kullykhalsa

time to be a little mischievous tell your dad to sign over stuff to you or your mom for tax reasons etc

we take abuse like this too lightly take him for all he has got he doesn't deserve it anyway (within the confines of the law)

I hope you solve this as every day your mom stays and gets beat is another day of pain. pls send me a message if you need some singhs to help advise your dad on the reasons he shouldnt beat his wife!

Well arent the Panj Pyare just people and as such wont they just have differing opinions as well ....hence the major differences in our panth currently when we have so many different panj pyare giving out different "types" of amrit and different advice.

You should ask your question here forums a place to bounce ideas and different interpretations so that the end user (o.p) gets a wide range of advice and he picks whatever makes more sense to him surely!

amansingh said Personally, I do not care for the opinions of any sants or bhramgianis. More often than not, they are parasites to the panth that do far more harm than good. These blood-sucking sants/bhramgiani's think they know better than our Gurus?

Kullykhalsa,

You surprise me that you ticked like this comment in the above post, nindiya of mahapurkhs, i am surprised bro!

I think what amansingh was trying to get at was the fact so many people follow sants/brahmgianis etc when more often then not they are not what the claim to be. Now i am not saying that there are no sants or Bhramgianis but what aman refers to is that we do not need these people as we have the ultimate guide in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. For example i know a lot of people who follow sants and dera's etc and these people would say the same as you no point saving people who do nindiya of mahapurakhs, we need to learn for ourselves and start becoming real sikhs (leaders, brave, courageous not sheep). Now i dont think Aman was doing nindiya of mahapurakhs in fact what he was doing was opening your eyes to the fact that for every Sant Baba Thakur Singh Ji there are another 4/5 con artists.

Savinderpal when you have read the above post please re read it to make sure you understand, very eloquently put.

by literally a bujjar kurehit do you mean it is not a bujjar kurehit if it was then it would be one of the 4 bujjar kurehit (halal meat, hair,adultery, intoxicants) again your misreprenting sikhism whereas we are asking questions you deem yourself able to give answers and factuals ones THAT ARE WRONG (please listen to the story of Ram Rai)

maybe thats the problem not enough independent thinking, i truly hope you do change your views because remember as amritdharis we are the dust at the feet of saints, we are not cleaner or better than anyone else and espousing that type of nonsense is exactly the parchar we wont to move away from!

Provided explanation above , if you dont want to accept it , its your issue.

breaking your amrit is not bull <banned word filter activated> , it is one of the kureiths (eating from non amritdhari's plate)

as for your second point , my mother isnt amritdhari , and she well knows the rehat and keeps sucham

and its kind of stupidity in India to think that you want another person to eat from same plate you are eating. no one asks any one to do that here

Hardly an explanation its more you just bleating off random stuff that doesnt actually make sense youve shown no though process no logic not even a modicum of rationality.

Taking amrit isnt like the christian version of baptism it becomes a part of you and hence to break your amrit is a huge thing now completed by any of the 4 bujjar kurehits not just stuff you make up and try and pass off as fact! please tell me where and why eating from a non amritdharis plate would break your amrit in your own words?

well my mother is how would you feel if we refused to eat in your house, im not sure how much bhagti your mother has done, maybe i should also check that her standards meet mine i mean we need to eat from sarbloh dishes and prepared while singing shabads etc sometimes i wish people would think before they type singh

Hope you can learn from the above post from amansingh too, sometimes its worth putting yourself in someone elses shoes before you bleat on and try and scare people into thinking they have broken their amrit.

if you were raised in India with cultural values you would understand where this comes from

you being amritdhari can only share food with non amritdhari , and yes you are more cleaner .

only if you follow rehat

also, you don't know if your spouse has been drinking of smoking now or has done so in her past .

not only sharing food with non amritdhari is bad but

its more worse taking jhoot from such a person

because it indirectly infringes your rehat and sharing food with non amritdhari breaks your amrit

Guru Gobind Singh Ji said

from now on , any decission from panj pyaare would be my hukam

panj pyaare said "no jhoot" including sharing food with with non amritdhari spouse

then its hukam , sir mathe te

you wana quesiton guru go ahead .

