Into the Light

:huh2: i dont think its a burning question, that is an overstatement. A member of the SGPC is more likely to be a bloody RSS agent then she is.

i'm assuming you didn't read the article? This statement is sarcasm by the author...def take a moment to read the article

"The burning question on everyone’s minds – Is JK Rowling an RSS agent?"

This article is a must read:

http://thelangarhall.com/literature/jk-rowlings-controversial-new-book-casual-vacancy-has-sikhs-in-uproar-because-of-a-lack-of-exoticism-sections-on-naan-bread-are-limited-and-the-aroma-of-curry-is-not-even/#more-10768

Does anyone know what was the last shabad uchaard by Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee & how old would Guru Sahib have been then?

Curioustoknow...there is a youtube channel called 'Basics of Sikhi'. In his short video's he's answered alot of your questions...if you are a genuine seeker of truth then i would suggest you take some time to go through his video's.

self cutting is a huge problem amongst youth belonging to all faiths....i came across a case of a Gursikh girl not too long ago.

But there is another issue...i think Emo culture makes cutting oneself cool, so kids going into that sangat will also be more likely to cut themselves but for social status.

All kids are growing up too fast nowadays. I remember when i was 14...i knew nothing & my life was so simple. It's just not the same today...there is so much pressure to get a good education, to do after school sports/clubs, not to mention the sexualisation of TV/movies...it's a really tough time to be a teenager. I think we Sikhs need to look at these things to help support our teenagers, else we're going to lose alot of kids to drugs or atheism.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/09/14/religious-young-people-jew-sikh-buddhist-christian_n_1883948.html

A survey published this week found more young people turning away from religion, believing that the definition of being "moral" meant looking after your family rather than taking part in religion.

More than half of the 16 to 24-year-olds questioned in the poll said their peers were less concerned about morals than their parents' generation.

Public perceptions often suggest that younger generations in Britain are less religious than their parents, but what happens to those who buck the trend?

The Huffington Post UK spoke to people from five different faiths who have taken on much more stringent religious practice than their parents, from a city banker who now lives in a Buddhist commune, to a Sikh who worried his family with his faith.

Read their stories and tell us your experiences about faith and religion, and whether you think they still hold relevance for today's youth, in the comments section below.

Buddhist: Su Yen Tan

SU YEN TAN, 30, YOGA TEACHER, BETHNAL GREEN, EAST LONDON

I grew up in Malaysia in a Buddhist family, following a Chinese tradition, interwoven with Taoism. My family had a shrine at home, we would burn incense but we certainly were not vegetarian.

That was pretty much it, although I do think the ethics of Buddhism filtered through to me. I went to a Catholic school, but I didn't convert, in fact, it made me more determined to be a Buddhist. I decided to buy my own figure for my own shrine when i was 17. It's one I still have.

I dropped away from practicing when I moved to London and I was working in the city as an investment banker. I did attend the Buddhist temple on Oxford Street once or twice a year, but I don't speak very good Chinese, so I found it hard to connect.

I made the decision on the spur of the moment to go on a spiritual Buddhist retreat, which I convinced myself was a yoga retreat. It wasn't, and I think I knew that deep down. It was really inspiring.

I began with devotional practice and meditation. I quit my job in 2010, definitely a decision based on Buddhism, to live a more spiritual life.

I am a vegetarian, and I live in a women's Buddhist community attached to the London Buddhist Centre.

My siblings are very happy for me. It's certainly been very hard for my parents, I think they saw it as a rejection of their values.

They are disappointed I am not married, living in the suburbs with two children. But they can see how much happier I am.

Sikh: Harmeet Singh has become more confident since he became religious

HARMEET SINGH, 23, BANK MANAGER AND VOLUNTEER POLICEMAN, LEICEISTER

I certainly don't come from the most religious family, we are traditional Punjabis, used to go to the Sikh temple on a Sunday, and we were taught to believe in God but not much beyond that.

There was a lack of the spiritual side. It seemed ritualist, what we were doing, and my parents and elders couldn't really explain why were doing what we were doing. I started to think, why am I doing this?

