Goli Da Vair Sada

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Anyone seen this film, its in 9 parts. Its a film about the khalistan movement. Check out the first link below and follow the links on youtube for the other parts. The main film starts after about 6 and a half mins.

If you can try downloading this film, burn it to dvd and hand them out at your local gurdwara etc.

Them panth time shows have been a waste of time, however thats just my opinion.

I still cant believe they havent put english translations up when playing recordings of kirtan. They should get that sorted if possible.

there are other reasons why sant moved his headquarters to the akal takht including the leaking of the plan to attack the complex to sant ji whicxh involved the govt making a replica of darbar sahib and planning an assault using it. i hope sum1 will make this info available because i dont have time right now. also sant ji enjoyed the support of the sikh masses, he was the main person leading the dharam yudh morcha, the akal takht is the centre of all sikh political affairs so his place was in darbar sahib in my opinion. if sant ji was doing anything wrong and didnt have the support of the masses at the time other sikh groups would have called for him to be removed and could have removed him themselves as there were other groups that had men and arms. fact is he was doing nothing wrong. he said many times that if he done anything wrong and the police was to put a warrant out for his arrest he would hand himself in. when the police arrested him they were forced to let him go because they had no evidence against him. that crap tully was sayin last night about the govt pulling strings to let him go is rubbish, it was the govt who put pressure on the state police in the first place to arrest sant as the police did not want to upset the masses by doing so. why would the govt need to pull strings if teh police didnt want to arrest him in the first place because they were afraid to upset the sikhs? thats why they sent the army in to attack darbar sahib and kill sant ji because the police were unwilling to go against sant ji, otherwise why not use the police and other states para military if they wernt affraid to arrest him initially.

even before the attack it was carried out in secret, they gave no chance to surrender, they didnt even tell the pilgrims inside an attack was comin, do u really think that thousands of unarmed people would be in darbar sahib complex if they knew a full scale assault was about to take place. brar said himself that they gave a chance to the people to get out after 2 days even though that has been flatly denied by all those who were inside at the time. if brar couldnt wait 1 day for the rememberance day of guru jis shaheedi to pass because he sed 1 million sikhs would have surrounded them which swords etc then its a bit obvious that he wouldnt give the sikhs inside fair warning to surrender or for pilgrims to get out because this would have given time to get the word out to the other sikh around punjab and would have given sikh inside a chance to prepare. fact is tho he didnt give them warning cus they wanted to kill every1 inside to send a msg and to destroy any chamces of sikhs gettin autonomy or independance.

i dont think ppl realise how much damage these poorly researched programs do. i would say 90% off sikhs in uk do not bother researching 84 so they take most of there info from progs like this. whats the point of encouraging her to research the facts now wen shes already shown the bs documentary? sum1 shud work on sewing tully for character assasination of sant. i bet he didnt sit in the same room as sant more then a handful of times let alone speak to sant.

The programme was good on the perspective of Sonia finding out about 1984 but dodgy on the issue of Sant Ji.She has been given the wrong facts and lies by the likes of Mark Tully and others.Sant Ji took weapons inside to defend the shrine as the plan for the attack had been hatched years before in a remote desert of Rajasthan I believe on a replica of Sri Darbar Sahib,not to mention the Dharam Yudh Morcha and Civil Rights Movement of the Sikhs.Sant Ji never tried to escape this new 'story' was told to the Indian media by a general last June that Sant Ji died under the rubble and so on. Sonia came across confused and at times acceptive of the fact that Sant Ji was in the right you could see it in her face ,General Brar got grilled I wonder how she felt when she encountered the devil himself - you could see in her eyes and her stare about how she felt about him - to be frank he even looks like something from hell. I did think at times when she said the wrong things about Sant Ji - that it was her saying it but we have to understand that she has just discovered the truth about 1984 and has info flowing to her from all sources pro and anti Sikh ,with her being a BBC presenter the Indian propaganda can affect her more,she should watch the Sikh Channel 12 part show on Youtube for a full true account on 1984