the point comes when a person is arguing with guru is because

that person has been doing this from long line and love doing that thing

now when guru says its bad and the person , is like "no i wont change it i have not done anything bad"

the truth is that , that person doesnt love guru and cannot take his hukam .

just like dalla singh

Not suprising how many people turn from sikhi when trying to debate or even raise a valid point they are met with statements such as "you wanna question guru go ahead" or "that person doesnt love guru and cannot take his hukam" feels like a childish playground debate. now if you cant justify your reason for believing in something beyond "guru said so" then you are a sheep, being able to understand what guru says and why he says it now that is what we all want. So instead of bringing people down and telling them bullsh*t like it "breaks your amrit" and amritdharis are "cleaner" try treating people with a bit more respect and pyaar and maybe we would actually get somewhere!

Now ias an example your mother was a non amritdhari and i came up to her and said i was "cleaner" because i followed rehat or that eating food from her plate would "break my amrit" then how would your mother feel? in real world application of what you say it doesnt work because its too rigid thats my 2 cents anyway!

There is no such thing as a 'non-practising Sikh'.

If they TRULY ACCEPT Guru Jee as their Father, then they wouldn't be 'non-practising'.

I find it really interesting how you call the Muslim bowing down a ritual, but the 'non-practising Sikh' bowing down is somehow justifyable and not a ritual.

Of course there is such a thing as a non practising sikh in other words a non baptised sikh, people who identify themselves as sikh but dont follow rehat that is a non practising/baptised sikh the same as in catholocism etc.

Im not saying that the moneh who bows is better or worse then the muslim who bows, im saying generally quite a lot of my moneh friends know about sikhi and are fiercely loyal to sikhi but choose not to practice/follow rehat doesnt mean they are not sikh and in the same way the muslim who bows will be doing it for ritualistic sake (unless someone has told him what it means to bow and why we do it)

I have been reading the comments on this topic which is very relevant for today's society. Many people have this question. Some comments have strayed away from answering the question in the topic heading. I too have strayed away in my comments. Bhul Chuk Maaf.

As I was doing my Nitnem this morning this topic crept into my mind. I was doing Anand Sahib Paath and as I remember I was on the pauri, 'Sur Nar Mun Jan Amrit Khojde So Amrit Gur Te Paaya'. I felt as though this pauri provides the basis for answering this question.

I want to share something from my life experience:

I was born into a Gursikh family, my parents were both Amritdhari. I have never cut my hair, never ate meat, never smoked. As was growing up, I used to go to Gurmat class, Punjabi class, Kirtan class and Paath Santhiya class, But I never really understood what it all meant until I was older. I would read Gurbani but I never actually stopped to understand what Guru Ji was telling me. I always felt that I would take Khande di Pahul one day but now was not the time. I had schools exams to study for, make a career, get married etc.... Many of us Punjabi Sikhs think that oh Amrit is not that important and we are Punjabi, Sikhi is ours, we can take Amrit later on in life, whats the big deal?. I too used to think like this, the fact that I was effectively living like someone who was Amritdhari, I thought that oh I too can take Amrit later, it's not that big a deal.

It wasn't until I started to listen to Maskeen Ji's kathas that I really began to understand what Gurbani was telling us. It began to start making sense. I could read Gurbani and understand what I was reading. I began to do more of my own research, listening to other Giani's kathas reading steeks, Sikhi to the Max was also extremely helpful. I felt closer and closer to Guru Ji. I began to feel that nothing else matters in this world. I felt as though Guru Ji was my best friend and I want to go and hug him so tight and never let go from his protection.

Guru Ji is all about love, Waheguru Ji is love, Waheguru Ji's language is love. Whoever can love Waheguru will merge with Waheguru and achieve liberation, But to achieve this there is a process. Panj Pyare in 1699 gave their heads for Guru Ji without asking why. This is love and devotion. One who loves truly does not consider consequences, they just accept hukkam because they have faith.

I began to feel the same inside me, each time I went to the Gurdwara and did ardas/matha tek before Guru Ji I felt Guru Ji's presence inside me, it was amazing. My love for Guru Ji grew and grew and I finally decided that it was time for me to show my devotion by offering myself at Guru Ji's feet. It took me 26 years to realise this. Some people realise Guru JI's love earlier, they are lucky.

