chatanga

If you are moving to the south of the city it's better. there are no areas where there are Sikhs in any numbers. Only Shelton has any kind of asian presence but they are mostly pakistanis.

Why do you want to move there?

He was sharing a platform with Mohammad Izhar Alam Khan (killer of sikh youths in 1980s and 1990s). How does the head of damdami taksal sit on the same platform as a muslim who killed sikh youths in punjab? Whats going on here? Badal is friends with Mohammad Izhar Alam Khan because they are both non-sikhs. But a so called leader of the most highly respected institution damdami taksal is now happily mixing with killers of Sikhs.

Did Baba Thakur give a killer of sikhs kps gill a glass of milk when he went to Mehta Chowk, or not?

I would be obliged if you could provide a link to this katha. I can't find any links dealing with the angs where Kirpal Das is mentioned in Sant Ji's Dasam Granth Viakhaya. Sant Ji may say something about where he acquired this belief.

No, you are quick enough when it comes to posting insults and what-not, so yu should be equally determined to do you rown research. Take your tijme and go throught the entire library of katha by Sant Jarnail Singh and you will find it.

The difference is that the pictures of the Sants are before the people sitting near them had done their evil deeds.Dhumma is sitting near them After they had carried out genocide. Had the Sants known what they were going to do they would have dealt with them.

Ok, so it's not the being on the same stage but the fact that Baba Harnam Singh was unable to do anything? So the goalposts change again? What do you think would have happened in this situation if Sant Sunder SIngh or Baba Thakur Singh were in Baba Harnam Singh's place?

I wouldn't have had occasion to make the remark to which you've taken such disproportionate offense.

It's not disproportionate. You used his body shape as a means of ridicule, now when you are told that there was another SIkh like him, you backtrack and come up with umpteenth excuses. Better not to say anything in the first place.

Please provide an extract from a historical granth which authenticates your claim that Mahant Ji was as fat as Harnam Dhumma. Maharaj makes no such claim when he mentions the Udaasi in Sri Dasam Granth.

Listen to the katha of his story by SJS.

This strange backwards act of Dhumma forcing himself on DamDami Taksal is underhanded and completely not in accordance with DamDami Taksal ethics and morals. The students of DamDami Taksal who appointed him did so out of arrogance.

So you are claiming thay the majority of the students from the Taksal were arrogant? That's some claim.

This is where the Dhumma clan will want to hide or alter the history of how Sant Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa became the next Jathedar after Sant baba Kartar Singh ji.

So in the 12 odd years since Baba Harnam Singh became mukhi, how many of his "clan" have altered or hidden this history?

When asked and pressured by students of the Taksal, Baba ji had always given the response Sant Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa is the Jathedar. If anyone was going to appoint the next Jathedar of Taksal, it would have been Sant Baba Thakur Singh ji because he was trusted by Sant Baba Kartar Singh ji to appoint the next Jathedar after him. Gursikhs like Bhai Gurdev Singh ji Kaunke were around after the attack of 1984 to be appointed as the next Jathedar of Taksal. Yet Baba ji did not appoint anyone. If anyone deserved the dastar, it was Bhai Gurdev Singh ji Kaunke.

You are jumbling your history up on purpose here. No one disputed the fact the Baba Thakur SIngh was acting head of the Taksal in Sant Ji's absence. Jathedar Kounke was shaheed around early 90s. Even upto that time no-one questioned who would be the next head. If they did, Baba JI would say that Sant JI is the one to make this decision, he will be back to make it. But it was accepted all the time, that Baba Ji would not nominate any successor. It was over ten after Jathedar Kounke that Baba Ji passed away.

Some have and make the argument, after Sant Baba Thakur Singh ji, somebody had to lead the Taksal.

And what is wrong with that? If any of the Taksal students thought it was wrong, they wouldn't have bothered to choose a new leader.

This weak attempt falls on deaf ears because only Sant Baba Thakur Singh ji could have appointed the next Jathedar, if there was going to be one. The argument stops at Baba ji saying the Jathedar is still Sant Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa.

So you would still have us all waiting for Sant Jarnail Singh to return to Panjab in that time?

