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harminder

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  1. sucha n jhutha

    in WHAT'S HAPPENING?

    Posted

    Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

    Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

    Its quite interesting topic .There has been a tendency by many people to compare some of the sikh practices to brahmical practices and here too one veer has said the same thing.I think we have to think more objectively before reaching such conclusions.

    About jooth:Dont we find it easy to accept jooth of a family member than someone out of family? so when I am having langar with amrithari I feel more close to him or her cos we are both Gurus son or daughter so I will have least resistance to accept jooth of that person.If I have to accept jooth of someone whos not amrithari its natural for me to show some resistance or refuse bcos I feel(note its just that "I feel") I am having jooth of someone whos out of family so I dont know about Him ,like whether he is drinker or not,whether he is of good character or not so these doubts will stop me from having his jooth.I think its just natural effect .Now if that person starts saying that amrithari person is discriminating then he is the one whos being a hypocrite. Its just that amritharis feel more at home and more like family with amritharis and theres nothing wrong in it. But now if an amrithari sees an inocence in the love of the person who is offering food or he thinks not accepting will hurt someone then not accepting just because he cant have jooth of non-amrithari would be ritualistic.Eating jooth in such cases should not be seen as something wrong.Or thinking that by not having jooth of anyone execpt amritharis (but without other things ikhi teaches,without naam and Bani) we are superior to others is again not correct.I think Gururnanak dev jis sakhis quoted her

    e is to prove this fact.

    About sarbloh and bibek: Yes using such bibek can be understood only at a particular stage of spirtuality.But dont we copy role models even though we are not there yet,in the hope that someday we will reach there?? I think its just the same think at even though being at lower spiritual levels its correct to think that eating in sarbloh and keeping bibek helps.I dont know scientific significance though.

    Now if its not possible to keep sarbloh bibek it doesnt mean we are doing something wrong or we cant raise our spiritual state.And also keeping sarbloh bibek and not doing naam bani abhyaas wont help at all.trying to over emphasize sarbloh bibek and not attuning ourselves to Naam and Bani can be called just a ritual.

    Having langar or food cooked by amritharis:Theres no doubt that if food is cooked while doing naam bani abhyaas,while keeping mind atuned to waheguru ,the people who eat the food will be benefitted.Its simple power of naam and bani.And if amritharis prepare langar or food the chances are more that the food has been preapred with a naam attuned mind.So thus its natural to feel that its better if langar be prepared by amritharis tyar bar tyar singhs or singhnees.But again if some pyara,some sehajdhari singh or singhnee wants to do seva ,just refusing to let him do seva bcos amritharis cant have food cooked by nonamrithari would be wrong in my opinion.In that case singhs should request such person to recite bani or naam.Now we cant judge anyone by just bana,we dont know how a person is inside but obviously when we have amrithari we think of him or her as family member and chances are more that his mind is more attuned to Guru.Non-amritharis can be better or worst we cant say.

    These are just my thoughts on this topic,thought of sharing it with sangat to learn from sangat.Please forgive anything said wrongly and correct me.

    Gurfateh

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  6. Shabad Guru CD

    in POLITICS | LIFESTYLE

    Posted

    Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

    Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

    Its great sewa.

    But I am concerned about distribution of CDs to all beacuse I wont be sure wether they will give it proper respect or not.

    What does sangat here think about it.

    Fateh

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  7. Dasam Granth Parkash?

    in WHAT'S HAPPENING?

    Posted

    Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

    Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

    Dear veer Niranjana,

    Thanks for your researchfull study on the issue of versions of SGGS.

    we can see that there are at least six versions of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib

    Well it will be no surprise to me if tommorow government of India or RSS comes out with few more versions of SGGS,or if some other group of people like the ones you have mentioned say that some other thing(like hymns of meera bai) is part of gurbani.

    The reasons of such a thing happening would be:

    1.propaganda by RSS like factions to malign the very base of sikhi.

    2.Someone wanting to be self styled guru(like nirankaris and likes) might actually add his own bani in SGGS.

    3.People with weak minds following such groups or gurus in the hope to get quicker materialistic results.

    4.Some intelligent people like us trying to do hair splitting over such things without even following mool mantar.

    5.some people following others and loosing faith and doubting guru on basis of historical references like the ones you have given.

    Well the list could be as long as one might want.

    Its well know fact that theres no question of six versions of SGGS ,anyone wanting to proove that or beleive that will only end up disrespecting such a great Guru.

    Yes unfortunately the panth is not one on raagmaala yet but its my beleief that some day some mahapursh will clear e

    ven this doubt. but lets ask ourselves one question.How much of SGGS do we read,understand and follow in life even upto before raagmala??Not doing that and starting to question and doubting about something like raagmala is foolish in my opinion. We dont wanna listen to what is being told so loudly and clearly in SGGS but we can spend endless time debating raag mala.Anyways let me not go more into that.

    But that said even with this ,all one can say with his wordly knowledge from any source is that SGGS is with Raagmala(which includes the other version in totality) and without it.If we go little deeper Guru is "SHABAD"(shabad guru surat dhun chela) and one can obtain this shabad from just mool mantar or one cant get it even by reading whole SGGS.Gurus nadar mehar is required most of all.We with our limited senses,limitation of time and space we live in, will only praise Him and expereince Him as much as he has given us the wisdom to do it.

    "Aaap aapni budh hai jeti barnat bhin bhin tohe teti"

    For someone with faith and reverence for the "SHABAD",for the GURU,for SGGS there is no doubt and for someone who doesnt have this its all question marks.

    "Ik bharam bhule fire deh dis ek naam laag sawareya"

    If we want answers ,if we want Guru to guide us then lets do Simran and other things a sikh should do.If our aim is only to find faults then we will miss so much and we will have to regret in the end.

    I dont find myself very confortable talking about my GURU like this so i might not participate more on this.My request to all sangat is that lets first see who we are talking about ,it our GURU,Lets not talk in anyway that might show disrespect for our Guru.

    someone wrote something very wise on sikhnet:

    "For a hungry person food does not have a meaning. Food has an impact, an effect and a result. This is experienced after one receives food. Those who seek a deeper meaning of the food names may remain hungry forever."