I will never forget the day I took Khande di Pahul, I had tears of joy that Guru Ji has accepted me as his Sikh. The most amazing thing is that each time I do Naam Simran and Paath, I get the same taste on my tongue as the Amrit I took at my Amrit Sanchar, this is what evoking Amrit is. I am still amazed to this day. I feel that my journey has just begun though, the more Naam Abhiyas I do the more the taste will stick and become permanent and one day I will receive the Dibb Dristee mentioned in Anand Sahib.

It is clear to me that I had to take Amrit and become Amritdhari, otherwise I would not have been able to taste the Amrit in Gurbani. I realise now how important taking Khande di Pahul is to achieving liberation. So yes I do feel (from my experience) that only those who take Amrit from Khande di Pahul will achieve mukti. Gurbani says that those who drink Amrit live forever. To me this says it all. Our life is too short so we must make the most of it.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

WOW ^^ bump

if only the present is relevant than why do we listen to sakhia from over 400 years ago please think before you type there is a lot to be learned from the past

but thanks for the information as it is always best to be informed with knowledge than not to seek it out

Sachkhand is not a place like a planet or country. It cannot be populated. If you know anything about sikhi then you should know that Waheguru is everything and everything is Waheguru. We are given this life to break free from reincarnation and merge back into Waheguru. Gurbani tells us this. Please read and understand Gurbani which can explain better than I can. Please read if you have not done so the pauris I have mentioned. It should be very clear and self explanatory.

Sorry i think you have misunderstood the question, i didnt ask for qualification on what sachkand is, our role in merging back into Waheguru, nor on the infinitness of Waheguru these things are the very basic tenets of sikhi.

Having read the Vaar that you suggested im guessing that "Binu Gur Darasanu Daykhanaa Bhramataa Dhiray Tdaurhi Naheen Paaay, Binu Guru Poorai Aaay Jaaay" is what you are referring to.

Again for the record i asked pre guru's time how does this fit into our belief in others reaching sachkand?, i think one of the previous posters mentioned guru ji being in human form pre his existence to us as Guru Nanak Dev Ji is this correct?

Dr Ambedkar

Inspired a generation pretty much the closest you can come to being a sikh without actually being called a sikh!

Some of his quotes are just #inspirational

yes why not i think for most part sikhi is rational and for the other parts i have faith/belief

however the irrational logic in this case is too much for a blind leap of faith hence asking more learned sikhs as to what they think/ what gurbani says

everydays a school day after all

There are 4 pauris where Bhai Gurdas Ji mentions Charnamrit. Pauri 3 Vaar 1, Pauri 23 Vaar 1, Pauri 7 Vaar 11 and Pauri 22 Vaar 40.

The point is that one cannot and absolutely CANNOT achieve mukti without Guru Ji. Gurbani keeps reiterating this and Bhai Gurdas Ji's Vaar keeps mentioning this. One may live their life by: being good, doing seva, not cutting their hair, avoiding getting entangled in the 5 evils BUT one will NOT acieve mukti without Guru Ji. what may happen by doing good deeds is that one may get another chance in the same life or in another live to take Kande di pahul and accept Guru Granth Sahib Ji as their Guru. Pauri 22 Vaar 40 explains this fact.

And before the gurus how about all those lifes/souls? where they just given another chance based on their deeds, how can you accept guru granth sahib ji as guru if guru was not provided in this way pre 1300AD?

Sachkand has only been populated since 1300AD and the billions of souls before that are just reincarnated? Seems a bit illogical?

Thanks for the Pauris!

sorry what is the difference? please expand on your point....

I didnt slander you a manmukh you are a manmukh in the same way i am comfortable admitting i am a manmukh(obviously trying to be a gurmukh) if you think your a gurmukh then thats a different case then im slandering your opinion of yourself not what you actually are. If this conversation proves anything its that we are both NOT gurmukhs yet. a Gurmukh is someone like sant baba gurbachan singh who epitomises all that is sikh in every word and action can you truly call yourself the same?

