allowed in the Bible and the Koran. Throughout the four ages, meat has been used.
ਜਜਿ ਕਾਜਿ ਵੀਆਹਿ ਸੁਹਾਵੈ ਓਥੈ ਮਾਸੁ ਸਮਾਣਾ ॥
Jaj Kaaj Veeaahi Suhaavai Outhhai Maas Samaanaa ||
It is featured in sacred feasts and marriage festivities; meat is used in them.
ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਪੁਰਖ ਨਿਪਜਹਿ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ ਸੁਲਤਾਨਾਂ ॥
Eisathree Purakh Nipajehi Maasahu Paathisaah Sulathaanaan ||
Women, men, kings and emperors originate from meat.
ਜੇ ਓਇ ਦਿਸਹਿ ਨਰਕਿ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਤਾਂ ਉਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਕਾ ਦਾਨੁ ਨ ਲੈਣਾ ॥
Jae Oue Dhisehi Narak Jaandhae Thaan Ounh Kaa Dhaan N Lainaa ||
If you see them going to hell, then do not accept charitable gifts from them.
ਦੇਂਦਾ ਨਰਕਿ ਸੁਰਗਿ ਲੈਦੇ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਏਹੁ ਧਿਙਾਣਾ ॥
Dhaenadhaa Narak Surag Laidhae Dhaekhahu Eaehu Dhhin(g)aanaa ||
The giver goes to hell, while the receiver goes to heaven - look at this injustice.
ਆਪਿ ਨ ਬੂਝੈ ਲੋਕ ਬੁਝਾਏ ਪਾਂਡੇ ਖਰਾ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥
Aap N Boojhai Lok Bujhaaeae Paanddae Kharaa Siaanaa ||
You do not understand your own self, but you preach to other people. O Pandit, you are very wise indeed.
ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੂ ਜਾਣੈ ਹੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਥਹੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਉਪੰਨਾ ॥
Paanddae Thoo Jaanai Hee Naahee Kithhahu Maas Oupannaa ||
O Pandit, you do not know where meat originated.
ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਅੰਨੁ ਕਮਾਦੁ ਕਪਾਹਾਂ ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਗੰਨਾ ॥
Thoeiahu Ann Kamaadh Kapaahaan Thoeiahu Thribhavan Gannaa ||
Corn, sugar cane and cotton are produced from water. The three worlds came from water.
ਤੋਆ ਆਖੈ ਹਉ ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਹਛਾ ਤੋਐ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਬਿਕਾਰਾ ॥
Thoaa Aakhai Ho Bahu Bidhh Hashhaa Thoai Bahuth Bikaaraa ||
Water says, ""I am good in many ways."" But water takes many forms.
ਏਤੇ ਰਸ ਛੋਡਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੰਨਿਆਸੀ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਹੈ ਵਿਚਾਰਾ ॥੨॥
Eaethae Ras Shhodd Hovai Sanniaasee Naanak Kehai Vichaaraa ||2||
Forsaking these delicacies, one becomes a true Sannyaasee, a detached hermit. Nanak reflects and speaks. ||2||
ਪਉੜੀ ॥
Pourree ||
Pauree:
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If the death torture rape murder and slaughter of innocent sentient beings makes u laugh i think there is something seriously wrong with you.
I think you should seek medical help
Goodluck little bro
Wjkk Wjkf
I have not said that all the above is funny? I find how you as a vegan sit on high morals. You never answered any of my questions where you buy your veg from.....or the fertilisers used to grow your veg. It's easier to ignore the questions what highlight issues within your vegan diet.
I'd have more respect if you said you grow your own.
You should learn some nimrata brother when you do your bhagti.
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Again just because you have been lifting for x number of years it doesn't mean you know Jack about nutrition and lifting. Chances are you're probably on roids/datdere if you even don't know the basics.
I don't care what you eat like I said keep that to yourself but you are spewing misinformation and broscience which has been disproved in the scientific community and among lifters who acknowledge nutrition and how body works. Again there is no such thing as healthy body weight lol
You're a fool if you argue about whether or not you should eat meat so I won't discuss that with you nor do I care but if you try to say you need that much protein to make natural limit gains then i will disprove it. Even when a person is on a caloric deficit to get leaner and you want to carb cycle its easy for a vegan to get that much protein.
WJKK WJKF
You don't know me. Yet you assume very much about me.
Google "amount of protein to build muscle". Do some research.
What I love about you vegetarians and vegans is you tell others your better, spirituality higher.
I do not need to argue about meat eating. Just don't tell me I need to be a vegetarian or a vegan if I'm a sikh.