I was about 19 when I started asking deeper questions, looking back on it now, I was probably looking to make a change in my life, heading off for university on a very uncertain path.

There are a lot of pressures to do with the opposite sex, drinking culture. It was a way for me to control myself, in a way.

I started researching Sikhism on the internet, looking at the teachings and the history. I was amazed about how much I didn't know. So much was different to what I had been taught, it's like the teachings were Chinese whispers that had got distorted.

I used to spend my time watching TV or on the XBox, but now I'm reading, spending time with new people, playing classical Indian instruments. I have become so much more confident.

A younger Harmeet, before he became religious

My parents came to this country for a better life, worked so hard to give us shelter and put food on the table. They don't use a computer, they can't research this themselves and they don't have time.

I think they were worried about me becoming religious, I don't eat meat, I have grown a beard and wear a turban.

They were worried about me fitting in, whether i'd be able to get a job - and it's understandable.

But as time has gone on, they have become less resistant to it. You do get extremists in any religion and I know they were worried about that. But I want to show them how balanced I am, in fact, it has made me more tolerant of all colours, types and faiths, as well as my own.

PROPERTY MANAGER AVROHOM, 25, AND NURSEY TEACHER ROCHEL JASON, 24, HENDON, NORTH LONDON

Avrohom: We both came from traditional families, we had strong Jewish identities but we were not particularly observant. I did go to a Jewish school, but my wife, who grew up in America, didn't. But we were certainly proud to be Jewish.

We both went to the University of Sussex, and we started attending Friday night dinners and festivals organised by a Jewish charity called Chabad, run by Rabbi Lewis in Brighton.

The process was very gradual. Jewish law is very complex, like dietary laws and laws for the observance of Shabbat.

I think most of all I was inspired by the learning and the texts and allowed them to permeate. Now we have completely changed our lives in every single respect, it has been a truly amazing thing.

Rochel: We were actually exploring more and more about Judaism independently of each other, not because of meeting one another.

I don't think we could go from doing nothing to doing everything. You learn about a certain law you should observe and then you think, 'OK, well, I'm going to try and do this myself.'

Some boys I know who became religious wanted to start putting on tefillin [a set of small black leather boxes containing scrolls of parchment inscribed with verses from the Torah, which are worn by observant Jews during weekday morning prayers] straight away, others want to start by not driving on Shabbat.

If there ever was a barrier between us and our families before, it has gone now we have had our baby, our parents are just so desperate to see their grandson! He has given everyone a new focus, when you look at a child, he loves all of his family, no matter who they are.

It has given us so much happiness, there is something really beautiful about being true to a tradition and a way of life that has been followed for thousands of years.

Christian: James Hellem attends church twice every Sunday

JAMES HELLEM, 29, HEALTH PHYSICIST, FROM SILCHESTER, HAMPSHIRE

My parents don't really go to church, I used to go with them very occasionally growing up, I went to a CofE school and a Christian youth club from age 11 to 15.

I was young when I started going to church more, around 13. But it was when I went to university in 2006 that I really started to take it seriously. Now, I attend church twice every Sunday, every week.

I did physics at university, and I'm sure that was about trying to understand the world better, how things work. I realised that physics can't explain everything. Now I try to follow what it says in the Bible about how to live, it has made me much more confident about what I can and can't achieve with my life.

Neither of my brothers have any interest but my parents have actually been positive about it. Sometimes they think it is silly giving money to a church, I think that's the only part they have any concern about.

When I first began going to church regularly, I wanted to talk about it all the time and tell everyone about it. I have become really conscious of not sounding preachy, it really gets people's backs up, it can upset and annoy them.

I had a long vichar with a vidiyarthi of damdami taksaal (Bhai Onkar Singh) and he said something very interesting. He said the whole of Sri Dasam Granth is from the pen of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee but he said that any Bani that starts with Sri Mukhavaak p10 (or something similar) is Guru Sahib telling us that this is Dhur Ki Baani from Sachkand. Anything else is Guru Sahib re-telling historical myths/stories. He said Guru Sahib took the power away from the Brahmins by making Ramayan etc more accessible to the masses by re-telling it in Punjabi.

