Jeevan

Dear Apnepart2, I have no wish to get in to a personal argument if you follow my thread I try to keep the debate impersonal without trying to insult individuals. My Punjabi is not that great so please translate the parts you typed up. Thanks Jeevan

Virk30 show Sikhs this website and then let them make up their minds about Islam. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Dear Bilja Singh - I hate to say it but Sikhs are their own worst enemy - during the Anglo Sikh War it was Sikhs who gave the British important information leading to the Panth losing its Kingdom. When Maharaj Ranjit Singh died the heirs, Sikh leaders were squabbling so much that the Sikh Empire disintegrated within a matter of years while they fought amongst themselves in assassinations and civil wars. Leading up to Independence the Sikhs were stated as saying ".. are we now to had over the Harmandir Sahib to the Churas.." this is when Dr. Ambedkar wanted to bring millions and millions over to Sikhi. To this day I do not understand how the Sikhs ended up losing Lahore? In 1984 it would have been better if Indira Gandhi was not assassinated but tried in a court of law for unlawful action against the Sikh people as an act of Genocide. She would have ended up in prison possibly tried under an International Court such as the Hague and Congress would have had to undergo a radical change. This would have been the end of the Nehru Gandhi Dynasty which I detest on many levels - instead we had Rajiv Gandhi in power and unfortunately Rahul or Varun will be in power within a generation - who lost who won I ask you? Whether you like it or not Jason is making some very important observations on Sikhism it has lost it's moral compass - it is too influenced by the Jat mentality and not by the teachings of Sikhism - Jats have become the oppressor of other Sikh classes. The DSGMC rather than stating that they need to restructure, revamp to reach out to the Sikh masses and beyond is playing politics. It is estimated that between 3,000 and 10,000 Sikhs died in Delhi when Indira Gandhi PM was assassinated, it was the very DSGMC that failed to adequately provide security, water, food, shelter, housing, compensation, welfare to the victims and do you know why - unfortunately most of the Delhi Sikhs were from the lower castes! The Sikh Light Infantry drawn from the Ravidassia and Mahzbi classes came out of their barracks during the Delhi riots to help the Sikhs but were ordered back in to the barracks. The Sikhs are sadly no match against a population of a billion Hindus with the full backing of state and machinery behind them. Please don't forget in the end our Great 10th Master was assassinated himself. Whilst I love to hear about our great warriors I want to hear about our great teachers of intellect in Medicine, Social Programmes, Technology, Sport, being a warrior is only a very small part of Sikhi! Did you know Punjab at this very moment is suffering from a decline in the water table - how is being a warrior going to help here?

Dear Bilja Singh, Your comments are extremely offense to law abiding Dalits? May I remind you Sikhism came for the lower castes look at the history of the Sikh Light Infantry, Banda Bahadur army was predominately made up from the lower classes. The Sikh Panth is not growing numerically due to female infanticide and the new generation of Sikhs not having enough children. Sikhism will have to grow by fellow Indians and I mean Hindus coming in to the fold proper - how do you think Sikhism grew in the first place? Bilja Singh - don't you think the Gurus, the Misls got daily verbal abuse from Hindus and Moslems yet they were strong enough to withstand the criticism and bring people over to Sikhi? May I also remind you in what happened in South Africa. Before Apartheid the whites abused the blacks - if you listen and see documentaries now the whites are now on the receiving end of violence, poverty etc. etc. and whites blame themselves for this as they have stated clearly they did not treat blacks fairly when they had the chance. The Dalits in India are progressing and will occupy positions of economic wealth and power it is best that they them come over to Sikhi first - your comments only damage the Sikh cause. I suggest you do some historical reading of Sikhism first. Dear Moderator you need to intervene and issue warnings - I have noticed on these Forums there are not enough Scholars to draw from History to correct facts - how about making me a Moderator, I may not be a Scholar but I can quote from books and won't inflame a situation? I ask you Bilja Singh if you was find a relation of yours had comitted female infanticide how would you deal with this? The future of Sikhism lies with bringing people in to the fold not by street mentality by saying "bring it on"?

