Singhberkshire

. A member in my own family recently had a sham wedding in gurdwara, i did not attend it, and asked her, wat will her kids be? Will they be sikhs? She could even give me a straight answer, and tried to fobb me off. Wat pyar they got for sikhi, if they marry non sikhs, then dont raise sikh kids?

Big Respect to you. I too have refused to take part in these sham weddings.

An not sikh men marrying non sikh women

I am against a non sikh being married in the gurdwara an this includes sikh men marrying non sikhs

LETS BE HONEST

A lot of men against interfaith marriages that only target sikh girls marrying non sikhs are insecure men with serious low self esteem issues who have massive insecurities

you obviously are not reading the forum well to think the above. Like many have pointed out to you Sikh men are having the finger pointed at them too. There are now many sikh boys/men marrying guji girls in our gurdwaras. There are sikh boys marrying muslim girls in our gurdwaras. There have been for at least 15 years now sikh boys/men marrying white goriya whether they are polish , british, latvian or irish.

Read the forum properly and then speak otherwise you tend to look a bit silly with your dated accusations

Youve got is all wrong pal. Like i said before it appears you are around coconuts.

Bit of advice...Get out and about a bit more. Meet the world .

All the very best

Common occurrence this....

Sadly the old boys don't see fit to see it any other way.

Best thing is to name and shame.

Another Gurdwaras in Southall allowing this practice is Ramgharia Gurdwaras Oswald Road.

They have a purpose built small "gurdwara" built at rear of main gurdwara on the premises itself. Here they hold regular weddings to Gujus, Gorey, thavay and most recently Muslim yes Muslim to Sikh anand karaj. Proof is wedding on 24 th May of Ramgharia lad to a Algerian Muslim girl. We were told by multiple sources these besharam Oswald Road committee allowed it due to the groom being grandson of life long committee member/founder.

They try to dodge the local sang at by holding these sham anand karaj on weekdays. Or "after hours" on Sunday's after sang at has left. Yes if you're reading this committee of Oswald Road Gurdwara you know who you are don't you?

Shame on you boys real shame.

All i can say after reading his bakwaas is he must be living within a circle of friends/relatives who are damn outright coconuts.

I've never heard so much rubbish come out of ones mouth. Sunday roasts? Who is this Joker?

Thing the guy is out of touch.....sunday Roasts? Where do u get that from?.

I'm sorry Simran but I beg to differ. This problem of being 'tough to be a parent' only exists in Western nations. In western nations, a teenager can run away from home and survive on some kind of welfare. Moreover these are 'monied' societies where even a beggar has a higher standard of living then many wage earners in the East. In the East, there is no such options.

I've personally witnessed bad and good parenting and it's always those who refuse to budge on their principles that always come out on the top.

As for Gurdwara, as I've mentioned before legal action can be taken and committees can be voted out.

Not as easy as that....not with all the corruption and hogging of commitees. The old boys will not budge and I have even seen in one gurdwara it came to a full on fisty punchup in front of sangat on a Sunday morning. If one tries to vote another out they are seen as troublemakers and can seen in bad light amongst our close community.

They all have their own "reasons" not wanting to step down or be voted out. For example one Gurdwara in Southall the Pardan's son was a mortgage broker. When the Gurdwara decided to purchase some properties yes they went to him. And yes he offered the Gurdwara the worst possible deal on a interest only mortgage term. Why I hear you say?...Because his commission was a dream earner. It was all stamped up by the Pardan and his son now at the age of 47 sits retired. Yes he made that much money from the commission that he retired!! Left the Sangat to pick up the pieces financially. They only got found out when during an audit questions were asked about why the hell they were obscene amounts in payments.....

And yes the pardan still sits there in power.....

Parents and Gurdwaras fault. They know who they are.

And this is a problem stretching across the world young man. Some areas of Sikhi being adhered to are way off in parts of USA and Canada and Oz

Gud idea but some wouldn't agree, I think this is great idea, already there are organisations set up to help alcoholics in our community and things are being in place to have these sort of services accessible for our community. Gurdwaras are where most of our community goes and what better place to have these counsellors at. Just more need to get involved and get the ball rolling.

And how would this solve the Mums of such girls who are happy for such weddings to go ahead?.. Im on your side brother but would like to know how would it sway the poisioned mums?

Even bigger fools are the so called Gurdwaras allowing this to happen on there premises. A well known Gurdwara in Southall have been allowing Anand Karaj of such weddings in a secret back room on Sunday mornings away from the main gurdwara sangat.

they know who they are....

Yes if you are reading this SHAME ON YOU!!

