Gurvah

Come on people, over 200 views but only 10 votes?

It only takes 10 seconds max..

Thanks

I too find it hard to concentrate on PC's screens, but kindles or proper ebooks readers are very different. I am not refering to pdf's, but proper ebooks where you can cutomize things like font type, size layout to suit you.

With the trend of ebooks now increasing compared to physical hardbacks and paperbacks I am just wondering how many people on here read books on electronic devices such as Apple iBooks, Amazon Kindle, Barnes & Noble Nook etc.

How much would you pay for sikhi related books assuming that any proceeds from the books will go back into making more similar products and not for personal benefits.

Please complete the poll.

Please don't take me wrong, I am not saying that the comments/accusations people have against sikhri may not be valid, but I think we need to make sure that these are infact true and not interpretations of smaller things and results of personal vendettas which commonly occur nowadays in local communities to put other who are on the opposite 'party' down.

Can people making these claims please validate these for the benefit of the sangat?

Any pics of them taking GGSji in a suitcase or serving meat in camps?

It might be an idea to email Harinder Singh directly and get these things clarified?

I have heard him speak a few times and cannot think of any examples of him saying anything controversial. That's my personal view, but obviously thats not enough to say that the concerns of other people are not valid.

So he iz c ing good wher u canot c it mayB? Pleas sho wot bit of gurbani dey alterd 4 themselfs?

From what I have understood, I don't think they changed Gurbani, but have suggested that the Dohra which is recited after ardas used to be slighlty different from the one used today. Not sure where they reference this from though? perhaps someone else can shed some light.

Special program LIVE on Sikh Channel Sky 840.

Kirtan from 5.30pm UK today

followed by veehar program on 50th anniversary of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh & Akhand kirtani jatha UK..

www.sikhchannel.tv

Please watch & forward!

Special program tomorrow morning (Sunday)

10 am - 12 pm Seminar & presentation on life of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh.

12pm - laying foundation stone of monument in memory of shaheeds

1pm - amrit sanchar

5pm - 5am - reainsabhai kirtan

Will be live on Sangat tv...

Well done to Baaj party! Not saying sohis an angel, but I'm glad Malhi lost.

Although the current committe did a lot of good stuff, most of it was done by the poeple no longer standing, coz they couldnt stand Malhi anymore, as he was a complete controll freak.

Waheguru

I

f you read my reply above, I said I was asking a question. There is a difference between writing and compiling. Writing is actually writing it, while compliling is putting something together. Like an Amrit Keertan Pothi, the bani is written by Guru Sahib, but the pothi was compiled by Gursikhs early on this century. So I am not questiong whether Guru Gobind Singh wrote this, but more so whether he compiled or put it together. Gutkay contain bani written by guru sahib, but they didnt compile them..

He put it togther during his life time.That is why his hand written pages known as khas patras are there.He had scribes and his corrections do appear in beer.

Unfortunately this beer was lost during sack of Anandpur and later sold to a sikh by a pathan.It is still held by a private house.

Second beer compiled in 1698 is at patna sahib.

Afterwards Baba Binod singh, baba deep singh, bhai mani singh had written there own beers. To doubt such gursikhs is a sin since they had been companions of Guru sahib.When their beers were matched contents were more or less same.

I am not doubting mentioned gursikhs - again you are assuming!!

More or less the same?? SO if some wrote a copy of Guru Granth Sahib ji which was more or less the same, with a few extras, or a some bits missing, would you accept it as the same granth which was installed as our living guru in 1708 by Guru Gobind Singh?

Mate, you are not making sense.

1. "Compiled by who?" - Yes I did say that, I am asking a question here and having a discussion, not making a statement. I don't know who compiled it, so I am asking the question.

2. "Completely knowing that the Dasam Granth has been mixed with peoples own writings." I DIDN'T write that as I said in my reply above. That is from the last sentence of Tony's post.

Get Your facts straight!!

1)

You wrote

quote by Gurvah

I Never said that there was no beer around Guru Sahibs times

Now you write that compiled by who? Since beer was compiled during Guru sahib's time who else can compile.His hand written pages are there in beer.

