MiriPiri

Just want to add that I was listening to radio show about protein a few months ago. The english doctor had done research to decide which protein was better - non-meat or meat. The conclusion was there is no difference, contradictory to previous beliefs, in which was "better quality" protein. He based his non-meat research on asian people who are vegetarians but get good protein levels via pulses (mmm, masaar dhal), and milk of course.

Of course, meat can have bad side effects.

I don't see any evidence that you need to eat meat, except where meat-free options are so poor, i.e. western food cultures. When you have the riches of Indian cuisine, no need to eat to meat.

So to answer the question in the title, man is designed to eat meat from thousands of years ago, but he shouldn't and doesn't need to. Funny how other religions allow it though. Puzzling, that one.

Why are there doubts about Bhindranwale?

How do people on forums profess to speak knowledgably about him when most were children or unborn when he was around?

How much are they prejudiced by their own religious affiliations?

Some say he was defending Harminder Sahib, some say he was taking refuge because he was too scared to fight outside, thinking the army would not invade there.

I know this is the wrong place for answers, but how can I get historical accounts FROM THE PERIOD? I know the majority will be biassed - heck, I was at barely out of Infants at the time, and I remember thinking even the BBC were a mouth-piece for the Indian government. My dad didn't tell me, because he didn't believe Bhindranwale was a SAINT-soldier.

By the way, I do not want to judge the man, I just want to my own quasi-scholastic study of what was a great man, whatever his true motives may have been.

Are there any fair biographies? Or even unfair ones? Would rather not touch the latter.

Many thanks. Who knows, I may even be able to write a biography myself! :-P

P.S. Before nayone uses the T-word, governments the world over have used the label "terrorist" to refer to anyone who actively opposes those in power. This is an outrageous abuse of political language - a terrorist is by the very definition, one who terrorises a population.

Sikhs should be wary about voting for Labour or Conservative on the basis that both of these parties voted to go to war in Iraq. Sikhs do not believe in unjust wars. Never mind the issues of legality, greed, and untruths!!

Sorry to be party-political.

Paji, did you actually read my post? I don't think we disagree....What I said was....

Weight training is good if you are preparing for other sports though, or just for general health, but the extremism involved in BODY-BUILDING is going to take you away from chardi-kalla.

Do forgive me, I didn't mean to give the impression of ignorance.

Forgive me, but I have edited my post to make myself more clear.

I just realised that when I talk abotu body building, I mean building a body rather than training a body, and some people may not appreciate this subtle difference. Obviously you know that body building can lead to bad habits. Done naturally, and complemented with other trianing methods, weight trianing is excellent.

In fact, I recommended it to my dad who is retiring...after a medical examination of course.

:-)

Hate to sound like a fuddy duddy and I don't want to dissuade someone from doing exercise, but body-building and Sikhi do not mix. It promotes self-adulation, self-worship, and too much ego.

Weight training is good if you are preparing for other sports though, or just for general health, but the extremism involved in BODY-BUILDING is going to take you away from chardi-kalla.

Havign said that, if you want big muscles rather than healthy muscles, and want to worship your body in the mirror and want others to worship it, body buildign is the way to go.

I feel that you are way off the mark on this one, trying to disuade the two.

Firstly please read the evidence I wrote in the following thread:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=35902&hl=

Perhaps for you Bodybuilding that is promoted by magazines (steroid using and show displays) is what is coming into your mind. However, it is important to realise that is not the norm.

For normal healthy people, physiotherapeutic exercise or general exercise is a must for optimum health and living.

Weight-training is a means to meet that goal.

Additionally, A LOT of youth would be much better off in the gyms than on the streets. With appropriate mentors and leaders within the community, rather than those who label them as dissidents.

If you wish to challenge me on any of the points concerned please do so with consideration I mean no offense in reply to your statement.

Regards and Gurfateh

Paji, did you actually read my post? I don't think we disagree....What I said was....

Weight training is good if you are preparing for other sports though, or just for general health, but the extremism involved in BODY-BUILDING is going to take you away from chardi-kalla.