    I apologise if I have gone off topic or have s

    aid anything wrong.

    Gurfateh

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  8. BEFORE and AFTER Picture

    in POLITICS | LIFESTYLE

    Posted

    Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

    Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

    Great Rochak,what you have done is amazing .

    You look awesome in that bana

    "SABAT SOORAT DASTAAR SIRA"

    May waheguru bless you with amrit vela,Nitnem,Amrit and dana sir daan NAAM DAAN.

    Dhan sikhi,dhan khalsa,dhan dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

    tere kawan kawan gun keh keh gawan too sahib Guni nidhana

    tumri mehma varan naa sakon too thakur oonch bhagwana

    Gurfateh

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  12. Dasam Granth Parkash?

    in WHAT'S HAPPENING?

    Posted

    Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

    Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

    cosmictej Sahib(a), you indicate that one should not bow down to the Dasam Granth, in which case why have it in parkash next to the (Adi) Guru Granth Sahib in the first place? Why not keep it wrapped up in a respectful place (just as one would with say Bhai Gurdas Jee’s Varan) and bring it out for purposes of Vichaar only? Clearly if parkash is being done on par with Adi Guru Granth Sahib, then is the status not raised to equal, leading to the presently controversial issue of whether it should be regarded as such or not.

    The issue that arises here is that the very defining aspects of the Khalsa Panth rest on both Granths given the use of Bani from both during the preparation of Khanda-da-Paul and the daily nitnem liturgy. This has caused many arguments between the pro-and-anti camps, with the former viewing this as indicative of its status as Gurbani and hence as Guru and the latter expressing a view similar to that of JapNaam Singh in that it should be ‘respected’ but isn’t Gurbani in the same manner as the Adi Guru Granth Sahib.

    Deep Singh Jee raised the question of the authentic Birs, however this problem can also be applied (albeit to a lesser extent, but still evident) to the Adi Guru Granth Sahib –the ongoing position over the Raagmala is a clear example of this

    Veer ji,Yes Bani from Dasam Granth is there in nitnem and is recited du

    ting amrit ceremony and theres is no doubt that its Bani and there is no argument over these banis between any within sikhs.but this does not mean that whichever Granth these Banis come from be accorded status of Guru.Guru Gobind Singh ji had knowledge of "aad jugaad" and if he wanted to accord His writings in Dasam Granth status of guru then either he would have included the Bani in SGGS(like he did for Guru Teg Bahadur JI Bani) or he would have accorded Guruship to both the granths.Now there is no doubt that he did not do that and we also know that the only authority to accord Guruship on anyone was ONLY Him.And since he accorded Guruship to only SGGS we have to just follow that.We dont know why he didnt accord the same status to His writings of Dasam Granth,but whatever it is it is HIS wisdom and only he knows it.

    so even though Dasam Granth Bani is to be revered the gurus spirit which lies with SGGS does not lie with any other granth.ONLY SGGS is our "aad jugaad Guru".If we doubt this we are doubting wisdom of our Guru.The gurus spirit being in SGGS is eveident from th way great realized sikhs like Baba Nand Singh ji,Bhai Randhir Singh ji,Sant Jarnail Singh ji, treated SGGS.Baba Nand Singh ji had darshan of Guru Nanak Dev JI in flesh and blood from SGGS.Their respect and devotion to SGGS as only Guru even though including Dasam Garnth Banis in their daily Nitnem and in amrit ceremonies clears any doubts in this regard one might still have.

    This is interesting, I've heard of Guru Sahib (and even seen the associated writings) indicating not to worship him as Nirankar, however never anything concerning his writings. Veer, could you please verify this statement.

    It wasn't declared as Guru Granth at the time, but was certainly treated in the same manner. Amandeep Singh Munde and Dalip Singh, build upon a simila

    r view indicating that Guru Gobind Singh divested Gurgaddi to the Khalsa Panth (Guru Panth) and to the Guru Granth, hence the practice keeping both Granths together follows...any thoughts?

    About guru ji not indicating anywhere to not worship His Bani,well as I said he was not normal human with limitations like us,He was antarjami and well aware of past and future and if he thought it correct that His banis is to be worshipped as Guru he would have taken care of it right then.

    About gurgaddi to khalsa panth and Guru Granth,i tend to disagree on this statement.I think we are mixing two aspects.As far as Guru Gaddi and Guruship is concerned it solely lies with SGGS.Our Guru is only SGGS and very clearly Gurgaddi was accorded by Guruji on to Guru Garnth Sahib.

    Anyways, Guru Gobind Singh Sahib left no doubt as to the fact that the Guru Granth Sahib was to be the eternal Guru of the Sikhs. He,on his deathbed, summoned the Sikhs to bring the (at that time) the Adi Granth Sahib to him. He himself consecrated the Adi Granth Sahib in the EXACT manner as every Guru had passed on the Gurgaddi, namely by presenting the Adi Granth Sahib 5 paise, a coconut and finalized the act by bowing to the Adi Granth Sahib, which from then on, became the Guru Granth Sahib. It is even stated that the Dohira recited at the end of Ardaas are the words (or some variation) of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib which state to follow the Guru Granth Sahib as the Guru. This was NOT done to the Dasam Granth (as no such Granth was in existence at the time) or the Sarbloh Granth (whose very origin and status is still a mystery to many).
    Very correctly said.Guru Gobind Singh ji formally passed guruship and the

    spirit of guru which has been passing from Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Guru Gobind singh ji,to our eternal Guru SGGS.

    In NO way should the knowledge of the Dasam Granth be ignored. It is the work of the Dasmi Patshahi and should be treated with respect, but the designation of Guru belongs only to the Guru Granth Sahib and not any other Granth Sahib. So doing parkash of Guru Granth Sahib alongside of the Dasam Granth at the same level would be to ignore the very last commandment of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib.

