Pakandi baba

Yorkshire tea is really the best. Though at night caffeine keeps me awake so have a decaffeinated cup after 5pm.

Baba ji, Chaa is something that will not help our dharmic lives, there are many ways to stay alert other than caffeine, ji. How can chaa be part of SIkhi when the chaa that most SIkhs drink today is the chaa that the english people brought here aka not from our country (so how can you apply chaa being banned when it didn't even exist in India before the english).

Beti, chaa pevo ja na, it's a personal choice, If it does not intoxicate the mind, then don't make a song and dance about it. If we considered everything, we'd never consume food, drink or medicine. Sidhi i gal hegi.

Vegetation is alive too, shall we consume or refrain....

Caffeine is supposed to be prohibited, and that is why I do not accept any tea/coffee. In fact, any addicted edible things aren\t supposed to be used. Makes me surprised that you can see chaa being served in langar halls, and my parents take chaa as well but their reasoning is that they are addicted lol, but whatever. Weird reason!

Why? when have you heard of anyone high on caffeine to be controlled by it? it keeps you alert but does not induce what intoxicants can. Served in Gurdwaras, what does that tell you? were the Gurus not aware of it? keep personal opinions personalised and not make out it's Gurmat

Truth is I didn't. Someone told me and I asked him, to which he admitted.

That is the modus operandi with dhunda and co and with the rats that follow him. They make panthic statements to begin with. then start to show their true colours.

So, you asked somebody, they told you and that's why we should accept it? really?

Bit like being in School, so and so told me this about so and so. Grow up or give actual evidence

I agree. In the evenings you see a line of old white bearded men all talking about the same thing they were talking about the day before and the day before that.

You get the Sikh Ethics programme, the odd Youth one but lasts a few weeks then they ''need a long deserved break'' :s

Sangat TV had a White Sikh who used to do Kattha but he's vanished.

Old backward know it all men always on the TV ranting about all tripe. Get them out of our Gurdwaras and let younger sit on Committees

Both Sikhs and Muslims are minorities in India. Sikh should cooperate with other minorities.

Muslims are a better enemy to have than Bammanns. Muslims attacked us openly and Sikhs fought bravely and we had a great history.

Bamanns attack in deceitful ways.

Like making Sikh jokes, mocking our language, our history, making organizations like Rashtriya Sikh Sangat, promoting fake gurus like radhaswamis,gurmeet ram rahim etc etc.

Erm you conveniently forgotten the attack on Darbar Sahib? millions massacred [Amrithdharis] 1984-present

I see an agenda here...

Pakandi baba swami ji, why do you wanna learn how to play that thing? Why not a dilruba or taus or any instrument created by Guru Sahib themself?

Just curious

Mera chela, nothing wrong with other instruments. I love the Rabab and many others. But just because harmonium was not the choice instrument of Bhai Mardana Ji [was it invented then?] I adore the piano too, but harmonuim is beautiful I find.

Khalsa Ji, anybody know of any Gurdwaras in the West Midlands that they know of that give good lessons in teaching Harmonium?

Much obliged

Dhan Waheguru Satnam

You have taken this Pangti out of context. And it's not surprising since you have read that incorrect English translation. Read Prof Sahib Singh Jee's teeka and then read the entire Shabad, it is full of metaphors using Islamic terminology. Read each and every Tukh from that Shabad how Guru Sahib is using Islamic words and redefining them in light of Gurmat. For example, it says in that Shabad "Sach Nivaj, Yakeen Musala" meaning: Vaheguru De Naam nu apni Namaz Bana te rab te yakeen nu apna Mussala bana(make the Naam of Vaheguru your Nimaz and make trust in Vaheguru as your prayer mat). And the whole shabad goes on like this using metaphor after metaphor. The tukh you mentions means as Prof Sahib Singh Jee has translated it is "In your mind do Kamaee of the Naam of Vaheguru, this for you is the wisdom of Quran and Katebs(bible, torah)." And anyone who has read Quran and Katebs knows they don't talk about Naam. So this is obviously not talking about the actual Quran or Katebs.

Some Back ground info is needed for the readers here: The theory behind this Shabad is that this Shabad of Guru Arjun Dev Jee was addressed to those Sikhs who were previously of Islamic background so Guru Sahib using Islamic terminology and redefining them in order to explain the message of Gurmat that for you this path of Gurmat/Sikhi is your new Makkah, Haj, Namaz, Quran, Mussala, Sharah, Bhisht, Hoors etc. During the time of Guru Arjun Dev Jee, half of the Sikh converts came from Islamic background. Sheikh Sirhindi who is regarded as the Mujjadid(reviver) of Islam was alarmed by seeing so many Muslims becoming Sikhs. So he used his power and influence to have Guru Arjun Dev Jee become Shaheed. Even Jahangir in Tauzke Janangiri mentions that the reason why he executed Guru Arjun dev Jee was because many Muslims had become his followers.