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WJKK WJKFThat is disgusting for you to take part in hunting. Do your hands give mukti to the prans which are killed for your sheer sadistic mind? My Sri Guru Sahib ji grants mukti to those animals, while yours do not.
Penji, guru sahib gave us guru panth and guru Granth. Are you also as disgusted at the sikhs who slaughtered other humans during battle? Or the sikhs what got revenge on the individuals who attacked our gurdware in puratan times?
Take your disgust and go and discuss it with the many Nihang Singh in Anandpur celebrating Hola Mohalla, also carrying out jhatka as maha prashad.
Read Shri Guru Nanak dev jis shabad on the disgust of meat by the pandits and also read how guru sahib ordered the nigara to be built and how sikh and the gurus jhatkaad animals for consumption in various granths.
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sorry bro i read the first few para's n i couldnt help but laugh.
Where r u getting this information from?? how can u say i dont eat enough protien when u don even know my size lol??
sorry mate i cant take you seriously, i really hope you are young because you have a lot to learn n i don hink u watched any of those movies in five minutes.
im dont wanna bother responding but i feel like i have too just incase people take you seriously.
studies PROVE that a sendentary vegan is more healthy than a marathon runner who has a bad diet.
You think carbs make you fat lol, search durianrider on youtube
by cutting carbs out of your diet your body has to run on fat but what does this prove ?
I seriously hope you are young bro, like 15 or 16, you have a lot to learn about the world.
I highly reccommend you watch those videos and read those books i said in the previous post
Please stop spreading false information and do some reserach also, although the who say carcinagin is processed meat they also say its most probably unproccessed meat, and there are many more studies which support this.
the most well renound doctors in the world say meat is related to disease and carbs do not make you fat. Dr mcdoogle for example
I hope guru blesses you with some gyan about compassion, if the guru cant save you from this 'the world is already feels pain so lets add to it' thinking and mentality no one can.
WJKK WJKF
WJKK WJKF
I also find what you say about veganism funny.
I asked you more info on your weight if you read what I wrote properly but obviously you won't answer my post accurately.
Again, if your eating 110g of protein, that is enough for a 5 stone person to build muscle. That's why I said that's too low.
Again, be a vegan but don't tell me to be.
Compassion can be within death aswell. That's what jhatka is.
Do you think it's wrong to put a dog down here in the uk when it's too ill?
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WJKK WJKFAdvocating flesh consumption with Gurbani is really bad.. Our Guru Sahibs teach us to have daya for all beings, when you fail to see Paramatma ji in those animals which you eat (with your own permission), are you really a Sikh then..?
Paramatma will be the only judge in my karma and whether I'm a sikh. Who are you to judge another person lol? See how high status you vegan and vegetarians feel you are due to diet!
Do you think waheguru dies? If not what death of waheguru actually occurs when one consumes jhatka?
You argue veg has less senses, read what gurbani tells you about what the poor sugar cain goes through! You still have to jhatka veg go consume it whether it has 3 senses or 5.
So you eat for survival then to do bhagti? So you never enjoy your daal sabhji? EVER? Do you not practice your shakti? Do you do any form of combat? Do you know how to use your kirpan?
Bhagti and shakti make a Khalsa sikh.
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WJKK WJKFI don't care for your arguments about how to get protein, but you're spewing broscience. Your body can't process over a certain amount of protein - the reason why people carb cycle and change it up is to control their blood insulin levels to cut or bulk and also change carb intake to time a workout, account for volume increase or decrease or whether they're on a cut or a bulk. You can gain maximum amount muscle on minimum protein and a high carb diet, but you can also do the same on a lean bulk where you only gain a minimum amount of fat and the same amount of protein.
Gaining muscle is a very very slow process, but you can get strong as you gain weight (ie. get fat) quick. What people don't realize when they get strong and then cut and are disappointed that they don't have much muscle to show is they don't account for how much actual muscle it's naturally possible to gain in x time frame.
Also there is no such thing as healthy weight - that is what broscientists use to say something that doesn't mean anything at all. Stating your LBM/BF%, height, weight and deadlift/squat/bench/OHP will be a better way to tell if you're at a "healthy weight".
I always laugh when Punjabis try to justify their meat eating because they "lift" and want to "maximize gains". Fact is you don't have a basic understanding of nutrition and human physiology - once you've read up on it please come back and tell me whether or not you need to consume (X.Xprotein*bodyweight in lbs) lol.
This is kind of unrelated, but it's very relevant:
I eat meat because I hunt and jhatka. This was hukam. What do you think I should do with the poultry I shot?
Vegans and veggies argue their diets are spiritual lol, yet you all claim this scientist an that scientist.....i eat a balanced diet of everything.