Everyone has different bodies and I used to weight train because I had always done so ever since I could lift weights and if I stopped for even a few days I felt weak. Now, I prefer aerobic and martial training because that's what makes me feel physically good and healthy. So I don't want to put off anyone doing exercise, be that weight trianing or anything else.

But in my experience, BODY BUILDING bad, weight training GOOD. :-)

Hate to sound like a fuddy duddy and I don't want to dissuade someone from doing exercise, but body-building and Sikhi do not mix. It promotes self-adulation, self-worship, and too much ego.

Weight training is good if you are preparing for other sports though, or just for general health, but the extremism involved in BODY-BUILDING is going to take you away from chardi-kalla.

Havign said that, if you want big muscles rather than healthy muscles, and want to worship your body in the mirror and want others to worship it, body buildign is the way to go.

Sorry, I mised the reports so I woudl like to know WHY Sikhs are being used as models. In particualr, with regard to the "singhni", compelte with khanda, what is the significance of that? Why such the overt Sikh symbolism? In other words, what was the event?

let's change "Beautiful daughter" to "Guru"

let's change "grab the tail of the bull" to "taking amrit"

and i think most people on the board would decidedly agree with the moral.

you never know what chances and opportunities you're going to get in life. You should have that confidence and that sharda/bhavna/faith that you can achieve...contrarily, you should have a great reason as to why you're letting an opportunity slip by.

Thanks for the post.

Hmmm, not convinced. Big scary bulls and their tails, and farmer'sdaughters, don't make good analogies for falling for Sikhi.

Good effort though. Must try harder.

wjkk wjkf

Thanks for the answers....

I will type the correct answer very shortly......

Wjkk wjkf

The answer is ZERO!

The bus has finished its route and gone back to the depot already!!! Come on, Jarnail Bhaji, what's the answer?!

Once sardarji's stop acting like jokes then maybe things can change

Images are not made up - they tend to come out from observations.

I agree with this. But I do think, as far as the popular image is concerned, Bollywood films nearly always have a token Singh who is there for bhangra-based comedy nonsense.

Whereas in Veer-Zara, for example, the Sikh woman (adopted grandmother of Pakistani muslim family) and old man in Gurudwara who helped scatter her ashes, were both kind and wise people - the ideal picture of Sikhs.

ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਉਬਾਰ ਨ ਸਕਹੈ ਜਾਕਰ ਨਾਮ ਰਟੈ ਹੈ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਰੁਦ੍ਰ ਸੂਰਹ ਸਸਿ ਤੇ ਬਸਿ ਕਾਲ ਸਭੈ ਹੈ ॥੧ (ਸ. ਹਜਾਰੇ)

Ram and Rahim whose names you are uttering cant save you. Brahma, Vishnu Shiva, Sun and Moon, all are subject to the power of Death.1. .(pg.1349)

This means the world will end!!!

global warming!!!!

change!!!!

Don't be so silly. :-)

It means the sun will finally fizzle out and engulf, e.g. moon as stated. Which is of course, true, and stars die out every day. I am of scientific mind and I am constantly impressed by our Guru Ji's factual and accurate nature.

10990

I hope people don't think this is too silly, but you know we all get these fun (or silly) emails askign us to to answer questions on a web page, then we get an answer as to, e.g. our personality, etc.

How abotu a Sikhness Calculator. It could ask relevant questions, then come up with an answer (not necessarily a mathematical one) about how Sikh one really is.

The point of it would be: 1. Fun. 2. The questions would subliminally imply what beign a good Sikh is all about, e.g. could ask questions such as, "how many Sikh rallies have you been on in past year". How often do you do Sikhi sewa, are you armit-dhari, are you planning to be, etc, etc - there are hundreds of possibilities.

Come on, computer bods, get coding!

Dear MiriPiri,

This is not an attack but do you think its better to test on humans? or not test at all and start taking drugs ? I'm just looking for an opinion, I repeat this is not an attack on ur views, I just want justification cuz i don't see another way... may b i'm just blind..help?

