Pheena

" Emptiness is perfect, but further perfection is to be attained. Emptiness is perfect, let me repeat it, but there is a perfection yet to be attained. Emptiness is perfect in a negative way. You have renounced - that is negative; you have not loved yet; the positive is missing. Unhappiness and misery are gone, but you are not yet ecstatic. You have attained a silence which is beautiful, but your silence is not yet a fulfillment; it is not an overflowing blissful dance of your inner being.

Kakuan goes beyond Taoism and Buddhism — both end with emptiness, as if the journey were complete. You have reached Everest: cool, collected, calm. Why go back to the marketplace? If your meditation does not become compassionate, then it is concealing your ego even now; it is still selfish. If your meditation does not make you simple and innocent like a child, then it is not true meditation. If you are scared of the world, then the world is still reality for you; till it is not an illusion, you have not arrived at the truth. "

~unknown~

When a Student is ready the Master finds him/her.

So immerse yourself in vairaag and bhagti and the Master will find you.

An Indian sage once said, "God I do not know where you are, but you know exactly where I am, so you come and find me." Don't confuse this with laziness, instead there is great Trust and Bhaavna in the statement, let us build such virtues and you will meet your Teacher, your Master, your Guide.

Let there be NO doubt about it,....'he who seeks, finds'!

Forgive me, but you have not listed the reasons why you want to get married, you listed the reasons why you want a girlfriend.

If you wish to drown, do not torture yourself with shallow water.

~Bulgarian Proverb

Learn swimming

~ Mehtab Singh

hahaha I think you and the quote are in different swimming pools.

If you wish to drown, do not torture yourself with shallow water.

~Bulgarian Proverb

The question isn't that we don't have a way (a healthy way) to rid ourselves from our Sexuality, its that do we really want to?

The million dollar question is, why do we not want to ? :umm:

Because it is easy to sit on the sofa and wait for someone to hand you the remote so you can change the channel than it is to getup and pick it up yourself to change the channel. BUT...If the show is really bad, we might force ourselves to get up, but this show isn't so bad is it, its actually a bit pleasing hence the struggle, Guilt is there fed by society and religion, the body wants it, society says no. What to do! so I think I'd rather just call someone to hand me the remote and then when that remote is handed, the batteries will mysteriously die.

What excuse do we have next?

ਵੇਦਾ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਉਤਮੁ ਸੋ ਸੁਣਹਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਜਿਉ ਬੇਤਾਲਿਆ ॥

The above pankti is usually translated as: "In the Vedas, the ultimate objective is the Naam, the Name of the Lord; but they do not hear this, and they wander around like demons."

The entire pauri is about wasting this precious life in rituals and maya. The translation does not fit in the context or with the rest of Gurbani. Wherever a person wasting his life is mentioned in Gurbani, seeking the guidance of Satguru is recommended. I have come across a better translation by Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha in Hum Hindu Nahin. According to him, the correct way to read this pankti is:

ਵੇਦਾ ਮਹਿ, ਨਾਮੁ ਉਤਮੁ ਸੋ ਸੁਣਹਿ ਨਾਹੀ, ਫਿਰਹਿ ਜਿਉ ਬੇਤਾਲਿਆ ॥

Meaning - ਨਾਮੁ ਉਤਮੁ ਸੋ ਸੁਣਹਿ ਨਾਹੀ, ਵੇਦਾ ਮਹਿ ਬੇਤਾਲਿਆ ਜਿਉ ਫਿਰਹਿ

Those who do not listen to the supreme Naam, wonder about in Vedas and

ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਿਨ ਸਚੁ ਤਜਿਆ ਕੂੜੇ ਲਾਗੇ ਤਿਨੀ ਜਨਮੁ ਜੂਐ ਹਾਰਿਆ ॥੧੯॥

Nanak says, those who abandon the truth (Naam) and cling to falsehood lose their lives in the waste (gamble).

The entire pauri talks about people who appear "nirmal" or pure from outside but they are impure from inside because they are attached to maya, worldly pleasures and wonder about in Vedas. Next pauri talks about being pure inside.

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If anyone insists that Vedas have Naam then please specify which Vedas on which page talks about getting Naam. What is this Naam and how can one obtain it? What is the process? If Vedas give Naam then why aren't they consider Satguru and why were they rejected by Guru Sahib? Why didn't Guru Sahib preach the Naam of Vedas?

