Untouchable

Bhamver Fateh Singh, firstly I did not know if this is your actual name or a name that you like to use hence me questioning your gender. I think you did not entirely understand the point i was trying to make. I am not trying to put Ramgharia in the 'same boat' as Ravidassia - what purpose would that serve?? what would i achieve or prove by doing that?? My point is that there are sects within Sikhi that choose for one or another to go to specific Gudwara's. I understand your point that Ramgharia came about from Misl of The Khalsa Army but ask yourself what is it recognised as today??. Regardless of how it was originated, people ultimately see it as a caste in today's society.

Bhamver Fateh Singh has provided an example of the oppression that Chamar and other low caste people experienced and I agree with what he/she is saying. In this day and age it is not as extreame because of laws and change in social status as people are becoming educated and richer. I also live in Birmingham and i grew up in Lozells, I go to Guru Ravidass Gudwara on union row. When somebody asks me what religion I am I say Ravidassia and I explain what this means. This my identity and we need to create an awareness. The impression I get from sikhs (friends, colleagues) who do not know much about it is that it is some what distant to sikhi. We believe in the Granth Sahib, the teachings of the 11 Guru's aswell BUT we also believe in the teachings of our Guru Ravidass especially around EQUALITY. Guru Ravidass was not Hindu and like Guru Nanak he did not have any religion but GOD. The reality is that people like power and if they can exercise this on others who are weaker (economically, socially) they would to make them selves fell superior.

For people to understand and evaluate any information which does not fit in their normal belief pattern they first must be open minded and non-prejudice. I would like to point out that Ravidassia are not the only people that have their own Gudwara's. People from various sects of Sikhi (e.g. ramgaria, patarai) have their own gudwara's aswell. To be a true Ravidassia means that you are at peace with yourself and the world around you and the foundations of Guru's teachings is equality. It is true that Guru Ravidass was a Chamar and what he done for low caste people is unforgetable. Poor people faced unimaginable levels of oppression in those days and unfortunately so called 'low caste' people still feel it today. I understand that The Guru Granth Sahib regards Guru Ravidass as a Bhagat but as another member said what is the difference?. The question i ask myself is why was he classed as a Bhagat and not a Guru??? Guru Nanak Ji travelled a long way to meet Guru Ravidass - why??? Guru Nanak spent time with him and took Guru Ravidass's Baani which is in the the Granth Sahib today. What did he need to do to qualify as a Guru????? For me I see this another form of Hirarchy and Prejudice. If you you keep treating people different and see them as inferior to you they will not hag around and take it, eventually they will go off and follow their own direction and what they believe in. And they will get stronger, look at the Jews, they were persecuted and look at them now.