chatanga

Right at the end. about 20 seconds before video ends.

12 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

bros , I'm sorry but I am confused by the results in delhi how is this good ? who are baddies? and why is mud still being slung at vadala ... 

Delhi gurdwaras under the control of Sarna, went to town on missionary ideology. Dhunda, baljit, jachak etc were all given so much time on the stage to spread their venom.

IN the last previous term to this, Akali Dal (Badal) won, and Baba Harnam Singh of Damdami Taksal engineered a revival of samprdaic katha at Delhi Gurdwaras. Harnam Singh himself did katha there, as well as Bhai Gurpreet Singh California, Gyani Banta Singh etc. The true message of Dasam Granth was strongly preached from Delhi Gurdwara stages.

Now the Akali Dal won again by a landslide,  which means it's very good news, as the samprdais can do further parchar of Dasam Granth, and also because it keeps the missionaries out.

4 hours ago, Singh123456777 said:

It's good because the SAD is pro dasam Granth. That's why there has been so much dasam Granth katha at Bangla Sahib for the last few years. The missionaries lost big time. A lot of people are saying vadala is an anti dasam granth person.

Vadala gave a statement in which he said that doing katha of Chandi di war at Sri Bangla Sahib was not in accordance with Gurmat. I was really surprised at this myself.

3 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

err if I am not mistaken SGPC are the ones who usually curtail dasam granth katha and kirtan to keep people in the dark and downbeat about sikhi. ( besides the rabid missionaries)

who are a lot of people because apparently he had a heck of a lot of detractors from both groups

Since Taksal did a gath-jorr with Akali Dal, the preaching of gurmat has started to be done in accordance to the seena-baseena gurbani arth tradition more and more.

SGPC are not against Dasam Granth in terms of preaching. They just don't want to do prakash alongside Guru Granth Sahib of it. Sri Akal Takht Sahib have also told worldwide Sikh sangat in 2008 sandesh, that anti-Dasam granth people must be given befitting replies to their false agenda.

3 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

and the stealing of golaks will continue apace , nothing to cheer about I think

I don't know about the others, but I know about Parmjit Singh Rana through a close friend. Rana is not one of these guys who would steal or misuse sangats money.

1 hour ago, Singh123456777 said:

Shromani Akali dal won!! Gurbar Akaal!!!

I know. It's brilliant news. Paramjit Singh Rana won as well. Added to that, ghagga got a few slaps in malaysia.

Am a little disturbed to see hear that Vadala is anti Dasam granth and disapproved of katha of Chandi di vaar at Dehli gurdwaras.

It is Uttrang Kaur, (Aitken's daughter), and she made a name for herself in her Anandpur locality for being an eco-warrior. She is giving a good message but in a poor fashion. Gurdwaras should be doing more to be eco-aware and recylcing, but eco-awareness is not something elder Panjabis are aware of, given the state of Panjabs soil, water and air. She needs to get the younger Sikhs to take these initiatives on more.

I hope that whichever group Parmjit Singh Rana belongs to gets in. I don't know much about any of the others, but Rana Sahib has done a lot to counter the mischief caused by Sarna and his missionary group. No more dhundas and jachaks.

Paramjit Singh Rana has done a lot to get kathavachaks like Bhai Banta Singh doing more katha of Dasam Patshah's Granth Sahib in Delhi gurdwaras.

On 29/01/2017 at 3:48 PM, dallysingh101 said:

 

ਬ੍ਰਿੰਦ ਤੁਰਕ ਭੋਗੈਂ ਹਿੰਦਵਾਨੀ।

ਸਿਖ ਬਦਲਾ ਲੇ ਭਲਾ ਜਨਾਏ।

ਕਯੋਂ ਗੁਰ ਸ਼ਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬਰਜ ਹਟਾਏ? ॥18॥

Here I would take shaastar to mean "law".

On 31/01/2017 at 11:40 PM, dallysingh101 said:

It's in both. And almost verbatim too, so either one was used for the original source of the other - or they both used a common source. However, I notice the last sentence in the Sau Sakhi version, which condones caste doesn't appear to be in the Suraj Prakash version. 

 

Is this online ? I have never jeard of it being translated into english before.