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Can you tell us what is Naam and how we can identify that it does really exist in the Vedas to which you find acceptable?

ye3zz we all need dat lust part of uz but den how do we control it all. so we dont end up liek paji???

Who/What are you that Lust is a part of?

What happens when you see a beautiful girl or a handsome man? Are you aware of the reaction that happens in your body or do we blindly allow this urge to develop and manifest itself in our minds.......which then forms itself into actions that we often times regret.

You can't control it like we control the actions of your hands or your feet. We in general don't have such power over the mind or not yet atleast. It sees something and a thought will come rushing in and most often we are swept along with the thought as well without even realizing what is happening to us. Even if for a moment we come out of it for a breath of fresh air, we are sucked back in as the urge of the mind/body is stronger than our resolve to detach ourselves from this train of thoughts. The desire to possess the body of another for our own satisfaction has to be contemplated upon. Why is it that we can't appreciate the beauty of a flower without plucking it from its stem? Why is it that we can't see the beauty of a woman and be thankful to the creator for creating such beauty? Why is it that our mind wishes to posses teh beauty for its selfish desire? These questions we must ask our mind. What is it about the flesh and bones of another that we find so attractive that it fills us with lust? We might have forgone the need to taste the meat of an animal, but only to have it be substituted by the meat of the opposite sex.

The quote I posted spoke of a way that through meditation/Simran, we experience a sense of detachment with the body, that we are not the body, nor the mind or the thought or the desire for lust, or lust itself. When these truths migrates from being a thought in our mind to an realization or a direct experience, the detachment occurs naturally and we free ourselves from the bondage of our physical desire of the opposite sex.

The question isn't that we don't have a way (a healthy way) to rid ourselves from our Sexuality, its that do we really want to?

I wouldn't worry about getting a girl to get married, that you will find, but I'm curious to know why do you think marriage is such an important step in your life?

Lust has not destroyed you, it is the lack of understanding what Lust is, where it comes from, how it arises, where does it go?

Sex - Is it bad or good? What is your answer if yes then you are materialistic and if no then too you are materialistic! Sex is neither good nor bad. It is energy- a divine energy. This is the way God wanted human beings to procreate else human beings could have grown on trees like fruits! Interesting just imagine girls and boys hanging like peaches and apples on trees: just pluck them and bring them home! All those who condemn sex are condemning God. All prophets, avatars- divine incarnation, rishi, seers all were born out of sex. The procedure which has been innovated by creator himself how can that be bad.

When we speak for or against sex just shows we don’t know what it is. Sex is just like any other natural force. A child doesn’t has it as the body grows the chemical and hormonal changes brings this natural attraction towards opposite sex body. As it has come, it should go away naturally one day. But it doesn’t happen because people don’t deal with it naturally. It is suppressed, repressed and when energy is pushed or repressed it changes its form and becomes more aggressive and then you have to just fight with it. And can you win from it, the natural force - Never!

Sex is to be understood and lived with open mind. Sex has been considered as a taboo subject and children specially are kept away from this subject but can the adults really do that? No, children will explore other channels to know about it and from here this tussle begins. Body wants it, society says no! and the more it is hidden the more glorified it becomes. Child grows with the repressed ideology about sex and even one day when he or she goes for sex, person carries immense guilt as if he has done something ugly sinfull. So one falls in it and yet wishes not to go in it, cycle goes on. Sex if experienced with awareness soon leads to transgression of sex.

One who is attached to body can never come out of sex, de attachment towards body and deeper experiences of meditation helps person to naturally come out of obsessive sexual behavior.

Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh! :pray:

Dear Sangat Jee,

I thought it would be best to post on the gupt section due to the nature post and I am unsure whether this is a private matter between myself and Guroo jee.

Since I first ever began doing simran whether during the day or amrithvelaa my whole body and mind goes into an uncomfortable and 'wierd state'. It first begins with a mild headache where there seems to be such a large force pushing onto the front of my brain. Then as I continue my mind makes me believe I am flying through the air and then begin to spin vertically its soo surreal. This problem has never gone away no matter what time I do this or how many times I try and make it stop.

