GurSa Singh

Out of curiousity, any amritdhari's on this forum actually attending the Olympics or are any rehatwaan Gursikhs participating as contestents...?

It would be shame if no one actually attends after all this hoo haa in the media..

If the girl has postive experiences of her Dad and Brother wearing turbans then she's more likely to be attracted to a boy who has a turban. If her Dad and Brothers are monay, then she's highly likely to be attaracted to a monay boy. If here Dad and Brother wear turbans, but are plonkers, then she'll probably not want to marry a boy who wears a turban.

The issue is deeper than the girls vanity, some of it may be based on a lame collective portrayal of the modern male Sikh image by modern male Sikhs themselves. Saying that, I know a few girls from complete non-Gursikh backgrounds who married Singhs because they admired the inner and outher qualities of the Sikh roop.

This was my Grandads theory who was orginally from East Africa. My Grandfather believed that the beard trimming started in Kenya in the late 1960s, where the then naujwaan started "islamifying" the Sikh identity by shaping their beards. The fad was brought to UK from Kenya in the late 60s/early 70s but kept in the Sikh East African community. At that time the Sikhs from India living in the UK either were monay or full keshdhari (full beard), but by the mid/late 80s many of these keshdharis in UK also started trimming their beards. I suppose as they regularly visited Punjab, they took the fad with them and the result is more of these confused half-breeds.

Just a theory!

Our experience shows this happening repeatedly. If they wanted proper debate, they know who to contact (i.e., Sikh Federation in this case, given that they put out the original Press Release). It just shows Nihal's bad faith when he fails to notify GurSikh organisations, but he always resort to bringing on the plonkers who continually give him the answers he knows will sensationalise the issue exactly as he wants.

Beat them at their own game! We know the tricks so why are we still ineffective?

We know that BBC AN issue their programme listing by at least 9am on the same day for Nihal’s show, if not the previous day. If a dedicated Sikh media watch team is set up then it can ensure strong Gursikh voices are ready to participate in any Sikh related discussion regardless of the short notice and regardless of an official invitation or not. This is an overdue sewa that SCUK must show they are establishing in order to enhance the Sikh media profile, which as we can see is still poor.

The lame excuses we have of our non-participation in defending the Sikh image on the media is now totally unjustifiable. It simply boils down to the non-proactive approach we have all comfortably established over the last 25 years. A Google search of "Sikh" news items over the last 2-3 days clearly showed this as a hot topic, yet the derogatory readers’ comments in the Daily Mail and Telegraph, comparing us to Zulus and Cowboys, have just been ignored and not countered by many individual Sikhs or main Sikh Organisations. If the Jathebhandi's aren't up for it, then we individual Sikhs should be mentally ready to participate in these media debates (no doubt there are more to come on this issue). Otherwise we can sit on our tods and keep watching the incorrect portrayal of Sikhs.

If anyone knows of any other media discussion shows, then at the very least post it on sikhsangat.com. As individuals, we can attempt to start mitigating the misconceptions by participating in the discussions. Snap out of the false sense of security that the "official" jathebhandis' are geared up for the challenge, if they were then they would have developed an effective relationship with the BBC/mainstream media by now.

Missed it...Didn't any Sikh think tanks like Sikh Council UK, Sikh Federation Uk or other reps present themselves in the discussions?

We keep falling flat on our faces when it comes to media representation. We're still a bunch of pendus who lack artculate representation. I would suspect the researchers in BBC AN would ring up the main Sikh bodies in the UK in advance of the show being aired, we need to have a network of reps who are able to express the Sikh perspective every time these shows are aired. This is something that can sit under SCUK's umbrella or the succession wing of the geriatric jathebhandis , but it's still not happening...

So we're still getting out asses kicked in the media! We need a dedicated mediawatch wing set up asap, otherwise we'll just keep looking foolish.

What a joke...What happended to the good old days of humble gurmat focused fund raising!

Why does wee little Glasgow need another Gurdwara for anyway? Haven't they already got an abundance of Jat, Bhatra, Tarkaan, Rajput, Chamar Gurdwaras? What "sub caste" has fallen out with what micro community now?

