sikhiseeker

the fact of the matter is, times have changed and the milk industry has become a business, which means that cows are exploited to provide milk and chocolate, and i wasnt really question karah parshad, im talking about when they hand out quality save chocolates or cha in gurdwaras, thats what im against because its so unnecessary but the implications of doing so are so bad, how can we justify a cow being raped every year and then it gives birth and the baby calf is ripped away and killed right after birth because the humans want the milk from the cow and the calf isnt efficient.

Also its not like milk and chocolate are good for us anyway

Mate, why don't you go back to India first and go and sort out all them hungry cows left on the streets roaming around eating rubbish and then turn your enthusiasm on all the stray dogs what continuously get kicked and told to get lost while they look for left overs to eat.

Then we can talk about veganism.

Sikhs do not need to be vegan. There is no spiritual benefit or gain. Just eat healthy within a balanced diet of meat/fish veg and dairy to be fit, be smart and able bodied to fight. Compassion within all food groups a big must!

Simple.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Sure:

http://igurbani.com/?shabadid=3955&id=47165

Sikhi begins here. I think perhaps it is being missed what a Sikh is. The ideal Sikh sells his/her head to the Guru. Even upon selling that head to the Guru, he/she commits that if the Panth needs their life for a cause, they will willingly and without hesitation give it. It is a very high standard and Guru Sahib has outlined it to be sharper than a sword's edge and thinner than a hair.

Gursikhs such as Sant Jarnail Singh, Shaheed Bhai Fauja Singh - they all were householders. Countless Gursikhs gave their lives in recent history that were householders. They had Shabad di kamai. Whatever your views on Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh, his Jail Chittian are a testament to a Gursikh's commitment to the Guru - was he not a householder?

There are multiple examples just in the city I live where bihungums have been overcome with kaam and had affairs with women. Merely walking the bihungum path has not provided them any respite from feelings of kaam.

Why is this topic still being pursued? If celibacy was a superior path, then why would Guru Sahib have advocated a householder life, or at least spoken of celibacy being superior in pursuing Gurmat? Stop promoting celibacy as anything superior - in the end, an individual must face the 5 vikaars and defeat them to obtain results in Gurmat. Whether that be as a celibate or a householder, the fight is internal, not external. Both are subject to them and the only means to overcome them for a Sikh is through practice of Gurmat. Either path can be faced with any and all of the 5 vikaars, and either, through God's Grace, can overcome them and become a true Sikh.

Even the dialog captured in Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Sahib are telling of Guru Sahib's contempt for this celibate arrogance, when Guru Sahib straight up dissed Bhangar Nath about celibacy and associated ego:

੪੦ : ਸਿੱਧਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਗੋਸ਼ਟ

ਖਾਧੀ ਖੁਣਸਿ ਜੁਗੀਸਰਾਂ ਗੋਸਟਿ ਕਰਨਿ ਸਭੇ ਉਠਿ ਆਈ।

ਪੁਛੇ ਜੋਗੀ ਭੰਗਰ ਨਾਥੁ ਤੁਹਿ ਦੁਧ ਵਿਚਿ ਕਿਉਂ ਕਾਂਜੀ ਪਾਈ।

ਫਿਟਿਆ ਚਾਟਾ ਦੁਧ ਦਾ ਰਿੜਕਿਆ ਮਖਣੁ ਹਥਿ ਨ ਆਈ।

ਭੇਖੁ ਉਤਾਰਿ ਉਦਾਸਿ ਦਾ ਵਤਿ ਕਿਉ ਸੰਸਾਰੀ ਰੀਤਿ ਚਲਾਈ।

ਨਾਨਕ ਆਖੇ ਭੰਗਰ ਨਾਥ ਤੇਰੀ ਮਾਉ ਕੁਚਜੀ ਆਹੀ।

ਭਾਂਡਾ ਧੋਇ ਨ ਜਾਤਿਓਨਿ ਭਾਇ ਕੁਚਜੇ ਫੁਲੁ ਸੜਾਈ।

ਹੋਇ ਅਤੀਤੁ ਗ੍ਰਿਹਸਤਿ ਤਜਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਉਨਹੁ ਕੇ ਘਰਿ ਮੰਗਣਿ ਜਾਈ।

ਬਿਨੁ ਦਿਤੇ ਕਛੁ ਹਥਿ ਨ ਆਈ ॥੪੦॥

All the yogis getting irritated grouped together and came forward to have a debate.

