sikhiseeker

beautiful post veer mehtab singh ji

I cant agree more but you and other mods on this site have pathological hatred for people on the other side of argument ..... you know what I am talking about.

I'm not sure what you mean by this as I'm kinda new on here? Please elaborate

I don't understand why people think souls are only prescribed to animals and humans? Why can a soul not be prescribed into a Tree, then the leaf of a tree, or a flower, or a plant, all these things are living being what feed of the mother which is earth itself as we do, after it's cycle, it is reintroduced into the earth and then the cycle begins again- reincarnation. Maybe the new plant or flower when blooms is a different soul to the one before? when we pull out the flower from its roots separating its life giving earth, are we not taking its life? The same for a vegetable, all these things are living! Who are we to say that they do not feel the pain of death once we pull them from the ever nourishing earth?

Also, if we become vegetarian, is it ok to then use an animals carcass for instruments in the singing of divine shabads of Akal Purakh waheguru? If we are so disgusted of the consumption of flesh, how then can we justify banging a drum made from the skin of a goat, or the construction of a ranjit nagara, to sound a heavy beat when we triumph over a battle, which saw killing of humans each side none the less?

Life and soul is in creation itself, waheguru is in the hunter, waheguru is in the hunted. The whole creation of the earth is a living being, it has its cycle of death and rebirth. Everything has a soul in creation, it is all living.

Too crave for meat is the same to crave for your favourite lentil, for after all is it not the craving we should overcome? The craving is holding our spiritual development back, not the food item. It's the kaam, krodh, mo, lobh & hankar we should be rid of.

I don't understand why people think souls are only prescribed to animals and humans? Why can a soul not be prescribed into a Tree, then the leaf of a tree, or a flower, or a plant, all these things are living being what feed of the mother which is earth itself as we do, after it's cycle, it is reintroduced into the earth and then the cycle begins again- reincarnation. Maybe the new plant or flower when blooms is a different soul to the one before? when we pull out the flower from its roots separating its life giving earth, are we not taking its life? The same for a vegetable, all these things are living! Who are we to say that they do not feel the pain of death once we pull them from the ever nourishing earth?

Also, if we become vegetarian, is it ok to then use an animals carcass for instruments in the singing of divine shabads of Akal Purakh waheguru? If we are so disgusted of the consumption of flesh, how then can we justify banging a drum made from the skin of a goat, or the construction of a ranjit nagara, to sound a heavy beat when we triumph over a battle, which saw killing of humans each side none the less?

Life and soul is in creation itself, waheguru is in the hunter, waheguru is in the hunted. The whole creation of the earth is a living being, it has its cycle of death and rebirth. Everything has a soul in creation, it is all living.

Too crave for meat is the same to crave for your favourite lentil, for after all is it not the craving we should overcome? The craving is holding our spiritual development back, not the food item. It's the kaam, krodh, mo, lobh & hankar we should be rid of.

Bhai mehtab Singh, you inspire me in every post you write, I feel the guru has blessed you with such gian and the skill to write something in such a manner, it resounds in everyone who reads it, it makes you question your position with our guru, which is good as it humbles me and makes me think, hang on, I need to do this or change this about myself!

Thank you sir!

Bhai ji there is an old saying "Jeeo aur jeene do"

What you did (Marrying out of caste) is commendable.

Generally people like to play safe and follow tradition when it comes to child's marriage.

Love marriage and going against parents is definitely not Gurmat.

Brother, why would I embrace Christianity or Islam? I have no problem with my religion, it's perfect! Have you heard how ridiculous this sounds, your basically saying do what your mum and dad say, even though it's wrong and never mind what Akal Purakh said on that particular matter....have you ever heard of the sakhi of the young singh who's mother tried to stop him being beheaded from the Mughals? I'm sure you have, I wonder what this Mahaan shaheed would of thought about your view, maybe he, as you have defined should of listened to his mother, withdrew from the line and obeyed her wish?

Your willingness and relaxed manner for caste based marriage is to me somewhat unbelievable my brother, on the basis that it states clearly in the Shiri Guru Granth Sahib, which you quote in other posts you have made, of the no tolerance of caste? Brother do you partly agree with the guru or fully?

Also why give advice based on Shiri Guru Granth Sahib Ji if you don't follow it yourself, why then quote it's shabad, how can you fix someone else's problems using sikhi as your basis when you don't follow it fully yourself?

Also you stated that families try to stick to tradition and play safe when it comes to a child's marriage? Your only tradition, reet ravaajh should be sikhi!

It would be better, if you just said you partly belief in sikhi and your caste you hold close, as from what you say confuses me whether your a sikh or not. Either choose your caste and follow its tradition at the helm of parents, or choose sikhi, and live your life to the hukam of the guru and Akal Purakh, don't mix both, as you are intentionally diluting the religion I live for and would die for! Unite my brother, leave caste back in Brahmin society where it belongs.