Please stop telling sikhs they can't practice jhatka.
By healthy body weight, I meant Lean Body Mass. How can you not be of a healthy weight? I have been body building for over 10 years. Please do any search yourself to check the amount of protein you need to build muscle on a body builders diet.
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WJKK WJKFWJKK WJKF
Eating a vegan diet with high carbs may give you energy and a percentage of protein but no where near enough to build muscle and strength.
Are you sure you cant get enough protien on a vegan diet? because i have between 110 grans or protien and 120 grams every day, more than most people eating meat, i can show you on myfitnesspal also, and its quite easy. Beans, grain, oats, tofu, rice, pasta, thats more than 100 grams of protien in that (depending on portion size ofc, by its not hard) and you Can gain.muscle on a vegan diet, As long as your eating a surpluss of calories, substaicial protien and focusing on hypertrophy in the gym.
The way you imply that meat eaters are fighting obesity and cancer is comical to. It's carbs what make you fat, not meat.
firstly, its a proven fact you are more likely to be obese if you eat meat, even if your track your calories, and cancer and beart disease are proven to be directly linked to consomption of meat, stated by the world health organissation and experts in the field, if your too lazy to search them up i can provide links.
secondly carbs make you fat is a myth, vegetarians are fat becuase they have milk and cheese, milk is used to make a baby calf triple its weight within 6 months, so just imagine what impact it has humans, carbs dont make you fat thats a lie, JUST LOOK AT DURIAN RIDER, read the china study, carbs dont turn into fat thats a myth, dont believe every
This is due to the fact that if you don't use as many calories as you have eaten, the energy is stored by the body as fat. Veg is high on carbs and low on protein. Meat is low on carbs, high on protein. That's why many a vegetarian/vegan are fat because of to many carbs.
The mma fighter and especially the worlds strongest man are probably heavy duty pumped full of steroids even though they are vegan. You cannot put that much muscle on, in a vegan diet. It's just simple science. Mass yea, but not muscle. Mass and muscle are two different things.
I didn't mean by eating meat it will help you fight at all. What I meant was by having a balanced diet, the body is strong enough to fight. You can weight train all you want, but you won't get anywhere if your not eating right in terms of muscle gain and strength training. How many calories do you need to consume on a vegan diet to gain muscle? Because you need 1.5 grams of protein per Ib of body to build muscle.
Do you not eat for your taste buds? Do you not enjoy daal and have the extra roti? I eat meat and when I jhatka an animal. I consume it all. Yea I enjoy it, but I also enjoy eating daal too. When I jhatka an animal, I have to steady my emotion and jhatka with compassion. How do you think you would steady your emotion if it came to having to defend yourself from death by another person? If you have never experienced an emotion, it is very hard to try and feel it. Like how you feel when you lose a parent, brother or sister, you only know when you experience it.
Again, if your vegan be vegan. But don't tell me I should be a vegan. I won't tell you to be a meat eater either. There's benefits and disadvantages to both. If the governments tells me to be vegan, I will decline and carry on Hunting, practising how to use a rifle and how to use my kirpan.
The veg you consume is fertilised with the manure of animals too, from chickens to horses.
Please do not insult me by trying to call me lazy. You do not know me personally. We are brothers in faith. We do not need to insult one another even if we have different views. Waheguru is within all.
Obviously, I don't know your body mass, but if your consuming up to 120g of protein per day that's still not enough to BUILD muscle. What is your calorie intake and carb intake for that percentage of protein to be consumed? You need a 1.5g to 2g of protein per Ib of body weight to build muscle, not retain muscle.
Vegetarians are not fat because they eat loads of cheese and drink loads of milk. That's a huge assumption. It's carlorie and carb intake. It's a mix of EATING TOO MUCH and not exercising or being physical. As it is the same for a meat eater.
It was processed meats and red meat which was linked to cancer. Not unprocessed meat. Please do not misinterpret the fact. The experts now state that animal and full fat dairy fat is better than veg fats in reducing cholesterol and breaking down your own body fat as there are 4 sub groups of saturated fat. All not being unhealthy.
I can also remember the world health experts as you say advise that the old " Apple a day, keeps the doctor away" as wrong lol as the acidity within the apple is bad for your teeth!
Carbs making you fat are not a myth. Do not debunk everything you disagree with as a myth. Contemplate it atleast. If you drop you carbs per day, you will lose weight due to the body then have to use stored energy (fat) because as you said, there was less carb (energy) intake.
I am not obese. I am at a healthy weight with great muscle mass. My body fat is very low because I can see my abdominal muscles. Health wise I'm fit as a fiddle. I do not have cancer and I am not obese with the kirpa of the gurus hukam.
