kullykhalsa

"God is compassionate, but has no pity."

Im sorry but where is this from, please state when your are using opinion and fact to date i didnt know anyone had a definition of what god is or isnt?

I think the point is that although the religous practices that some of these people (such as idol worship) partake in is silly and ridiculous most of these practices dont hurt us (discounting some islamic practices)

Now guru said we are all one, that is guru jis very first message until we start treating everyone as part of one, united then we fail in understanding the rest of bani

Now as long as people dont disrespect bani then they are free to follow whichever religion they choose but they should note all these religions are all part of the "one" and everything they pray to reaches waheguru in a round about sort of way. Now if someone like Rah Raheem harms our sisters brothers even if they are part of his "dera" then it becomes our problem to intercede and fight injustice.

Its not about respect for prophet mohammed its more about respect for the people that believe in him if they choose to do that then its fine, but if they choose to emulate his life by sleeping with young children then im afraid it becomes a sikh problem

My friend you compare Atheism to Islam and what have you based this conclusion on?

Yes, I'm an Atheist, I was a Sikh once and an amrithdhairi, I saw no difference in the Sikh religion and all other main stream religions. The Sikhs I have spoken to are all deluded in this thought that we differ from all main stream religions but never have I been given a strong answer to challenge my opinion. It’s for more easier for me to make an comparison between Islam and Sikh religion and straight away I can read through some of these posts, many of you do sound like Islamic fundamentalists:

Ksingh its quite harsh to say many of us sound like islamic fundamentalist, i suggest you read more on both religions to be aware of the differences

· The need for conversion

we do NOT CONVERT, we never ask people to convert or want them to convert unless its from their own heart, so incorrect if you can find any shabad or any saying which says please do show us, please no more opinions not based on fact

· You cannot marry outside of your religion

Sikhi is a way of life and diluting that way of life means your sikhi becomes weaker, you can choose to marry outside your religion but it will dilute your sikhi and why would u want to do that? i want to be able to share kirtan/nitnem etc with my wife. but apparently according to you that is backward?

· The Sikh temples need to enforce a stronger policy on Sikh marrying Sikhs

Yes sikhi says that sikhs should marry sikhs, if im a sikh and i love a christain what exactly do i love about her? is the love a veil for lust? do i love her personality, what about her habits her beliefs i can agree with someones beliefs but doesnt mean i will practice them, and when you have children will they be raised as sikhs or christians

Are Sikhs that scared about the religion becoming extinct that you require the following to keep it alive.

Majority of the youth followers joining the religion are heavily influenced by the Sikh political issues in the late 70’s and 80’s. The hatred fuels your religion, shocking, same as Islam.

Suddenly the need for the religion to be recognised as separate ideology from all Indian faiths, sounds allot like how Islam wants to separate its roots from all Abrahamic religions. The similarities are very visible. Is it not few years back Akaal Thakat, the political body of the Sikhs announced, you cannot be called a Sikh until you have become an amrtihdhari Sikh. Straight away the Sikh religion has decreased it’s numbers of its followers.

Political issues are playing a stronger part just because we are becoming more aware of them, to you it feels political to the rest its our mothers sisters and brothers who were murdered and raped by a govt sworn to protect us. again like most atheist you do not feel a bond to the next person of love or hate instead your life is probably pretty insignificant. A sikh is a learner hence anyone that learns is a sikh, the SGPC may release statements etc but it is your beliefs that count!

As Sikhs you allow a religious political body to run the religion, which is located in a completely different country and cultural differences are never taken into consideration, damn this sound allot like Catholicism. At least in Catholicism they have strong number of followers.

The acceptance of non Asian Sikhs is becoming an issue regarding mainstream Sikhs e.g. 3ho Sikhs. Similarity again with Islam, the ongoing conflict between Shia, Sunnis and Sufis. May not be on that scale but it’s understandable as the Sikh religion is not as large.