I dont like this program. Why they got on a Sikhi channel just dont know. And they say everybody is equal no caste.

Whether we like or not fact is people say no difference in caste this that but end of day they will want the caste based marriages, unless its a love marriage. Another business that's all i can see.

I hear you sister, worst thing is a amrit dhari sister reads out the caste based engagement proposals? How daft!

Also please don't fink I'm mocking you, on the contrary, I wana try and help you.....have you asked Akal Purakh for their help or guidance in your ardas lately? Maybe before you had the dream?

True say

Thankyou my brother! Raj karega khalsa

Bhai sahib I didn't say its acceptable to me. I said the reason that there is a separation of people is because kids are constantly fed this bull**** from the beginning starting with their very own family. Slowly this leads them to stay within their own factions because they rather feel accepted in that particular environment.

Now its normal for this to be happening in India but even here in the West what I have seen I shared that with you. Here kids are kept in the same classes with the same policies for every student with the same teaching rules yet still they separate into their own groups. This should tell you that the problem isn't the outside world. It comes internally from families and yes songs too. The best I can do is do my own part in this world so atleast it doesn't spread anymore.

I believe this was not the case during Guru Sahibs times when the real Sikhi prevailed. But now there are many forces that want to break away Sikhs from their own fellow Sikhs. And they use castism as a method. Like look they didn't treat you good back in the days therefore leave Sikhi and embrace Islam or Christianity. Like I come from the so called lower caste and the amount of taunting from my own fam for taking Amrit is ridiculous. It begins in the family. But I appreciate your effort to teach your nephews about this. Hopefully they'll understannd what you were trying to do.

Veer ji, I'm happy you don't accept it firstly. Secondly even though I have been a victim of castism, why would I convert to Christianity or Islam? Sikhi is perfect. Your original post was basically, we should not talk about this, people will forget, from that we have established that you don't agree with it and that you will do what you can to stand against caste and help stamp it out. Also you mentioned you are from a low class, my brother, you are from ancestors who are the same as anyone's, no higher and no lower, equal! You are not from no low class at all. I salute your ancestors as you are my brother and we shall stand side by side! Let's teach our children, there is no place for caste in sikhi because the guru abolished it and if another person who claims their sikh and asks their caste, let our children samjha them how the sahibzade once spoke like a bolt of lightning cracked from the sky! I salute you my brother! Wjkk wjkf

I just need some guidance please.

I'm a manmukh Sikh. I do Simran etc often though (every day).

Lately I kept having dreams with the Hindu Goddess Durga in them. I spoke to my Hindu friend about it and she said it usually means its warning you of something to do with fertility or death...she was correct...I found out a few weeks later.

Now I'm having dreams with her again and I feel my attention going to her ... even though I still do Simran and turn to our Gurus all the time (many times throughout the day).

But I cant get her out of my mind. Whats going on?!

I feel like I need to start incoporating her when im doing my ardas/simran everyday.

Is this bad? What should I do? I'm not into Hinduism at all so this is confusing me! There is no way I would turn my back to Sikhi as I hope to become a Guru's Sikh one day.

Sister, I don't understand what you mean by " I spoke to my Hindu friend about it and she said it usually means its warning you of something to do with fertility or death...she was correct...I found out a few weeks later. " what did you mean?

Brother it's hard when you get to that level right! I was getting their myself but I then realised I was talking more English than panjabi as I live in a more English populated town. So I started to speak panjabi at any time I could. Especially with family at home, bro you live in Birmingham lol! Everything's on your door step! Don't be disheartened or embarrassed, just keep at it. A good thing to do is watch bhai jagraj singh from basics of sikhi on youtube and repeat the gurmukhi alphabet so the pronunciation comes back.....hopefully someone from bham can give you more specific help in your area but don't give up brother!

Also Dasgurka, you said that the higher and lower castes stay in their own communities.lol do you understand why this should be abolished. Because if that very reason! It's such a no brainer! The sikh religion has become hijacked by caste proud fools who don't understand the key points of what you need to do to be a sikh, they instead work against the principles and have created factions, I plead with you my brother, if this was not acceptable by none of our gurus and all the other bhagats like sheikh farid, bhagat kabir, bhagat Ravi das, sikh like bhai gurdas, bebe Mai bhago and bebe charan kaur, why is it acceptable to you? Can you really aspire to what your username states, Dasgurka? unite my brother!

I get it thank you for explaining. My brother and sisters also get asked the same question at school so now I understand what you meant. We just tell them not to hide it. And as I grew up in this community I am seeing a polarization of castes. The so called "lower castes" have their own group and the "higher castes" have stuck with their own. But I do not see any time of violence amongst them. At least not the new generation. They have better things to deal with. I'm not sure how it is there in UK.