All in all a good effort from herself - but the anti Sikh elements had their say also to confuse her,there is no denial that she was moved by her journey and in due course I believe she will find out the truth about Sant Ji and why Sikhs armed themselves and about the Civil Rights Movement and Dharam Yudh Morcha. Her peice on the Delhi Genocide I believe was flawless, I believe we should encourage Sonia to examine the facts herself she knows the basics - now she just needs to be told the truth of the Sikh Side

i thought it was a load of bs. tully chattibn sumin about the police burning sants sermons so he turned against the govt? wats all that about? he even tried to prove his stupid theory by saying when sant talked about the govt burning our children he sed sant was refering to the sermons. wat a dumass. man is thick as anything if he got to that conclusion. a more plausable reason why he turned anti govt was after 78 wen the police helped teh nirankaris attack sikh peaceful protesters but that wasnt even mentioned. why didnt she refer to sikh accusations that the attack coincided with guru ji shaheedi to maximise deaths? even on the pogroms she didnt even mention the hand of indian govt officials in organising em, she just sed in sum cases police did nufin or sumin like that. u telling me ppl forgot to tell her these things? and her dum conclusion that there wer no more injustices on sikhs in punjab because she had a convo with a 18 yr kid.

This is Kuljit Singh. I reluctantly interviewed the two for Sikh channel...I had arrived with understanding that will be doing a q and a with a panel but found myself CONDUCTIng the interview with Sonia and Tommy nagra the exec prod for documentary.

Sonia completely and utterly lied on Sikh channel to sangat. She said the doc had nothing to do with Sant Jarnail Singh ji... but when u look at the factual information supplied in documentary and compare to real facts ... sant ji was shown as a congress puppet. Gursikhs carrying shashters were called militants when know that Sant Sipahi is the aim of a khalsa... there were so many incorrect references to numbers of victims and total disregard to human rights stats and the reports of other journalists. No mention of hindus who joined amritdhari ranks ...

Sonia shows her shallowness in two areas...its acknowledged she is walking on the path...but no mention of diwali reason of celebration for sikhs ; responds to an 18 yr old and questions him in a manner that prob just confused the lad rather than made him understand the question!

pathetic attempt to portray the 84 issue. Have to go work tomorow with prospect of making sant ji look in better light than what was portrayed.

Sant ji's speeches clear the congress puppet argument as well as akali supporter argument.

As for tully's feet touching sant ji's sri sahib. Says it all ...goray cant and prob wont ever get it. Bus incident totally confused and shown wrecklessly as the time when sant jis notes were burnt!

SONIA lied blatantly on sikh channel that the documentary wasnt about sant jarnail singh ji...id estimate nearly third of it was related to sant ji.

positive things was kes issue for bibia...but there are strong bibia who have got more guts than sonia...who was reluctant to even cover her own head in sikh channel studio [because in her own words...she felt uncomfortable.]

i asked if she could reappear on mon nites show but she quickly avoided the question.

when i told her about sant ji's jivan in the studio she looked shocked...she clearly has not done too much research herself.

anyways sikh sangat will prob put her right in the next couple of days.

there were so many facts i noted but i will prob reply to her .

we can complain to bbc through website...write valid reasons. and demand a docum that actually portrays sant ji in the right manner.

youve sed alot of points that i wanted to say, totally agree.

how did this panth become full of traitors and cowards like sonia deol

if u believe that sri dasam granth ji is the bani of guru gobind singh ji then why should any gurbani be treated different? gurbani is gurbani and we should respect and give our head to all gurbani just the same. its funny how now the india jatha etc have come out with statements in support of guru jis bani the uk branch members have changed their stance like they didnt have their own brains in the first place.

Please take a look at the following link, the blogger has blogged a few news cuttings regarding amitabh bachan and his crimes against the sikh community, some of you might find it interesting. scroll down about half way to view the clippings.

http://originalspuk.blogspot.com/2009/10/2nd-edition-25-years-after-genocide.html

hes got a point tho. its sumin ive also wondered. do those businesses pay? because they are shown quite regularly, every break infact. this should be generating alot of money for the channel to continue if they are being paid for as they should be. cus otherwise theyll be using all those direct debits of the sangats youve been asking for to advertise theyre own businesses for free.