This is not to be seen that Guru Sahib worshipped Sri Ramchandar or Sri Krishan Bhagwan as Guru Jee only retold old legends to destroy the power of the Brahmins, which they had held on to tight by keeping everything in Sanskrit (the language only accessible to the upper castes). That being said, we can still take lessons from their lives too...but nothing more than that!

well worth reading...probably not the best written but your make your point quite clearly!

I look forward to your write up on Krishan Bhagwan!!!

Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee Bhindranwale in Gurbani Paath Darpan openely say that arti with thaal & diva have no relevance in Sikhi and only keertan of Arti/Arti Artaa sould be done...so for me i'd rather listn to them!!!

well it seem obvious that even in this country our so called sikh councils - federations - british sikh councils - what have they achieved even if we can't wear the kirpan here ?

actually best not to go - and waste time looking at the riches stolen by these goons from around the world - money is better spent elsewhere

What have you done then?

I would strongly suggest you actually do some research on the above listed orgs before making such baseless accusations!

Does anyone else find it bit odd that the 2 events (sedgley street & tividale) are set for same day?

Wasn't itc actually Kuldeep Singh Chaheru who was very outspoken in his negative comments against Sikh Channel & Bal?

Vitamin D in Milk ? Is it the actual effective D3. Pasteurized dairy should be avoided. It only contributes to mucus build up, increasing chance of getting a cold, acne, asthma etc.

Is it ok to drink non-homogenised pasteurised milk?

I agree with Singh, Mahan. Also this Devgan guy has refused to edit the promo video on youtube...which for me is totally unacceptable and just shows how weak the SGPC are. I wonder what stance AISSF has on the youtube promo not being editted what-so-ever?

I dont know enough about the life and times of Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranewale to classify which side, but from what I do know and from previous posts I Have read here somebody posted that Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranewale had respect for Puratan maryada..i.e: when visiting Budha Dal he would take goats for Jhatka. Theres also writings of Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranewale analysing the difference between true jang vidiya and "fake" demonstartion art or jahir Gatka. Theres also Katha of Dasam Granth by Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranewale.

The above concepts dont fit in with traits of the Singh sabha movement...under whos tenure the Dasam Granth disapeared / was removed from Harmandir Sahib...probably under British influence,

The writings you refer to are Gurbani Paath Darpan, In it Sant Jee discusses the importance of shaster vidiya. May i also mention that in the same Gurbani Paath Darpan, Sant Gurbachan Singh states that do to Arti (or Arti Arta) with a Thaal & Diva is manmatt and something that this not inline with Gurmat. This is something that Hazoori Singh/Nihangs call "puratan maryada".

The point is not that budha dal jathedars were automatically akal takht jathedars. This is not the case. But in a lot of cases the akal takht jathedar and Buddha dal jathedar were the same Peron, why ? Because they are most strict in rehit,they live and die for puratan maryada there is no acceptance of deviation or change to puratan maryada. This is why the British with the help of singh sabhian sympathisers sought to remove the influence of Buddha dal within the panth following the Anglo Sikh wars. Compare Punjab gurdwaras to takht sri hazur sahib and you'll see some of the changes and corruption of puratan maryada that has taken place.

One question Cisco Singh...in your opinion, does Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale come under the puratan maryada side or the Singh Sabha side?

Akal Takht was the only Takht during the times of the Gurus and well into the 19th Century. So the claim that Budha Dal that they are the Panjvan Takht is of recent vintage probably going back to the 1920s. You can only be a Panjvan Takht when there are four already accepted Takhts. Now if the Budha Dal claimed to be a Doosra or Dooja Takht then that would imply that their claim could go back to when Budha Dal came into existence in 1730s.

The reason i personally don't beleive that the Jathedar of Budha Dal automatically is the Jathedar of Sri Akhal Takhat Sahib is becuase Bhai Mani Singh was both the Head Granthi & Sri Akal Takhat Sahib Jathedar and he was not and has never been the Jathedar of Budha Dal. So even though Akali Phula Singh was Jathedar but as prior to him, Bhai Mani Singh was too the Jathedar shows that Budha Dal's Jathedars don't automatically assume the role of the Jathedar of Sri Akal Takhat Sahib.