It may be a perculiar thing but I would like to see if any great gursikhs have advice. I have tried numerous solutions by losening my head covering as well as keeping hydrated but nothing.

Any advice would be truly grateful.

Stay in Chardi Kaalaa.

Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh! :vaheguru:

Does this only happen during Simran? Have you just tried to sit down with your eyes closed and do nothing, no Mantar Jap, just sitting silently? Does it still happen even then?

Anyone here with skills in making Logos??

Its for a campsite named. Camp Simran

The winner that is chose will get a free thaapi for a good job and mehtab will make him his infamous Cha.

Seriously, the winner will get a free shirt with their logo on it when we get the shirts made.

I need something unique and hopefully original. Please use the logo on this site as inspiration, but don't copy it exactly.

http://www.saanjh.org/

Fateh.

How does one control themselves from feeling upset because of separation from Vaheguru. Nothing seems to make Daas happy in this world. Everything seems lowly and empty compared to Saach khand. Daas really misses the love from Vaheguru. What can Daas do apart from paath, sangat and simran?

Gurfateh

Your vairaag initself is your Paath, Simran and your Sangat. What more can you do you ask....I say what else is there left to do be done. Relish this state of Vairaag...stir it with your heart, drown your mind in its color. Learn how to do Kirtan and let your Kirtan be an outlet to your calling for your waheguru...

what are your skills? Do you have a degree in something? Have you tried your local charities, some of them do pay. Go to your local Gurudwaras and put up poster for a job?

We are designing a new website for the local gurudwara and are in need of few pictures.

If anyone have any type of pictures of Golaks and of Paalk Sahib, preferably of one where no one is sitting Tabia.

We'd really appreciate any help.

i think the problem is with the word flirting. The word implies there is a level of interest and attraction on a physical level which leads to playful physical contact.

The act being in an innocent manner means there is no 'physical attraction' in the mind when 2 individuals are joking around...that it is just horseplay between one person and the other. The issue is that often such things are misinterpreted as them flirting. That how can a boy and a girl who talk or joke around, or be in physical contact without being physically attracted is preposterous to some.

You will continually find those who reach to the extremes in both ends of the spectrum.

Some say nothing but naam Simran ie: only those who specifically say Waheguru will be saved, others like you've come across feel the complete opposite.

what to do, what to do, but to seek the one who has found the One who we are all seeking. Once s/he is found, never let go for s/he will take you to Him and all doubts will fade, until then pray that even if you to be led astray from the path, s/he'd never leave your side.

Pheena Ji, dont take this to offence, but i dont agree with what you said here:

''If your mind is in doubt, then it is better to remove this doubt by attending the dance and seeing it first hand what it is like.''

So if someone has doubts, or has feelings for someone else, they should give into their feelings and experience what its like? :6

Our mind will always run in a thouasand directions and want to experience pleasures, but we dont just give into them. Every sikh has a daily battle with their minds, to prevent themselves from giving into their mind, following man - mat.

I think you have misunderstood bhen ji. I did not imply to 'indulge' into anything. My 'suggestion' to the original poster was that he should go and experience the event for himself if he still had doubts about whether it is going to be positive for him or not based on what other people have advised.

To experience it, I did not imply that he'd go dance with every girl there. Here is what I suggested he'd do: " Go there with an objective mind to see if you cannot find something good in it, go to learn something about yourself, about your mind. Watch your mind and see how it reacts in the environment, listen to your inner voice and heed its advice as there is nothing greater which can advice you.

Watch the mind and its attractions to those colors and the environment. Remember you are not the Mind, nor the desire which has created this question about going to the dance. Remain conscious and aware of what the Mind is doing. "

To watch the mind and its reaction is done by detaching yourself from the experience of the mind and observing it, looking at what is there as an outsider. It is a method by which you can objectively experience the state of the mind as it sees the colors of the world. The Mind indulges when we allow it to indulge by fueling the desires and the pulls of our minds with our awareness. I suggest that he do the exact opposite, that he don't feed the mind his awareness by observing the mind and its reactions.

The battle with our mind can be fought in various ways. Going to the dance is not going to turn him into a Manmukh, how he acts there will! Sometimes it is necessary to give the mind what it wants and "observe" the mind, being introspective is not ManMat....the Guru himself states, "Man tu Joat Saroop hai Aapnam Mool Pachaan" The Guru does not say believe me that you are the Divine Light, rather Seek to Know it, Experience it, Find it, Search for it.