I think it's slowly going away but it won't go away altogether.

But brother not hide what, your caste...it comes back to the same point. A sikh should have no caste. By the association of any particular caste and claiming to be sikh at the same time is wrong. I feel so strongly about this because it simply undermines sikhi. For anyone who claims to be a sikh, why would you be so relaxed in the dilution of the rehat what our guru' s and Akal purak gave, I don't understand why it's ok? The reason why I started this thread was to try and raise awareness and unity, but from the feedback it sounds like really caste is fine, the segmentation of sikhi is well nearly complete and accepted?

If I can ask you a question brother, if you stood in front of Shiri guru gobind singh rite now, would you have this same argument and tolerance for caste?

Wjkk wjkf. But Bhai sahib it's the families themselves who put this seed of castism and discrimination into the child's brain. They're the first ones that a kid learns from. If they stopped talking about it the kid wouldn't even know about it.

I have friend who told this to me. Not 1 but 2. The girl told me that their fam tells about it and when she asked her mom why do you guys do this (make deragatory) remarks about ppl from lower castes the reply that she got was that that they've been hearing it from their ancestors.

The stranger friend I ran into told me that its to keep on the same caste marriage thing going.

Personally I didn't know about it until I came to US. It's more prevalent in western countries than you may think.

But then I've also had some of the best friends who are jatts and they don't agree with it. But the families teach it first hand to the kids.

Veer ji, I may have misunderstood what you meant by saying we should stop talking about it. Here, in the u.k my nieces and nephews of 10 and 13 are asked what caste are you on school? I am at parent, I will teach my children that the guru's abolished caste, however what about the parents who teach their children what caste they are and also they are sikh? Thats still happens largely, it's not going to disappear. Again it has to be condemned. If it was your child who got asked what caste they were at such a young age, by a so called fellow sikh, would you not be concerned at the state of our religion? What would your advice be to your child? You must seem point, in this situation, how do you just simply not discuss it?

Top job....makes you proud!

I do not feel that caste is such a big issue in the Quom these days.

Caste discrimination occurred when I was younger, but is never seen now and good riddance. For instance when I was younger there was a pecking order in the Gurudwara about how close to Maharaj you could sit depending on your caste. This is unheard of nowadays.

There was a recent post (not sure to where it was shifted to - it was in the 'What's Happening' section) about double-standards of bhangra singers having homai about their caste in their songs and then making dharmic albums. This is just another way of how caste barriers have changed. Again when I was younger my father berated me wanting to sing (I am not a singer by the way!) just like the guys I saw on the (then) upcoming UK bhangra scene. He said that Jat boys should not be singing because that was the what lowly Mirasis did and it was be'izti to our biradari to ape them in that way. Fast forwards a few decades and attitudes had shifted.

I feel that the issue of marrying into one's caste is separate. Our Gurus never married out of caste.

Brother, you may think caste does not exist, i wish it didn't but your wrong. It affects so many people! The Bhangra topic was started by me, it's not a separate issue to sikhi, your father may have said to you x amount of years ago not to be a bhangra singer because it's embarrassing, but now what are the modern day limitations?

Brother, how can you suggest that marrying into caste is ok? I just don't understand where this sort of understanding comes from? Have you ever heard of the sakhi's of the Hindu hill rajehs who wanted to drink the holy nectar of Shiri Guru Gobind Singh Ji? This form of thinking is diluting the religion I hold close.

Interesting thing about Bhangra, most of its origins seem to be from dhadhi vaar started by 6th master to instill warrior spirit in Sikhs.

Keep that perspective in mind..

Brother, I have no problem with Bhangra, my problem is with the lyrics of castes in bhangra songs at the same time showing a visual of the khalsa? My issue is with these people who are contradicting themselves by singing dharmic geet straight after. I remember Shiri Guru Hargobind Singh ji everyday, I understand why the dhadi jatha was started, so sing the sakhi's of our shaheed babeh and bibian, inspiring the sikhs! How can you compare that, to todays caste based bhangra songs? Theres no comparison. The perspective that should be kept in mind is sikhi has no caste.

UkLondonSingh, brother well said! I agree with everything you said! Slowly but surely, the khalsa will see its true renaissance, how the guru and akal purak waheguru intended it to be!

I started the thread to make readers aware of a new Sikh matrimonial website in UK.

That's it !

Whether they want to marry someone within caste or not, is their (mostly parents) decision.

You had your choice now let them choose.

Money is mostly top priority, otherwise there are plenty of prospective brides & grooms in each caste or religion All Over The Globe.