I don't accept Budha Dal being the Panjva Takhat. Up until 1966, there was only 4 takhats (Damdama Sahib became the 5th in 1966), so with only 4 Takhats, the Fifth Takhat was the Khalsa Panth and not solely Budha Dal

Thanks for this clarification. Why did Baba Balbir Singh have control over Baba Santa Singh Ji?

Balbir Singh was Baba Santa Singh's Garvaee Singh (close attendant) and did his seva...some say that when Baba Santa Singh became ill, Balbir Singh is supposed to have forcefully taken control of property through forced thumb prints and so he took control over Budha Dal by force. Today, some accept him as Jathedar out of fear/greed/apathy, while others have boycotted him. Hence why you now have Baba Surjeet Singh also being seen as the Jathedars of Budha dal and his absence while in jail, it is Baba Joginder Singh (Rakba).

Adding to the point of proactive jee, western born Nihangs very often say they don't recognize Akal Takhts authority because they claim that rightfully the Akal Takht belongs to them not the SGPC appointed Jathadar. Fine, but then why did Baba Santa Singh Ji seek khima to his Bhul at the same Akal Takht Jathadar who is appointed by the same SGPC that they don't recognize. Some statements by western Nihangs just don't add up.

The answer given is for the ekta (unity) of the panth...but my question back is always, why wasn't Baba Santa Singh thinking about ekta/unity when the dharam yudh morcha was taking place?

My personal opinion is that Baba Santa Singh DID consider himself to be the rightful Jathedar of Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib, hence he would never have gone to get Tankha. I beleive he was coerced to do so by Baba Balbir Singh to ensure he (Balbir Singh) was recognised as the next jathedar of Budha Dal by SGPC, but this could only happen if Budha Dal was recognised once again by the panth, so this could only happen if Baba Santa Singh went pesh. So in my opinion and may others from the Dal panth, is that they beleive Baba Santa Singh was actually forced to go pesh and him going pesh would never have happened if it wasn't for his ill health and Baba Balbir Singh's control over him physically.

Baki Maharaaj jane!

At Sant Kartar Singh Ji Bhindranwale's Barsi this year, Giani Thakur Singh Ji said live on stage, whilst being broadcast on sikh channel that Baba Santa Singh is Sachkand vasi.

I have the upmost respect for Gianni Takhur Singh, but who really can say who is or is not in Sachkhand? Maybe Baba Santa Singh is, but it's still true that he will always be know as gadar for his role in the 1980's. That being said, since he accepted Tankha for his actions and admitted his mistake, then we shouldn't keep bringing it up again and again.

There are Sikh oral traditions - seena basina traditions (passed on generations to generations) i.e - jhatka, sukha, seva of horse, shastarvidya etc to keep sikh martial chivalry hertiage alive, then there are Sikh spiritual traditions based on Gurbani i.e - panj granthi, das granthi nitneem, kirtan, arti-arta etc. As soon as minute extra is spent on oral traditions and prefered over spiritual tradtions based on Gurbani not just nihang but any sikh, one loooses plot on Sikhi.

In puratan times, Nihang Singhs are known for their shud dasam guru bani, countless bani from aad guru granth sahib memorized on lips but these days its other way around, except for their jathedars most of them and youths spent all day engaging (discussing or debating) oral traditions so so much they are going away from spritual traditions, just empty vessel bigging up their oral traditions- jhatka, sukha, farla (reduced to fashion garment) etc.

Dressing up like a nihang singh has become a social status for youths abroad these days but inside usually youths are spiritualy bankrupt as they are preferring oral traditions over spiritual traditions..

Excellent post...i think applies to Taksali's, AKJ's etc too. In a nutshet it applies to us all really!

Nihangs must have fine balance just like their jathedars..Even their jathedars mahapursh, they only perform jhatka or sukha only on big occasions like jor melas rather than every day event which so called youth nihangs engage like it some high school party..!!!!

To be honest, this is what i was told this too, but when Baba Joginder Singh (Buddha Dal) came down to UK, he used to drink too much Sukha on a daily basis...which has now changed my perseption to believe that even most of the jathedars do (not all though)

Vaheguroo