As the saying goes. Wise men learn from the experience of others, Common man learns from his own experience.

I hope that clarifies what I was trying to say. I don't disagree with what you are saying, but every individual is different and is fronted with various conflicts. The approach to resolve them can and do vary based on the individuals level of understanding and wisdom.

IF you are an Amritdhari girl or boy and you flirt with another member of the opposite sex does that me you are breaking your Amrit???

flirting - innocent or otherwise i mean.

Each individual has their own capacity to implement a set of guidelines for themselves. I would avoid getting into it being right or wrong or whether it breaks Amrit or not. As most will tell you there are 4 major Kurhaits and only those break your Amrit, nothing else. These are few bumps on the road which need to be examined by the individual and what they are trying to achieve by their actions and intentions. There are limits which are either implied or verbally expressed when it comes to behaving with the opposite sex and it depends from one individual to the next. There is a time and place where some things might be acceptable and some not. If two people from the opposite sex are in a friendship, brother/sister relationship then they have their own set of limits which they've set or need to set for themselves where they both feel comfortable. That doesn't mean you sit down with them and write them down, rather these things are often implied through our actions.

Few of you need to take an objective step back on this issue. It is the intention of the Dancer that is of importance, not the Dance itself. God herself has been given the name Nritraaj, this whole creation is his Dance. The Bhagtas dance in the drunkenness of bliss, is that wrong? Baba Bullay Shah danced for his Guru, he dressed as a Kanjree and danced so he could get his Guru to re-accept him as his disciple.

It is the Intentions of the Dancer which can become questionable, not the Dance itself. Here in lie the biggest issue how can you know the intentions of the one dancing? Those those who were watching Baba Bullay shah, to them he was a Kanjree, yet he knew and his Guru knew who he was and the intentions of why he was dancing.

I cannot help but question what is Dancing? What does the word describe? There are thousands of videos on YouTube displaying the Masti of those doing and listening to Kirtan, I see these people swinging from side to side, front to back enjoying Kirtan. Is that not dancing as the body is moving to the rhythm of the vaja and the Tabla. If some of you are indeed against Dancing then you must take a stand on this as well that moving your body to the rhythm of Kirtan is also not Gurmat. But do we not make this an exception or overlook these? why? could it be that we are aware of the intentions??????

The issue from avoidance to becoming Anti-X happens there when the person perpetuating an Anti-X slogan does not understand the real intentions why such things like Dancing were told to be avoided. The veer on first page posted a beautiful Shabad about the Mind dancing and the Guru saves those who's minds are dancing. When this Mind begins to dance, often does it happen that the body will also being to dance. Avoidences are like Exclamation points which give you some warnings that steer into these areas with caution. The Anti-X individuals forgets about avoidence and begins to perpetuate the avoidance of X to an extrememe where the individual who might have begun to dance in his Masti is told to stop, he is told to suffocate his experience to abide by the guidelines that they themselves don't understand why they were put into place. What should've been a guideline becomes a wall. The Bhagtas get to a state where they are free, where their each actions no matter how the world may see it is an expression of their inner Dancing, the expression of the Mind dancing in the bliss of Amrit.

being a senior in a public high school, i have never gone to a high school dance.. and everyone is telling me to but I don't know if I would feel comfortable there or even if I would be allowed. Do you think it is wrong to go to these kinds of things?

It is wrong if you feel you cannot benefit from the environment. If you are unsure, then go and experience what it is like. If your mind is in doubt, then it is better to remove this doubt by attending the dance and seeing it first hand what it is like. Go there with an objective mind to see if you cannot find something good in it, go to learn something about yourself, about your mind. Watch your mind and see how it reacts in the environment, listen to your inner voice and heed its advice as there is nothing greater which can advice you. If your mind is not content from the advice of other, if it is still curious, then get to the bottom of the issue now and close it otherwise you will remain in doubt.