Yogi Bhangar Nath asked, (Why have you put vinegar in milk?)

The spoiled milk cannot be churned into butter.

How have you put off yogic garb and attired yourself in a household way.

Said Nanak, (O Bhangar Nath, your mother-teacher is unmannerly)

She has not cleansed the innerself of your body-pot and your clumpsy thoughts have burnt your flower (of knowledge which was to become fruit).

You, while distancing and repudiating house hold life, go again to those householders for begging.

Except their offerings you dont get anything.

ਜੋਗੀ ਈਰਖਾ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਸਾਰੇ ਚਰਚਾ ਕਰਨ ਨੂੰ ਉਠ ਆਏ।

ਭੰਗਰ ਨਾਥ ਜੋਗੀ ਪੁੱਛਣ ਲੱਗਾ ਤੂੰ ਦੁੱਧ ਵਿਚ ਕਾਂਜੀ ਕਿਉਂ ਪਾ ਦਿੱਤੀ ਹੈ?।

(ਹੁਣ ਤਾਂ) ਦੁੱਧ ਦਾ ਮਟਕਾ ਫਿੱਟ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ, ਰਿੜਕਣ ਨਾਲ ਮੱਖਣ ਕੀ ਨਿਕਲਣਾ ਹੈ? (ਭਾਵ ਸੰਨਿਆਸ ਦੇ ਚਾਟੇ ਵਿਚ ਸੰਸਾਰੀ ਰੀਤ ਦੀ ਕਾਂਜੀ ਪਾ ਦਿੱਤੀ ਹੈ, ਹੁਣ ਗਿਆਨ ਮੱਖਣ ਨਹੀਂ ਨਿਕਲੂ ਤੇ ਨਾ ਹੀ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਹੋਵੇਗੀ।

ਉਦਾਸੀ ਭੇਖ ਲਾਹਕੇ (ਤੂੰ) ਫਿਰ ਕਿਉਂ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਦੀ ਰੀਤਿ ਚਲਾ ਦਿੱਤੀ ਹੈ?

(ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ) ਨਾਨਕ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੇ ਭੰਗਰ ਨਾਥ! ਤੇਰੀ ਮਾਂ ਕੁਚੱਜੀ ਸੀ (ਅਥਵਾ ਤੇਰੀ ਬੁੱਧਿ ਖਰਾਬ ਹੈ)।

(ਉਸਨੇ ਰਿਦੇ ਦਾ ਭਾਂਡਾ ਧੋ) ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਤਾ (ਭੇਖ ਰੂਪੀ) ਕੁਚੱਜੇ ਭਾਉ ਨਾਲ ਦੁੱਧ ਨੂੰ ਸਾੜ ਬੈਠੀ ਹੈ। (ਸਤਰ ੭ ਵਿਚ ਦੱਸਿਆ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਉਹ ਕੁਚਜਾ ਭਾਵ ਕੀ ਹੈ-ਗ੍ਰਿਸਤ ਤੋਂ ਅਤੀਤ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਫੇਰ ਗ੍ਰਿਹਸਤੀਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਮੰਗ ਖਾਣਾ।)

ਵਿਰਕਤ ਹੋਕੇ ਗ੍ਰਿਹਸਤ ਨੂੰ ਛਡ ਕੇ ਫੇਰ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ (ਸੰਸਾਰੀਆਂ) ਦੇ ਘਰ ਮੰਗਣ ਚੜ੍ਹ ਪੈਂਦੇ ਹੋ (ਤੇ ਮੂੰਹ ਨਾਲ ਗ੍ਰਿਹਸਤੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਰਦੇ ਹੋ)।

(ਤੁਹਾਨੂੰ ਇਹ ਪਤਾ ਹੋਣਾ ਚਾਹੀਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ) ਦਿਤੇ ਬਿਨਾਂ (ਕਿਸੇ ਨੂੰ) ਕੁਛ ਨਹੀਂ ਮਿਲਦਾ।

https://searchgurbani.com/bhai_gurdas_vaaran/vaar/1/pauri/40

WJKK WJKF

GREAT POST! Fully agree with you!