And for Singhavelli, hes just simply against rich ppl..lol... although I do agree that, that much maya will probably have some adverse effects on ur jeevan... but then again being poor cud equally be as adverse (drug abuse n all)... the only way these guys can be good role models is telling kids n youth that working hard will get u somewher... thats all... n i guess thats important part of life

To be honest, I'm not sure what we can ascertain from Sikhi with regards to animal testing. Also, I am not sure about how much animal testing is about drug companies tryign to get drugs out to market ASAP to maximise profits, as opposed to buildign up potency of drugs by slowly testign on humans first, which I guess would take longer.

From a totally non-Sikh view, I suppose you can say it's better to test on animals than humans. That's fair enough.

I was just pondering what we shoudl think from a Sikhi view.

As for these guys, the fact they chose to be pictured and featured in a billionaires showcase article (I'm assuming htey did otherwise they would ask for their mention or their photos to be removed), shows that they have too much ego, attachment to money, and pride in their wealth.

THe person that springs to mind to me is Bill Gates. He is so rich, but also does so much good with his wealth in terms of the most deadly diseases for the poorest people, e.g. AIDS and Malaria in the 3rd world. So good can come from mega wealth accumulation, so not an easy topic to discuss. Which is why I said it's hard to judge these people straight off. Forgive me if they are actually good Sikhs. Not that I am one to judge.

Whilst it is true to say that pharmacutical companies do exploit a lot of people, it is not fair to generalise.

In terms of this company or the Singh brothers, we need to ask if they use animal testing. Do they provide any charitable benefits with profits (although it looks like a listed company so not totally in the hands of the Singhs any more), did they or do they give any money to charity from their own pockets from the monetary wealth and income?

Hazard a guess, I would say these are not role models for young Sikhs, but certainly for young entrepeneurs!

can i ask also especailly to warrior, do you believ that the sarbat khalsa of 1986 was in accordance with gurmat/sikhi traditions, and if it was do you beleive in the outcome/decision made by the sangat?

chatanga

can i ask also especailly to warrior, do you believ that the sarbat khalsa of 1986 was in accordance with gurmat/sikhi traditions,

What sort of question is that? You’re asking me if people in 1986 were what you term “Proper Sikhs” very primitive mentality.

and if it was do you beleive in the outcome/decision made by the sangat?

Again What are you asking me here?

I'm also confused. Make your point, chatanga.

One wonders why God detached our souls from the divine in the first place. Of course, we'll never know the answer, but it sure is frustrating that he did so.

So he gave us the rules of the game, and indeed the objective, and we are participants, willingly or not, so do we play without knowing WHY the game started? That's the question that blights the minds of the unblessed. Yeah, me.

The idea of an independent Khalistan makes me shudder.

Wake up, people, our so-called leaders cannot even run a gurudwara with honour, integrity, and due dilligence, let alone a nation state.

Then there is the idea of a manifesto for a Sikh nation. Would the government advocate all Sikhs be forced to adhere to the 5 K's, i.e. a Talibanisation for at least the Sikh populus in what is now Punjab?

There are just sooooo many intellectual reasons not to have a Khalistan, and NO spiritual ones in favour of a Khalistan, i.e. a Sikh nation is not a religious idea for the Sikhs.

I'm sure there have been some scholalry papers written on the idea of a Khalistan that address my points, but it's just not workable.

And the major difference between Kosovo and would-be-Khalistan is that there is and never has been a mass (or majority) movement in favour of a Khalistan. Not even after the atrocities of the 70's/80's and in particular after 1984. It's just a dream of the most affected (or dis-affected), that would quickyl turn into a nightmare.

We need somebody like Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindrawale to lead us.

No it is Us who should be leaders

Stop depending on other people to lead you.. We are not sheep

Quite right.

So that people can stop saying things that make no difference like such and such is corrupt and we should do something, here's what needs to happen. It's not rocket science.

Plan A

1. Many amrit-dhari who care enough need to go to Harminder Sahib and do sewa for many months or years.

2. They can then gain chardi kala and learn how things work from the inside.

3. Slowly, gain a foothold in the executive levels. Sorry to say but you have to play the politics (or see plan B below.

4. Start changing things from the inside.

5. At all times, keep in mind the end game - that of a pure khalsa base in our prime Gurudwara to purify the whole khalsa and bring waiverers (like myself) into the fold.