9 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

My thoughts exactly. It's like some appended thing that promotes caste, worked in at the end. 

It is translated to read that, but it is a poor translation of it.

What do you feel about this text looking at the translation 5 years on Dal?

5 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

From your previous post on this forum, it is easy to tell you dislike the type of Singhs who stood up and stopped further slander from being said.  The guy speaking couldn't even speak Punjabi and you want Singhs to have a discussion with him?  What insight could he provide on Sant Baba Thakur Singh ji!  If the guy speaking really wanted to know what was the selfless service Sant baba Thakur Singh ji provided for the panth, he could have went on youtube and easily found videos.  Plus from the video it is evident the guy had no logic or rationale thought in him and only wanted to pick a fight with the sangat.  Looking at the poster, none of what he said was true.  This guy wanted to dishonor a Saint by using the Sahibzaade names in vain.  Singhs stood their ground and the trouble maker was escorted off of the property. 

Save your hate for your high blood pressure and heart diseases.         

For the future the Gurdwara should keep it's private security and let them (Singhs) handle such people on their own.

From your previous posts on this forum, it is easy to tell you dislike the type of Singhs who stood up and stopped further slander of Charitrpakhyan from being said. Looking at the OP it is evident she had no logic or rationale but wanted to post lies here. Singhs stood their ground and she was exposed.

You sided with her doing nindya of Guru Sahib teachings by trying to divert the subject and you were exposed.

For the future you should keep your own malicious agenda to yourself and let the Singhs handle guru nindaks. Its obvious you won't.

Thanks I wsa searching for that video.

Bhana ? Why allow any association with Chandu?

This is the same guy who stated that 10th Guru never wrote Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth. Professor Anurag Singh did a presentation on Bal's lies, and called for him to have a debate with him. Bal refused obviously, and you can see why, the guy can't even put a sentence of Panjabi together.

21 hours ago, hsingh8963 said:

Singh123456777, Chatanga, Dally! Hope you're doing well Jio! It's been awhile!

Any old port in a storm Mr Singh!

Who would even go to that forum, if they wanted to learn about Gurmat anyway?

10 hours ago, proactive said:

As far as I know the boundary commission never had an appeals process.

It was supposed to have one. But it was decommissioned on the day, the final partition was announced. So there was no-one to appeal to after partition happened. The criminal british did it on purpose.

6 hours ago, genie said:

we all know the sikh leadership was either brought off by the british

First it was hthe Brahmans, now its the British?

6 hours ago, genie said:

The sikh population mostly who lived in west punjab and whose homes and businesses and land would now come under a proposed pakistan so they violently opposed partition of punjab.

The Sikhs of West Panjab did little more than defend their own lives and hope to reach East Pakistan.

6 hours ago, genie said:

 He drew a Sword and threatened a demonstration for pakistani by PML which turned violent and many Sikhs killed by muslim mobs due to his idiocy.

This was one of his biggest blunders. The Sikhs had to pay a huge price for this. Still I like the way you have said "many Sikhs" when there was around 7000 killed.

6 hours ago, genie said:

Then he negotiated all of Sikh political interests away to brahmin ruled congress.

By being the first person to be jailed in a free India for sedition?

You worry me. A lot. Your perception of history is based on some kind of paranoia. You can't blame others for everything all the time. we Sikhs made many mistakes over this period. But to say it was down to some conspiracy by the Brahmans or the criminal british is poor.

6 hours ago, genie said:

What would be interesting to know is how he became to represent the Sikhs in the round table talks for independence. What authority or credentials did this failed high school headmaster have to represent the interests and prestige of the once powerful Sikh nation.

Read about his life and you will find out. 

10 hours ago, proactive said:

The British were quite happy to leave the Punjab as a whole to Pakistan but it was the agitation by the Sikhs that forced them to deny Jinnah the whole of the Punjab.

The British were of the opinion that Panjab should remain undivided and go completely to Pakistan. But <banned word filter activated> was the Congress who using Jinnah's own weapon against him, stating that as the Muslim majority areas cannot be forced to live under India (as part of the two-nation theory) Non-muslim majority areas could not be forced to live under pakistan rule. The British agreed with this and agreed to partition the two states of Panjab and Bengal.