The Ravidassia have put some distance between themselves and the Sikhs purely on political grounds. Unfortunately the Sikh Quam is dominated by the Jats and because of this we get a Jat Punjabi mentality in Sikhism with casteism, bhangra music, alcohol abuse, meat eating. It took me many, many years to realise what being a Punjabi meant and what being a Sikh meant. No Sikhs wants to be opressed by a another Sikh who has a superiority complex. Historians, scholars have warned the Sikh Panth time and time again to drop the caste Punjabi mentality. I respect the Sikh Gurus, I respect the Bhagats and it makes no odds to me in calling Bhagat Ravidass a Guru, Guru simply means Teacher. I have many, many books on Sikh history and what amazes me is that many Indians will have reverence for the SGGS and will run part of their lives according to Sikhism but also worship Hindu deities, a contradiction in terms but there you have it? The Satnami Sect fought alongside the Khalsa in the times of Banda Bahadur and to me they are more Sikh then me. Dr Ambedkar so desperately wanted to become a Sikh and being millions of millions of 'untouchables' in to the Panth but was appalled by the practice of castesism. I urge all Sikhs to read the history of Banda Bahadur and Maharaj Ranjit Singh, here you will find a caste less but growing Sikh population without the need for assassinations, excommunications when disagreements occurred. Sikhism will thrive in an Secular Democracy with education for all with a social programme for all. In population terms the Sikh population is dwindling it is concentrated mainly in the Punjab. Please do not make the mistake of Sikhism will not die out as a major religion if the numbers do not grow, look at Zoroastrianism. The SPGC is not solely the answer to Sikhism. The SPGC should be a centre of religion, social work, education an University of sorts it seems to be lacking on many fronts. The West separates Church and State, Sikhism can only thrive in a Secular Democracy, look at the Islamic world world where religion dominates everything - if it wasn't for the oil they would still be goat herding as the number one occupation! Jason please have respect for the Sikh Gurus it is not their fault the SPGC, the Akali Dal have not progressed Sikhism as they should have. For all Sikhs the Ravidassia is part of Sikhism (Sikh Light Infantry, Satnami etc. etc.) have respect for the Ravidassia and they will migrate back towards the Orthodoxy, hate them they will hate you and eke a separate path and Sikhism will shrink as with all religion it is a numbers games. Remember some of the greatest Sikhs came from being Hindus, set the example and other will follow. Long Live The Khalsa!

The SPGC should be commissioning Directors such as Shonali Bose (Amu) to make more Sikh history films.

BBC NEWS MP defends Muslim wedding walkout A government minister has defended his decision to walk out of a Muslim wedding in east London because he was told he must sit apart from his wife. Jim Fitzpatrick, food, farming and environment minister, left a ceremony at London Muslim Centre, Whitechapel. The MP for Poplar and Canning Town told the BBC the segregation showed a degree of intolerance in the East End. But a spokesman for the centre said the segregation was at the request of the couple getting married. Mr Fitzpatrick, whose constituency is home to a large Muslim community, blamed the tough stance on the Islamic Forum of Europe (IFE) - a controversial organisation that calls for Sharia law - which is based in the same building. “ The vast number of my Muslim constituents who've contacted me have expressed sympathy ” Jim Fitzpatrick MP He told the BBC's Today: "This is a very exceptional occasion, it's a new occurrence. "It perhaps demonstrates that there is a degree of intolerance - certainly exclusion rather than inclusion which we are trying to build in the East End." Mr Fitzpatrick added: "Certainly the vast number of my Muslim constituents who've contacted me have expressed sympathy that I was placed in this predicament." Mohammad Shakir, a spokesman for the centre, said: "Segregated weddings have always been popular in the Muslim community - the London Muslim Centre has facilitated them for over five years. "It is part of the attraction for Muslim families so they can celebrate their happy day in a religious atmosphere. "We have always allowed non-Muslim guests to be seated together without segregation, but this is entirely at the discretion of the families who hire the halls." A selection of your comments may be published, displaying your name and location unless you state otherwise in the box below. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/england/london/8201461.stm Published: 2009/08/14 12:35:44 GMT © BBC MMIX