In the most part non asian sikhs are accepted, ive never been to a gurdwara where i see white sikhs black sikhs treated differently! cultural differences do not matter to sikhs we are the same in UK/Canada/India whats right is right and that crosses more than countries borders

People from India (Hindu) who I have spoken to, acknowledge Sikh religion is different, it’s a branch of Islam and the core philosophy is more Islam then Hindhu. Now you tell me how is that so? Sikhs are suppose to be distinct, well non Sikhs don’t see that distinction. Majority of the studies. Which are conducted within India regarding religion, the Sikh religion is acknowledged as Abrahamic religion then Dharmaic. Well how has that suddenly changed, maybe to do with the internal misunderstandings within the religion.

Non sikhs like yourself dont see the distrinction because u speak to hindus and muslims about sikhi and then wonder why you dont know the correct answers. if i was going to a photography course i wouldnt speak to a florist about it? speak to knowledgeable sikhs and do your OWN research instead of spouting b/s you heard from some brahmin

After independence of India and Pakistan, main stream Sikhs have continued to push Sikhs out of the religion because they viewed the teachings differently to the main stream and the number of Sikhs got smaller. Sikhs seem to have this trend of pushing its followers out.

This is probably the only point i agree with you on the general division of sikhs by jathebandis and different teachings which dont really matter

Atheism has allot of flavours, which is fantastic. Why would someone bore themselves with eating the same food every day. Looking at the Sikhs religion through history, there were many flavours many Philosophies maybe that was the reason why I was attracted to it, But, as a Sikh you only can go so far before the holes in the religion start to appear and when you question, you are told to be silent and accept it. As a Human being it’s in my nature to evolve, learn and question.

OH why didnt you say you were attracted to sikhi so many years ago! lol you really are a child arent you but im glad your asking questions because then we can explain to you. honestly a lot of what you mention is not profound its more like GCSE RE. what holes? please explain? please evolve but realise you have the answer in front of you, realise that you havent even scratched the surface of sikhi you probably dont know punjabi in my opinion there is no chance you know gurmukhi or enough of the saakhiya, i suggest you start talking and hanging with sangat that are happy to answer your questions just as long as you dont ask them as you have done here, with a heart full of ego and pride that you think your better and have figured it out sikhi much brighter people than you have tried and failed to truly understand sikhism

Why would I need to follow something that was written 500 years ago.

the fact is why do people still read Homers Odyysey, why do they still listen to Einsteins theorys, or Platos sayings or Sun Tzus art of war, because some things are beyond the time they were written in some things last till the end of times, and i can assure you that me and you are insignificant specks on this great journey, myself and fellow sikhs do not follow "something that was written 500 years ago (btw if you ahd studied sikhi you would know to show some respect)" we follow a way of life with our guru as our leading light!

Welcome to the Catwalk Singh, the fact is we stand out people wanna stare at us let em!

i have no advice for you except just do it, and once you do it once make sure u carry on do not go back (admitting defeat)

i rarely get questions i get the general "paki" shout from a window of a car but nothing too bad!

Be Fearless be a Singh

what is the b/s above another perfect example of "only five" typing before thinking!

Sikhs are not slaves of their elders, yeah help your elders out because they have given you so much but live your life for you, only do it if you want to do it, sikhs are NEVER I REPEAT NEVER slaves

2Ask your 'surveyed' women whether they would live with the in-laws and make sure in-laws are completely taken care of. Food is made when and how many times they want everyday for the rest of their life, house is clean, kids are fed, clothed and sent to school."

Think about what impression you are giving out, the women singhs require are as confident as the men, we do not subscribe to roles of making food and cleaning the house for women, oh how the stories of Mao Bhago are lost on people like yourself. if thats the type of woman you want to look for go ahead but please dont make assumptions for all sikhs! p.s i dont agree with "attraction" either being the only option of choosing!

^^ seem to be controversial in every thread legal singh

I suggest you say that to a singh from the midlands about the general assumption you have made about our brothers and fathers and community ( alot of this stuff is underground - a lot of the families dont acknowledge or ask for help), as for this particular case i think youll find the lesta singhs did a job well done and have been dogged by the police ever since!

But please carry on with your rhethoric because we all know your probably an armchair general who has no real life experience!

I hope you have never worn a t shirt that may potentially lead you to have bare arms, maybe bare neck maybe it doesnt fit properly and your backsides on show!