To the person who started this thread:

Why did Baba Thakur Singh refuse to name a successor? What reply did he give to those who asked and why?

What a total non-sequitur. I wasn't insulting all short overweight people, least of all Mahant Kirpal Das. I was insulting Dhumma. Not all short and overweight people look like fantasy dwarves. Harnam Dhumma does. A joke works better when you don't have to explain it.

Why? You make fun of Baba Harnam Singh because of his body shape. Why are you insulting because of this, but can say it doesn't aplply to other people who had the same body shape?

A joke workd better if it is actually a joke, and not just a stupid dig at someone.

Oh please, I wasn't attacking Mahant Ji and you know it.

I know, because Mahant Ji didn't figure at all in your mind when you invented this "joke", but as you now know that Mahant Ji was of a similar physique you have to explain yourself.

bhai sahib I understood but a certain memna doesn't want to let it lie

Why should we let insults and lies lie?

bro major difference is Sant Baba Kartar SIngh ji didn't hesitate to tear the kumund from dusht when he shared stage with them e.g. Guru Teg Bahadur Shaheedi Purab and he tore Indira bibi down in front of sangat of 2 million... Sant Baba Jarnail SIngh ji did the same , he never minced words WHEREAS the latest mukhi derives immense pleasure of lying in Guru ji's hazoori and bigging up the 'sewa' Badal et al, do and did for the kaum. I never saw pictures of Sant Kartar SIngh putting siropa on dusht or sitting at their feet , or even Sant Jarnail SIngh ji ...Sant Kartar SIngh never did beadbhi of standing for entrance worldly VIPs in presence of Guru Sahiban can we say the same of today's man?

So the sharing of the same stage is not a problem? Why are the goalposts always moving with you? At this event was Baba Harnam Singh invited to speak, as were Sant Kartar Singh and Sant Jarnail Singh? No, but he released a statement afterwards saying that firstly he was not told alam would be attending and if alam is given a ticket, there would be no support from from him. Why did badal then not give alam a ticket, ask yourself that.

Difference is Sant Kartar Singh Bhindranwale and Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale would have done jhatka of these individuals with the modern knowledge that they were responsible for countless innocent lives and for attack on Harmandir Sahib.

Agreed, but what about the other ten jathedars of the Taksal before and in between?

I respect Dhadrianwale as a gursikh who is joining people to Gurbani and helping to lift them out of the hopeless situation that they are in . Is he responsible for this NO it is all Guru ji's kirpa : the day he starts to forget that is the day he will fall from grace . I have never heard this guy speak against Dasam Bani when I do he will be put in the keep a distance list , so far I have noticed him calling a spade a spade in terms of the situation in Punjab so I only know him in terms of social commentary.

I used to respect Sant Ranjit Singh a lot as he was doing a lot of good parchar. But ever since he met that dark soul panthpreet (panthpreet has given much details about their friendship in his video speech) he has changed. Panthpreet has had a very negatife effect of hijm, and you can see it in his evasion of direct questions, mimicking the missionary line when asked such questions.

For me it has cleared up another thing, just how close Sant Ranjit Singh is to the missionarys. They were out in force on his day in the sun - panthpreet, dhunda, dhapali, ghagga. what made me a little sad was that they were on the same stage with the some of the same people who they have been lambasting for the last 20 years, Baba ram Singh and Nanaksaris for corrupting the people.

Each ot his own, but the " the day he starts to forget that is the day he will fall from grace" has come. Like me so many people were blind to what way Sant Ranjit Singh has gone, but this bhog day has cleared a lot of things.

You yourself said nobody in your eyes deserves the mukhi spot

Bro, I never said this. I don't know enough members of the Taksal or am close enough to say who does/doesn't deserve to be mukhi.

In his latest video he says SRSD has to apologise first which clearly means he is no Gursikh - full of ego and no shame.

If you haven't raised the first hand then why should it be a bad thing?

The least he can do for now, to ease the tensions a bit, is to apologise unconditionally for the actions of his men.

Yes, this would a long way to ease the tensions.

Dapali couldnt even get the story of the hindu shopkeeper right but let's believe everything else this guy has to say. After all he is a close confidante of panthpreet and therefore has a great influence on jvk of london. Maybe you wish to hear dhapali's views on Dasam bani jkv?