BBC NEWS MP defends Muslim wedding walkout A government minister has defended his decision to walk out of a Muslim wedding in east London because he was told he must sit apart from his wife. Jim Fitzpatrick, food, farming and environment minister, left a ceremony at London Muslim Centre, Whitechapel. The MP for Poplar and Canning Town told the BBC the segregation showed a degree of intolerance in the East End. But a spokesman for the centre said the segregation was at the request of the couple getting married. Mr Fitzpatrick, whose constituency is home to a large Muslim community, blamed the tough stance on the Islamic Forum of Europe (IFE) - a controversial organisation that calls for Sharia law - which is based in the same building. “ The vast number of my Muslim constituents who've contacted me have expressed sympathy ” Jim Fitzpatrick MP He told the BBC's Today: "This is a very exceptional occasion, it's a new occurrence. "It perhaps demonstrates that there is a degree of intolerance - certainly exclusion rather than inclusion which we are trying to build in the East End." Mr Fitzpatrick added: "Certainly the vast number of my Muslim constituents who've contacted me have expressed sympathy that I was placed in this predicament." Mohammad Shakir, a spokesman for the centre, said: "Segregated weddings have always been popular in the Muslim community - the London Muslim Centre has facilitated them for over five years. "It is part of the attraction for Muslim families so they can celebrate their happy day in a religious atmosphere. "We have always allowed non-Muslim guests to be seated together without segregation, but this is entirely at the discretion of the families who hire the halls." A selection of your comments may be published, displaying your name and location unless you state otherwise in the box below. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/england/london/8201461.stm Published: 2009/08/14 12:35:44 GMT © BBC MMIX

Thanks Manni007 - the Khalsa lives on!!!