So the two main states, Panjab and Bengal were divided in a similair fashion.

10 hours ago, proactive said:

The Sikh agitation especially to stop the Muslim League minority government from taking power in Punjab was what convinced the British that the Sikhs would never accept Muslim rule in Punjab

The Sikhs never launched any agitation that I know of against ML minority govt, as the muslim league were denied the opportunity to form a govt by the Panjab Secretary who invoked Governor's law after the muslim league brought down the Unionist govt. The muslim league only had 80 mps out of 178 so they couldn't form a government in Panjab by themselves. Governor Jenkins many times refused them on this basis.

10 hours ago, proactive said:

What the Sikhs were violently resisting was a partition line which was splitting the Sikh population in half and placing millions of Sikhs and the Sikh shrines in Pakistan/

What the Sikhs were doing in east Panjab was trying to kill as many muslims as they could whilst they had the chance to, and the West Panjab Sikhs were trying to escape with their lives. At that time, the East Panjab Sikhs  should have focused on the border villages of Lahore/Amritsar/Gurdaspur that held important Sikh shrines such as Kartarpur etc. They should have occupied these villages and refused to let them go to pakistan.

We have all seen what a mess the pakistanis have made of Sikh heritage there.

10 hours ago, proactive said:

If the population factor was detrimental to the Sikh cause then the Sikh leadership needed to think outside the box. There were the Sikh states which had a population of 3.5 million of which Sikhs were 39%, Hindus 34% and Muslims 24%. So they would have been the nucleus of a Sikh state. With the Muslims gone from these states the Sikhs would have been a majority. These states had treaties with the British and once the British announced they were leaving then these Sikhs should have reverted to the independent status they had before the British came. 

IN an ideal world the Sikh states and the Panjabi Sikhs wold have joined hands. But the Sikh states, esp Patiala, were more pro-Britihs than pro-Sikh. The Maharaja of Patiala and Master Tara Singh never got on. Patiala always supported the British over the SGPC and Akali Dal.

Concerning the Kingdoms/princely states, Mountbatten gave them two ultimatums: join India or Pakistan. None were given a third option. If a huge Kingdom such as Hyderabad couldn't hold out against India, despite being 10 times bigger than all the Sikhs states put together, how could the Sikh Kingdoms?

22 hours ago, genie said:

He is said to have state this “Without political power, Dharma cannot be practised, and without Dharma, the society would be an admixture of scum. Nobody will offer you sovereignty. It will have to be obtained with the force of arms.” - Guru Gobind Singh Ji

Guru Gobind Singh has not written that anywhere, and there is a chance he may have said it. The quote is also attributed to Sardar Jassa SIngh Alhuwalia, but above all it's a quote from Prachin Panth Parkash.

22 hours ago, genie said:

I've read the history of Sikhs by kushwant singh and other sources over the years and I've seen actual secret documents where Nehru communicated he wanted the Sikhs sorted out because they were violently resisting the partition of punjab with armed groups.

Khushwant Singh is a cretin. His books are trading a fine line between sneering and outright contempt at the Sikh faith, the Sikh people, and Sikh future.

As i said before the Sikhs did not resisit partition, they were the ones who called for it in Panjab.

22 hours ago, genie said:

What planet you on. He (nehru) did call Sikhs a tribe of criminals go do your research its all over the web.

I'm on planet earth and i will tell you that it was Chandu Lal Trivedi who called the Sikhs a criminal tribe. Now if you are still claiming it was Nehru, please tell us what planet you are from?

22 hours ago, genie said:

Master tara singh was an agent of the british and the hindutva orgs he was born as a punjabi hindu who later converted to Sikhism to infiltrate Sikh orgs. How did this unknown failed school headteacher come to represent the prestige of the Sikh community who ruled an empire? you living in la la land if you think he wasnt an agent.

Unknown failed teacher? You show your ignorance of his life. Master Tara Singh was not unknown, and not failed either.

22 hours ago, genie said:

I've read actual secret documents from the british authorities of the time that state they were using their PBF troops to prevent Sikh armed groups from preventing partition.

I don't know what you've read, but the partition had already happened and the PBF was there to ensure the peace. How could a body that was created to help with a smooth partition actually prevent, or accelerate partition?