When we were kids, the babey had no qualms about disciplining or even slapping children who were misbehaving. Now its a free for all and many children are running around causing havoc. The parents are not setting a great example and can be found on phones during the Ardaas, Guru Sahib giving Hukam and even try and talk louder than the kirtanis!! The Satkar and fear is missing.

Most parents think it's fine because thei there and doing their bit....while their kids run round like lil sh*ts playing as if we were in a playground.

My parents would of gave me a swift punch in the rib if I did masti, we just knew not to mess in the darbar. We would go and play outside or sit in the langar hall.

When my kids were really small, like two years old, my wife and I would teach em not to make noise or mess about while kirtan, katha or hukamnama was being spoken. They learnt well and behave real good and enjoy going gurdwara. If my youngest is abit restless, my wife or I will just take her into the langar hall, let her settle and come back into the darbar.

I can understand some women may not have enough support when they have more than one child from their husbands as due to panjabi manly culture. This in no way singles out women point being. The men are to be blamed equally.

I don't understand why here in the uk the parents allow their kids to run riot. Thy have to behave in school and in school assembly, why not in the gurus darbar?

WJKK WJKF

one thing that nags me is kids running around with nothing covering their heads. Since when were children exempt to the satkar of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji....I did raise this on here few years back but most sangat on here very quickly dismissed it as not a big issue, as their ownly kids lol?

WJKK WJKF

No one needs to be celibate. It doesn't do anything. Live a life of ghrisi and control Kaam within your marriage. Ragi doesn't mean monk, it means someone who can sing within raag as per gurbani. Spiritualism can be gained by the male or female, young or old within the life of ghristi. The devotion is within sewa of humanity and creation itself.

Also, by mediation of naam one achieves a heightened spiritual awakening. Naam being the whole of gurmantar. For the intelligent who can recite with true faith a whole sukhmani sahib Ji da path or to those with less ability who faithfully jap one word "waheguru" , spirituality canbe gained and one can gain mukhti.

There is only one maryada.

so you kind of drawing a parallel between english and Jatts and scottish/irish/welsh with non jatt .....say if an English dude wins a gold medal then he's English but if a Scottish dude wins then he's British?

truth is our history is jampacked with people with diverse backgrounds, cultures and languages ...even panj piare is a prime example if you want this rebrushed history and punjabiat dominanace to fade, we have to let the world know that we have that diversity.

WJKK WJKF

I have to disagree with you on this one penji. Firstly, I'm not a Jatt, neither any of the other castes as I am a Sikh. The only place my ancestry has, is to make sure my kids do not some how marry back into family. That's why they will know of their family name. I wish to marry my children within the Sikh panth, not within caste.

The whole point of the diversity of the panj pyare was to unite people and breakdown caste barriers and create one unit, the Khalsa. Hence why when one chaks Amrit they denounce their ancestry.

Ghuggi in the video talks about ithiaas, then goes on to then glorify jatts. This is in no way Gurmat. Only manmat. When someone is wrong, it's simply wrong, to then make excuses is counterproductive for the panth.

Your point of Guru Nanak Dev Ji doing kethibari doesnt represent anything to do with jatts, it simply demonstrates that he practiced what he preached, naam japna, kirat karo and vaandh chako.

The parallel of the whole Brits/English/Irish.......this does not reflect the facts of the Hindu Varna. The national identities are as a whole of the Christian faith and the Irish will be able to marry within the Scottish etc......

Within sikhi, you have one group claiming a large part of history as being victorious due to their blood. This is wrong. We should say it's wrong and move forward as per gurmat. No caste group has any physical/spiritual monopoly on the progression of sikhi. As it was through sacrifices based on Gurmat and the label of the Khalsa Sikh, not Jatt Sikh, dalat sikh....or any other caste based Sikh.