    I tend to agree with this, how can we think we have more wisdom than Guru Gobind Singh ji and treat anything other than SGGS as our guru.It is not respecting His command for us.

    I also agree that dasam Granth Banis have should be respected as its Bani of Guru Gobind Singh ji and I also very firmly beleive that they have great powers.

    As far as certain Gurdvaras (Hazoor Saahib, Patna Saahib) doing prakash of Sri Dasm Granth, I personally don't think this has too much bearing. Sure, it indicates that this was a common practice at one point, but that doesn't mean that it was ever correct. A lot of things were prevalent at one point or another, especially prior to the Singh Sabhaa Movement, but it doesn't mean that these things were in accordance with Gurmat. Certain schools of thought now try to discredit the Singh Sabha Movement and all the reforms that took place. In my eyes, this movement saved Sikhism from being swallowed by hinduism.
    Very true just because its been ha

    ppening from a certain point in history doesnt mean its going correct.Damdami Taksaal has been carrying knowledge from time of Guru Gobind Singh ji and even they dont treat Dasam Granth as Guru.And again Many great sikhs who have been carrying knowledge from Sants of Guru Jis time have treated only SGGS as guru.And we are well aware of kamai of these Mahapurush.

    As far as prakash of dasam granth along with SGGS ,I am short of information about whether this is correct or not accoprding to maryada.But its my guess since these two places are strongly associated with Guru Gobind Singh ji,they have done prakash of Dasam Granth to show thei respect and association with Guruji and it has become a tradition ahrd to break at some point in history.But if they are treating dasam Granth as Guru ,its certainly not in line with what our Guruji asked us to do.When I go to Hazoor Sahib i bow there knowing both Granths are in prakash,but in my heart I am seeing only SGGS as my Guru and bowing only to SGGS as Guru,though still paying respects to Bani of Dasam Graanth.and yes Hukamnama is always from SGGS first.

    Okey for a seconde if we continue on the thought that was presented by Niranjana jee about Guru Granth Sahib been given Gurgaddi in 1604 at Guru Arjan Dev Sahib's time. Well then the Guru would be Sri Guru Granth Sahib and not Guru Hargobind jee after Guru Arjan Dev jee. therefore there is a need of some explaination. this makes me think that Gurmat has always contained the twin-Guruship model; Guru as the 'teacher', 'helper', 'prophet' or 'enlightener' and Guru Panth as 'collective responibility', sangat, brotherhood and the 'political/worldly power' etc. So the first five Guru Sahiban were both our teacher and our leaders in worldly matters, as both Miri-Piri in one. However after t

    he Gurgaddi to Guru Granth the spiritual power has been with Sri Guru Granth Sahib and Sehvi to Dasvi Patshahi have had power over Panthic matters/or been our sole leaders as in worldly matters. And when Khalsa was created the 'Guru Panth' authority was given to the Khalsa Panth...and today we still have this twin-Guruship; as Guru Granth and Guru Panth.

    Veerji,please do more reserach on this to convince yourself,but there is no twin guruship model in Sikhi.There has been always one Guru at a time.Guru Granth Sahib JI was compiled by Arjun Dev ji but it was not accorded guruship it was just a granth and Guru Hargobind JI(or other gurus till Guru gobind Singh ji) were the only Gurus at their time,NOT SGGS.ONce again why this is upto wisdom of our Gurus and as a sikh i dont wanna have any questions on that.SGGS was revered and respected and our Gurus might have used Bani from it to enlighten people but it was NOT GURU before Guru Gobind Singh JI Gave Guruship to SGGS,and the moment he did that from that point on our ONLY GURU IS SGGS.

    well i dont know if ur analogy is correct or not.. but my instincts tell me that none of the bhagats were "wrong" that Guru jis needed to clarify their views..

    and i believe when Kabir ji said the blood line.. its metaphoric.. and each shabads have different meanings but obviously the same theme

    Well its not right to say bhagats were wrong,otherwiose their bani wouldnt be in SGGS.SGGS hols bani for people of all spritual stages.It directs a beginner as well as an enlightened soul.Bhagats were obviously of very high spiritual stage and their Bani would have perfectly guided someone who is at that stage or near to it.And

    obviously what they said was truth and truth is only one. But Guruji also added their bani along(which is again pure truth)so that someone whos at beginning stages doesnt get that wrong and doesnt start some ritualostic things.

    So we just have to get guidance from SGGS according to what stage we are in.Certain concepts we will really understand if we have been able to raise our spiritual stage by Gurus grace.

    I hope this helps in explaining your doubt.

    These are just my views with from my very very limited knowledge of Bani,Guru and Sikhi.Please forgive me for any mistakes.

    Gurfateh

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  13. Sikh Girls < Sikh Guys

    in WHAT'S HAPPENING?

    Posted

    Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

    Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

    Could this be one of the reasons why some girls don't like Sikhi or don't want to be Sikhs cuz Sikh guys dont' pay attention to them?

    Well some people also say some guys cut hair and show their back to Guru because they think girls dont pay attention to them.But Does that mean all guys are like that?? NO.

    Same way there might be few girls who give up sikhi for this silly reason but obviously there are stronger girls our there with sikhi ingrained in them.

    I think one of the reasons of not having enough sikh girls around is that in many families they stressed more to make sure the boy child kept His sikhi than they stressed for same thing for the girl child.The result: Even though we have lot of girls around with a sikh heart,and many of them are amrithari also,they are not as visible as guys because they dont wear dastaar.Now reason why less girls even in some sikh families wear dastaar is more of a cultural thing.And if girls really wanna have their identity and come on levels with sikh guys they should show courage to wear a dastaar.And obviously their decisions should not depend upon guys liking it or not as a sikh guys decisions about sikh identity should not be based on such a thing.

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  14. 3HO

    in WHAT'S HAPPENING?

    Posted

    Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

    Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

    Dear Balwinder Singh ji,

    Once again many thanks for taking time to write on this.