Plan B

Fight a turf war there. A non-starter because you will also be against Indian army because you will be labelled as terrorists.

If you think that we are all come from Waheguru, then this issue is an irrelevance. Read this poem to understand where I am coming from. I hope to be true to this one day, but not ready yet. :D

My mind and body yearn,

but my Lover is far away in foreign lands.

The Beloved does not come home,

I am sighing to death,

and the lightning strikes fear in me.

I lie alone on the bed, tormented;

mother, the pain is like death to me.

Without the Divine One, how can there be sleep or hunger?

What clothing can soothe the skin?

Nanak says, the bride is truly wed

when she is embraced by her Beloved.

When discussing science, it would be useful to actually quote scientific sources as opposed to spurious websites.

Hair has many benefits, but preventing SARS is not one of them (as an example of a seemingly bizarre statement)!

I said does anyone know anything about this?...your post doesn't help me... All I can make out of your post is that your just willing to start an argument...

As an avid believer of sikhism nothing as such should be Bizarre to you...Where sikhism begins all the sciences go blank...

Ok, here's the score. If Guru Granth Sahib Ji says, "Hair curs or prevents SARS" then I accept. But if a website asserts this withou scientific or Gurbani evidence, then I am not even interested. Especially such absurd statements as keeping kersh prevents SARS. That is so ridiculous that it woudl be hilarious if not so utterly dangerous!

Now, I have a degree in a scientific subject so this matter is close to my heart. But I woudl liek to say, I know of nothing in Guru Granth Sahib Ji that contradicts anything I learnt. In fact, modern science like string theory (not so modern now) is actually open to the idea of many parallel universes. Something simialr mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

So, you see, I am not trying to start an argument, I just want teh glory and not the joke to be on Sikhi.

I understand your point but you have to admit that in many western countries the youth are going "off the rails" since the widespread adoption of what I see as lefty child rearing policies. I know youth crime is a major problem in the UK for example. Yes there are lots of environmental aspects to why this is but also children knowing that they will get no real punishment for their actions doesn't help either.

Watch this for a funny take on it:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Hw7l_2XeGo8

I do agree this children are ferrile, i.e. "wild", i.e. they have not been brought up in a harmonius, civilised way. And if they get to that stage, then they need some REAL punishment, instead of givign them what they see as a prize, i.a. ASBO!

BUT, I guess I am an idealist and think that beating children is unnecessary and even more improtantly undesirable. I can't imagine any of our Gurus beat children. That's where I'm partly coming from. Trying (and always failing in other matters) to live up to the Gurus' ideals.

If any of you are parents, you will know why a parent beats a child. It is because you are angry. That is a chorr in Sikhism.

A parent NEVER beats a child because they think it will discipline them, that is a justification after the event. It is purely because they have failed to prevent the child misbheaving, or because they have lost it in the heat of the moment.

Imagine you are a manager at work and a worker is forever doing Sickies, spends half the time in the tea-room, having a <admin-profanity filter activated>, browsing the internet (oops)! Well, do you lose your patience and beat them or do you reason with them or bring in othe rdisciplinary measures? Why should your own child suffer physical punishment and pain?

Remember people, physical action is a last resort in Sikhi, be that in a regional crisis or personal one, and onyl to be used for Waheguru's justice.

To clarify, beatings are necessary only for bad parents (where they have failed to prevent bad beahviour in their kids, or to control them earlier), and it refelcts badly on their abilities to communicate with their child. They have not taught their child right from wrong, but have taught them that you can intimidate and scare the weak usign physical force. If you have any doubt about this, note that physically abusive behaviour is passed on from generation to generation. And of course, the odd clip round the ear-hole is not the same level as systematic physical abuse, but it's the tip of teh iceberg that thnakfully most people never fall down!

Sadly I've seen so many kids brought up with this liberal nonsense where the kid grows to be a real self centred twat.

You talk about using punitive measures being a sign of bad parenting. That is wrong. Being a fairy who fails to clearly distinguish between right and wrong is equally bad parenting.