Brother, I have nothing against you, but my problem is what you just stated... Its not a "sikh matrimonial website" in my sikhi there is no caste!? You sound so passionate about sikhi in various different posts however why be so relaxed about caste? This is simply not a sikh website. It is a matrimonial site for various castes? Where does the sikhi come into it? I get sick of this very point. You cant be sikh and have a caste.

unfortunately there are also parents who opt out of disciplining their children- perhaps seeing the chance to relax and sit back while their child runs riot and spoils the atmosphere for others . in the old days, most parents would be too ashamed to let that happen in public - maybe its the western disease of bestfrienditis - wanting to be the childs best friend instead of a parent, it just amounts to lack of respect for our guruji. and this week I'm seriously considering not going to the gurdwara as its more peaceful at home and I can just put on one of the Sikh channels

Wjkk wjkf,

Yes, again i agree with you sister on the disciplining of a child has become something to question, but at the same time sometimes a child can be a right little monster at the best of times. But still I feel it' s no excuse.

Sister, you should go to the gurdwara this weekend, dont stay at home because if then no change will take place. Like Shiri Guru Nanak Dev Ji said to the sants in the Himalayas, " you dont like the way in which the world runs down there so you stay up here out of everyone's way, so then how can you be really spreading gods message".

So dont sit at home, go to have darshan of our guru and united we can tackle this issue. Do you thing the leaflet is an idea what would work sister?

Pretty simple. Stop talking about castism and it'll go away. Just like the race issue for African Ameircans. The more you talk about it the more it spreads.

I dont agree with you on that one brother. If you simply leave something which is happening in families it grows because the younger generation get fed the brainwashing material. You can only tackle it, by talking about it and condemning it. If people did this in there families and in the media, it would inspire others to follow. To not talk about it, it then allows the same caste marriages and the all round same caste issues that "were better than you" wjkk wjkf

Mehtab singh ji, I salute you my brother!!! Other brothers and sisters....please give your thoughts and show your support!

Thanks for for your reply, I feel that people should react to this sort of thing more whole heartedly. For example the meat issue raises so many questions/debates and arguments. But when someone promotes caste and then sing dharmic geet with our gurus khalsa behind them, why is it ok? Why do sikhs not condemn such people? Why do caste references have to be sung? People on the various sikh channels always say that sikhs are now united under the banner of great sikhs like Bhai Rajoana and the issue of 1984, in essence thats true because we all want these issues to be resolved, but sikhs united, really? People argue about the meat issue, when I feel the caste issue is the main problem in our kaum today. We all know that sikhi is not the harborer of caste, however we who call ourselves sikhs harbour caste and do not do enough to kick it out. People like the above mentioned do promote caste, fact! They are in the media after all! It would be so commendable if one such artist made a stand and said I'm going to stop using caste references in my songs and we sikhs need to be one kaum, one body, one khalsa, when we all really unite, there will be no issue the sikh kaum will not be able to fight and resolve!

(New)- I totally understand where your coming from. When your kids start throwing a tantrum, people turn to look at you and give you dirty looks lol. But to be honest, I'm going to try and plead to you that the rule should not be relaxed on the basis of a distinction of a child. Reason being because if a child does not cover their head, it's still beadbi. Beadbi is a serious matter because never mind the sangat, it's against our Guru. I feel that in this instance, a child rather than to be permitted to not cover their head, should be taken out of the darbar and disciplined informatively that they can only enter the gurdwara with their head covered, this should be done firmly every time the child takes it off. Also, its not just the mothers problem to deal with when in the darbar. The father should help and other family members if present. This is one of the basic rules for a gurdwara and I feel up and down the country this beadbi occurs because we as a community have become too relaxed with the rehat. When the gurdware invite school kids to the for R.E, they are told that everyone, young and old should cover their head. We don't then say "lil toddlers are ok and are exempt from this rule". If for example, Shiri Guru Gobind Singh was physically sitting in the palki when we went on sundays divan, would the same exemption apply? This is the same equivalent which many in our community have lost, that Shiri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the physical form of our 10 gurus, the most basic of respect should be given from all, especially us, calling ourselves sikhs of the guru.

Show's are generally meant for entertainment, Sangattv wants more viewers & sponsors so they went with the norm.

I don't think there would be many willing to marry out of caste, unless a person drives Ferrari.

In a market place you can only pick what is on offer !

Anyways good luck to all.

So should we all go along with caste, or if we really believe in sikhi and its teaching, try to do everything in our power to kick it out where it has no place? I myself am not married through caste, also neither my wife or I have a Ferrari. Rather than promote caste based marriage, should we not rally to marry within sikhi itself with no basis on caste?

Also an entertainment show is something like "kaun banega gur sikh pyara" on The Sikh Channel. The Matrimonial Show is what it's title states,

Caste is wrong! You cant have a caste and claim to be sikh. Yet we believe in caste and then add singh and kaur to our names....and to think the shaheed gave their lives for this name.