Dear Babbar Sher, I'm afraid the war started many hundreds of years ago. In 1947 when Pakistan was created other minorities accounted for 25% of the population that figure is down to 1% now! Read the article below and please tell us your perspective but in a respectful manner as I have addressed you with respect as a fellow Sikh. http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8196013.stm?ad=1 BBC NEWS Sectarian violence hits Pakistani town By Aleem Maqbool BBC News, Gorja, Pakistan On a street in the small Punjabi town of Gojra, house after house stands gutted and looted. One home in particular is the focus of attention. The windows and doors are gone, what is left of the furniture lies gnarled inside, and some of the ceilings have collapsed. People are peering into a small bedroom at the back of the building. It is from here that the charred bodies of six members of the Hameed family, from Pakistan's minority Christian community, were recovered. The youngest of the dead was four-year-old Mousa. We found his father, Almass Hameed, 49, in a crowded hospital ward nearby. 'Shocked and crying' "He was such a bright boy. His teachers complained that he was cheeky at times, but nobody could doubt how clever he was. But now he's gone," Mr Hameed said, breaking down. It was like the most horrific movie. They destroyed our lives Almass Hameed He described how an angry Muslim mob came through the area, known here as the Christian Colony. "I think there were thousands," he said. "My elderly father went out to see what was happening and they shot and killed him. We were all shocked and crying. Before we knew it, they were breaking into the house." Mr Hameed explained how he and nine other members of the family hid in the bedroom as the house was over-run. "We could hear them smashing everything and dividing our belongings amongst themselves," he said. "Then they started beating on the door saying they would teach us a lesson and burn us alive." Soon after, a fire was raging through his house. "We just couldn't breathe," he said. "I grabbed my eldest son and managed to get out of the room through the flames, my brother came out with one of my daughters, but the rest were stuck and we had no way of rescuing them." As well as his father and Mousa, Mr Hameed lost his 11 year-old daughter, his wife, a brother, a sister-in-law and her mother. "It was like the most horrific movie. They destroyed our lives." 'Fired shots' Tensions had risen after allegations that Christians in the nearby village of Korrian had torn up and burnt pages of the Koran at a wedding a few days earlier. "They started it," 19-year-old Omar Ali Raza said in Gojra's marketplace. "We Muslims are the victims. We gathered to protest about what they did to the Koran in Korrian and just wanted to walk through their area, but they threw stones at us and fired shots." "Of course it is bad that Christians died," he added. "But they provoked the Muslims here. I don't understand why everyone is on their side." But an elderly Muslim man passing by interrupts. "The responsibility is with the one who actually burns the Koran, not all Christians," he said. "Here, we live together, and there were no problems before this." As it happens, a local police chief, Ahmed Javaid, said he believed the claim that Christians desecrated the Koran was not true in the first place. "Yes, pieces of paper had been cut up to look like money at a Christian wedding, but they were not pages of the Koran," he said. "However, the rumour spread and the issue became politicised." Very soon after the allegations from Korrian surfaced, politicians from several parties held large rallies denouncing Christians in the area, calling for action. These were not just politicians from expressly right-wing Islamist parties. PML-N leaders have visited Gojra in recent days, expressing solidarity with minority communities. But Christians here say they are sceptical. They accuse the party and others of having previously taken advantage of anti-Christian feelings rather than helping to calm things down. 'Rare' violence Senator Pervaiz Rashid, at the headquarters of the Nawaz party, told me it was very serious in its commitment to minority rights. "We acknowledge there were problems in Gojra, and it is an embarrassment," he said. "However, it was an isolated incident and the local president, Qadeer Awan, has now had his party membership suspended." "I do not believe that there are any other local politicians in our party involved in such activities." Violence of this scale against Pakistan's estimated three million strong Christian community may be rare (this is the worst such incident in seven years), but complaints of discrimination are certainly commonplace. The government says it has opened an inquiry into what happened in Gojra, but Asma Jahangir, the chairperson of the Human Rights Commission, is not expecting the type of change she thinks is needed. "For too long the Pakistani state has protected people with extremist views," she said. "It is not just political parties. There are radicalised individuals, and supporters of militant groups within the judiciary, the education system, the bureaucracy and police as well." This was not the vision of Pakistan held by its founder, Muhammad Ali Jinnah. "Minorities, to whichever community they may belong, will be safeguarded. Their religion or faith or beliefs will be secure," he said just weeks before Pakistan's creation in 1947. "They will be, in all respects, the citizens of Pakistan without any distinction of caste or creed." But as Pakistan prepares to mark its independence day, many of its citizens do not see any cause for celebration. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/south_asia/8196013.stm Published: 2009/08/12 00:57:55 GMT © BBC MMIX Dear Babba Sher, When Moslems have killed all Infidels/Kaffir they will then turn on each other! BBC NEWS Pakistanis shot at Somali mosque At least five Pakistanis have been killed in a dawn attack at a mosque in Somalia's semi-autonomous Puntland region, witnesses say. Armed men in masks entered a mosque in Galkayo and ordered six Pakistanis and one Somali outside, they said. The gunmen then opened fire, killing five men and seriously injuring two. Those targeted are said to be preachers from a religious sect. Puntland has been tense recently, but the reason for the latest attack is unclear. The Pakistanis are thought to be missionaries from an Islamic sect called Tabliq who arrived in Galkayo on Tuesday. Warning Correspondents say it is common for groups of foreign preachers to spend several months travelling in Somalia on missionary work. Tabliq is known to be peaceful. Six religious leaders from the sect were killed in the Somali capital, Mogadishu, in 2008, during fighting between Ethiopian troops supporting the government and Islamist militants. In Galkayo, security forces cordoned off the area after the shooting and were conducting house-to-house searches. Somalia has been without an effective central government since 1991 and has recently been riven by fighting between Islamist insurgents and government troops. The security situation in Puntland has been tense after the recent killing of an information minister. Pirates operating off the Somali coast are based in the northern region, but it has seen less violence than the rest of the country. However, a report from International Crisis Group released on Wednesday warned that if the government did not enact reforms, the region could break up violently. It said that friction within the Harti clan had undermined formerly consensual politics in Puntland, meaning that grievances including poverty, poor governance and corruption had not been tackled. Did you witness the attack? If you have any information that you would be willing to share with the BBC News website, please send us your details using the postform below. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/africa/8196740.stm Published: 2009/08/12 10:51:27 GMT © BBC MMIX