I suppose we'll soon see a £100 per head champagne fund raising event in high profile venue to raise money for a new Gurdwara... :stupidme: Let's hope not!

Has anyone actually spoken to this Surjit Chowdary, the man who has so proudly displayed his name and number on the bottom of this poster?

So not really investigated properly?

Is it not beadbi to call the police into the guru ka darbar when the granthi is trying to address the sangat to tell them that he was threatened by the commitee?

The local sangat making various allegations need to step up, substantiate and agree what the issue actually is. The claims seem to keep changing and just loose any credibility. If you personally know more details, then contact the Satkaar Campaign directly. Don't expect Sikhs from around the country to blindly gather outside Liverpool Gurdwara to escalate what, at this stage, appears to be a non-issue raised by a small number of locals.

We need to know what exactly the issue is in Liverpool? And please communicate the raw "non masala" version, we've heard a barrage of allegations against this committee but no evidence and all anonymous.

A lot more Sikh professionals are likely to attend if these lobby days are publicised well ahead, many organisations only allow approved leave with a minimum of a months notice, if not more.

This is not the first time a lobby day has just sprung up under short notice and in honesty, wouldn't it be more productive to start attracting the young Sikh professional audience by building up and planning the event. Or is there a tactical reason for the short notices some of these lobby days?

Isn't it time to take advantage of these Policemen getting old and loosing their clout in Punjab as they retire from the force? Can't we now start rounding up witnesses building cases for those who may be more willing to come forward as the same Policemen do not have the positions they had 15-20 years ago. Many of the Police from early 80/90s will now be old or retired and would have lost access to their "special privelges".

In reality individuals/jathas in the panth are split on many viewpoints. Even on this forum most of us will have some strong differing opinions but will also strong opinions which we all agree on.

My personal opinion is currently we are not is a strong position to stand divided, we need to recognise areas of potential and use them to our advantage. I heard Harinder Singh on the BBC programme and he clearly filled a potential articulate gap Sikhs' have not being doing for the last 27 years. This is something we need to desperately capitalise on, no one else is effectively filling that gap in the western media.

Think about this objectively, this forum has been going on for 10 years and we have shared some strong opinions but none of us have stepped up to transferring them to the mainstream media. We even have 2 Sikh TV Channels, yet till now we have no articulate, charismatic, strong English voices to put the Sikh voice of 1984 forward in the mainstream. If someone is stepping up to it, pushing the right buttons, saying the right things to the media than we should at least recognise that. If people wish to counter the individual, then they need to step up to taking on the role that individual seems capable of doing.

27 years of disagreements over individual/jatha viewpoints has left us with a weak voice in the mainstream.

This issue was bought to the attention of the congregation today and the picture is still up there...

Looks like it's no longer on the Gurdwara website. Have you approached Singhs from the Chapel Town Gurdwara to address the issues around this committee?

So as per Ofcom, Sikhs can't use the word "Genocide" to decribe the Delhi 1984 or the dissapearances of Sikhs during the 80s and 90s in Punjab on Sikh Channel!

Someone's truly shafted us! Another feather in the cap of the Hind Sarkar!

But........now that it is revealed how this gurdwara in question is a bhatra gurdwara just watch how nobody here will say anything against them......and, unlike Dudley, no Sikhs will confront them about the blatant beadbi taking place there. Just watch how the whole issue gets quietly swept under the carpet.

Leeds Sangat, wake up, get out of your comfort zones and go sort the antics of this committee out. Stop relying on outsiders to sort out your local issues. There's enough chardi kala Singhs in Leeds, they should be able to do something about this!

Rare picture of the young Jagjit Singh as a student.

New Video from a few years ago :

This is Baba Hari Singh! Wrong description on video.

In all truth, the Sikh Community haven't got a clue who the SCUK are. There were some uncles at D Day who were interpretting the whole screw up on Sangat TV as "Khalistani Extremist Federation" wanting power again, that's why alot of different members of the sangat attended D Day. Don't the jathebhandi's get it yet? Are they going to keep blaming the sangat or Sikh Channel? It was a sign of defiance by the Sikh community who thought they were being dictated to on TV by the same people who they have seen cause problems in our Gurdwaras over the last 30 years. These are the misinterpretations out there, which SCUK or the Feds are not addressing. The problem is the SCUK just look like another rogue group who have their own interests at heart not the community's. It's still not recognised as a name let alone an institute.