If Guru Nanak never promoted his caste and in his tenth form initiated anyone to become Khalsa and stand equal, who is Ghuggi to then attach labels on sikhi's Mahaan shaheed and Mahaan Sikh? Who is he to call Baba Deep Singh Ji a Jatt and not a Khalsa of Shiri Guru Gobind Singh?

Again, this is wrong and should be highlighted, not accepted and for excuses to be made.

The point he makes is that those mahapurakhs of the past were the true mark of manhood that is called 'jatt' not these bandars who have zero love for Gurbani , sikhi or their homeland... I would aspire to be a jatt of Guru Nanak's description in Bani who plants the seed of naam in the fields of my mind ...Main point was the man is thinking about heritage of sikhi going forward and the state of sikhi in its heartland ...what he said about permission process and censorship by the state on dharmic films is true . I mean they try to tell us that we cannot speak the truth about mughals for fear of muslims now ....we cannot speak the truth of the 1980s and 1990s because it will offend the hindus of punjab ...If they are truly Punjabi they would have love and respect for Sant ji and Guru Sahiban...

The only thing I can see is making films outside and bombarding the internet and Indian market from the outside

No, that is wrong. If you are stating that his point is that someone like Shaheed Baba Deep Singh was a true mark of that eras manhood and he represented the jatt is totally wrong.

It is statements like these what cause issues. It hasn't got nothing to do with that he was from jatt ancestry, it has everything to do with that he accepted Amrit from Guru Gobind Singh himself and represented nothing but sikhi and the Khalsa.

Do you think Guru Nanak Dev Ji represented the manhood of that era of the Bedi caste?

Ghuggi is only trying to highlight caste supremacy.

Also, in gurbani, where jatt is written, it represents the farmer sowing the seed, not the jatt caste for jatt supremacy. It's a metaphor for all SIKHS to sow the seed of faith. So why would you want to be a "jatt of Guru Nanak" and not a sikh if Guru Nanak?

Gurbani also says we are all gypsies, as we all mangh from waheguru.

Ghuggi has done a "jat classic" in that short video and no one should underestimate the damage such narratives evoke.

Jat classic = if a Sikh of jat background does anything of any significance, then mention that he is a jat. If a Sikh of a non-jat background does anything of significance, he will simply be known as a Sikh or Mr Singh.

This has been going on for generations. Fast forward to 2016. The outcome is that an uneducated pendu is brainwashed into thinking only jats have contributed to Sikh history.

Couldn't be more wrong.

Spot on. Hit the nail in its head.

Thank you ji, I've also cleared my misunderstandings in the my last post. I will watch it all.

You know what you should do, if you feel strongly about it, tell him on social media.

WJKK WJKF

To raise the caste issue with the older generation is a no win situation. Only the ones what accept Gurmat will understand. It is them who are strongly attached to it and will have to deal with it. I'm more worried about the future of sikhi, not the past. Hence why my protest is on here. I don't teach my kids about caste supremacy, just equality.

So if the younger generation can read my protest on here's do read our correspondence....it's a good thing.

That's the only reason why I post on here.

You are probably right in what you are saying Sikhiseeker ji as I've not watched the whole video, only the beginning bit. I watched more in the second one.

So I apologise to you. Also I have deleted something I wrote which was uncalled for as I thought you were belittling me for merely complimenting goodness in somebody.

Sorry ji if I hurt your soul.

Bhul chuk maf karna ji

I still think the more we tell these singers not to sing rubbish and more meaningful songs that don't sway youngsters to negativity, the better. I've seen on their FB profiles that quite few have started doing that.

WJKK WJKF

You do not have to apologise to me, I am no one important or of any status and my soul goes unhurt lol. I myself have tainted my soul with the sins of my karma and I alone have taken my soul on a detour route from mukhti, I'm trying to re-route but I lose the signal many a time lol.

The singers will always sing songs what sell because their just singers. It's our parcharaks like Bhai Jagraj Singh Ji who will shine the jot of Guru Nanak because it's blinding. Don't buy Gippys film, support basicstosikhi or sikh pow.

But in the video Paji or penji, he is talking about the system in Punjab and opposing what you are saying, so I don't understand what you are debating. He's saying that the problems in Punjab needs to be sorted out, unless I watched a different video.