No harm will come to your sikhi if you walk in there with the remembrance of his name in your mind. Take a step and experience life, learn what the attractive colors of the world can give you and most importantly what it cannot. Watch the mind and its attractions to those colors and the environment. Remember you are not the Mind, nor the desire which has created this question about going to the dance. Remain conscious and aware of what the Mind is doing.

i dont denounce the existance of chakaras, but arnt we supposed to forget all of that and just do naam?? this body is a vessel by which we do seva and naam. so y would we concentrate on doing the whole chakra buisness??

i dont agree with the chakra thing. jus agree with naam!! :D

this >>>> has just come to my mind... i dont want to say it, but i am cus its copme to my mind.. the chakra buisness is hindu mut. we should be trying to rinse the mail (dirt) off of our 'slate'/ 'dasam duaar' so we can get to it and start knocking on it.

i suppose this can be translated to.... cleaning the mael is like raising the chakras and stuff... but stilll..

i think its hindu mut thinking about the chakras..

maaf karna.

gurfateh

This is like saying Electricity is Christian and the Theory of Relativity is Jewish.

The Wheel is not Chinese just as Chakras are not Hindu. The discovery was made by the Yogis and the Rishi's who lived in a civilization called Hindus.

Yes it is true, that you don't need to know the details of what Chakras are, but you cannot disregard their influence. First define Naam for me please. Without understanding Naam, how can we conclude that it has not relation to Chakras. The paths of different type of Bhagtis will lead you through different means, but what people forget is that these different paths criss-cross each other at various points.

If you choose the path of Yoga, you will meet at the intersection of Prem Bhagti on your journey. You will have to travel through it. You cannot avoid this Love for yourself and the creation. The intersection of these paths are bound to transform your journey. The path of Love or Simran or Devotional Bhagti is bound to give you the experiences of the Yogis. You cannot avoid them, you can certainly rename them or redefine them, but that does not change the experience.

Was the compassion of Buddha different from the compassion of Guru Gobind Singh?

even if i were to go with the English translations to be completely accurate, one should question themselves...Are we in the likes of Raja Janak before we applying these words to ourselves and begin to save souls of others. Let us save ours first then all other will be saved. Light yourself and others will be lit through your light.

would you be able to marry someone from the same city in the UK?

There are definite concerns about your family being related to hers that you need to find out. Once that is cleared, it becomes an cultural issue of 2 people from the same village marrying each other that you will need to get over. Once that is done, you will need to toughen up when you go back to your pind as the people who live in the village will make a mockery about your marriage. Once you get over that, live your life out in Love.

I know someone in the same situation as you and they have gotten engaged. If it is cleared that there is no direct blood relation between the families, then it is the culture that you have to confront.

Sat sri akal,

However much I try to stop it, I always give in to lust. I always feel guilty afterwards.

How can I stop my mind from wanting this and get rid of the demons?

mod edit: due to adult related content

Sex - Is it bad or good? What is your answer if yes then you are materialistic and if no then too you are materialistic! Sex is neither good nor bad. It is energy- a divine energy. This is the way God wanted human beings to procreate else human beings could have grown on trees like fruits! Interesting just imagine girls and boys hanging like peaches and apples on trees: just pluck them and bring them home! All those who condemn sex are condemning God. All prophets, avatars- divine incarnation, rishi, seers all were born out of sex. The procedure which has been innovated by creator himself how can that be bad.

When we speak for or against sex just shows we don’t know what it is. Sex is just like any other natural force. A child doesn’t has it as the body grows the chemical and hormonal changes brings this natural attraction towards opposite sex body. As it has come, it should go away naturally one day. But it doesn’t happen because people don’t deal with it naturally. It is suppressed, repressed and when energy is pushed or repressed it changes its form and becomes more aggressive and then you have to just fight with it. And can you win from it, the natural force - Never!

Sex is to be understood and lived with open mind. Sex has been considered as a taboo subject and children specially are kept away from this subject but can the adults really do that? No, children will explore other channels to know about it and from here this tussle begins. Body wants it, society says no! and the more it is hidden the more glorified it becomes. Child grows with the repressed ideology about sex and even one day when he or she goes for sex, person carries immense guilt as if he has done something ugly sinfull. So one falls in it and yet wishes not to go in it, cycle goes on. Sex if experienced with awareness soon leads to transgression of sex.

One who is attached to body can never come out of sex, de attachment towards body and deeper experiences of meditation helps person to naturally come out of obsessive sexual behavior.

tea leaf, please wake up and don't forget to wake others when you've awoken.