    Well I think I have no problem with the name of the Gurdwara anymore .It should be OK as far as all Gurdwara Maryada is folowed and SGGS is treated with utmost respect.

    I didnt have info about that gurdwara in chadigarh,for now i think its wrong to have Gurdwara associated with such a thing there.Anyways gurdwara once established is only source of Sikhi .I will try to find out more about that one before making any opinion.

    About Sri Chands Moorti,I hope they are not follwing His teachings or paying any kind of obeyance to Him.But Gurdwara shouldnt be a place where any art is allowed .If we go by their explanations of the art thing then there are many other forms of art also,even moorti of a hindu God is art .But will we place it outside gurdwara and say its just piece of art?.Whatever we see in near vicinity to gurdwara seem to be something which Gurdwara follows and preaches so such a moorti only sends wrong signals.BUt again may be I am thinking in my own limited vision.And ofcourse if it is treated as just an article and nothing more than that then its fine.

    About you giving examples of gurdwaras on castes,well very clearly its wrong but i think its not appropriate to cite that here bcos when we are looking into one wrong we should not try to counter it by another wrong.It doesnt server much purpose.

    The thing which still sounds away from sikhi is the mantar thing.Why did Yogi JI has to choose mantras outside Gurbani.Or had to make his own mantras when we know the most powerfull mantras(even for y

    oga and whatever cause) could be found well within SGGS or other sikh scriptures.

    Its very true that we should neglect small wrongs for a bigger cause but I looked at 3HO sikhs with more respect than other sikhs sometimes and just want to make sure whether I am doing right.Ofcourse they are great sikhs and YB has done great thing.And for a greater cause of spreading sikhi all the negative things look too small to even consider.But we have to be carefull that we do not pick anything which is away from sikhi that they are doing and inculcate in other sikh places also.

    Thanks

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  15. 3HO

    in WHAT'S HAPPENING?

    Posted

    Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

    Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

    Well as I said my purpose of questions on 3HO are only to learn about them.I need to know what all things they do differenntly then other sikhs and why.

    PLease dont take any offense in that.

    I asked sikhnet some questions regarding 3HO and I am posting their answers here just for anyone else who might want to know more about them.I would request anyone else who has asked sikhnet questions on 3HO to please put your questions and their answers here for others like me to learn.

    GUrfateh

    ************************

    wahguru ji ka khalsa

    waheguru ji ki fateh

    is there "Moorti of Baba Sri Chand outside outside the Gurdwara in New Mexico, the Sri Maha Akaal Mandir"

    If its there then why? Also why name of the Gurdwara doesnt look SIKH?

    Fateh

    REPLY

    Thank you for writing to Sikhnet. There is a strong tradition of creating beautiful art in New Mexico, and throughout the history of Sikhs in India and every country to which Sikhs have migrated, art is very prevalent. Art includes music, painting, sculpture, drama, poetry, dance, and many other forms of expression. There are paintings in New Mexico that tell stories, there are photographic stories, and musical stories that remind us of the lives and teachings of the Gurus, and there is a sculpture of Baba Siri Chand. I am aware that some people believe certain forms of art should not be allowed. This is also a practice in some other religions, to ban or disallow certain forms of art such as music and dance. The teachings of the Gurus encouraged Sikhs to pursue education and art. The entire Siri Guru Granth Sahib was com

    posed in classical Indian Rag. I hope you will come and visit Espanola to see for yourself the Gurdwara, the Gurbani Kirtan, the art, and the Sikhs who live and worship here and the thousands who visit. The name inscribed on the front entrance of the Gurdwara where the Siri Nishan is flying in the breeze, just beneath its shinning golden dome is Siri Singasan E Khalsa, the Great Lions of the Khalsa. It is very Sikh, is it not? The entire community of Sikhs living here near Espanola, New Mexico, which is really like a small village, is referred to as Hacienda de Guru Ram Das. The name 3HO simply means healthy, happy, holy organization, and it is the name of the nonsecular arm of Sikhs who teach a technology for living healthy, happy, and holy that is not associated with any one religion and is open to people of all religions. It inlcudes the teachings of yoga and meditation and healthy, vegegarian diet. I hope this answers your concerns. Sat Nam. God bless you. -GMK

    ****************************

    3HO QUESTION (2ND QUESTION)

    Thanks for taking time to answer my questions.I know nothing about 3HO (except the fact that they look great in sikhi bana) so all I am asking is just for sake of understanding. The things which they do as other sikhs are understandable bcos I am used more to them, the things they do different are things new to me and i want to learn about it. Thats the exact reason why I am asking only about things which they do diffrenty.

    OK so moorti is there as a piece of art. But why only Sri Chand?? There is no tradition of putting pics in gurdwaras except those of Gurus or Great Singhs, so why choose Sri Chand over others. If the moorti was that of one of the Gurus or well known sikhs its understandable but why only Sri Chand. Photos in Gurudwara are to depict our association with them. What does this moorti depict?? Is there any special consideration for Baba Sri Chand by 3HO??

    Well right harimandir is there but why we never hear of any gurdwara by name MANDIR in end? Wh

    at was the reason of choice of this name of gurdwara (Maha Akal Mandir)as compared to other common names which would have also prevented them from any confusion.

    Is it true "They do jaap of Adi Shakti Mantr “Adi Shakti Adi Shakti, Adi Shakti Namo Namo, Kundalini Mati Shakti Mati Shakti Namo Namoâ.

    Do they do this which is not Bani?""

    Another small question. I am coming to beleive Sikhnet is run by 3HO sikhs bcos I discovered Sri Yogi Bhajans lectures here and I beleive Sikhnet office is in Espanola. Is it true? I am just curious.I know you people are doing great job and I have myself benfitted from this. But As I said I am just out to learn about 3HO so please dont take any offense. If I am convinced I can clear doubts of many who think critical of 3HO so please enpower me to do that.