I agree with you the bit about Punjab problems are not any better by singers singing songs about shraab and this that and the other. I think that contributes to it, because the youngsters follow these singers.

I've mentioned this in another post, a while ago. I've even messages singers myself to stop singing these songs and tell them on their social media. But if somebody does say or do something good then I say it.

If we encourage these changes and positive aspects of them, then they will feel like doing more movies and songs for the benefit of the youngsters. If we don't support them on their positive work, then how will anything progress?

You see it's media like cinema and songs that send out positive messages and awareness that youth and people are more likely to respond to. I think people are getting fed up of the same old chaklo raklo songs and movies now too. So I'm trying to support something good only. Hope you understand.

WJKK WJKF

penji, I have quoted the video posted by jkvlondon so we're on the same hymn sheet.

I agree with all you said above, but after you have watched all the above video, please comment on what you hear. I personally think he lets himself down after 3:45, this shows he misunderstands what it means to be a Khalsa Sikh of Guru Nanak and all he previously stated is undone as he boasts for caste supremacy. I am against this 100% and do not make any apologies. If a child makes a mistake, you samjhaa them for the better. You do not let them carry on making the mistake. Therefore when someone taints sikhi with their own agenda or maan, they should be corrected within the guidelines of the maryada and sikhi, not allowed to carry on.

My point is, if gippy tomorrow makes the sequel to Jatt James Bond, the film Ardas, it's message and point then becomes undone as the producer is a contributor to the very issue he is complaning about. If he tomorrow accepts Amrit, or even stops anti sikh media and focuses on one sikhi, one unit, one body, I would support him 100%

Ghuggi is very knowledgeable about sikh itihaas and is I feel trying to get people engaged to learning about sikhi and trying to protect our virsa ...so I was not surprised at his role

plus I can never imagine a bibi wearing one, not that I've witnessed at least.....

Lol Pra, might just happen sooner rather later. You can need say never.

Your right aswell, the pag with starch on it does lose it's satkar, but I think the satkar can only be present if the sikh (male or female) has satkar for the gurus pyaari roop in the first place.

I find some Nihang Singh what tie HUGE dumalla out of satkar alil misguided. If something so big is gonna affect your physical fighting, it's just unpractical and like in sheikh farids bani, we shouldn't be afraid if getting dirt on our pag, because we will all be dirt very soon.

To sum up what I think: Khalsa roop satkar first has to begin with satkar of Maryada within the insaan male/female.

Hopefully the sikh who ties the starched turban may understand why it may be deemed as inappropriate to the guru roop.

I'm guilty of wearing a patka, it's hard wearing a pag when in the gym but I guess this is just an excuse right. I guess a dumalla would be better suited, but I have yet to master the dumalla tying technique.

Bla bla bla blaa. I think you are just looking out for things to argue over.

When was the last time you focuses on yourself?

He is not my "beloved Ghuggi", sounds more like yours the way you are analysing every weakness of somebody. I guess it's difficult for somebody of your " high spiritual status" to accept that everybody is God's creation and that only people like you are perfect hey?

I tend to see where somebody has done something good for somebody and don't go on and on about somebody's weaknesses, because do you know why?

Because Guru ji has graced me to stop and think about myself first and see my own weaknesses, before I get all hypocritical about others and their spiritual journeys.

I don't believe in caste, and don't encourage it either. So what I complimented some good work. Get over yourself will you and see some goodness in people too. But I guess that hurts to compliment somebody for anything they do.

I'm not one of those people who give the all "eh nai ida, oh nai Ida" on the internet, then in real when off the pc mix with everybody.

If you don't want to see their movies, then don't, but I'm not going to isolate myself from the world, but to integrate with them, so tough.

Penji, I haven't singled you out ever in any topic, this particular topic nor replied so rudely to any of your opinions, like you said, I have my own opinion but I try and base it on Maryada because my own opinion is flawed. I quoted you earlier because you were the topic poster.

I have highlighted only what I saw in the video and against Maryada and refer it back to my original point. Not to argue, but to open debate.

I have not said anywhere that I am perfect or a gret sikh? I have many sins to which I will account for.

