Bijla Singh

That article is on sikhfreedom.com which is also being redesigned.

I think it was a different Khushwant Singh whom Sant Ji mentioned in his speech. Surely, there were many traitors and we can't expect there to be only one Khushwant. Ranbir Singh Sandhu states in his book that it is not the same Khushwant. Has anybody ever verified the veracity of this information?

As far as I know he was against Sant ji but never advocated the attack.

Can't download. Can anyone put it somewhere as a pdf?

I think it is from Guru Granth Sahib Darpan.

Metal and MRI are not friends. Some Sikhs take the kakkars off but keep them attached to their body depending on which area of the body is being scanned. If it is upper body then some take off their kirpan and kara and keep them attached to their lower legs. This is just a suggestion. Otherwise take them off and put them back on afterwards. When you get home do one Jap Ji Sahib for each kakkar that was separated from your body and do Ardaas.

There used to be a Sikhi Projects forum. What happened to it? I needed help with a banner design. Could someone who knows how to do it pm me?

Hence, this is very reason gurbani cannot be confined to vikayaran framework.

An experience itself is not a language but when explained in any language, the words are written according to grammar. There is no language that is without its own grammatical rules. Gurbani has kanna, siharis, aunkars etc. which are part of grammar. Just like Gurbani, its viyakaran too is divine and part of revelation.

According to my understanding when we read gurbani, it connects to human consciousness

Gurbani appeals to mind for it to shed the false consciousness termed as “Ahanbudh” and adopt Bibek Budh which is the true knowledge that gives the ability to discern truth from falsehood. In this state, the world is seen as it is in a real state. Perceiving the world at different levels does not take away its existence.

when gurbani says world is false i perceived as that in the consciousness during naam simran/during patt- its not permanent therefore does not exist in the consciousness

You are simply playing with words. It makes absolutely no sense. Did God create the world? Yes He did. It follows that the world exists regardless of one’s perception. If I assume the world does not exist at one stage of consciousness (which is Vedantic thought rather than Gurmat) then how do you justify the human consciousness and Naam Simran to be real since these very things are part of the world? If the world is false then all actions and perceptions of humans are false as well. When you say world is not permanent it means it is temporary but existing but it does not follow that it is false. What does false mean? If you mean non-existence then how can you claim it is not permanent since it doesn’t exist to begin with? The world has to exist and be real for humans to do something of a value to achieve higher spiritual stage. To claim that the world is false is to claim that human actions including Naam Simran are false as well.

Deep non transcedental meditation is just like that but there is pure awareness of supreme consciouness. bhai vir singh ji talks about chaitan/supreme consciousness. The truth which you are talking about is nothing but supreme consciousness awareness bliss which is all pervading in all stages or in all aspects cannot be explained but experienced.

Deep meditation and higher experience cannot be termed as non-transcendental. A transcendental experience is beyond measure and words but a non-transcendental is its opposite. Chaintana refers to being awake and free from haumai at all times. In this state we gursikhs describe, the world is experienced as being temporary and God is actually seen pervading it. None of the gursikhs ever claim that the world ceases to exist. For example, a person like myself sees the world with haumai and I see no God present in it. This is because I have no spiritual elevation. I can only hold truth what Gurbani states but I myself have not experienced it. But if I were to rise above this state, I will experience and see what Gurbani states. Gurbani’s statements will be experienced. But never will the world cease to exist. Only God is its destroyer and its existence is not subject to human perception.

Knowledge (gian) etc are virtues of The Lord (prabhu) therefore he is in the nirgun form (without quality). These virtues are not within the human, therefore he is sargun form (with qualities, Braham with attributes), but Sat Chit Anand (existence-consciousness-bliss) is permeating in both and to whom I salute.

If this is the correct translation then it makes no sense at all. If knowledge is an attribute of God (and it is) then He cannot be without qualities because He has knowledge. Who is sargun? Is “he” referred to humans or God? If humans then it already says, humans do not have virtues. So humans cannot be sargun. If God then He cannot be without qualities which means He cannot be nirgun in literal sense. God being Sat Chit Anand tells me that He is real and existing. Therefore, there cannot exist a being that has no qualities whatsoever which means God has to have attributes to exist. Having Chit and Anand are attributes. Being Sat means to exist. Something that has no attributes is not real.

Gurmukh during spiritual experience does not care about semantics . Gurmukh spiritual experience during shabad surat and during process of getting rid of dualism is innocent and its not a requirement to be theologically sound to be in it.

Spiritual experience reveals what was hidden before but it doesn’t destroy the existence of the world. We know God is “Oat-Poat” with the world and spiritual experience reveals it to be true but doesn’t take away the existence of the world. Dualism can only occur if I say the world exists separately from God like in Islam.