    Gurfateh

    Harminder Singh

    REPLY

    Understand that 3HO is not a religion. 3HO is nonsecular, meaning it is not part of any one religion and the technology of living healthy, happy, and holy is taught openly to people of all religions. People of different religions teach the 3HO technology. There are Sikhs and there are people of just about every other religion in existence who teach and practice the 3HO healthy, happy, holy lifestyle. The 3HO mission is simply that it is everyone's birthright to live healthy, happy, and holy.

    Espanola, New Mexico is the home of hundreds of Sikhs living in Northern New Mexico and the beautiful Siri Singhasan E Khalsa Gurdwara. I believe that people who create art are inspired by the lives, messages, stories, and experiences they have learned in their lives, and they wish to share their understanding with others through the art they create. Each artist picks the subject and the medium for his or her art. I once learned a beautiful story about a meeting of Guru Ram Das and Baba Siri Chand in a forest, during which time Guru Ram Das washed the feet of Baba Siri Chand with his hair. Then Baba Siri Chand said to the Guru, "Now I understand purity and humi

    lity. I did not have humility and that is why my father, Guru Nanak, did not pick me as the Guru". Baba Siri Chand promised to help protect the Sikhs of the Guru from that day forth. It is a beautiful story, so perhaps the artist of the sculpture of Baba Siri Chand was remembering this story. I hope you will visit Espanola one day so that you will see the Gurdwara and the many beautiful artistic creations people have offered in love and devotion to make the Gurdwara and grounds beautiful and peaceful, and all creations in glory of Akal Purkh.

    There is also a 3HO teaching center in Espanola. People of many different religions visit the 3HO teaching center. Sometimes 3HO people wish to learn more about the Sikhs when they see all of the Sikhs living in Espanola, and sometimes they later become Sikhs. Other 3HO people visiting the teaching center do not relate to the Sikh faith, and practice their own religion. It is of course each individual's choice to practice the faith of their choosing. There are some Sikhs who participate in the 3HO teaching center and there are some Sikhs who do not. They are separate organizations.

    Sat Nam. God bless you, Hariminder Singh. -GMK

    ****************************************

    waheguru ji ka khalsa

    waheguru ji ki fateh

    I think you have missed answering following part of my question:

    Is it true "They do jaap of Adi Shakti Mantr: Adi Shakti Adi Shakti, Adi Shakti Namo Namo, Kundalini Mati Shakti Mati Shakti Namo Namo.

    Do they do this which is not Bani?""

    Another small question. I am coming to beleive Sikhnet is run by 3HO sikhs bcos I discovered Sri Yogi Bhajans lectures here and I believe Sikhnet office is in Espanola. Is it true? I am just curious.I know you people are doing great job and I have myself benfitted from this. But As I said I am just out to learn about 3HO so please dont take any offense. If I am convinced I can clear doubts of many who think critical of 3HO so please enpower me to do that.

    Please take ti

    me to answer this one and then I will see If i need anything else.

    Fateh

    *********

    reply

    *********

    Sat nam. Yes, sometimes as a meditation, students of Yogi Bhajan chant the Adi Shakti mantra. Notice I said students. Not all of YB's students are Sikhs, and not all Sikhs are his students. It is for attuning to the divine feminine energy that indeed MANIFESTS this universe. Women find it particularl helpful. The full mantra is:

    Adi Shakti, Adi Shakti Adi Shakti Namo Namo

    Sarb Shakti, Sarb Shakti, Sarb Shakti Namo Namo

    Pritham Bhagvatee, Pritham Bhagvatee, Pritham Bhagvatee Namo Namo

    Kundaleenee, Mata Shakti Mata Shakti Namo Namo.

    I do not see what the problem is. There are SO many mantras. Some are from Gurbani. Some are not. All are a technology used to support spiritual development. Many mantras given by Yogiji are given not as Sikh mantras, but as yogic mantras. However, some of them are indeed from Gurbani. Do you see the distinction?

    Yes, Sikhnet is run by "3HO Sikhs" and is based in Espanola. www.3ho.org for more information. Guru ang sang,

    -DKK

    ***********************************

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  16. 3HO

    in WHAT'S HAPPENING?

    Posted

    Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

    Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

    Dear Balwinder Singh ji,

    Thanks for taking time to answer my questions.As i said I know nothing about 3HO so all I am asking is just for sake of understanding.The things which they do as other sikhs are understandable bcos I am used more to them,the things they do different are things new to me and i want to learn about it.Thats the exact reason why I am asking only about things which they do diffrenty.

    I have also seen the moorti of baba sri chand outside the gurudwara.But nobdy pay obeisance to that moorti.I personally dont care abt moorties and always pay obeisance to SGGS.So i took it as like other pictures or moorties of Gurus or other saints.They dont teach them to follow sri chand or anything.

    I am frm chandigarh.And if u know abt sector-39 gurudwara at chandigarh then u must be knowing that the sector 39 gurudwara has a history.The history is abt the tapasya of baba sri chand. The gurudwara is built on that very location with SGGS directly above that stone where sri chanda did the tapasya.I think that should be more questionable than the Espanola gurudwara. I cited this example just to show that how we pin point all these things in 3HO sikhs and forget all the things abt ourselves.

    Well alright the moorti is just like that of photos of Gurus in Gurdwara but I have never seen Sri Chands foto also in Gurdwaras.If the moorti was that o

    f one of the Gurus or well known sikhs its understandable but why only Sri Chand.Photos in Gurudwara are to depict our association with them.What does this moorti depict??

    I dont know about this gurdwara in chandigarh.Does that gurdwara also has moorti or fotos or anything related to Sri Chand??

    Why there is this special treatment for Sri Chand??

    There is nuthin wrong in the name "MAHA AKAL MANDIR". There are 2 parts :

    1. "MAHA AKAL" which means AKAL purakh and all our gurus prayed akal purakh....I dont see anything wrong in that.Please explain me whats wrong in that.

    2. "Mandir": We have "hari-mandir" also at amritsar .Whats wrong in that?