However, the position panjab is in, is due to many of our own people. Not just the government. The people mentioned in my post are contributors to the "panjabi culture" therefore they are to blame aswell. Not to be venerated as great "role models".

WJKK WJKF

Nah, just people who taint sikhi with contradiction.

WJKK WJKF

Veer I think the pag makes no difference. But the person does. Majority of young people tie a pag and then shave their dhaari, I have more of a issue with that because either keep kesh and wear the pag and grow within your faith, or just cut your kesh (and dhaari) and don't wear the pag.

Lol has nobody actually heard what your beloved ghuggi has to say about his beloved jattism? I agreed with everything he said up until 3:45 where he goes on and on and on about "JATT" even calling our mahaan shaheed Baba Deep Singh a jatt? Do none of you have a problem with that? Do you think Baba Deep Singh ji referred himself to be a Sandhills jatt or a Khalsa of guru Gobind Singh? When someone accepts Amrit they leave all ties with their ancestry yet still these mahaan sikh are chained to being a "jatt" yet some posters say ghuggi has good knowledge about ithiaas, maybe he should learn why the ithiaas happend and what sikhi is.

I love the way most of you forgot to mention that.

Again, back to my point- people like gippy and jokers like ghuggi need to sort out their hypocrisy before they can start preaching about sikhi?

Did no one see the bottle of "jatt whiskey" in that clip next in line to pics of our shaheed?

Sikhi has no place for caste supremacy, only the ones who believe in their caste over sikhi create this whole superiority thing.

Please give me any ithiaas, gurbani shabad or quote from the rehat Maryada where it states one should believe in the superiority of ones former ancestry.

WJKK WJKF

If people like gippy made a real change in their personal life I agree with the above an would support him ...but il wait and see if he release "jatt James Bond 2" first....the usual cycle is make daft films/songs against everything sikhi, then make a dharmic geet/film....then make another daft film/song!

Watch this space

WJKK WJKF

People like gippy go on and on promoting everything but sikhi, like their caste supremacist views and the whole sharan/Balle balle scene, yet to make more money they being these sort of films out and once again contradict everything they stand for. Just like Diljit Dosanj and many others. Majority of people ignore this fact.

Mate, I don't want to be a part of some 'Sikh Clean up B team' for the disastrous consequences of white man faffing around in lands they have no business being in, and that for purely selfish, greedy reasons that in itself has led to God knows how many people out there dying one way or another.

Whatever happened in Paris, the sullah body count in the countries they've destabilised is infinitely more enormous. How are people going to do that and not expect retaliation??

The number one reason for the phenomenal growth of jihadism isn't any mullahs, but goray and their stupid foreign policies. Let them go through what they have to to learn to keep their pale backsides at home in future - for everyone's sake.

You reap what you sow man.

WJKK WJKF

Veer, I understand where your coming from and the points on why your opinion is what it is.

Your right, we do need to be one Khalsa kaun, can't agree with you more on that.

However, politics of this world in majority only feed the 5 vices of men and women in power.

We as sikhs need to separate ourselves from the politics and only fight for dharma and the innocent.

Just how when sikhs complained to Dhan Dhan Nihang Shiri Guru Gobind Singh Mahraj ji about Dhan Dhan Baba Khanaiya Ji giving water to the fallen enemy in the battlefield, when summoned to the court of our guru and asked why, his reply was true sikhi, the essence of out dharma, excluding any objection and acting upon just sikhi.

Our history is decorated with such mahaan shaheed like Shaheeh Bhai Taru Singh giving their life's for someone else, how can we as Khalsa sit at home while a war would be fought.

The sikhs what bacame shaheed in ww2 did not simply die in vain brother. Those shaheed did the same shaheedi as our other shaheed, as they died fighting for the the freedom and injustice against the Jews and other minorities like the 1.5 million Romanian Gypsies what were murdered. They didn't fight for the British. They fought for again Dharma and justice.

My point being that let's separate politics and see this as how we should. We're only here now, a Guru ka Khalsa should never stand back.