Reality does exist in reality but our consciousness see the world as illusory as we are in the realm of maya but supreme consciousness see it as ultimately reality- nothing but god everywhere ek jot which does not ghat or bhaad, there is nothing but ek jot through out - individual see it as illusory but bhramgyani supreme consciuoness/perception only perceived as ek jot/hari.!!

I am not sure if you meant to say the bold part. Under the influence of maya we see the world as permanent not as illusory. We do not see God in it. Gursikhs see God pervading it and they see Ik Jot. This does not prove that the world does not exist in their perception. God and God pervading something means there has to be an existing world for God to pervade. God cannot pervade something that does not exist. How can gursikhs say God is present in the world when the world ceases to exist? Gursikhs see the world as temporary and they realize this fact. They see Ik Jot permeating everywhere which affirms Gurbani but the world does not appear as false in term of existence. Your thoughts are imbued in Vedanta of Samkara who was brutally refuted by Vivistadvaita Vedanta.

Please go over and contemplate 21st ashtpadi of sukhmani sahib nirgun (supreme consciousness) all folded in non transcedental state. It perception of maya/material world does not exist at all

By Guru Sahib’s kirpa I have gone over that Asatpadi many times including the entire Sukhmani Sahib and it is a boundless treasure. But in first 6 padas, Guru Sahib describes the state prior to world’s existence. God was all by Himself. This means even brahgyanis and their consciousness did not exist. Then He created the world (bisthaara) in 7^th pada. This means world started to exist. It does not state an illusion was created or the world still does not exist. If you can kindly post the relevant verses, perhaps I can contemplate on it but without that it is shooting in dark. Prior to creation, God is referred to as purely transcendent. I personally disagree with this statement but this is what Vedanta and many Sikh scholars state.

Vaheguru is in all but Vaheguru is not all. Monotheism is a general term and every religion has its own definition of it. It is derived from Greek words mono and theos and is not Christian exclusive. I agree existence is non-dual in Gurmat but this does not mean all is God or world has no existence. Guru Rakha

And your basis for this is a non-Sikh person? Gurmat is defined by Gurbani. No one else has this authority and no one else can be taken as authentic unless their statements are based on Gurbani.

Word monotheism refers to belief in One God who has no partners and none other is like Him. IkOankar refers to One God who is Absolute, Transcedent and Ik-Rass (never changing). He is within the creation and outside it meaning that the creation does not contain or confine Him. We can know Him through Gurbani but no one can comprehend Him.

It has already been explained, destiny is not written on forehead. Only karmas are which change according to one's way of life.

With all due respect, this entire discussion on nirgun sargun reads wrong. Questions and answers reveal that both are a bit lost. Maybe its wrong choice of words. While the intent is right and it is great of have this type of vichaar but I encourage usage of Gurbani so we don't miss the essence. Again, I intend no disrespect. Guru Rakha

Many Sikhs feel that white kids in America suffering less starvation than African kids is a random act of nature but that ultimately God evens this out via the fact that those innocents who suffer more are consequently closer to the mukhti of divine justice.

Karma must be understood based on Gurbani not how one feels. Gurbani is the ultimate authority here. Without previous life’s karma how do you explain one kid born in a poor family and another in a rich family? Gurbani says that all the relatives are result of previous life’s karma interaction.

ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਬਨਿਤਾ ਸੁਤ ਬੰਧਪ ਇਸਟ ਮੀਤ ਅਰੁ ਭਾਈ ॥ ਪੂਰਬ ਜਨਮ ਕੇ ਮਿਲੇ ਸੰਜੋਗੀ ਅੰਤਹਿ ਕੋ ਨ ਸਹਾਈ ॥1॥ (700)

Karma puts one in a certain situation but destination is not fixed. This life’s karma also plays its part. Having past life’s karma doesn’t mean this life’s karma is ineffective.

I totally disagree with this viewpoint Veerji. That God would ascribe greater material wealth to white folks seems ludicrous to me and this is a Hindutva belief.

No one says white people have more wealth. Skin color is due to DNA but it is created by God. Earth’s rotation around the Sun is due to gravity but it is created by God. Similarly, inheritance of wealth at birth is due to karma not accidental or random act of God without any basis whatsoever. If you say God is Just (and He is) then His dispense of wealth etc. must have a basis otherwise He is not Just and Wise. Without karma, there would be equal opportunities given to everyone at birth.

In USA, not all white people are rich. I have seen many starving and suffering worse than African Blacks. Majority of the people on Earth commit sins and do bad deeds so it makes sense why the majority would suffer in one way or another.