    Well right harimandir is there but why we never hear of any gurdwara by name MANDIR in end what was the reason od choice of this name as compared to other common names which would have also prevented them from any confusion.

    Your second question:

    """2."They do jaap of Adi Shakti Mantr “Adi Shakti Adi Shakti, Adi Shakti Namo Namo, Kundalini Mati Shakti Mati Shakti Namo Namoâ€"

    Do they do this which is not Bani??""""

    The meaning of adi shakti is durga.And guru ji also equated sword with durga.So there is nuthin wrong in that.

    Well veerji here you are wrong I think.Guru ji equated sword with Durga but we need to understand in depth meaning of it.Guru ji was not a worshipper of Durga.And even if they wanted to do this to worship sword they could have taken any verse from Dasan Granth Bani or other Banis by Sri G

    uru Gobind Singh Ji..why make their own Bani,which is kachi what was the need and motive for that??

    I dont know abt the "kundlini mati shakti" tuk and whats the source.I think this is related to their yoga thing.I honestly dont know abt this thing.

    ONce again its not necessary to use that line or do meditation or Yoga using that line as there is plenty of Bani for the same.Yoga thing is fine but why do they have to utter again something which is not Bani??

    Please see if you can get this info from your frienmds in 3HO .It will be of good help for everyone like me who doesnt know much about 3HO.

    Thanks a lot once again

    Gurfateh

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  17. 3HO

    in WHAT'S HAPPENING?

    Posted

    Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

    Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

    Dear Balwinder Singh ji,

    I dont know much about 3HO besids the fact that they look great in sikhi bana.

    Can you say for sure whther following is correct regarding them as you seem to hav good knowledge abou them.

    1."There is Moorti of Baba Sri Chand outside the Gurdwara in New Mexico, the Sri Maha Akaal Mandir"

    Why thre is this moorti and why the name of gurdwara is like this??

    2."They do jaap of Adi Shakti Mantr “Adi Shakti Adi Shakti, Adi Shakti Namo Namo, Kundalini Mati Shakti Mati Shakti Namo Namoâ€"

    Do they do this which is not Bani??

    Thanks

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  19. anti-panthic things

    in WHAT'S HAPPENING?

    Posted

    Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

    Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

    What is it 25 paaths, 125, 115 + sukhmani sahib asa divar, i mean pick something already. I have personally heard some really radiculous stories but i won't post them here.

    This sounds really funny.Veer ji whatever it is out of these options,should we doubt about any Sants capability of doing path.And about numbers i think when someone says 125 or 115 all he is indicating is that he did lot of path which no one can doubt.Now may be someone tells me 125 and then when i tell someone i forget what the number was and i say 115.Is it really something we should be breaking our head on,when we know we dont eeven do one Japji Sahib path ourselves??
    So anyways that's just a small example. Here is a bigger one. "BABA JARNAIL SINGH JI IS COMING BACK".

    People seriously need to see what they are doing by spreading such information. And this is my favourite, "BABA THAKUR SINGH JI TOLD ME PERSONALLY THAT BABA JARNAIL SINGH JI IS COMING BACK"

    ONce again auseless discussion and no reason to break our heads.Our true respect for Sant ji would be to follow his soprit of saint soldier.Whether

    he is alive or not we dont know.If Baba Thakur Singh ji says hes not shaheed then we have all the reason to beleive him.We should not start making opinions about such great sikhs with our so limited mind that too devoid of any gurmat.If you really have the thirst to know the truth first hand then the nest thing would be to go to Baba Thakur Singh ji and ask ourselves rather than beleiving someone who says he has talked to Baba ji.

    The only allegiance i've is to Guru Granth SAhib jee Maharaj. I have no allegiance to today's santdom or deras only to Guru and his rehit.

    We should read sukhmani sahibs ashtpadis regarding mahima and need of sant and sadh sangat.All true sants only helped sikhs learn sikhi better and associated sikhs with Guru and not with themselves.That way i will consider myself lucky to listen to bachans of any true Sant.BUt yes we need to be carefull about many pakhandi dehdharis and i think its not hard to ditinguish such pakhandis from Sants like Baba Jarnail Singh ji or Randhir Singh ji.
    oh brother. here we go again.. 

    Canadians SERIOUSLY need to LEARN UNITY ! You guys are fighting for jathas and would never stop it.. SO GO AND FIGHT.. but don't come up on MESSAGE BOARDS filled with NORMAL SIKH YOUTH like ME who are TRYING TO LEARN PLAIN SIKHI, not BASHING other groups.. This is tooo much singhoo.. I don't know what one is trying to do or want to prove by putting these type of messages on public forums.. If one has some serious issues then try to work it out in a NON-VIRTUAL/CYBER WAY !

    Bhul chak

    kaay maaf.. Im sick of reading these type of topics.. again and again and again ! Time to move on.. sorry for bursting my mind out.. 

    We dont know whos what on internet ,so we need not be frustrated over such issues on internet at least.

    The typical answer "giani thakur singh ji is a brahmgiani and he said baba jarnail singh is a brahmgiani".

    Then i ask "how do u know baba thakur singh ji is a brahmgiani"

    the typical answer "baba jarnail singh said he is one"

    Veerji please be carefull always while using Such great peoples names like this.Again Bani tells us what Ninda of a true Sant brings?
    doesn't anyone else see the convenience of this argument. Get real people and learn to think for yourselves. Guru granth sahib ji is the only sant we need to turn to for guidance.

    and sangat ofcourse.

    Having sangat of Sant is nothing wrong according to gurmat provided the sant is true.If our thirst is real we will find ways to find real Sant.Otherwise why we have so much in Sukhmani Sahib on Sant Di Mahima.Think over it.

    Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our Guru no doubt ,nothing and noone can replace or question this.Sant themselves consider SGGS as ultimate Guru but still importance of Sant and Sadh Sangat can not be undermined.