BBC NEWS Sectarian violence hits Pakistani town By Aleem Maqbool BBC News, Gorja, Pakistan On a street in the small Punjabi town of Gojra, house after house stands gutted and looted. One home in particular is the focus of attention. The windows and doors are gone, what is left of the furniture lies gnarled inside, and some of the ceilings have collapsed. People are peering into a small bedroom at the back of the building. It is from here that the charred bodies of six members of the Hameed family, from Pakistan's minority Christian community, were recovered. The youngest of the dead was four-year-old Mousa. We found his father, Almass Hameed, 49, in a crowded hospital ward nearby. 'Shocked and crying' "He was such a bright boy. His teachers complained that he was cheeky at times, but nobody could doubt how clever he was. But now he's gone," Mr Hameed said, breaking down. “ It was like the most horrific movie. They destroyed our lives ” Almass Hameed He described how an angry Muslim mob came through the area, known here as the Christian Colony. "I think there were thousands," he said. "My elderly father went out to see what was happening and they shot and killed him. We were all shocked and crying. Before we knew it, they were breaking into the house." Mr Hameed explained how he and nine other members of the family hid in the bedroom as the house was over-run. "We could hear them smashing everything and dividing our belongings amongst themselves," he said. "Then they started beating on the door saying they would teach us a lesson and burn us alive." Soon after, a fire was raging through his house. "We just couldn't breathe," he said. "I grabbed my eldest son and managed to get out of the room through the flames, my brother came out with one of my daughters, but the rest were stuck and we had no way of rescuing them." As well as his father and Mousa, Mr Hameed lost his 11 year-old daughter, his wife, a brother, a sister-in-law and her mother. "It was like the most horrific movie. They destroyed our lives." 'Fired shots' Tensions had risen after allegations that Christians in the nearby village of Korrian had torn up and burnt pages of the Koran at a wedding a few days earlier. "They started it," 19-year-old Omar Ali Raza said in Gojra's marketplace. "We Muslims are the victims. We gathered to protest about what they did to the Koran in Korrian and just wanted to walk through their area, but they threw stones at us and fired shots." "Of course it is bad that Christians died," he added. "But they provoked the Muslims here. I don't understand why everyone is on their side." But an elderly Muslim man passing by interrupts. "The responsibility is with the one who actually burns the Koran, not all Christians," he said. "Here, we live together, and there were no problems before this." As it happens, a local police chief, Ahmed Javaid, said he believed the claim that Christians desecrated the Koran was not true in the first place. "Yes, pieces of paper had been cut up to look like money at a Christian wedding, but they were not pages of the Koran," he said. "However, the rumour spread and the issue became politicised." Very soon after the allegations from Korrian surfaced, politicians from several parties held large rallies denouncing Christians in the area, calling for action. These were not just politicians from expressly right-wing Islamist parties. PML-N leaders have visited Gojra in recent days, expressing solidarity with minority communities. But Christians here say they are sceptical. They accuse the party and others of having previously taken advantage of anti-Christian feelings rather than helping to calm things down. 'Rare' violence Senator Pervaiz Rashid, at the headquarters of the Nawaz party, told me it was very serious in its commitment to minority rights. "We acknowledge there were problems in Gojra, and it is an embarrassment," he said. "However, it was an isolated incident and the local president, Qadeer Awan, has now had his party membership suspended." "I do not believe that there are any other local politicians in our party involved in such activities." Violence of this scale against Pakistan's estimated three million strong Christian community may be rare (this is the worst such incident in seven years), but complaints of discrimination are certainly commonplace. The government says it has opened an inquiry into what happened in Gojra, but Asma Jahangir, the chairperson of the Human Rights Commission, is not expecting the type of change she thinks is needed. "For too long the Pakistani state has protected people with extremist views," she said. "It is not just political parties. There are radicalised individuals, and supporters of militant groups within the judiciary, the education system, the bureaucracy and police as well." This was not the vision of Pakistan held by its founder, Muhammad Ali Jinnah. "Minorities, to whichever community they may belong, will be safeguarded. Their religion or faith or beliefs will be secure," he said just weeks before Pakistan's creation in 1947. "They will be, in all respects, the citizens of Pakistan without any distinction of caste or creed." But as Pakistan prepares to mark its independence day, many of its citizens do not see any cause for celebration. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/south_asia/8196013.stm Published: 2009/08/12 00:57:55 GMT © BBC MMIX

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

If the Sikhs had an idea they would lose lives, land, homes, Gurdwaras etc. for the creation of Pakistan how many would have chosen a different political path many years before? The world at the moment is facing up to extremist Islam this is not just affecting the West like 9/11, 7/7 but places like Somalia, Eygpt, Sudan, Nigeria where central governments are trying to get a grip on their countries and stopping a slide in to civil war. The 20th Century was a battle of democracy over Fascism and Communism, the 21st Century will be a battle between Extreme Islam and the rest of the world!!!