People getting menstrual over Baba Harnam Singh sitting with badal or alam on stage but have no qualms about Sant Ranjit Singh sitting with the athiest missionaries?

Baba Harnam Singh clarified what happened in this case. But if sitting on a stage with people who have caused immense suffering to Sikhs let's add these and recognise Sant Kartar Singh and Sant Jarnail Singh's reality as well.

Words fail me for what kind of a person would bandy this kind of video about, like it was nothing but the truth.

why insult Gimmli he was a jodha

You're happy with the insult towards Udasi Kirpal then?

Teek ah bhai

im a cretin. you aren't wrong

Maybe in the future your posts can include more substance instead of the drivel you have inflicted on this forum re this topic.

Short, fat, big flat face, big puffy mushroom-like nose. He should be in Narnia, not the Damdami Taksaal.

A similiar physique to Udasi Mahant Kirpal then?

Thats beside the point, the point here it is dhumma is supporting/glorifying those violent cold blooded murderers/extremist who a) broke serious maryada of chabeel b) killed fellow innocent person , fellow sikh and injured other innocent sikhs in cold blood assassination plot which makes him just as implicit as those who carried the attacks. This is great wake up call for those who attempts to use deadly brute force violence to address non violent situations to step back and think that you are going against key gurmat sidhant- Dhaul Dharam Daya Ka Poot, you would hurt a innocent person, and you will torn whole family apart including small kids and wife, somebody son, sibling, father. husband.

What a complete savagery, what a contrast to see highest chivalry gurmat teaching enshrined directly in gurbani and comparing those teachings with practical emobiment of those teachings in so called some chela sikhs and so called jathedar of today. Unbelievable. Truth, integrity, earnesyt and embodiment of gurbani teaching is real sikhi rest is all maya and tribal- pendu non sense. This isnt urban vs penduness..this is straight Gurmat vs penduness...take your pick, one transforms you to param hans and gives you liberation and other send you back to fake anakh vicious cycle of ego and pride.

Maybe it's a Taksal thing. Same thing happened to people who criticised Sant Jarnail Singh.

I have a serious question.

Who is responsible in making him the head of DDT? Chatanga can you name them? I am sure Jasbir Singh Rode is one of them. Who else?

Finally something serious after the turds by 559.

AFAIK the students chose the next head. Baba Harnam Singh was chosen and accepted by majority of students of the Taksal inc Bhai Jasvir Singh. But I don't know if there was any sort of heirarchy involved in choosing the next head.

I use to think Baba Thakur Singh ji made him head. But every Taksali Singh I have talked to vehemently denies this.

Baba Thakur Singh refused to elect the next head, as they beleived that Sant Jarnail Singh was alive and would come back to taking his position again. So Baba Ji refused to elect anyone. After Baba Ji, passed away the students between them AFAIK chose Baba Harnam Singh.

I never made it a clear cut case,

Don't bull$hit now. You made a very clear case and I showed that you have nothing but hatred for Baba Harnam Singh in your mind. I know you haven't forgotten it.

but I always knew that Dhuma is a dirty individual. I'm not AKJ and yes I was critical of him, but I don't remember the complete controversy and would you be surprised if I even agreed with Dhuma ?

How did you ALWAYS know? You know him from a long time ago? If you don't remember the complete story why are you running round mouthing off lie you are an expert?

my main gripe from beginning was Dhumma because I have a special place in my heart for Damdami Taksal given the previous Jathedar Sahiban of this Jathebandi and to see a government agent doing bezti of Sikh Panth hurts a lot.

People said exactly the same things about Sant Jarnail Singh. How did you know "from the beginning" that Baba Harnam Singh was a govt agent ?

Re: Sant Jarnail Singh Ji as a congress agent: He proved it with his Shaheedi that he was a Singh of Dhan Guru Gobind SIngh Ji.

"Shaheedi" ?? Who says that Sant Jarnail Singh is shaheed? Doesn't Bhai Amrik Singh Ajnala and others still believe in Baba Thakur Singhs bachan that Sant Ji is alive?