As for Guru Gobind Singh Jee's Bani, that Shabad(ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ) is a part of our Daily Nitnem. This Shabad is read out in Rehras Sahib by all Amritdharis. Furthermore, this Shabad is read out in all Gurdwaras around the world including Sri Darbar Singh and Panj Takhts. So it is undisputed fact that this is Gurbani. This Shabad is very important for Sikhs because it strengthens our religious boundaries in straight forward words for those misguided Sikhs who do not mind becoming a Hardeghi Chamach(A spoon used in all foods) as Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha called those Sikhs who say they are believers in the Guru but go around following Vedas, Bible, Quran and rituals and festivals of other religions.

When you disown Bani of your father(Guru Gobind Singh Jee) but are tirelessly defending Bani of Mohammad one cannot help but nod his head in apsos and disappointment of how much you have mixed up your priorities.

Look, those that oppose the Dasam Granth do it out of love for the Guru Sahib as they can't fathom such wording used in Charitropakhyan to be attributed to Mahraaj ji, same with those who defend it, they do it with love for him and say the definitions are not as they appear. So I'm not here to discuss that.

In simple terms, all the Gurus said that one should follow the path you follow, be it Christian, Islam, etc etc

Those who understand will, those that do not, won't. Jisnu toon janai so jan jaanai. All the Guru Sahibs preached tolerance, and never once ridiculed any scripture, instead respected and stated that all Bhagats, Gurus, Prophets are all sent by the ONE God. Now for some clearly when we go to the Sacha Darbar and are questioned to why they chose to ridicule the faith of another and their scripture whilst claiming, we are TRUE Sikhs of the Guru Sahibs and practice what they preached, well the outcome is obvious.

WOW you have completely lost the plot

On one hand you respect and are arguing to death for the izzat of the Quran here but at the same time you have become bemukh to bani of Guru Gobind Singh Jee and say it means nothing to you because Guru jee's bani is not in line with your secular philosophy

Nothing to do with my so called secular philosophy. The Dasam Granth is not the Guru, if you believe it is, then you're the bemukh. Dasam Granth is not the topic here.

So, you and others doubt Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Ji Nirankaar? why oh why would he even say such things in the Bani...

kurwxu kqyb idl mwih kmwhI ] (1083-17)

kuraan katayb dil maahi kamaahee.

Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible

Ignore the Bible bit as that's not what we are discussing.

Go, fabricate to suit your own needs as does Sheikh and a few others. The truth is the truth, hate all you want. You're driven away from sacha gian by the hatred you posses.

The Quran is such a vile compilation to you and others, yet here is the Lord saying dil meh kamovoh jo likia Quran vich - Basic Punjabi breakdown for those who are not able to translate

You cannot believe in the Koran and Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Please explain how two things which completely contradict one another on so many subjects can both be right or issued by the same God.

To take but one instance of radical dissimilarity:

Quran - advocates pilgrimage, fasting

SGGS - Totally refutes pilgrimage and fasting.

Please don't dodge the question or change the subject. Please speak on the point I have raised above, if you choose to reply to me at all.

So if one respects the scripture of another religion that equates to believing it? did the Guru Sahibs respect other religions or not? did they mock them the way you do? or did they explain with pyar?

ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨਯੋ ॥

ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ ॥

ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਨ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਪਾਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਹਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥੮੬੩॥

O God ! the day when I caught hold of your feet,

I do not bring anyone else under my sight;

none other is liked by me now;

the Puranas and the Quran try to know Thee by the names of Ram and Rahim

and talk about you through several stories, but I do not accept any of their opinions;

The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas describe several mysteries of yours,

but I do not agree with any of them.

O sword-wielder God! This all has been described by Thy Grace,

what power can I have to write all this?

1 More thing einstein, so what if the quran is mentioned in gurbani, does that mean they are being praised? wat an idiotic thing to say, adam/eve are also mentioned, but does that mean we believe in adam/eve now n not evolution? If michael jackson was mentioned in gurbani, would that mean hes all of a sudden a prophet now too? Remember 1 thing, guru arjan dev ji (shaheeda da sartaj), was made shaheed by jahanghir, for wat reason?.....For refusing to put quranic praises and praises of prophet muhammed in the adi granth (SGGS), guru ji stated, ONLY the truth shall be put inside our scriptures.

This is from the SGGS? if not then it means nothing as the SGGS is the ONLY Guru!