Hindutva is very specific ideology that was envisioned by Savarkar and founders of RSS. It is not based on Hindu books.

I believe we should be very thankful for Sikhi in our lives but we should not assume that we have a better present life or indeed past than anybody else.

Previous bhagtee greatly contributes. Those who come in contact with Satguru have better past karmas than others. Based on what choices they make, their new karma accumulates. Various eminent Sikhs have affirmed their past lives and bhagtee. This is not to say we should feel superior because Sikhs are instrcuted to remain humble. Ego is a malady. Sikh saints confirm that one’s lifetime’s worth of bhagtee is not enough to reach salvation. It takes many lives. Bhai Randhir Singh, Bhai Veer Singh, Sant Harnaam Singh and many others have written about past lives.

It would be foolish to assume that Abdali will be born a Sikh to suffer in the terrorist GOI Genocide of Sikhs or Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs in 1947......It would hardly be just for Indira Gandhi to be reincarnated as a Sikh suffering from cancer without any knowledge of her crimes.

Gurmat karma does not state that Indira Gandhi/Abdali or any killer of Sikhs would be born as a Sikh. In all likeliness they fell into lower joonis.

When the entire community suffers it is given that individuals suffer but it is not due to their past karma because collective karma does not exist and past karma does not determine one’s fate. Instead, leader and his followers are the ones acquiring new karma. The leader due to his past good karma was given the opportunity to become a leader and do greater good but instead he chose to do bad and harm one section of the community. So he acquires new karma and his goons incur new karma as well and they will suffer. Gurmat does not state they will suffer in the same manner or at the hands of the Sikhs etc.

If past karma does not exist then God is acting randomly. If past karma exists then God is dispensing justice based on a system. In both cases, God is the dispenser but one has a justification and the other doesn’t. One makes God Just while the other doesn’t.

Sikhs are not supposed to worry with past karma but doesn’t mean past karma does not exist. Gurbani says:

ਸੁਖੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਪੁਰਬ ਜਨਮ ਕੇ ਕੀਏ ॥ (1030)

Some dukh sukh come from past karma but their effects can be reduced. God writes up these karmas on one’s forehead as Gurbani says:

ਹਥਿ ਕਲੰਮ ਅਗੰਮ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਲਿਖਾਵਤੀ ॥ (261)

One’s reward and punishment cannot be blamed on God as an act of randomness because He is Most Just and Wise. Vaheguru alone knows everything. All I know is

ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਕੀ ਇਸੁ ਮਨ ਕਉ ਮਲੁ ਲਾਗੀ ਕਾਲਾ ਹੋਆ ਸਿਆਹੁ ॥ (651)

And I need to humbly submit to Satguru to break out of this cycle. Guru Rakha

Veerji the Hindu's and particularly their evil racist ideologue Rishi Manu devised the so-called Karmic system of justice as many nowadays interpret it. Guru Sahib turned these Hindu lies on their head by denying that the suffering seen in this life is as a result of past sins. As Guru Sahib were the champion of the poor (Garib Nawaz), the weak and the oppressed whom Hindutva terrorism accused of being responsible for their own suffering (due to past misdeeds in previous lives).

Sikh philosophy of karma is vastly different than that of Hindus, Jains and Buddhists. Mannu attributed caste system to karma in order to make it divine, rigid and unchangeable. Guru sahib rejected caste system altogether but does not mean He also rejected karma system. Guru Sahib offered the correct workings of the karma system and explained that it is not fixed, changeable and under the control of God.

1947+1984+the multiple other Islamic Ghallugharas against our Qaum conculsively show that we can never agree with Manu Smriti.

There is no such thing as collective karma of an entire community. I do not know why without ever properly understanding Gurbani people start rejecting karma. Gurbani must be understood on the basis of Gurbani alone not Hindu philosophy. Gurmat karma cannot be rejected on the basis of falsity of Hindu karma. This is a foolish approach. Holocausts happen due to wrong decisions made by the leaders as is clear from “Babar Vani” Shabads. Sikhs were killed because they were Sikhs. Karma works at an individual level where two people directly interact with each other. For example, when Abdali attacked and 30,000 Sikhs died as a result, it was not due to past karma of 30,000 Sikhs who had joined hands to kill Abdali in past life. This is ridiculous. Abdali made a decision based on his fanaticism and greed to control India. Even if for the sake of argument we assume that Abdali’s actions were due to the past karma, then it by no relieves him of the burden and responsibility of murdering 30,000 people. He acquired new karma and it was still a sin. Karma is not created to get even, seek revenge and kill people. Karma’s purpose is to motivate people to do good things because good deeds produce rewards. It is an exercise of free will rather than making a person a puppet at the hands of unjust false God.