I bow down to this earth the biggest rock of creation and evolution…….obviously it makes me an idolater and a hieratic. :cool:

WAH!!! That was too wicked!

you'l start bowing to the sun and moon next. what a foolish person. the funny thing is this guy actually thought he proved something,lol. might have sounded good to a few other idiots. but this guy would rather bow down to the biggest rock of creation then the creator himself who created it.

i dont see how u can tell someone to become sikh and to take amrit if ur not percieved to be amritdhari and a good sikh themselves.

im not one of these ppl that think sehejdharis etc arnt sikhs. everybody at different stages. but u should look and be percieved to be a true sikh of the guru if ur gna tell people to become it themselves.

but i guess we got no one to blame for this but ourselves tho if no amritdhari sikh is prepared to put themselves forward as potential candidates.

For all those people who like to ask where this person or that person was when something happend, where will u be this sunday? this time you can make a difference. so please all come.

Does any1 have the details of the protest. will it take place at the same location all day?

So no one knows whats gna be happening?

Can 1 of the organisers of the protest explain what will happen at the protest. Ive read it starts at 10am. will we be doing some kind of march? Or will the whole protest take place at bow? Ive heard that there will be a march. If this is so, what time will that start and what will be the route. where will be the final destination.

I ask because i may not be able to make it to bow by 10am, so might need to arrive a little later.

its always those who propose setting up jathas that are least likely to do anything. i'm not aiming this at you roop and i dont want to get into an argument, but if its that bad where you live, set up a jatha, and if its strong enough, it will spread to other places that have sikh communities.

as for sikhs being cowards, what do you expect? look at our history, how many brave men have been killed in all these wars we were in? its obviously had an effect on our gene pool.

ur right bruv. the brave sikhs have all given there heads and wats left is us the ones that are slowly becomin either goreh as in uk or hindus in punjab.

Im not tryin to offend by saying this but in my experience most sikhs are quite cowardly. alot of the sikhs that im talking about r good people but they typically lack courage when it comes to fighting etc. people talk about unity and want it for themselves so that they have something there to help themselves but when it comes to returning the favour they dont want nothing to do with it. I would say stick with ur close nit group that r down when it kicks off and forget the ones that r just hype and talk. in my experience most sikhs r just hype and talk. does anyone else have experiences that they wish to share?

Its sad we become so weak as a people that we cnt stop this from happening to our guru at harmandir sahib of all places.

Hope they throw the guy that done it in acid tho.

did he mention a dehdhari guru on TV?

Its the same as the Rababis of Guru Nanak's court, they all had their own ways to worship, yet they weren't banned from our Guru's court

or were they?

True as well. but they wer all worshipping one god in there own ways. this is fine. all should be able to worship in their own ways. guru tegh bahadur ji rightfully gave his head for this. but this channel is doing parchar of sikhi so should present sikhi lets remember this is a sikh channel for sikhi parchar.

VaheguruJiKaKhalsaVaheguruJiKiFateh!

Re: Saturday 19.45 9 May, a naamdhari is doing live katha on the Sikh Channel.

If Akal Takht Sahib have issued Hukumnamas forbidding followers of dehdhari gurus to sit on our Gurdwara stages, shouldn't the Sikh Channel be responsible enough to NOT put an obvious naamdhari on the prime time live tv slot allowing him to do katha???

No offence to the naamdhari, but the Sikh Channel must take responsiblity of who they allow on the TV channel or expect a reaction from the sangat!!

VaheguruJiKaKhalsaVaheguruJiKiFateh!

Very True. A channel claiming to be the worlds first and only sikh channel should make sure only gurmat views are expressed.