Now i am no one to criticise Bhagat Jaswant singh but people you have maharaj in front of you stop relying on other people to tell you what maharaj is telling you himself!!!

Look at the way some of our gurus dressed http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/63504-guru-gobind-singh-jis-attire/

and so goes the circle of empathy ^^ if no one says anything because its always going to be someones family friend then it will always happen!

glad to know that respect for the anand karaj goes as far as thinking about telling someone what they are doing is wrong!

the f

Of course I'm not proud. Really I would like us all to be law abiding citizens, which most of us in the UK are. This is why we don't get a bad reputation in the media as much as Pakistanis. However saying that we do need people to protect us, because if we don't then we will get rolled over, its a sad reality. If we didn't have any gangsters in Southall and slough then we would have ended up like people in Birmingham, where the youth are bullied and girls pimped. Im not saying as if this doesn't happen in Southall and slough, but its no way as bad as Birmingham. None of these gangs started of like this, it was to protect our community. But now they have to do it by other means, e.g. dealing. I put the word Punjabi in inverted commas, I didn't use the word Sikh because I know they definitely are not and they certainly are not Punjabi, because this is not something our forefathers would be proud of.

I have a lot of respect for lawyers and all the people protesting in central London against the atrocities in India.

I was just pointing out to the op the difference between north and the south.

The fact is singhs in london need protection in groups because they do not feel secure on there own. Protection of our community happens in numerous way, dealing and acting like a gangster doesnt HELP, if everyone just had some pride and shame in their families all these girls wouldnt be pimped nor dudes bullied! We are all sikhs its not up to gangsters to protect you. (FEARLESS)

^^bump sounds brilliant, hopefully someone has more info

the depressing state of todays youth

couple of the above points are false, one poster above suggest only sikhi will get you out of this dunia (strange that we had muslim/hindu saints contribute to bani but you feel that you can dismiss their religion)

OP if you prefer to work on spirtuality than work on it, i myself am a sikh and if you read bani thats essentially what it says, your actions will be those of a sikh even if you dont think they are! Find whatever route works for your soul that makes sense to you never let another dictate the terms of your life!

no you do not need a guide absolutely not, there are plenty of examples that show you do not need a guide...in fact looking for a guide just perputuates this sant baba/bibi brahmgiani economy in india

a simple search would have bought up numerous topics around this issue

^^ from the south then i guess lol!

agree with the above, the dream seems very insecure the peacock "aka god" chooses you from 3 friends hmmmm

most of the time dreams are just your subconscious thoughts coming to the forefront

lol its not incest unless they are closely related but find out your bf's pind and you should be able after asking your dad a few questions to know if you are a)from the same pind, b) from a nearby pind c)a totally distant pind

Only option C helps as the rest will probably lead to a no from your parents

on a side note its lovely to see young sikhs really in tune with their parents, 6 years of dating and now they start to think

(p.s sometimes you can allow a girl to get away with this lack of thinking as her last name would change anyway, but what kinda bf do you have that didnt question it? #coconut)

the fact is he also says some sensible things, such as "How do you know who is a mankukh or gurmukh, if you think amrita automatically makes someone something, you are sadly mistaken". I will never say to someone their opinion of sikhi is wrong i will give my opinion freely but i dont think its appropriate for people to be say this is the path and only i know of it!

i took amrit at 10 and it was the best decision I ever made, however what i feel like is that amritdharis in particular are guilty of being to militant calling any view apart from their own manmukh! you may call me liberal but really all i am is accepting we are taught to each other as siblings and i wouldnt talk to any of my brothers or sisters in the way Mal has spoken to the above poster whether he be right or wrong! The above poster has made inferences based on what he knows shouting and calling him a manmukh etc wont change his opinion if anything they will reinforce it

spot on neosingh (again)

we wonder why people leave sikhi in droves and its because of posters such as above, so easy to sling about the manmukh titles like their going out of fashion! I can confidently say i am a manmukh i folllow my mind and desires(althought trying to control them i realise their hold on me is still very strong), but its good to know so many on here are gurmukh/brahmgianis!