This is what our enemies laughed about when they tossed up Sikh babies on to spears in Pakistan in 1947 and when they set fire to Sikhs in 1984 with kerosene supplied by Congress. That this was pur so-called karmic punishment for past misdeeds. No Sikh should believe this lie.

Agreed but this doesn’t repudiate karma system. Rejecting karma based on a false premise will not lead to a true conclusion. If we get rid of karma and claim that God alone is causing holocausts, poverty, destruction etc. then it makes Him unjust contrary to His very nature. Gurmat God is Just, Wise and All-loving. He cannot give unequal opportunities to people randomly. There has to be a basis and that is people’s karma. Material wealth etc. is due to past karma. Being born in the house of a Sikh is due to past good karma. It is a fact.

In Gurbani, karma is always explained at an individual level for no two people have the same thought, deed, upbringing, birth, course of life etc. Therefore they will never have the same karma. God alone knows every intricate detail of karma but doesn’t mean karma is false. Guru Rakha

So if a girl was raped she deserved it for her past life karmas? We shouldn't save her either if we could as it would intervene with her karmas punishment going against god's justice?

For a Sikh revelation (Gurbani) is superior to reason. If Gurbani says karma system is created by God according to which the world operates then it must be held as true. No excuses or reasons. Karma cannot be understood completely by humans. God alone knows everything.

If a girl gets raped, it doesn’t necessarily follow that it is due to her past karma. In one instance, it could be that the rapist had some karmic debt to pay and cause harm to the girl. He decides to rape the girl instead of choosing any other way. This causes a new karma to begin. In second instance, it could be that the girl had no past karma interaction with the rapist and the latter decides to start a new karma altogether which is not linked to any past karma. In both cases, a new karma cycle begins. Only God knows all circumstances.

Karma doesn’t decide the fate nor does it fix the action. Past Karma or predestination only works up to putting one in a certain situation after which it is up to the person to decide his course of action. If he is manmukh he will do bad and incur more bad karma. If he is gurmukh he will make the right choice and end the karma or incur good karma. This is why Gurmat is so essential to become free from karmic cycle. Gurmat doesn’t prohibit Sikhs from fighting injustice and oppression at all levels. We are not slaves of karma nor do karmas have any power of their own. Power of Naam can cut down and eliminate karma completely. A gursikh is active in spheres of life.

In religions that do not believe in karma state that everything is decided and done by God which means rape etc. is done by Allah reducing the criminals to mere puppets. This is an invalid system and makes God unjust.

Karma works at individual level and there is no such thing as collective karma of a community, religion or country. Guru Rakha

I have not read the entire article but I think one reply should suffice. It would've been better if 13mirch had consulted. I am not sure if replying is fruitful or not. Will have to think about it because there are many barking dogs like him who shouldn't be given the attention they are not worthy of.

Some points have already been refuted in existing articles. For example, 1857 myths are debunked here: http://sikhfreedom.com/1857.html. I wrote a long article on Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s physical demise and Gurugaddi given to Gurbani which is posted in parts here www.namdharitruth.info under flawed history.

Kalima or Kalma which refers to the passage or statement one must recite in order to be initated into Islam. It testifies his faith in Islam and Mohammad.

Karam-kaand itself and turning something into a karam-kaand are two different things. One can turn bowing to Guru Sahib into a karam-kaand but the act in itself is not so. On the other hand, fasts and kalima etc are pure karam-kaand.

Only the 6th and 10th Gurus had multiple wives. It has been proven by scholars beyond the doubt that the 5th and the 7th Gurus had only one wife.

I think you need to stop thinking Muslim way and understand Gurmat from Gurmat's point of view. What would you rather have? A fixed age for everyone regardless of their physical and mental readiness or a choice left to you to decide when their children are ready. Gurbani is unversal so it doesn't have dated messages which many times are inapplicable. Since mental, emotional and physical maturity varies from a person to person, it is ridiculous to fix one age for everyone. Mohammad took pagan custom and made it fixed leaving no flexibility and giving no choice of freedom. Had he known better he would've considered mental, emotional and physical growth as essential criteria to determine maturity. Gurbani gives us principles to abide by and we make choice and decision based on them. Rehat Maryada clearly states when a girl should be married. I have collected enough material to refute Muslims on this point but Guru Sahib is keeping me busy with other tasks as of now.

Also, please stop posting links to that stupid, slanderous and full of lies website. Guru Rakha