22 hours ago, genie said:

And as for the british killing and trying to convert sikhs what do you think they did when they invaded the Sikh empire? They killed Sikh civilians who resisted after capturing lahore and they raped, pillaged and they tried to convert Sikhs to christianity how you think they got their hundred churchs in punjab and a church at harmandir sahib which was later destroyed by the sikhs.

Ok, so now you have moved from 1947 to 1849?

17 hours ago, genie said:

Guru Gobind singh ji didnt state "without political power everyone will be helpless" for no reason.

Guru Sahib never stated it.

17 hours ago, genie said:

Sikh's did cause alot of trouble for british indian authorities and nehru's congress by trying to prevent the split of punjab.

I don't know what books you have been reading, but you're wrong. It was the Sikhs who wanted partition of Panjab to stop ALL of Panjab going to Pakistan.

17 hours ago, genie said:

Nehru went as far as to call Sikhs (ie those fighting against the division of punjab) as a tribe of criminals.

No he didn't.

17 hours ago, genie said:

They had agents already in place to prevent khalistan/sikhistan (ie master tara singh and baldev singh).

Master Tara Singh was no agent. He was just not politically shrewd or longsighted. But he wasn't an agent.

17 hours ago, genie said:

They had PBF troops in place, they had killed or converted many Sikhs from punjab and prevented Sikhs from organising any real opposition.

The PBF was a hopeless force from day 1. It was wound up after 2 weeks because it was so ineffective. They did have one major encounter with a sikh jatha in Amritsar, where they killed about 62 Sikhs from the jatha.

Your post seems quite full of hysteria more than anything. What books have you read about partition?

20 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

But what has stayed with me more than any of that, is the growth we did together. All the time we spent increasing our vocabulary on that vocab thread, all the translations we knocked our heads on together (the lassi and cha thing was legendary), the manuscripts we looked at together.

Yes, it was subjects like these that made the forum enjoyable. I learned so much from the work that we looked at collectively. Going back to the mad uncle, it was a blessing in disguide having him there, as he in a perverse way, actually got us to look at older historical texts by oursleves rather than just beleiving whatever had been writtne prior.

Cha and lassi... had forgotten about that.

20 minutes ago, proactive said:

From what I have read there was definitely a plan by the Sikh leadership to create Khalistan/Sikhistan in 1947.

The Sikhs did more to plan for a Sih state in Panjab than either the Muslims or HIndus. The only problem was the Sikh state that was envisaged would have a Sikh population of less than 30%. So the British argued how could it actually be a Sikh state. The Sikh population factor was the biggest handicap, followed by our religious heritage being spread all over Panjab. No matter what the Sikhs thought of they couldn't get both together and remain a majority anywhere.

20 minutes ago, proactive said:

 The mistake the Sikh leadership made through Baldev Singh was the accept the Radcliffe award in ADVANCE as did the Congress and Muslim League.

To have blind acceptance of the decision of the Radcliffe line was one of the conditions for an early partition. Both the Muslim League and Congress wanted the British gone as soon as possible, and Mountbatten laid the condition that whatever was decided by the British in terms of partition would have to be accepted by Muslims, Sikhs and Congress. All 3 accepted.

But, and this is a really big but. The scheming devilish Brit-scum, told the 3 groups that there would be an appeal panel called teh Boundary Commission to which all 3 groups could appeal to if they felt the award was unfair to them. But this commission was wound up the day after the final boundary was demarcated (in Lahore) and so there was no actual process of being able to appeal to the Boundary Commission. 

It is a huge injustice that a border village housing "Sr Darbar Kartarpur" was placed inside Pakistan when it could have come to India instead. Then we would have at least had Guru Nanak's jyoti jyot place in our control. Similarly there were 5 other border villages, I mean properly on the border, which housed important Sikh historical Gurdwaras. These could all have easily come to India, if the Boundary Commission was a genuine organisation. But the british devils deliberately used this ploy to dampen down the Sikh fears.

What is also interesting is that the SGPC actually pettitioned the Indian Govt to arrange an exchange of territory in Panjab with the Pakistan Govt, so we could have these precious Gurdwaras in our control, but the indian govt were not interested.