Do you believe that Sant Ji is shaheed? This is what started the divide in the Taksal that you claim to be so fond of. But I'm sure you already knew that.

Also there is proof that dhuma is directly involved with badal and no one will deny his connection with kp gill

Forget people who will deny it. In the next sentence you will deny that Sant Ji is shaheed. Bring on people who will PROVE it.

Re: Kabza: He's allegedly done kabza of an ahasthaan at Anandpur Sahib

Is that it? could equally say that you allegedlystole money from the golak at your loacl gurdwara. Would that be enough grounds to see it as the truth?

Allegedly is good enough for you isn't it, whenever Baba Harnam Singh is involved. You need to move on form being a $hit stirrer.

If you say none and that there is no proof, you're being academically dishonest and completely ignoring the situation of Punjab and how things are run there.

I couldn't care less about badal. Let's talk about academic honesty though. Right now you are coming across as dishonest as one could possibly be.

Yes, legally, even before he opened his mouth he should have been arrested and treated as a prime suspect once they realized who owned the gaddiaan.

How do you know that Baba Ji wasn't questioned by police?

In the Sikh Panth's eyes in the writing of Bhai Chaupa Singh Ji Rehitname he writes:

ਜੋ ਸਿੱਖ, ਸਿੱਖ ਨੂੰ ਜਾਣ ਕੇ ਕੈਦ ਕਰਾਏ, ਲੁਟਾਏ, ਮਰਵਾਏ, ਸੋ ਦੈਂਤ ਜਾਨਣਾ।

That woiuld apply to the men who did the murder, not to Baba Harnam Singh who's involvement or authorisation upto now has not been proven.

Let's start here, but also address rest of my points: old school Taksali Singhs say he had no role in 1984 and wasn't even remotely close to Sant Jarnail Singh Ji.

Who are these old school Taksali Singhs. Have them come on camera and give a statement to such effect. Otherwise I could just respond with 10 people saw this singh559 guy steal money from the golak in the same vein.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Sikh/comments/4koxev/brief_history_on_harnam_singh_dhumma_and_damdami/

Here is full history of dhumma. Watch the video and see him using his cunning language. He had his laalchi eyes on the position from the beginning.

That is just some stupid stuff which only a cretin would recommend fr further reading. You need to stop thi $hit stirring as it will leave you as a non-sikh as per the rehatnama you are so fond of quoting.

Did Baba Dhumma not invent Jake the Snake Roberts DDT special move??

Bhujang prayat?

Baba Santa Singh killed a SIngh ?

I never said he did. I brought it up because you think that it is fine to ask for Baba Harnam Singhs resignation but I'm sure that you would never have contemplated asking the same of Baba Santa Singh if his scenario was played out today.

No need to mention Santa Singh.

Yes there is.

Dhuma is in Punjab by support of Indian government on extended visa. What Bhai Ranjit Singh said about him as being a lapdog of Badal and an agent of kps gill is true. They use their connections with these murderers to do kabza on land and GWs in exchange for supporting them.

So what? Even today idiots still say thet Sant Jarnail Singh was a congress agent. Why not beleive that as well?

What kabzas has he done?

Dhum admitted to supporting the murder of Bhai Bhupinder Singh.

Has he? the only thing I have heard him about them is He said he would support the murderers in their criminal case.

Everyone knew about dhumas reality ages ago and some people made excuses for him and sangat kept quiet but this has crossed the line.

That's just the thing. You don't know about his reality. You know about the last 10/15 years. Tell me what you know about him from 1984 onwards and then we'll see.

Sikh Panth now wants to take back honor of Damdami Taksal and throw these dushts in jail.

Right, so now you are speaking for the whole of the Sikh Panth?

Few things get me emotional but a clear cut case like this is one of them. Chatanga bro surely you agree with what I mentioned above? There really are no two ways about it.

No, bro, I don't agree because you already have a preconceived notion about Baba Harnam Singh. I have seen this from your form on this forum from years.

Rememer your clear cut case of Baba Harnam Singh doing beadbi of bani ? There were two ways then weren't there?

If as he claimed he has given blessing to and finance to the perps then he also implicates himself in the murder of an innocent gursikh thus the adait tankaiya ..