Okay I'm 16 Years old and I have found some discrepancies in Sikhism that have caused me to lose faith. First of all guru Nanak dev ji did all he could to avoid violence and he was automatically respected wherever he went. Guru gobind Singh ji was war oriented and proclaimed Sikhs as the warrior race. Guru gobind Singh ji also said that we must keep a turban and Kesh. On the other hand guru Nanak dev ji said in one of his sakhis where the pandit was tying a bracelet on him, that he won't wear it because no exterior feature will help someone reach god. In addition guru Nanak dev ji said that it doesn't matter what religion you are as long as you're one with god and are humble. Guru Gobind Singh ji said we should wear a turban because kings at the time wore it and we should be proclaimed as kings. In my opinion that's not humble at all. Guru Nanak dev ji said that we are all equal no matter what and you shouldn't care if you have something others don't. Guru gobind Singh ji gave us a turban so we stick out and be recognized as Sikhs. Again not humble. Also Sikhs are not allowed to have their backs and feet towards Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. But guru Nanak dev ji in one of his sakhis guru nakak dev ji went to a mosque and pointed his feet towards Mecca which Muslims could not do but he said that god is everywhere. I believe in guru Nanak dev ji but not the others after him. I believe I should cut my kesh now because I don't see a reason to keep it. How do I approach my parents about this? They aren't really religious and my dad trims but he loves India and Indian culture. He's very authoritarian but how do I approach my patents about this?

OP now i know why you posted as Anon because these questions are so basic even basic research will provide answers but seems as you are not willing to learn and to be a sikh YOU MUST be willing to learn.

at the end of the day its your life approach your parents however you as a parent would want to be approached, say in 30 years time when you have a teenager and he thinks its ok to do something that you are against.

At the end of the day if you can honestly say that the reason you want to cut your hair is not for fashion/girls/peer pressure then i would be impressed, will it be a nose job for you in a few years if you dont like that facial feature

Lastly, remember you are posting on a SIKH forum and as much as you are our little brother it is our father you are calling "not humble/not humble at all/war orientated" before we let you slander our father anymore we would be remiss to warn you that we are his sikhs and we are fearless

So people have only been achieving Mukti in the last 600 years only?

Humans have been around for over 100,000 years!

Anyone got an answer to the above, before sikhi the billions of people never achieved Mukhti because they never took amrit so an all powerful waheguru never allowed these people to achieve Mukhti because they never took amrit which wasnt available to them? i find that logically very hard to believe.

As for the fact that only 1 sikh guru took amrit that is incorrect as the jyot of all the gurus was the same what one guru did the other gurus also did, you will be hard pressed to find the gurus ever contradict each other because they share the same jyot it is only the human body that the jyot resided in that was different

LOL you know what i wrote quite a harsh reply to you before i edited this i clicked on your profile and saw that your still a university boy, chal well i think we shall leave it at that if you HONESTLY think that i slandered baba ji then you should be doing more than insulting me singh, sikhs are fearless and never put up with anyone bad mouthing our gursikhs i for one wouldnt let it stand.. Good luck with the exams little bhaji may they bestow more worldly knowledge onto your young shoulders.

doing path without wanting anything will be the hardest thing for you to get your head around

dont listen to the people who say you need a mahapurakh to guide you when you have your guru you dont need anyone else.

when your doing paath concentrate and dont pray for things pray for happiness. seems your still stuck in a world of maya and ego and pride whereby you judge others on what they have or how much paath they do, when really you should concentrate on making yourself a better person

dont take the tablets its the weak way out sikhs dont commit suicide because the pain and hole you leave behind for your loved ones will be huge and its the cowards way out!

Because of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Khalsa, Sant Baba Kartar Singh ji Khalsa picked Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa as Jathedar and he drove home the Dharam Yudh Morcha. Because of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Khalsa today we have learned Gurmukhs that are teaching proper pronunciation of Gurbani to countless youths all around the world.

It seem for some reason you have taken my comment about random sants to mean these sants in particular and have taken my view that people should ask more questions then relying on sants for intepretation/translation of bani as offensive, this is a difference of opinion it makes absolutely no difference whether you believe my opinion to be right or your own!

You cannot even be the dust under Sant ji's feet. Sant ji went from village to village teaching sangat to only bow to Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj as Guru. Sant ji discussed with Hindu Sadhus, Udhasis, Nirmale, among others and brought them to Gurmat; to Satguru's feet. Countless Sikhs took Amrit after listening to his Katha of Gurbani. Ever heard of Shaheed Jathedar Bhai Gurdev Singh Ji Kaunke? Sant ji through the blessing of Satguru transferred normal Sikhs into Saint Soldiers.