If the Sikhs had an idea they would lose lives, land, homes, Gurdwaras etc. for the creation of Pakistan how many would have chosen a different political path many years before? The world at the moment is facing up to extremist Islam this is not just affecting the West like 9/11, 7/7 but places like Somalia, Eygpt, Sudan, Nigeria where central governments are trying to get a grip on their countries and stopping a slide in to civil war. The 20th Century was a battle of democracy over Fascism and Communism, the 21st Century will be a battle between Extreme Islam and the rest of the world!!!

Sikhs need to lay off Ford Capri, rightly or wrongly he is bringing up an issue that cannot be simply dismissed. If the Sikhs had an idea they would lose lives, land, homes, Gurdwaras etc. for the creation of Pakistan how many would have chosen a different political path many years before? The world at the moment is facing up to extremist Islam this is not just affecting the West like 9/11, 7/7 but places like Somalia, Eygpt, Sudan, Nigeria where central governments are trying to get a grip on their countries and stopping a slide in to civil war. The 20th Century was a battle of democracy over Fascism and Communism, the 21st Century will be a battle between Extreme Islam and the rest of the world!!!

http://casualsunited.webs.com/armchairwarriors.htm

Sikhs need to lay off Ford Capri, rightly or wrongly he is bringing up an issue that cannot be simply dismissed. If the Sikhs had an idea they would lose lives, land, homes, Gurdwaras etc. for the creation of Pakistan how many would have chosen a different political path many years before? The world at the moment is facing up to extremist Islam this is not just affecting the West like 9/11, 7/7 but places like Somalia, Eygpt, Sudan, Nigeria where central governments are trying to get a grip on their countries and stopping a slide in to civil war. The 20th Century was a battle of democracy over Fascism and Communism, the 21st Century will be a battle between Extreme Islam and the rest of the world!!!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6741332.ece Theses pictures tells us a thousand words!

I agree with Ford Capri hit the Moslems where it hurts financially boycot these shops!!! Arent't there enough Morrisons, Sainsbury, Tesco to choose from and plus these British Supermarkets will not try to convert me to Judaism or Christianity.

Honour Killing Fear After Lover's Acid Attack Thursday, July 23 08:08 am SkyNews © Sky News 2009 Police have told a young, married British Muslim woman she is at risk of being murdered in an "honour crime" for having an illicit love affair. Skip related content Related photos / videos Honour Killing Fear After Lover's Acid Attack Her alleged lover is critically ill in hospital after a gang poured sulphuric acid down his throat and stabbed him. The man, a 24-year-old Danish Asian, is now blind, his tongue has been destroyed and he suffered 90% burns. Both live in the Asian community of East London, where their relationship is said to have angered her family for bringing dishonour on them. Scotland Yard has given her an Osman warning, a formal alert that she is in grave danger of being killed. But it is understood she has told police she is not aware of any threat. Officers are assessing how best to protect her. The man was attacked by a masked gang near his home in Leytonstone in the early hours of July 2. A witness, who was too scared to give her name, told Sky News: "I saw four men lashing out and kicking him on the ground. "I shouted and they ran off, then one went back and started on him again. "The poor man got up and ran straight into a tree, then staggered back to his house, tugging at his burning clothes and banging on doors shouting for water." Emergency services found the man wandering around in agony, unable to speak coherently. Firemen eventually hosed him down in the street. Later it was discovered he had been stabbed twice in the back, hit with bricks and had sulphuric acid thrown over him and forced down his throat. Neighbour Paulette Billings said: "I was woken by a man running up and down the street shouting and banging on doors. "I didn't realise what a terrible thing had happened until the next day." The man had recently moved into a bedsit in Mayville Road but his fellow residents said they did not even know his name. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090723/tuk-ho....html?printer=1