Many English men who fought in ww2 would have obtained mukhti, as they fought valiantly and gave the ultimate petha, death for liberation of someone else on a battlefield. I'm sure you have read the glorious Zafaranama, listen how our guru writes about the soldiers what fought. A soldier is not a soldier if they sit at home when a war is beating fought, like our mother mata mai bhago demonstrated to us men!

Mate, I don't want to be a part of some 'Sikh Clean up B team' for the disastrous consequences of white man faffing around in lands they have no business being in, and that for purely selfish, greedy reasons that in itself has led to God knows how many people out there dying one way or another.

Whatever happened in Paris, the sullah body count in the countries they've destabilised is infinitely more enormous. How are people going to do that and not expect retaliation??

The number one reason for the phenomenal growth of jihadism isn't any mullahs, but goray and their stupid foreign policies. Let them go through what they have to to learn to keep their pale backsides at home in future - for everyone's sake.

You reap what you sow man.

WJKK WJKF

veer ji, the politics will always be the instigation of war and crime against humanity, however their will always inevitably be victims.

I myself cannot turn my face on the innocent children who have been bombed and have been left ophaned or the many, many people who have left their homes and possessions as once my family did. If I can help, I will as it's my duty as a sikh irregards of the political games played and the ethnicity/ religion of the victim.

We ask for sarbhat da bhalla in our ardas to waheguru. We should also act on this, and instill it when it is needed, the time is now for us to be judged on our karma.

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I disagree with the opinions above. People have to be treated on a one to one basis.

The Khalsa should never stand back, justice for an innocent is a must. For the Khalsa, the colour is irrelevant on choosing sides, as is the religion. It's simply fighting for justice and humanity and the right to live under the land of the law with your own faith.

Islamic terrorism needs to be fought and defeated, however that doesn't mean all Muslims follow the terrorists doctrine or are terrorists.

Read our history and take inspiration on how our guru sahibans reacted and dealt with the same situation in a different period of time. Our guru is still right here with us, do we as sikhs really think by standing back our guru would be proud of his Khalsa watching innocent lives being murdered?

I doubt it very much!

WJKK WJKF

Sangat ji, just put BritAsia on and watch the many, many so called sikhs on there day to day what dishonour the name of sikhi....or just put sangat channels matrimonial show on, and have the "sikh women" read reference after reference of caste based marriage searches.

Blame the root cause, panjabi culture and castism.

I was not talking about partition.

However, this topic has gone way off topic.

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Indias independence goes hand in hand with the partition of India. The British have a major role in this......

It's almost been 70 years since India has had independence, and still Indians moan about how they were robbed.

Yet they are very different quiet about how a lot of the current elite of India benefitted and aided the British in the loot whilst they also profited.

Even to this day there are Indians who are looting India and putting their ill gotten wealth into tax havens set up by those dastardly white people.

WJKK WJKF

Veer/penji, 70 years is not along time at all. When India go "Indpendence" my family had to leave all their property both business and personal homes, all their possessions and the places they called their own. My grandmother walked with nothing but the clothes on her back and her children from Lahore to patiala. My grandmother said that the British soldiers just watched while they were in constant danger. If it wasn't for the Gurkhas and their own sikhs protecting them, they would of certainly been killed.

So, when people have lost everything and have to start off from scratch again, I'm sure you will understand a difference of opinion.

Simply put: Physical training as a norm, the cultivation of mental strength and identity so you don't perceive yourself as any less than any other community (you know loads of our lot have inferiority complexes to goray for historical reasons for example). Finally, having enough intelligence to know what to actually argue about and not get embroiled in petty non-issues (i.e.. mummy mummy he used a word that sounds like swearing waahhhh!!!) In absence of this intelligence, having people strong enough to swiftly cut down the minor issue cry babies before they waste even more time on irrelevant things.

Most of these puppoos haven't even grasped how things could quickly turn ugly for us out here.

We as sikhs lack and have lost our beautiful martial tradition due to the British because at one point we was a threat to their domination of the world. Once when we sikhs walked panjab like devte armed too the teeth, we now wonder from corner to corner, as skinny as young children wearing ceremonial swords to which the majority have no knowledge of how to use them.

Let's all get back to our core principals, baktki and shakti.