"We have a lot of people on this forum who talk big on sikhi, but do not want to commit, and take Amrit, when i was not amritdhari i never came on this site or any other similiar sites. I kept my mouth shut because i thought how can i talk if i can not do it myself !! :no:, its one thing asking for advice/ chit chat etc but questioning core sikhi fundamentals and cant even commit, how these people can talk is unbelievable"

The above quote is unbelievable, you wernt amritdhari before and yet you feel you can come on here and spout that only your opinion and only your impression of sikhi counts. i have been amritdhari for 15 years im 25 now and have been through many more experiences as an amritdhari kid that you cant relate to and you have been through many experiences as a non amritdhari that i cant relate to so you should take a step back and realise that people generally come on this forum for a deeper understanding and not by shouting the loudest will you get your point across, instead treat people like your family and they will drawn to you by your very presence.

the fact is most amritdharis including myself break rehat every day, from not controlling our anger, to giving in to pride/ego/lust, to not doing our panj bania at the right time etc

then you find the ones that do, and instead of making them more peaceful and happy following rehat seems to have turned them into militant,stone cold, robots

what happens if your panj pyare have said something different to mine? whos god then should we believe? at the end of the day the only true guru is bani, everyones interpretation is different and unless you have read sanskrit bani in its original form and really understand the meaning of the angs then i dont think any of us has the presence of mind to be able to say this is wrong this is right. Lets all for once just focus on our own sikhi and give advice like its your brother/sister in the situation

as for the o.p i think (my opinion) its fine to take a job in that situation, earn your living from hard work stay humble and guru ji will see why you made the choices you have!

p.s interesting stats below show that muslims are overrepresented in the prison system 4% of the population but 13.1% of the prison population

(side note sikhs are also overrepresented - on a much smaller scale, Hindus are underrepresented)

Christian 43,176

50.2%

61.3%

Muslim 11,248

13.1%

4.0%

Hindu 456

0.5%

1.5%

Sikh 777

0.9%

0.7%

what i think people find ridiculous is when the muslim community feel they have been slighted they will raise 1000s of people to walk on the house of parliament, or demonstrate peacefully in a town, you even find regular preachers in town and londons speakers corner

however when there own community recognise a problem because the girls being raped are not "their" girls or muslim girls it is brushed under the carpet. im sorry but the absolute lack of empathy by pakistanis for people not off the same origin is ridiculous.

They continue to use the civil liberties afforded to them by this country but when it comes to helping the police "against" there own community they will not help

@mal it really is an easy concept to understand, ive said its better to contribute to the economy then take out of it.do you disagree?

Ive also said that using the "its against my religion to stack meat/alchohol" argument doesnt work when bankers are immorally/unethically (so against sikhi) earning their money (yet that is deemed as acceptable). again do you disagree?

never did i say you cant ask a question, the crying was aimed at the posters above who have turned a simple question into their own meat/no meat agenda

p.s your right im not a "mod" im impressed with your investigative skills in finding that out!

Hope that cleared up you confusion

lets not turn this into yet another can we cant we eat meat

end of the day we live in a capitalist western democracy rather then be unemployed i suggest you contribute to the economy -then maybe you can outweigh the potential disadvantage of touching drink with using the payment to help charity), end of the day we dont tell bankers to stop banking on this forum even when there money is earnt unethically ehmi crying about nothing

if you cant find another job its fine, try not to but its nothing to worry about!

the fact your comparing the two shows the bubble of a world you live in

anyone can post on these forums and if they require help then they should be given it, if you gave a heroin addict the advice go see a doctor thats brilliant but if someone else gave them the advice of seeking help through putting their all in gurbani or mabe a shabad that explained things better to them thats not bad advice

this entire world can be explained by sikhi so why choose to not have bits and only have the bits you feel comfortable with!

@luckysingh99 before stating that some issues are not gurmat to discuss maybe you should open up your mind, you are not a jathedar or such a gurmukh that you can make such sweeping statements

Sikhi is a way of life and as such has an important part to play in everyones life and everyone should take instruction from Waheguru never be afraid to ask your guru a question!

as for the sleeping around bit its all about whether you can accept it or not, if you cant than forget having a relationship, if you can you must make sure to start from a clean slate