Some kids are tough, they don't respond to talking/reasoning. These ones occasionally could do with a thappar when they go too far.

I see kids brought up in all different manners in my career. I think I am in a position to say many with the left wing wishy washy upbringing turn out to be morally weak. Whilst many people who were given the odd slap when they went too far, grow up to say that they think it was positive (note: I'm not condoning physical child abuse but discipline as an option).

Maybe your own genetic dispositions are placid - I know many kids that seem inherently spirited and testy. They test boundaries audaciously and it seems to be characteristic of theirs. Sometimes they just need to be reminded not to go to far - for their own sake.

An example would be when a child is caught bullying another. A swift slap at the time and an explanation of the relationship between your actions and theirs would do much better than any amount of wishy washy <admin-profanity filter activated>.

If your in the UK look at the explosion of wild chavs that everyone is complaining about as the result of trying to foist left wing, white middle class child rearing practices on the working class and foreigners.

I never advocated using non-punitive measures. That's impossbile. Non-physical punishments I said.

First of all, placidity is rarely due to genetics. ANd vice versa. E.g. a school in a poort American neighbourhood solved the hyperactivity in tehir school by changing the school meals to non-added sugar and non-additive foods.

E.g. In TV progs where way OTT kids are playing up, they are disciplined using psychological reconditioning like nauhgty step to contemplated their actions and give them time to calm down. The only "problem" with this that it requires time and patiences which a lot of people don't seem to have. And this hints at why many kids are unruely in teh UK, for example. Cos both parents are busy workign to maintain their plasma TV lifestyles, or drugs, or alcohol, or keepign with the next-door Singhs, or....well, you get the picture.

Wishy-washy and liberalism are just words and labels that people bandy about because other people's views are different and they wish to blame someone. Like Indian government coining the phrase against Sikh fighters calling them militants and terrorists so that the media had aready phrase to use.

Please don't use them without a logical argument.

Look, if people think slapping is a good form of punishment, then fair enough I accept it causes no lasting harm (apparently) but I choose to respect my kids and show them values that accord with positivity and constructiveness ratehr than a quick-fix destructive nature. It's that fundamentally simple to me. If everyone did the same, then we'd all be a lot happier. Not that I'm perfect, but I am passionate about the way to do certain things.

For the record, I am not pacifist before anyone wishes to attach labels.

I found this information on a site...The URL is below...

It says that keeping hair reduces chances of cancer, asthma, SARS, tuberculosis, decaying of the teeth, Bone problems/diseases, sunburn, and etc. Also, it says that hair attract solar energy and the energy is then provided to the brain.

I found it cool...I was searching about Nasa having Maharaj ji to help discover space...And found this...

Does anyone have any Gurbaani related to this...or anything that you would know of? :s

site: Hair Science and other facts about Sikhism

When discussing science, it would be useful to actually quote scientific sources as opposed to spurious websites.

Hair has many benefits, but preventing SARS is not one of them (as an example of a seemingly bizarre statement)!

Imagine you are a manager at work and a worker is forever doing Sickies, spends half the time in the tea-room, having a <admin-profanity filter activated>, browsing the internet (oops)! Well, do you lose your patience and beat them or do you reason with them or bring in othe rdisciplinary measures? Why should your own child suffer physical punishment and pain?

Not a good example. There is a BIG difference in maturity levels of a child and that of an adult

Papi Ji, not pickign in your comments today (besides, I don't get personal!) but maybe to some, there is a big difference to how much respect they show to fellow workers compared to their children, even if they don't realise it.

Before anyone thinks I am anti-hitting cos I was beatn and I hold a grudge against my folks, for example, then not true. I was hardly given beatings. It was not really a feature. The threat was enough for me and the thought of upsettign my parents!

Children should be taught to empathise and sympathise with their peers and their elders.

And I agree with an earlier poster that unless you have direct experience of small children in you household, i.e. as a discipliner; or unless you have particular child psychology skills, then you really are not qualified to contribute constructively in this debate.

And, anyway, what DOES Sikhi say about smacking children. Probably nothing directly. A child brought up from first instincts in a Sikhi way should not need physical punishment for discipline.