Again you seem to alude to Sant Jarnail singh someone who i have utmost respect for and again you seem to have a problem with me reading and listening to my own sikhi rather than yours

Sant ji brought a Brahmin to his knees who challenged Sant ji on doing Katha on just IK Onkar. The Katha went on for weeks and there was no end in sight. The Brahmin's ego was destroyed.

Before you run your mouth on Sant ji, go to your local university and close it down as you don't need learned invdividuals. Yet you hang your worldly degree proudly in a frame for all to see. This is how pathetic you are. Just because Satguru did not give Baba Deep Singh ji Khalsa a piece of paper certifying him does not mean we don't have a formal system to learn Gurbani. Again you really show how big of a imbecile you are.

And to add the icing to the imbecile cake. If we don't need to listen to Gurmukhs, then you can't call those who use Sikhi as a tool for terrorism bad. For their interpretation is just as correct as your stupidity. No benchmark means everything goes. So next time Sikhs are called terrorist because of 1985 air india bombing, you have to agree that was Sikhi.

I really enjoying showing how stupid you urban Sikhs are.

again you seem to be hurt by my comments which were not AIMED AT SANT JI but more at random "sants" and "baba". Please re read my statements if you really have a problem and if you feel that i have disrespected sant ji then you should do more than just shout abuse at me infact you should send me a PM and teach me a lesson lets see the soldier part of your saint soldier in action. Again how do you judge if someone is a gurmukh im all for listening to people who know more than us just that there are a lot of fake people in this world i would rather trust my own judgement. again i reitirate please send me a PM if you strictly want to engage in throwing out child like comments.

The hukam of waheguru is what you make it to often its easy to get embroiled in the whole this is whats meant to be but you can actively change that.

I for one do not feel sorry for you, you are powerful beyond measure, you probably dont realise the big impact you have on your family and friends. Even the sangat on here but it sounds like you could do with more chardikala sangat feel free to drop the posters on this site a message if your close to their home towns because end of the day who doesnt want to spend time with their family

I suppose it boils down to what type of person you want to be.

Everyones INTEPRETATION of bani is different you do not have the entire say so on what is and what isnt maryada etc.

Now although i believe that a marriage in front of guru ji should be between man and a woman that is my PERSONAL interpretation and if said gay sikh was to question me i would advice him of the reasons why i BELIEVE that this is the reason.

Sikhi is personal and for too long we have had a sant ji says this and sant ji intepreted this in his katha and thats what i believe we have become sheep to these "sants" or these more "learned" people and then we wonder why the youth leave sikhi in droves because they are forced out for asking questions. They barely know the basics because its so regimented now by the patronising people who run our gurdwara and committees.

Read bani intepret for yourself be happy and everyone else who says no this is wrong or this isnt the correct way of doing this (not just in this issue) let them bark as they will never affect your life! Daya, Nimrata and Pyare are just some of the qualities that the majority of posters seem to miss on this forum (discounting Questioner/Neosingh/Mehtab Singh who always seem to exhibit these virtues and as such are the posters on this forum who actually change peoples minds or in other words bring people to the light)

from the guys account i cant see where he says that being gay is acceptable or unacceptable he simply mentions it isnt expressedly forbidden (Waheguru seems not to impose limits on us instead letting us choose our way except for some bujjer kurehits)

Hes not trying to alter maryadha or change your rehit he may be adjusting it for his lifestyle but dont we all some in bigger way then others, unless your strictly following maryada i mean down to the absolute T, then who are we to say he is wrong completely and im guessing if we all followed maryada we'd have a bit more love and compassion for someone we are supposed to treat as a brother

He is not a sikh ^^ but you are??

About time people started thinking themselves instead of allowing some random to tell you on a forum what is and what isnt rehat!

how many people have actually read the particular shabad and understood it and then depending on your personal circumstances your interpretation will be different

I for one dont think just because someone is gay you can say they are not sikh. Live and let live why we as sikhs feel we need to force maryada on people or force them into thinking our way i will never know. instead how about we all think about our own personal sikhi surely a better use of our time!

I also find it very interesting that of all these posts only Questioners is worth listening to (it has subsequently become popular), a lot of the other posts are just negative and arguing without thinking about what your actually arguing about.

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