SCUK can sit on desks generating strategies all day but they struggling at the implementation stage which means the current model needs working. There are outlets such as 2 Sikh channels, several Sikh radio stations, several Sikh newspapers/publications, 300 plus Gurdwaras, samagams, rehansabhais monthly/annual events which need to be maximised.

Actions speak louder than words and unfortunate to any good work SCUK has already done, the aunties, uncles, kids aren't aware of it. The Midlands Prabhandak stronghold needs to be broken and SCUK need to actively attract Sikhs from the community who don't carry any baggage. Otherwise it's only a matter of time when we have another divided event like this.

These are just my personal opinions. Whoever wishes to crucify me for them is welcome to.

Great to get media coverage, BUT Sky News, Press Association, article above etc all put PROTEST or DEMONSTRATION into the headline and write up. Not sure what BBC said as did not see.

Hope this will not jeopardise the Sikh Council UK meeting today in Rome with the Italian Govt. On Friday the Italian Embassy in London said at the meeting the positive decision would be formally confirmed on Monday after the meeting in Rome. They were also pleased the protest/demonstration organised by the Sikh Channnel had become an awareness event. When they read these articles and see the news coverage will the Italian Govt go ahead with the confirmation today? Could this be seen as a weakness on their part and we may have shot ourselves in the foot with the media coverage!

Hope the Italian Govt do not react in this way as they did speak 'on the record' on Friday, but we have taken a risk. The Sikh Federation (UK) immediately responded to the press coverage yesterday morning to point out to the mainstream media this was being inaccurately reported as a PROTEST or DEMONSTRATION to limit any damage.

Always look on the bright side of life! Have some faith in your sangat, they have sharda, they did ardaas for your meetings and wanted to be part of this sewa too. Believe it or not we're not against you. we're with you too!

Dadu Wala admitted he had meetings with Sukhbir Badal and Sarna. He tried to cover this after by saying it was for "Panthic issues" etc, which is ridiculous!!! Why behind closed doors? Why was this not made public at a date prior to when the sangat questioned him about this?

Is this your desperate attempts to put a spin on something. How many closed door meetings take place all the time? Doesn't the mahan SFUK or SCUK also have closed door meetings? Purataan, you know how politics work. Stop talking to us like we're thick and gullible with your sensational titles

If you have problems with IPD arrange a meeting with them info@panthicdal.com. I'm sick and tired of all this mud slinging pendu politics trying to degrade each other, I'm sure most of the sangat are too. Why don't you have YOUR discussion on "panthic issues" behind closed doors, at this point in time that's the best place for it.

Some of you lot know how to point your onglee! One minute kissing Dadu sahib wale backside and the next minute accusing him of something else. No wonder we're in such a state. Have some consistency with you're hero worshiping. Give me an active Dadu Sahib wale anyday to 1000 useless sofa sitting TV limelight seekers on Sangat TV or Sikh Channel. Do we useless internet soormay think we'll change the world through chugliya?

Purataan, Are these the open views of the Sikh Council Uk?

D Day turnout was around 2500-3000. Not massive but alot larger than I thought after all the confusion and mixed messages that were given. There were a proportional amount of youth but what was really evident was that the turnout was a diverse cross-section of the sangat from kids to women to elders.

The general discussion amongst the youth who gathered was that the leadership has never stood up to being accountable. It was a bit of leadership bashing day and that's unfortunate but not surprising.

The winner in all of this was unfortunatly Bal and the Sikh Channel, they have come across as the Sikh voice of the downtrodden. They cleverly gave stage time to anyone who was willing to go on. The group International Panthi Dal managed to build their profile on the gathering and telecast, indirectly offering the idea of a new leadership which the general sangat think they now need. I think the turnout was London/South England strong, which in a way was good to see as it broke the Midland monolpoly of stage limelight. In a way the exercise has propelled some new personalities and possibility of new jathebhandis formalising. Whether that's good or bad, time will tell!