20 minutes ago, proactive said:

When you think about it, had the Sikh leadership both in the British areas and in the Sikh states been better prepared the map of South Asia would have been unrecognisible from what it is today.

Unfortunately, the Sikhs were preoccupied with being anti-muslim league, and anti-britsih rule, and not focusing enough on their future position. that scoundrel nehru pledged to the Sikhs in 1929 that "the Sikhs would be given an autonomous unit wher they could feel the glow of freedom." Yet for the next 18 years the Sikhs didn't develop that further in writing and concrete assurances and ended up where we are now.

18 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

Yes, when I challenge others post,

What challenging did you do on Sikh Awareness?

18 hours ago, genie said:

Well good riddance at the end of the day, the less useless left wing forums there are like sikh awareness the more traffic this place gets.

Why is in-depth learning of Sikh philosophy and Sikh theology "left-wing and/or useless"?

18 hours ago, genie said:

We need proper guidance from learned Sikhs guiding our youth and new sikhs to stay away from the traps of modern society to ensure we have a healthy community for the next decades to come.

Again, how did in-depth learning of Sikh theology and Sikh philosophy work against "proper" guidance from learned Sikhs?

3 hours ago, proactive said:

 That's not the SA I remember. The site was biased towards the Nangs and allowed them full rein to post whatever bukwas they wanted. The site was 'fake news' before fake news became famous.  Lately they allowed their resident Jat hater Dal Singh to turn every thread into a Jat bashing thread. 

The days you are talking about was when the sanatanists were there. They have been long gone from Sikh Awareness.

Do you remember the hindu nationalist "Sher" and others like him and how we used to debate on that forum to combat their lies and propoganda? A year or three ago? The sanantis had long vanished by then.

1 hour ago, Akalifauj said:

I wouldn't be surprised...lol.  when I viewed Sikh awareness the members were always swearing at each other.  Dalsingh, Chatanga, lucksingh99, even there admin would get involved to swear at members who presented a different view.  But when it came to tackling the nang and their views.  These internet warriors were hiding in the dirt. 

Swearing at each other? Calling each other names? Yeah bwoi, we moved on from that a long time ago. Kinda grew up. But look at who didn't.

The nangs were on their way down when I joined Sikh Awareness. But the Vaishnavs, HIndu nationalist/extremists and the anti-Dasam Granth brigade were there. Along with others I confronted their lies, and anyone who read that forum regularly would see that.

But where were you Akali Fauj? Tell us even one post you made where you rebutted the lies of the anti-Dasam Granth brigade who have been peddling their filth on that forum for the last three years.  What dirt were you hiding in?

What dirt were you hiding in when the Vaishnavs tried their hardest to convince everyone that Gurmat was an extension of Vaishnav mat?

What dirt were you hiding in when you had posters like "Amandeep HIndustani" and "Sher" peddling their hindutva propaganda?

12 hours ago, Singh123456777 said:

Also feminists. You forgot about them lol

I had feminisits under missionairies but yes they should be separate.

On 12/07/2016 at 7:41 PM, jassa said:

There is no sikh historic granth written in 18th century or before that praises banda bahadur. Suraj Parkash granth even compared banda bahadur to Abdali and claimed he wanted to be Guru. Same reference can be found in Prachin Panth Parkash of Rattan Singh Bhangu.

Lachman Das was a guru in his own right, before he met Guru Gobind Singh. He had his own disciples, thousands if I'm not mistaken. I would think myself that after he accepted pahul many, if not all of his followers would have as well. These followers could/would have been the same ones after Banda Bahadur's death to claim guruship for him.

On 02/01/2017 at 11:35 AM, Premi5 said:

Also, are some of the controversial things mentioned, like preventing Muslims having cremations, crushing skulls of muslims etc, true?

Banda Bahadur was accused of desecrating muslim graves but these were not the graves of muslims. they were the graves of sikhs and hindus who had died/been killed, but they were buried rather than cremation, as muslims abhor cremation. Cremations was banned wherever the moghals could enforce it. (similiar story in afghanistan in these few years concerning sikhs).

Asia samachar is a missnari front organisation. Read that article and you will see thier true colours.