    The reason i used i used taksal was because in my understanding they seem to have the most made up stories and their answer to everything is a rather convenient cycle

    Well veerji i listened to Sant Kartar Singh ji Khalsa cassettes and after hearing him its almost impossible for me to beleive that whatever he is saying is not correct.And he described lineage of Taksaal also.I dont have the strength and Courage to doubt Some one like him. Nor do i need any proof to beleive what he says.

    I have nothing against Taksal per se just against propaganda and in my understanding Taksal has been spreading propaganda. If you think otherwise prove me wrong by use of facts and documentation.

    ONce again veerji are we even .000001% of those Sants we are discussing here.Lets first try to do some kamai of Gurmat ourselves,lets first listen and understand what these Sants are telling us.You need proof and documentation?? Once again i say listen to Sant Kartar Singh jees or Sant Jarnail Singh jees katha or veechar and then see if you still need it.If you do then its really unfortunate.
    We don't need deras and we dont' need to go to sants for bachans all we need we can get from guru granth sahib ji.

    Yes ofcourse but we do need schools for gurmat studies.taksaal had been founded just by that motive.As far as needing sants bachans once again go through Sukhmani Sahib on need o

    f Sant.Sants only teach us like a teacher .the ultimate is only subject which is Aaal Purakh.

    The only problem I have is people putting someone's name inside a gutka sahib and asking the masses to do paath for that one person. Only bani should be within a gutka sahib.

    I have seen Taksaali Gutka and have not seen such a thing.

    I request AK-47 and Khalistanu veer to get emotional on this issue.We should try and ponder on things CFD has raised.It will only help clear doubts of sangat here and our own doubts.

    Lets behave like sikhs.

    IN the end i will request everyone to remember results of "Sant ki Ninda" as told in Gurbani before pulling names of such great souls into such discussions.

    Apologies for anything said wrongly.

    Gurfateh

    Harminder Singh

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  20. Faith

    in WHAT'S HAPPENING?

    Posted

    Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

    Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

    WAHEGURU JI !

    OMG i would recommend anyone going to india or is there... if havnt bin there to go there ... FOR SURE! I just went during AUGUST! SUch a beautiful place of where guru ji came .... SWEET WATER ... reli its reli sweet!

    One cab driver there is like i ONLY drink water from there... (since he drives sangat EVERY WEEK almost to get darshan for sangat at nanak chira from sri hazoor sahib)... he doesnt drink any other water 

    Also paaji to add to ur list... how about sri panja sahib in pakistan 

    bul chuk maph!!

    well sweet means its normal clean,drinking water not one with sugar.That area had no drinking water .

    gurfateh

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  21. Faith

    in WHAT'S HAPPENING?

    Posted

    Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

    Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

    Since dear veer khalistani was mentioning miracles which work till day,i wanted to add one more to the list.

    When Gurunanak dev ji went to bidar (gurudwara nanakjhira near Hazoor Sahib),people there begged from guruji to provide them with water and Guruji touched a part of soil with his toe and sweet water started coming out of the place.This source of water runs endlessly till date.

    Many scientists tried to know the source of water but failed.

    Gurfateh

    0

  22. Faith

    in WHAT'S HAPPENING?

    Posted

    Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

    Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

    Fist of all many thanks Jsinghji for sharing your expereinces here.

    someone who hasnt tasted sweetness can never tell how good it feels,when he is not able to do it himself he makes fun of others who do feel it,and he becomes sarcastic of others being able to enjoy the sweetness.This is my analogy of your situation.(not too bad..right :) )

    I dont blame that person entirely who condemned the sakhi,he might be ignorant of it,ignorant of sikhi and its sweetness so was just being sarcastic.

    But veerji we should not survive only to please other people,at a deeper level we know that its all maya here.So in such maya if we just waste away our time caring how to fit in?..how to please others? how to get other peoples attention? then we are wasting our "manukha janam". So it doesnt matter whether my long beard or Dastaar is not something that everyone around me is wearing.It doesnt matter if i look different or if some people dont like it on me.It doesnt matter if some ignorant person has condemned a sakkhi which we know is true.Sometimes it tests our faith in Guru.

    I will suggest that we dont make acceptance of sakhis or sikhi philosophy by people around us,a base for our faith in Guru.Our base has to be more firm,more strong,more un shakeable than that.Our base has to be love and faith for Guru.Our base has to be kirat karo,wand chako,naam japo.Our base has to be gurbani.Our base has to be rahat.Our base has to be in living in Gurus bhana.If we have

    such base then its really unshakeable.So we should contantly strive to have such base and do ardaas to Guru with all our hearrt for His Nadar.

    bhul chul maaf.

    Gurfateh

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  24. Amritvela

    in GURBANI | SAKHIAN | HISTORY

    Posted

    Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

    Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

    7. One day of nitnem at amritvela will keep you in chardi kala for the rest of the week.

    Does this mean to say that we should do amritvela for only one day in week?

    Amritvela has to become our daily routine by His kirpa.

    Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

    Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

    0

  25. Zindaginama

    in GURBANI | SAKHIAN | HISTORY

    Posted

    Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

    Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

    I got this from a mail group.Havn yet read full myself but thought of sharing it here:

    Ik Oankar Satgurprasad ||

    The Company Of Saints by Bhai Nand Lal Ji

    =========================================

    Pyari Sadh-Sangat Ji,

    This article was inspired by the Pothi Amrit-Kirtan. I noticed the

    fantastic writings of Bhai Nand Lal Ji on pages 311-314, sometime

    ago. This effort is being made to share the wisdom nicely portrayed

    by the famous Bhai Nand Lal Ji Goya. The Panjabi translation of this

    poetry of Bhai Sahib Ji, is there in the Amrit Kirtan Pothi, and can

    be easily read. However attempt is made here to bring forward the

    wisdom in English translation.