Where do you buy your food products from and how are they grown? Using which fertilisers and from what country? Do you grow your own veg? Where do you buy your rice from? Do you use animal by products? Play the tabla?
Exploitation of people and animals occurs every single split second. There is exploitation within everything here on this world. Nothing is pure and free from some form of pain from the person who picks the rice you consume to the person who made your belt or sewn your clothes. Only naam is pure.
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Actually food does help spirituality. Food does effect the brain, and causes consequences.. Learn about Sattvic/Rajas/Tamas guni foods, and how they effect our mind.
And I'm sure there are many vegans who are more stronger than the average omnivore.
WJKK WJKF
No, the average vegan isn't as strong as the person who eats a diet consisting of all food groups with a higher intake of protein.
Again, food helps your body and brain, like omega 3 from fish, protein from meat and iron from blood, calcium from milk and butter is now a better alternative than veg oils and full fat dairy like cheese, high quality fibre from veg and natural sugars and acids from fruit.
But no food has an affect on your soul. Only naam and your karma. Yes if you kill an animal cruelly it will affect your karma. The same as if you can't stop eating roti after roti with your favourite daal because it tastes so good.
Only naam can help you soul from the taints if karma, not daal, not meat, not dairy or any veg.
Please read sister:
ਮੁੰਦਾਵਣੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Mundhaavanee Mehalaa 5 ||
Mundaavanee, Fifth Mehl:
ਥਾਲ ਵਿਚਿ ਤਿੰਨਿ ਵਸਤੂ ਪਈਓ ਸਤੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਵੀਚਾਰੋ ॥
Thhaal Vich Thinn Vasathoo Peeou Sath Santhokh Veechaaro ||
Upon this Plate, three things have been placed: Truth, Contentment and Contemplation.
ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਕਾ ਪਇਓ ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਸਭਸੁ ਅਧਾਰੋ ॥
Anmrith Naam Thaakur Kaa Paeiou Jis Kaa Sabhas Adhhaaro ||
The Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam, the Name of our Lord and Master, has been placed upon it as well; it is the Support of all.
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਖਾਵੈ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਭੁੰਚੈ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਹੋਇ ਉਧਾਰੋ ॥
Jae Ko Khaavai Jae Ko Bhunchai This Kaa Hoe Oudhhaaro ||
One who eats it and enjoys it shall be saved.
ਏਹ ਵਸਤੁ ਤਜੀ ਨਹ ਜਾਈ ਨਿਤ ਨਿਤ ਰਖੁ ਉਰਿ ਧਾਰੋ ॥
Eaeh Vasath Thajee Neh Jaaee Nith Nith Rakh Our Dhhaaro ||
This thing can never be forsaken; keep this always and forever in your mind.
ਤਮ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਚਰਨ ਲਗਿ ਤਰੀਐ ਸਭੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪਸਾਰੋ ॥੧॥
Tham Sansaar Charan Lag Thareeai Sabh Naanak Breham Pasaaro ||1||
The dark world-ocean is crossed over, by grasping the Feet of the Lord; O Nanak, it is all the extension of God. ||1||
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WJKK WJKFbeing vegan does not make you weak, its a myth, the strongest man in the world was vegan and the one of the best ufc fighters is vegan, You can get more than enough protien from plant based foods which means the killing of animals in un necessary, people who eat meat today do it only to satisfy their taste buds and cannot see beyond that.
A high carb vegan diet is the richest diet as carbs and glucose arw what gives our body energy, Its our bodies preffered energy source, eating rice, pasta, bananas, oats, suger, all these things are fuel for our body, i Cycle, train muay thai and weight train on a weekly basis, eating meat doesnt make anyone more capable to fighting terrorists lol, in fact i think it would make us less a
capable as we would be too obese and fighting cancer and beart disease we wouldnt have time to think about helping others.
Im not calling for a change in karah parshad, ofc i want gurdwaras to use ethical sources, but i understans its hukam.
Im talking about changing the things in our diet which is not hukam, like serving chocolates, yogurts ans milk chai in langer, and turning more sikhs vegan.
Look veganism is growing right now and bc of the envirmonetal impacts, governments will soon have to force people to go vegan, if the sikhs are already vegan its more promotion for us.
Eating a vegan diet with high carbs may give you energy and a percentage of protein but no where near enough to build muscle and strength. The way you imply that meat eaters are fighting obesity and cancer is comical to. It's carbs what make you fat, not meat. This is due to the fact that if you don't use as many calories as you have eaten, the energy is stored by the body as fat. Veg is high on carbs and low on protein. Meat is low on carbs, high on protein. That's why many a vegetarian/vegan are fat because of to many carbs.