All in all an uplifiting day. Networks were formed, a lot of interaction and exchange of ideas. When we were doing Ardas at the end, I almost fell over with emotion, it felt unreal puting this all into context. We were standing in Westminister London what was once the most powerful centre in the world. The echos of jaikara and panthic naray in Westminister which once rulled over the Sikh world. Who would have ever thought this would happen one day!

Not speaking on behalf of all the youth. However, it was clear there wasn't much youth there.

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't think any of the main youth jathebandia supported the event or attended it like BOSS, Sikh Youth Project, Young Sikhs, Babbar group, AKJ youth, Taksal youth, Satkaar campaign sewadars, etc etc etc??? Correct me if I'm wrong but in general it looked like a large group of older Singhs and bibiya.

At least its all done and went well.

D Day turnout was around 2500-3000. Not massive but alot larger than I thought after all the confusion and mixed messages that were given. There were a proportional amount of youth but what was really evident was that the turnout was a diverse cross-section of the sangat from kids to women to elders.

The general discussion amongst the youth who gathered was that the leadership has never stood up to being accountable. It was a bit of leadership bashing day and that's unfortunate but not surprising.

The winner in all of this was unfortunatly Bal and the Sikh Channel, they have come across as the Sikh voice of the downtrodden. They cleverly gave stage time to anyone who was willing to go on. The group International Panthi Dal managed to build their profile on the gathering and telecast, indirectly offering the idea of a new leadership which the general sangat think they now need. I think the turnout was London/South England strong, which in a way was good to see as it broke the Midland monolpoly of stage limelight. In a way the exercise has propelled some new personalities and possibility of new jathebhandis formalising. Whether that's good or bad, time will tell!

All in all an uplifiting day. Networks were formed, a lot of interaction and exchange of ideas. When we were doing Ardas at the end, I almost fell over with emotion, it felt unreal puting this all into context. We were standing in Westminister London what was once the most powerful centre in the world. The echos of jaikara and panthic naray in Westminister which once rulled over the Sikh world. Who would have ever thought this would happen one day!

Many Jathebhandis spent the last 25 years disconnecting themselves from the mainstream Sikh Comnunity which has given the impression they don't do anything. Can you really blame the sangat for so easily beleiving that they are "chauder de pukhay" people? Jathebhandis need to raise their profile in the Sikh Community by getting involved in Community projects, Parchaar, dealing promptly with local Sikh issues and showing a professional structured side. Simple quick wins!

At the moment the hot topic in the Sikh living rooms is how useless or petty our leaders are. So, wake up Jathebhandis and build up your panthic profiles in your own community and you will get the "pats on the back". Otherwise keep watching a virtual sangat rebellion on Sikh Channel against the Jathebhandis, because that's what today's D Day is going to end up being.

Someone from Sikh Federation or Sikh Council may want to give us more updates and news about this in this topic...........

There some references to "should" and "apparently" in the original post above.

Before we prematurely jump up and down with joy will the official SFUK or SCUK or whoever wants the credit to take the time out to release this in the form of Professional Communication to the Sikh Coummunity and European Press. Otherwise it's just more hearsay and frankly we're sick of all the half truths being communicated to the sangat on Sangat TV or Sikh Channel!

Some interesting points being raised.

One lesson that is evident in all of this is that the Jathebhandi's need to work on their clout and influence in the mainstream Sikh Community. It's all good an well convincing us at a very late stage the reasons D Day might not be such a good idea or telling us what was taking place in the background with Sikh Channel.

Sikh Council UK and other jathebhandis need to form a very strong influential relationship with the sangat and be bold enough to make/communicate CLEAR panthic decisions from the outset. There is a duty of care and responsibility the Sikh Council and Jathebhandis have over and above what we expect from the likes of Sikh Channel or Sangat TV, if they knew that there was something "kala floating in the daal" then it was in the interest of the SIkh Coummunity to communicate this very early on.

Let's not let the situation get this volatile again