    About Bhai Nand Lal Ji Goya:

    Bhai Nand Lal ji Goya was the most respected and the primal poet in

    tenth Guru's darbar. He lived through the lifetime of the Tenth Guru

    Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj. He was very dear to the Guru himself. Bhai

    Sahib ii had the utmost respect for Guru ji. It implies from his

    writings that he lived like a part of the Guru himself, and could

    never imagine living without the company of the Guru. He perhaps had

    noticed sikhs occasionally doubting the powers of the Guru. His

    poetry sheds a great deal of wisdom on the state of a brahmgyani

    saint. It also clarifies some of the typical misconceptions one may

    come across about the appearance and life-style of the saints. Bhai

    Nand Lal Ji's poetry can be of great value for the spiritual

    seekers.

    Bhai Nand Lal ji went to Anandpur sahib with his wife and presented a

    book c

    alled Bandginama to Guru ji, Guru Gobind singh ji liked that

    book so much that he gave it a new name called 'Zindagi nama. Thus

    Bhai Sahab Bhai Nand lal ji became one of the 52 poets of Guru Gobind

    singh, and got himself converted to Khalsa.

    (See a picture of Bhai Nand Lal Ji at

    http://www.sikh-history.com/literature/ess...ssays/nand.html )

    Here are a few extracts from Bhai Nand Lal Ji's compilation "ZINDGI-

    NAAMA".

    Translation: (original is located at the end **)

    The biggest gain in the life comes from the company of the Saints,

    and the basic purpose of the human birth is to worship the Lord. (157)

    You want to be the devotee of the Lord,

    and eventually be the one to know the Lord in depth. (158)

    Every human on this earth is sent to be

    in the company of His saints. (159)

    The best part of the life is spent in the company of the saints.

    The blessings of the Lord in the human life

    come from the company of the saints. (160)

    Anyone who comes to the company of the saints,

    gets blessed with the precious maala of jewels (naam-maala) in his

    heart.

    Or the most precious jewel of all:

    naam-amrit is attained through the company of saints. (161)

    The very nature of saints is to keep happiness around them,

    and by all means maintain the true relationship with the Lord. (190)

    How can an individual acquire this precious wealth of ultimate bliss.

    One gets intimate to this unlimited wealth of his glory through the

    company of His saints. (191)

    All this is accomplished through the company of the saints.

    They have complete access to the wealth of both ends - Maya serves

    them

    on this earth, and they are the custodians of the most precious

    jewel of all - `Naam'. (192)

    One gets the most benefits from the company of the saints. Their

    company showers the worthless hu

    man (part of the soil) with the

    precious fruit of His `Naam'. (193)

    The saints appear as the living Lord on the earth.

    Truly they are the ones to run the both worlds - on the earth, and in

    the Dragah (God's Court). (230)

    The saints come across as extremely humble analogous to a minute

    particle of dust (lowest of the lowest).

    Truly, they are the most competent warriors of the Lord. (231)

    They live through the worldly deeds of life,

    but they are completely aloof of the effect of materialism.

    They spend every breath of their life in the remembrance of the Lord.

    (232)

    The saints consider themselves as small as an ant,

    yet they are brave and powerful than the most powerful elephant. (233)

    Anyone who comes across them, gets surprised with the taste of the

    ambrosial nectar.

    Their glory flourishes at the times when someone doubts them. (234)

    The company of saints is acquired only with the blessings of the

    Lord.

    And then one does not worry about materials anymore. (235)

    The saints appear to be materialistic,

    but in reality, they are aloof of the worldly attachments.

    They are envisioning the purest divine light of the Lord

    for each and every moment. (333)

    In the eyes of common people, they appear absorbed in the worldly

    deeds.

    In reality, they are absorbed in the Lord all the time. (334)

    A common person views them as very involved in the family (sons-

    daughters),

    but in fact their true relationship is with the Almighty Himself.

    (335)

    They appear to be lost in the greed, but truly,

    they have become pure by remembering Him (or reciting his `Naam') all

    the time. (336)

    In the eyes of common folks, they appear as trapped in the

    materialistic dealings,

    Yet, in reality, they are far above the materialistic attachments.

    (337)

    They appear to be busy in accumulating the wealth (gold-silver),

    but truly they are intensly absorbed with

    the Creator of water-earth-

    wealth. (338)

    With the time, their real life becomes apparent,

    and they bless the environment with the aroma of their holy presence.

    (339)

    Their spiritual state goes totally transparent with the Almighty,

    and one can envision the total truth in the saints.

    The both worlds (Lok-Parlok) work under the total will of the saints.

    (340)

    They remember the Lord with their tongue, and mind all the time. In

    remembering the Lord, their tongue emerges as the mind, and the mind

    becomes the tongue. The devotees absorbed in the Lord quote that the

    saints find the total happiness and enjoyment only through the

    company of the Lord.

    The saint, whose mind is embedded in nothing but Lord,

    accomplishes the highest status of all. (370)

    This secret is realized only by the saints who are totally immersed

    in the truth themselves.

    They do not like to get trapped in any wasteful conversations. (371)

    If you are seeking for the company of the Lord,

    fall flat to the feet of true saints (puran sant), and follow their

    wisdom of Truth. (372)

    A true saint will make you truthful, and complete (puran) just like

    him.

    You will accomplish whatever you wish for in their company. (373)

    There is a great sight of spirituality in Bhai Sahib Ji's poetry. I

    would suggest the serious readers to read the rest of "Zindgi-Naama".

    It can be of utmost value for a spiritual seeker. The difficulty in

    comprehending everything that a Brahmgyani says or does is perhaps

    the genuine one for a normal being. The difficulty in realization is

    perhaps simply due to the difference in the spiritual states of the

    two.

    "Brahmgyani ki gat Brahmgyani jane" (Sukhmani Sahib)

    One ought not to waste time and effort in analyzing a brahmgyani,

    rather he should seek for his blessings and the true wisdom from him.

    A common person is mostly absorbed in the materialistic activities

    s

    urrounding him and occasionally spends a small part of his day

    thinking of the Supreme (if at all). The Puran Brahmgyani is totally

    absorbed in the Lord and is aloof of the effect of the materialism.

    He exists in the world like a common being yet is totally

    disconnected from it.

    A Humble Servant to the Lord

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