Let us restrict this to one thread only.

I Never said that there was no beer around Guru Sahibs times

That was in reply to you saying that I said there was no beer around then. So I am saying that I didn;t say that!!

Now you write that compiled by who? Since beer was compiled during Guru sahib's time who else can compile.His hand written pages are there in beer.

If you read my reply above, I said I was asking a question. There is a difference between writing and compiling. Writing is actually writing it, while compliling is putting something together. Like an Amrit Keertan Pothi, the bani is written by Guru Sahib, but the pothi was compiled by Gursikhs early on this century. So I am not questiong whether Guru Gobind Singh wrote this, but more so whether he compiled or put it together. Gutkay contain bani written by guru sahib, but they didnt compile them..

Let us restrict this to one thread only.

You started it in two threads, I am happy to discuss it here.

Why did Guru Sahib not say anything about Dasam granth then in 1708 when he installed Guru Granth Sahib ji as the eternal Guru?

There is no clarity on this matter which is why no knows for sure. Although I do believe the bani was Guru Gobing Singh ji's, it is not correct to propagate that it is Sri "Guru" Dasam Granth???

So now you are revealing yourself.It is always good to talk straight.

None is promoting it as Guru. So please correct your statement. SGGS ji is our guru.Such statements emanate from gurnindak organizations like Singh sabha canada and missioanries to mislead sikhs.

At the same time Dasam granth is our second most sacred scriptpure that was always in parkash alongside SGGS ji after guru sahib left this world. Its parkash was lifted in 1944 from Akal takhat by SGPC,. This is the result we are getting now that people ahve gone to the extent of disowning it.

In the same tone i ask you where is it written that guru sahib gave gurgaddi to SGGS ji.

This is not to doubt the position of SGGS which is our Guru. It is to ask those who are detractors of Dasam granth why such regulations are applied to Dasam Granth only?

Accepted that I haven;t seen anywhere in this debate promoting Dasam Garanth as Guru , but I have seen it in previous posts elsewhere. Thank you for claryfing that. Bani in SDGS can not be disowned as we read it everyday in our nitnem and as part of amrit sanchar.

written by Gurvah in anotehr thread

Completely knowing that the Dasam Granth has been mixed with peoples own writings.

making duplicate statements is not a sikh way

LOL get you facts straight first I never said that - someone called Tony did if you read properly..

Tony, on 21 December 2009 - 10:00 AM, said:

Fateh . . .

3. We all read in the dohra: "Guru Granth Ji Manyo Pargat Guran ki Deh" however, now we are stating that look we dont believe in what our Guru ORDERED; but we will go against it and will do the path and satkar of Dasam Grant like it is Guru Granth Sahib. Impact: dilution of the overall impact of Sikh religion and its faith and teachings. Completely knowing that the Dasam Granth has been mixed with peoples own writings.

Accusing people of things they haven't said is not the Sikh way either my friend

That is my bad. Let us see your statements. you are saying same thing in a different way

You wrote

Compliled by who?

Then in anotehr post you write

Quote

Completely knowing that the Dasam Granth has been mixed with peoples own writings.

That means you do not believe Dasam being bani of tenth master. That is what other gurnindaks are saying.

Mate, you are not making sense.

1. "Compiled by who?" - Yes I did say that, I am asking a question here and having a discussion, not making a statement. I don't know who compiled it, so I am asking the question.

2. "Completely knowing that the Dasam Granth has been mixed with peoples own writings." I DIDN'T write that as I said in my reply above. That is from the last sentence of Tony's post.

Get Your facts straight!!

LOL get you facts straight first I never said that - someone called Tony did if you read properly..

Tony, on 21 December 2009 - 10:00 AM, said:

Fateh . . .

3. We all read in the dohra: "Guru Granth Ji Manyo Pargat Guran ki Deh" however, now we are stating that look we dont believe in what our Guru ORDERED; but we will go against it and will do the path and satkar of Dasam Grant like it is Guru Granth Sahib. Impact: dilution of the overall impact of Sikh religion and its faith and teachings. Completely knowing that the Dasam Granth has been mixed with peoples own writings.