Baba Santa was given blessing and finance to rebuild Sri Akal Takht Sahib. Would you also agree then that Baba Ji was also an "adait tankaiya"?

I wasn't really that political a teenager that was when I was 15 ...I would have hoped Baba ji would have consulted with Sikh jathebandi about how to proceed as then maybe instead building and then destroying and rebuilding would been avoided and we would have better unity by rejecting the GOI intervention and paise and fixed it with golak ourselves in the first place (I believe that is what happened on second rebuild)

So, what if you were 15? You weren't around when the rehitnamas were written but know all about them don't you?

I know that you are totally aware of Baba Santa Singh's role in 1984, so spare me the stories of what you would have hoped.

When the Bandai Khalsa and Tatt Khalsa had issues they arranged a wrestling match to settle their differences. Why could Baba Dhumma and Baba Dhadrianwala not do the same instead of their bs personal attacks against each other on social media which has resulted in the death of a GurSikh.

A wrestling match would be good in theory but in realiity it would be boring. Neither look like they could perform a RKO or a Sister Abigail.

Jathebandia of Taksal should remove Dummy and Baba Ram Singh should be the single jatherdar

So you would replace one person who you say is a dummy, with an even bigger dummy?

When the Bandai Khalsa and Tatt Khalsa had issues they arranged a wrestling match to settle their differences. Why could Baba Dhumma and Baba Dhadrianwala not do the same instead of their bs personal attacks against each other on social media which has resulted in the death of a GurSikh.

A wrestling match would be good in theory but in realiity it would be boring. Neither look like they could perform a RKO or a Sister Abigail.

Jathebandia of Taksal should remove Dummy and Baba Ram Singh should be the single jatherdar

So you would replace one person who you say is a dummy, with an even bigger dummy?

When the Bandai Khalsa and Tatt Khalsa had issues they arranged a wrestling match to settle their differences. Why could Baba Dhumma and Baba Dhadrianwala not do the same instead of their bs personal attacks against each other on social media which has resulted in the death of a GurSikh.

A wrestling match would be good in theory but in realiity it would be boring. Neither look like they could perform a RKO or a Sister Abigail.

Jathebandia of Taksal should remove Dummy and Baba Ram Singh should be the single jatherdar

So you would replace one person who you say is a dummy, with an even bigger dummy?

bingo ! that was the point to tarnish the name of the Taksal in ordinary sikhs' eyes so that they stop listening to Guru Gobind SIngh ji's sikhia for the panth ,

As a fervent supporter of the Nihangs/Dal Panth would you have called for the dismissal/resignation of Baba Santa Singh over his 1984 role, in that case scenario was being played out at this time?

Not to divert the topic, but I would be interested to know.

Also the point I had made if it looks like a sikh, talks like a sikh but does not act a sikh , is it a sikh? the fact that he knows the rehitnamey intimately and yet does so many actions which make him not just tankaiya but adait tankaiya shows he has no business in the post of mukhi. Besides I think the best thing is to avoid corruption of the mukhi post again, have panj piare appointed from all the groups within DDT and then no one will have an upper hand

These rehtinamas would make all the people on this board tankhaiyas woldnt it? I don't recall Baba Harnam Singh talking bad about anyone since he became head of Taksal, but plenty of people talking bad about him. So maybe his intimate knowledge of the rehitnamas means he has maintained a dignified silence (up to now) and maintained the order as per rehitnama, whilst you, and all the others who vilified him lost your dharam.

, the days of using muscle over brain are long gone.

Sometimes you need muscle, but it should always be a last resort. look at the missionaries and how they have been debated and lost but still spread the same lies.

Really sad state of affairs that his chela undertook this murderous cowardly attack under the guise of a chabeel. The same chelas did not find it offensive when pakhandi baba like piara bhaniarewala did real beadbi but got their knickera in a twist over a social media beef.

It is a sad state of affairs.

but we have been down the line of 'sant' type characters betraying Khalsa Panth e.g. 'Sant' Longowal

And Baba Santa Singh, Mukhi of Budha Dal as well?

Don't know. But i'm not convinced about the professional shooter. Who was this professional that shot the guy in the front missing the target sitting in the back seat? Time will tell.