The mma fighter and especially the worlds strongest man are probably heavy duty pumped full of steroids even though they are vegan. You cannot put that much muscle on, in a vegan diet. It's just simple science. Mass yea, but not muscle. Mass and muscle are two different things.
I didn't mean by eating meat it will help you fight at all. What I meant was by having a balanced diet, the body is strong enough to fight. You can weight train all you want, but you won't get anywhere if your not eating right in terms of muscle gain and strength training. How many calories do you need to consume on a vegan diet to gain muscle? Because you need 1.5 grams of protein per Ib of body to build muscle.
Do you not eat for your taste buds? Do you not enjoy daal and have the extra roti? I eat meat and when I jhatka an animal. I consume it all. Yea I enjoy it, but I also enjoy eating daal too. When I jhatka an animal, I have to steady my emotion and jhatka with compassion. How do you think you would steady your emotion if it came to having to defend yourself from death by another person? If you have never experienced an emotion, it is very hard to try and feel it. Like how you feel when you lose a parent, brother or sister, you only know when you experience it.
Again, if your vegan be vegan. But don't tell me I should be a vegan. I won't tell you to be a meat eater either. There's benefits and disadvantages to both. If the governments tells me to be vegan, I will decline and carry on Hunting, practising how to use a rifle and how to use my kirpan.
The veg you consume is fertilised with the manure of animals too, from chickens to horses.
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WJKK WJKFLol do u know the implications of eating meat and fish and dairy?
There is a spiritual benifit, how can u find inner peace if your consuming torture and rape?
a balanced diet is bs, 14 out of the 15 major killers of humans is related to eating meat, so meat is not healthy and the world health organisation says meat is a carcinogenic, its ranked amonst ciggerates in terms of how bad it is for you. the reason you do not know this is because the meat industry is bigger than the oil industry, countrieis go to war for oil so imagine how brainwashed we are when it coms to meat.
Guru gave us the hukan of feeding the world when he said degh tegh fateh, do you know how inefficient the meat industry is? it takes 300 galleons of water and 20 kilos of grain to create on hamburger, meanwhile theres kids in africa and india who have no water or food to eat, they feed cows soy to get them big for the meat industry where we could have fed that soy to humans and ended world hunger.
And dont get me started on fish, They say
the way were fishing there are going to be fishless seas by the year 2048, this is not a conspiracy, its happening now.
Think of this on a practical level, This is the beauty of sikhi, Guru gave us an ethics based religion, we have to see whats happening to the world around us and how we can help, by Going vegan ur literally saving the planet. the meat industry causes 3x more global warming than the whole of the transport industry combined, think about that.
I think we need to talk about veganism before its too late to talk about anything else
Wjkk Wjkf
Thanks for the interesting facts....all valid points.
No food helps spirituality. Whether you consume meat, fish, dairy or veg. This food only helps the physical body and the brain. The only food which has a benefit to spirituality is naam.
If you consume only meat and nothing else, obviously this will have a bad affect on your diet. But I don't, the meat I consume is killed by my own hands. I eat meat probably once a week.
What you are saying about the meat industry is right. World hunger can be stopped at present and it could of been stopped within the time of our gurus. The reason why it's not stopped is because of the 5 chor what live and thrive within humanity. We as sikhs are sovereign king and queens within ourselves. If you can help someone or something for being vegan, great! But I wish to help via a different route. I wish for my children to be strong bodied to. Hence why my diet consists of all food groups. You cannot be as physically strong on a vegan diet as when being in a mixed food group diet which consists of a higher percentage of protein to carbs.
Fact is, the world, it's creatures and people are dying due to many reasons. Like how the meat industry fuels climate change, or world hunger due to colonisation, or war.
Our goal as sikhs is not to be vegan, but again if you wish to be so, be it. The gurus hukam was also to take up arms and train. What physical training or combat sport do you do veer/bhen ji? How can you talk about our guy sahibans hukam and then justify changing it? Kraa prashad is sacred and shouldn't be changed at all. The prashad before blessing is food with naam, then after the ardas we cut it with the kirpan? Why? This is what jhatka is, the prashad then becomes blessed and then distributed.
Today, we have a problem with terrorism. Now if you was in the London tube and a terrorist who was physically strong and determined to cause havoc, randomly hurting innocent people. Do you really think you would be able bodied and able minded to confront and give a good go? I'm not asking you to write your answer on here, but just ask yourself this question and answer yourself honestly.
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Different Journeys Toward God
in WHAT'S HAPPENING?
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Thankyou, will defo have a good read.