That is my bad. Let us see your statements. you are saying same thing in a different way

You wrote

Compliled by who?

Then in anotehr post you write

Quote

Completely knowing that the Dasam Granth has been mixed with peoples own writings.

That means you do not believe Dasam being bani of tenth master. That is what other gurnindaks are saying.

Mate, you are not making sense.

1. "Compiled by who?" - Yes I did say that, I am asking a question here and having a discussion, not making a statement. I don't know who compiled it, so I am asking the question.

2. "Completely knowing that the Dasam Granth has been mixed with peoples own writings." I DIDN'T write that as I said in my reply above. That is from the last sentence of Tony's post.

Get Your facts straight!!

written by Gurvah in anotehr thread

Completely knowing that the Dasam Granth has been mixed with peoples own writings.

making duplicate statements is not a sikh way

LOL get you facts straight first I never said that - someone called Tony did if you read properly..

Tony, on 21 December 2009 - 10:00 AM, said:

Fateh . . .

3. We all read in the dohra: "Guru Granth Ji Manyo Pargat Guran ki Deh" however, now we are stating that look we dont believe in what our Guru ORDERED; but we will go against it and will do the path and satkar of Dasam Grant like it is Guru Granth Sahib. Impact: dilution of the overall impact of Sikh religion and its faith and teachings. Completely knowing that the Dasam Granth has been mixed with peoples own writings.

Accusing people of things they haven't said is not the Sikh way either my friend

and FYI I have no issue with Taksal or barsi of Baba Takhur Singh.

It is always appropriate to have these separately.

But your query went further than arrangements.You had said that there was no beer of Dasam Granth sahib during Guru sahib's time. That was a remark on the hsefulness of the whole exercise. My reply was in response to that.

I Never said that there was no beer around Guru Sahibs times

You certainly wrote given below. Do you deny that

Completely knowing that the Dasam Granth has been mixed with peoples own writings.

What does it mean.

LOL get you facts straight first I never said that - someone called Tony did if you read properly..

Tony, on 21 December 2009 - 10:00 AM, said:

Fateh . . .

3. We all read in the dohra: "Guru Granth Ji Manyo Pargat Guran ki Deh" however, now we are stating that look we dont believe in what our Guru ORDERED; but we will go against it and will do the path and satkar of Dasam Grant like it is Guru Granth Sahib. Impact: dilution of the overall impact of Sikh religion and its faith and teachings. Completely knowing that the Dasam Granth has been mixed with peoples own writings.

and FYI I have no issue with Taksal or barsi of Baba Takhur Singh.

It is always appropriate to have these separately.

But your query went further than arrangements.You had said that there was no beer of Dasam Granth sahib during Guru sahib's time. That was a remark on the hsefulness of the whole exercise. My reply was in response to that.

I Never said that there was no beer around Guru Sahibs times

Compliled by who?

Many times people project them scholars without knowing details.It is better to learn our history before doubing it.

Compiled by Guru Gobind singh ji in 1696.

Why did Guru Sahib not say anything about Dasam granth then in 1708 when he installed Guru Granth Sahib ji as the eternal Guru?

There is no clarity on this matter which is why no knows for sure. Although I do believe the bani was Guru Gobing Singh ji's, it is not correct to propagate that it is Sri "Guru" Dasam Granth???

As per the previous years and what the gurdvara sahib commitees agree to, the sevadaars have always done amrit velah divaans, talks, amrit sanchaar and eve divaans whilst an akhand paat sahib jee is happening, its the same as what happens at sri darbaar sahib jee, kirtan happens in the main darbaar, akhand paats are happening directly above, and katha at manji sahib in the complex of sri darbaar sahib, whilst all this is happening the kirtan can be heard everywhere.

If someone wants to listen to gurbani, then they can listen to the akhand paat sahib, some prefer to listen to kirtan aswell, hence the kirtan darbaar and to cater for those who want gyaan there is katha... When the original barsi thread was started we did ask for sangats suggestions, and thse who emailed, we have listened to and are trying to cater for the sangat, hence the gurmat veechar, amrit sanchaar and the ** LIVE BROADCAST** as per the wishes of the sangat.