I can see it comin already. the comments about intolerance etc. But its not a matter of intolerance towards namdharis etc but of confusion. Alot of the sikh community is confused enough when it comes to Gurmat. Sikh Channel i hope will try there best to aviod adding to the confusion. hopefully they are more stricter on this in the future

look around at wats happenin today. sikhs gettin slaps all over the place. taliban terrorising sikhs in pakistan, gurdwaras gettin burnt down and no1 speaking up on behalf of the sikhs to catch those responsible, turban banned in france and clamp down happening in other countries regrading kirpan etc. fact is we dont gettin so much rubbish cus we dont have a voice in the world.

the will of the people was for khalistan as shown in 1989 elections in punjab when khalistani's won seats in a landslide victory and government was formed and headed by pro khalistan united akali dal party who themseles won 10 of the 13 seats. the leader of the party simaranjit singh mann was not allowed in indian parliament to press there claim for an independant state by democratic means. the will of the people was met with oppression so the sikhs had to fight for their right of self determination.

I still think veer that both sides were wrong.

As someone who was around in 84 and saw the massacre (not riots) I would say that Nehru's dynasty had done a biggest disservice to India. Such small people like Indira are not worthy of ruling a diverse nation.

As far as SAD Mann is concerned, creating independent Khalistan at that time will mean disintegeration of the Indian state. Because Khalistan will immidiately tie-up with Pakistan and both will be supported by US and UK. The only loser will be India. So any Indian would not be comfortable with that thought, because the very life and peace of the country is at stake. If at all SS Mann had to go about seeking Khalistan, it should have been done in a more discreet way and not challenging India outright.

OTH the Indian Govt was represent in Punjab by pusillanimous Hindus of the likes of Gobind Ram, who after centuries of living as 'dhimmis' first under Mughals and then under Sikh tried to humiliate Sikhs and remove his own inferiority complex in the guise of establishing peace and writ of the state. Bringing order in Punjab should have been completely restored to Sikhs themselves rather than bring in Hindus with an axe to grind in the picture.

It also seemed very petty, that the same Hindus for whom Sikhs had laid down their lives repaid their maganimity in the Gobind Ram'esque manner.

So there was ill-will and mistrust all around. The only mistake that can't be washed away is the killing of innocent lives by Govt of India agents like Gobind Ram, these lives can't ever come back. Those killed in 84, and those widowed can't get their lives back and just because those open wounds were created in the past, this issue will not resolve easily.

I would agree with alot of what you said.

But with reference to Mann Sahib he was democratically elected to speak for the people of punjab. If they wanted to an independant state then under international law it should have been given as people have the right to self determination. Killing a group of people to stop a country being spilt up is genocide. just to stop your country being split is not a good enough reason to kill a group of people. under international law people have the right to self determination.

I still cant see myself what is stopping the indian govt from doing all this again? Theyve proven they will do it time and time again. Whats changed to stop it happening again?

To others on this forum who so easily disrespect the memories of the Kharkoo's, atleast those singhs and singhnia showed the govt that commiting crimes against the sikhs will not be tolerated. Only because of them the GOI would think twice.

I cant believe the mentality of some people. the indian government has proved that it would be prepared to kill off a whole community for its own self interests and we make excuses for them.

the Indian govt's guilt is acknowledged.

But now what can I as an indian and also someone who belongs to a minority community do to pacify you.

I will write GoI on my chest and you can take off my head. Will that satisfy your vengeance ?

Listen i have no hatred for u. thats the first thing. You assume that because some one is khalistani we want vengeance and death.

What i want is for sikhs to never have to suffer this again. the only way for sikhs to be able to secure this is if they have control over there own affairs or raaj. Guru Gobind Singh Ji also taught this.

in the time of the kharkoos sikhs were being murdered and abused. it was sometimes nessecary to restort to violence in order to stop those commiting atrocities. the will of the people was for khalistan as shown in 1989 elections in punjab when khalistani's won seats in a landslide victory and government was formed and headed by pro khalistan united akali dal party who themseles won 10 of the 13 seats. the leader of the party simaranjit singh mann was not allowed in indian parliament to press there claim for an independant state by democratic means. the will of the people was met with oppression so the sikhs had to fight for their right of self determination.

I cant believe the mentality of some people. the indian government has proved that it would be prepared to kill off a whole community for its own self interests and we make excuses for them.