Yup, can't be hypocritical when it comes to something like this. If we object to Sikh females marrying Muslims then we can't be silent when Sikh guys marry Muslim girls. The argument is " Well the kids will be Sikh." Lmao, have you seen the lily-livered state of Sikh males today? The phrase, "putting your foot down" is alien to most guys these days. I won't hold my breath in anticipation of the kids of these marriages adhering to Sikh tenets. Never say never, but the odds are stacked against such an occurrence.

Oh think you may have me wrong pal.....i object to it both ways....sikh guys with muslim girls in Gurdwara and sikh girls with muslim boys in gurdwara....IT SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED AT ANAND KARAJ FULL STOP,.

My point was gurdwaras have become a business.....very very very sadly that is fact. But to me it is rubbing our historys noses in it.

There is a gurdwara in Southall carrying out Anand Kharaj to a Sikh boy to his Muslim girlfriend this month Saturday May 24th.

I had bought this to the attention of our Sanagt earlier last month which sparked an interesting debate. It surprised me the amount of private messages I received telling me that I was old fashioned and to "be in line with todays trend". I for obvious reason quite openly object to this and am finding it a very sad state of affairs that our gurdwaras have allowed this to happen.

I am still hoping with me are others who can turn these gurdwaras to see sense rather than the money

topic closed. Many thanks to those with sensible inputs

Without wanting to sound like a numpty, would it be possible to cite reference to where Sikhism states you are committing "INCEST" if you cut you hair, that's a pretty big leap considering your comparing cutting you hair to sleeping with your sister, also, any reference you can cite for the following statement would be good as well " Other terms which Satguru jee has used for MONAY are INFIDEL, DOG AND DEVIL".

To be honest, it's attitudes like this that drive people away from what is, in essence, a beautiful religion, i know "MONAY" who are more Sikh than baptised Sikh's fella.

Ignore pappiman. I'm quite sure he is here to wind people up. MAny have sent me a private message expressing their concern and have reported him to forum administrators for using such degrading terms.

The guy quite clearly :

a) a fanatic

or

b) requires professional help.

Ignore him

I find that hard to believe.. I'm just saying that if you raise your children in a western state, that they will become more adjusted to western culture where mixed relationships have become a norm these days.. Dating is also paap in Sikhism, but those people don't care. Whatever though, what can we do? Let those couples live their lives in sakoon hahahaha. As for the Gurdwara, I think it's wrong. Why do people who are mona even get married in Anand karaj if they don't care about religion?? Court marriage seems best for them lol.

May I ask why you again quote on mona? What about the Sikhs with turbans who I know to smoke/drink and even take the occasional spliff?..And not to mention the Mcdonalds big mac they scoff down? It is not only the mona who are doing this?. Look at the way Singh Sikhs behave on Vasaikhi? Bottle of lager in one hand with Sikh Khanda flag in other..

And the girls who with bottle of wine in one hand wearing a Sikh Khanda handkerchief on their head while danceing to the dhol outside of gurdwara....Yes its true. I see this with my own eyes whilst inside the gurdwara premises.If you dont believe this I invite you to go to Southall/Bham and the likes....Court marriage is best for these boys AND girls too....

Are you suggesting it is ok for them to Anand Karaj because they wear a turban? Ive never heard such rubbish and am wondering why on earth I bothered coming here on this forum but for the few who have private messaged me showing support.

All the very best

The only soliton is to protest when this wedding takes place, make a big impact so they will never do this again. Also boycott the gurdwara in the future and if they continue this practice I see no other option than to forcefully remove GGSJ from the premises

A protest is one thing and should always be peaceful. But it always gets out of a hand at such protests....something we do NOT want . As for forcefully removing GGSJ from premises I WOULD NEVER EVER ENCOURAGE SUCH A THING. A GURDWARA IS A SACRED PLACE. The fact that the people running it are breaking common ground rules should not not mean having to forcefully remove the GGSJ.

Brother one big mistake you have made here. The people running it should be made to leave. Not our GuruJi

DO NOT SHOUT HERE

Nobody shouted making myself clear having asked a few times now

EVERYONE PLEASE STOP!!

THIS IS GOING WAY OFF TRACK. PLEASE STICK TO THE ORIGINAL POST

At least those people are Amritdhari. If you are a mona, but you believe in Sikhi, why should you not take Amrit?? If you can't even listen to your Guru, will they really help you?

Ok now listen this is getting off the topic again. Please refrain from doing this and keep all comments on the subject of gurdwaras allowing interfaith weddings. The original post by me was questioning a gurdwara who are giving their blessing to a Sikh boy and a muslim girl

your suggestion that I am trying to break link is unfounded. I do not know where you get this from.

1699 = Brother I thought that you did not wish for the couple in question to get married in your local Gurdwara.

The couple in question have no intention of ever adapting Sikhism.

1699 = Many people who had no appreciation for Sikhi can change their whole lives once the Truth of Sikhi can penetrate their shells.