In previous years gurvah has been banned and tried to question taksal, the barsi etc, so this is nothing new, however its nice to know your views havnt changed.

Well this is a discussion forum, so I forgive me discussing questions I have on here.

What I was trying to get at is, is the kirtan, akhand paath happening in the same place or are there different halls? Doesn't make sense to make have the sehaj paath bhog for dasam granth and akhand paath going on at the same time..

Maybe people of ur level of brahm dhiaan and giaan can listen to 60 bani's being read to at the same time but most of us with lower level avastha find it hard to comprehend even one.

and FYI I have no issue with Taksal or barsi of Baba Takhur Singh.

So if you cant do parkah of any other granth then you cant do any katha of any other granth. What happens when people do rehraas from a Gutka, isnt that also doing parkash of a granth?

There is a difference between doing paath from a pothi/gutka, and bow down to it as the jot of Guru Sahib. I haven;t got a problem with reading Dasam granth bani, but Guru Gobind Singh, made Guru Granth Sahib the Living, not Dasam granth, that was compiled after.

Dasam granth was compiled during Guru sahib's time.That was hazuri beer.

It was always parkash till 1944. It is Guru sahib's bani.

Compliled by who?

The Katha, Keertan and Paath Smaagam is one such effort

Waheguroo

Indeed, but one needs to be practical as well. By all means do Katha, Kirtan, Paath, Vichar, but remain focused on what you are doing. Can you truly say that while listening to kirtan, you can listen and concentrate on doing paath as well?? Why make it so awkward for yourself when there is no need?

Akahand path of Sri Guru Granth Sahib is not something to be done in background. it is just as important as kirtan, It is guru sahib's bachan..`

when you go and you are sitting there listening/wathcing 2 things happening at once, aks yourself truly whether you are concentrating, understanding and focusing on both, or are you just watching what is happening, and hoping (with sharda) that it all becomes implanted within you

I'm trying to concentrate, focus and understand on where the mics are on in the Divan. Even if there is only one thing happening, how many of us can honestly say that we have full focus on gurbani paath, keertan or katha? Our only hope is shardhaa and Ardaas to Maharaaj Jee. Gurbani and Naam will only become implanted within you with Guroo Sahib Jee's Kirpaa. If Guroo Sahib Jee is merciful, then it will happen; it will not happen in any other way, regardless of whether there is one paath happening, or as per the programme for Guroo Gobind Singh Jee's Avtaar Purab and Sant Baba Thakur Singh Jee's Barsi.

Waheguroo

Very True! Without his kirpa, none of us able to do anything! However, we can make an effort, we have to do the ardas, we have to try and read, vicahr bani...

So if you cant do parkah of any other granth then you cant do any katha of any other granth. What happens when people do rehraas from a Gutka, isnt that also doing parkash of a granth?

There is a difference between doing paath from a pothi/gutka, and bow down to it as the jot of Guru Sahib. I haven;t got a problem with reading Dasam granth bani, but Guru Gobind Singh, made Guru Granth Sahib the Living, not Dasam granth, that was compiled after.

Come and attend, and you will see/feel/hear/smell/sense the Anand for yourself. The game of pyaar and shardha and satkaar for Guroo Sahib Jee will show any one how all these things at once enhance the spiritual bliss - the spiritual energy can only be experienced, not described. Where the pyaar, shardha and satkaar are not present, you are right that multiple paaths and keertan happening at the same time will not have the desired spiritual effect.

Waheguroo

It is hard enough to listen, understand and implant the understanding of listening to one thing, - there is no way that you can listen to path and kirtan at the same time. Perhaps if you are Brahmgyani level, but be honest, how many of us can say we are, or know or anyone who is at that level.

If I wasn't busy, I would definately come, but when you go and you are sitting there listening/wathcing 2 things happening at once, aks yourself truly whether you are concentrating, understanding and focusing on both, or are you just watching what is happening, and hoping (with sharda) that it all becomes implanted within you.