As for scriptures being mentioned, does not mean you have to believe in them, it's called RESPECT? this is what the Guru Sahibs have emphasised, and if they mention them, that means they are endorsing them as the Guru Sahibs did not say CONVERT but stay faithful and true to the religions you follow.

Gurbani is true, but just because something was found before actually being published doesn't make it false, not siding with them but even Muhammad said that Gabriel gave him the Qur'an he never claimed to make it himself.

Gurbani is true, but just because something was found before actually being published doesn't make it false, not siding with them but even Muhammad said that Gabriel gave him the Qur'an he never claimed to make it himself.

Look at his fat belloy. Idiotic women fall for fools, why can't they be stopped.

Maybe there's a reason behind this? Maybe he didn't know who he was at the time?

Why th need to kneel in front of any holy person?? no excuses. Many other ways to show respect. Toshi chap is dead now anyway.

what would you have more faith in

1 Guru Sahibans own holy words. Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

2 Stories written by different individuals who may or may not have met Guru Sahibans and there stories containing errors. also we dont know there spirtual avasta so we dont know if they understood why Guru Sahibans did what they did.

im not saying dont use stories but they should be secondary sources

But how can they do Khatha on verses of the Gurbani once it's been explained? there are times, places certain Gurbani was uttered, written. Particular times in the lives of the Guru Sahibs & Bhagats, this with the story attached has more impact.

When poets are asked about their process, they will also say such things as the words 'come to them' (remember that Gurbani is written in poetic verse). That doesn't mean to say that some higher power, or the object of their muse, dictated their poems to them word for word.

The Sacred Naam acted as an inspiration to Guru Sahib when he was composing his Bani. The Bani didn't directly proceed from the mouth of God himself, but rather from the divine inspiration and ecstasy which Waheguru caused to take hold within Guru Sahib.

The tuk which you have provided doesn't emphatically state that Guru Sahib received dictation ad verbum from God. Muhammad however claimed he literally had a conversation with God after he supposedly flew to Jannah astride Buraq.

Dhan Guru Nanak HAD a verbal meeting and a physical one. [Three days in the River]

Upon this meeting, Guru Ji uttered Japji Sahib.

Your interpretation is your opinion, mine is historically factual and proven.

A so called apology has been issued lol

http://sikhsiyasat.net/2015/08/18/controversial-bbc-presenter-bobby-friction-apologises-for-using-offensive-term-against-sikhs/

Majority are non believers but come from Sikh families.

If you think the Five Ks were ONLY given to the Khalsa, but for whatever stupid reason, we so called Sikhs pick and choose as we see fit and wear the Kara to show we are Sikhs. BUT with that same hand we wear that Kara we drink, smoke, rape, steal, murder! The point of the Kara was to remind one of when we go to do those things, you see the Kara and STOP in your tracks and refrain. But is that what it's doing? no we care not, unfortunately

Well in a nutshell the Abrahamic Prophets claimed that God literally spoke to them and entrusted them with the task of relaying their almighty dispensations, word for word, to the unenlightened masses.

The Gurus never claimed this about themselves. Waheguru is not something you can have a chat with.

The Guru is the Truth, and these mobs of prophets are liars and fabricators.

"Jaisi Mein Aavey Khasam Ki Bani, Tesra kari gyan vey Lalo. - As the Word of the Forgiving Lord comes to me, so do I express it, O Lalo"

SGGS p72.

The parcharks only tell us stories at gurdwara. we have heard these stories over and over again but in Gurbani it only talks of the spiritual path and about Naam Simran. why dont these parcharks and sant talk of the spiritual path, how to do Simran and the obstacles we will encounter in our bhagti, since that is only what Gurbani talks about. dont these parcharks, sants, granthis have to do alot of Simran and reach a certain spiritual stage before they can do parcher.

The parcharks only tell us stories at gurdwara. we have heard these stories over and over again but in Gurbani it only talks of the spiritual path and about Naam Simran. why dont these parcharks and sant talk of the spiritual path, how to do Simran and the obstacles we will encounter in our bhagti, since that is only what Gurbani talks about. dont these parcharks, sants, granthis have to do alot of Simran and reach a certain spiritual stage before they can do parcher.

Well these stories are true, and have more impact as they tell you about certain things they Guru Sahibs encountered and we shall too.

The Spiritual path you ask about, well that comes personally to each individually, one feels it when reading Path day and night.

It's watching somebody eating a delicious dish, then you ask them to describe it, but he/she can't, so unless you take a bite, you'd now know.

It's taking place at the

Supreme Banqueting & Conference

10 Roebuck Lane , West Bromwich, West Midlands B70 6QR

0121 553 3921

Not sure if Mahraaj is present but have heard it to be true, If those Singhs can call or check then act accordingly.

Milni is at 11am.

It began with girls but it's spread to men too.