It is the parents who feel it Anand Karaj should be conducted in a gurdwara. I have never ever seen the couiple in a gurdwara full stop. In fact I would never even dream of trying to get them to see ways. The guy smokes and drinks like a fish.....the girl in question also smokes and I have seen her in our town with a bottle of what looked like cider in her hand struggling in her heels. She has no intention whatsoever of becoming a Sikh....what on EARTH gives you this idea?

1699 = Never underestimate the power of Sikhi brother. If two people are living lives not in accordance with Gurmat, our response shouldn't be to say that they cannot be changed. Our response should be, how can WE (as ordinary Sangat) assist them best in changing their lives for the better via the Truth of Gurmat and Sikhi. More engagement and interaction with the couple from Gurdwara Sangat (including explanation of what the Anand Karaj stands for in terms of responsibilities to live a good honest life) can only help the process. Let's say for argument's sake there's only even a 50% chance of them changing, I humbly suggest that the 50% chance as a consequence of Gurbani and Gurdwara Sangat is a higher percentage to induce personal changes in the couple's life than any other philosophy or Sangat out there. Case closed.

I feel you are obviously completely disengaged to the real world and are instead trying very very sadly to justify the situation.

1699 = With respect brother, I feel it those who do not realise that so-called mixed marriages are doubling and trebling in the coming years who are disengaged. Because excluding those marriages from greater interaction and inclusion with the Sangat can only spell demographic disaster for our Panth going forward as such marriages increase year by year.

There is not justification for our gurdwaras allowing this.

1699 = I respect your opinion brother but look at it logically. 1st generation we stop 20% from marrying at a Gurdwara due to the reasoning you give in this thread (leaving 80% the freedom to marry in a Gurdwara) and ensure that the children and futures of 20% of such excluded marriages have no link to Sikhi . 2nd generation we stop 40% of the original 80% you would have permitted to marry in a Gurdwara. And so on and so on. Pretty soon after a few generations the Sikh population in the Diaspora (and indeed outside of Majha and Malwa in Punjab) would be vastly diminished.

SinghSabha....what exactly is your point here?

I think we will have to agree to disagree....

All the best Singhsabha

SinghSabha

your suggestion that I am trying to break link is unfounded. I do not know where you get this from.

The couple in question have no intention of ever adapting Sikhism. It is the parents who feel it Anand Karaj should be conducted in a gurdwara. I have never ever seen the couiple in a gurdwara full stop. In fact I would never even dream of trying to get them to see ways. The guy smokes and drinks like a fish.....the girl in question also smokes and I have seen her in our town with a bottle of what looked like cider in her hand struggling in her heels. She has no intention whatsoever of becoming a Sikh....what on EARTH gives you this idea?.

I feel you are obviously completely disengaged to the real world and are instead trying very very sadly to justify the situation.

There is not justification for our gurdwaras allowing this ..

Once again my question is WHY, OH WHY do our gurdwaras allow this?

Lets not sell our souls for a mere few hundred quid

What is the root problem of such issue? We need to find the real problem which is ddriving our folks for inter-religious marriages/relationships.

root problem?....I blame the parents of these kids. I'm sorry if this upsets people here.

I have see in one family where the whole family ganged up on a girl who wanted to marry a Ramgharia boy. Family said this can never happen Jatts marrying Ramgharia....What you will read next is truth and nothing but truth. 10 years later another girl from family pipes up she wants to marry a gorah. This goes ahead. A year later another girl from family shows up with a Guju boy and says she wants to marry him. It goes ahead. At both of these wedding the Baba of the family - the eldest grandfather - was dancing at both weddings and even had his arms wrapped around the gorah when she married his grandaughter. Same man who turned alot of the family to gang up on the girl who wanted to marry a Ramgharia. When he was pressed on this the answer was "that is how we thought back then". To me that was not an answer because what is different about our roots and culture now?

Someone in the family said at time "it is matter of time before we see one of our kids walk home with a kala or muslim soon". At the time I thought he was wrong.

But yes a family relative soon sent wedding invites out to rest of family their girl marrying a kala. I know alot of the younger folk who did not attend. (And yes he left her with a kid and she's now back with her family who took her back in)

I have also very sadly noticed that alot of these parents are of the kind where they like a good drink or two and can often be seen at wedding completely plastered hence the lack of guidance and not exactly being the role model we should be. I have even seen with my own eyes at what is fast becoming almost normal is fathers pouring their daughters alcohol spirits and then dancing inappropriatley on the dancefloor. Completely shameless

I have seen as others have mentioned it is us younger folk who are standing up to this with older parents accepting this as perfectly ok.

I have even seen parents rowing with siblings of girls/boys who want to have a out of faith marriage. Yes they are standing up to siblings fighting thier corner saying "well at least she is happy".

It is fast becoming a sad state of affairs.