My country Britain is at war with the Terrorists in Afghanistan. Putting aside the rights or wrongs of this war young men from this nation are paying the ultimate price in their duty. The Independent newspaper has published this young man's letters to his mum. The letters are heartbreaking but it shows to me a person coming of age ready to face his mortality. I am angry at the politicians for not equipping the soldiers as best as they should be and also for not sending their own kith or kin and instead it seems asking for other 'sons' to make the sacrifice. Anyhow read the letters please from a son to a mother. RIP Cyrus Thatcher - you have made your parents, fellow countrymen proud! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-...ad-1753008.html 'Hello mum, this is going to be hard for you to read ...'[/b] At 19, Rifleman Cyrus Thatcher was one of the youngest victims of the Afghan war. These letters – given to The Independent by his family – reveal the excitement of a teenager sent to fulfil his dream, and his maturity in confronting the possibility that he might not make it home Monday, 20 July 2009 Cyrus Thatcher as a rifleman. He was killed on 2 June 2009 JOHN LAWRENCE In the spring of this year, the 2nd Battalion, The Rifles deployed to Afghanistan. Halfway through the battalion's tour, it has lost nine soldiers, with dozens injured. Of those to have given their lives, four were teenagers. Here Rifleman Cyrus Thatcher, who was 19 when he was killed by an explosion near Gereshk seven weeks ago, tells his own story, through letters home and the last letter he left behind to bid farewell to his family – his mother Helena, father Robin and brothers Zac, 21, and Steely, 17. Following are the words of a proud soldier described by his officers as possessing "a rucksack full of potential", and by his friends as a rascal always cracking jokes and helping to keep morale high. Most of all, they are the words of a young son to his mum, dad and brothers. Terri Judd 27 April 2009 Hello Mum I've just got your bluey [letter] (the 1st one) yea you are right it does get <banned word filter activated> hot, I can't work out wether I'm tanned or just burnt to <banned word filter activated>!! I've spoke to you on the phone so you no what I've been doing. I'm well proud of you loosing all that weight. Suppose you've got a pretty good insentive. We'v had the same <banned word filter activated> maybe a month now. Everyday a Monday out here. You kind of loose track of days. I cant quite work out if its going fast or slow. This pen is <banned word filter activated> its doing my head in!! Iv been thinking of loads of things and places to do, go and see. Me and Elliott are gonna go to Amsterdam after this. THINK WE MAY HAVE DESERVED IT!! It should be a good day (November 5th) [their homecoming parade]. On the 6th we can go Belfast Iv'e got loads of sad things I wanna buy ie Sky+ Big TV. Get the old man to help me rearange my room and help me fix my shelves. Im not the DIY type normally resort to celler tape or blue tack. HA HA HA. Hope everyones safe at home. Complete detox out here – water no drink. So my dance moves might involve a bit of stumbling when I return! Im coming home 2 weeks earlier now so that's kinda good, it might be worth Zac picking me up give me a bit of chill out time so I don't try stab a gobby civvi plus he's a good listener, sumtimes I wonder if he's listening or thinking of sumthing completely irrelivant. Well pass this round the family so they can all admire my extream spelling (infantry eh!). Lots of love to all the nearest and dearest. Love Ya!! Xxxx 1 May 2009 Hey Mum + family Ill always address my letters to you cuz I no your probley the only one who gets to the mail!! You'll have to let me no how quick these are getting you ill keep writing the date?? Everything is good up this way getting hotter, still moving at a million miles per hour (HA HA HA) I think Iv'e stopped burning Im slowly going brown and my hair is getting ridiculous just wait till I come home ill look like a <banned word filter activated> wooky?! I was gonna write to granny + grandad but to be honest with the few spare hours I get Id'e rather write home ey? BTW send my regards to Daphne, Joan, Brian etc. Let em no how Im doing? Every so often we get old people and churches send us little gifts like baby wipes, razors, sweets and stuff so its quite a good bit of moral. Got some really good photos ill have to bring my camera back so we can get that Kosovo collage on the go, to bring back on the 5th of November. If you saw what and where Ive been sleeping you would be shocked!! So pictures will back me up! Unfortunately 3 blokes died 2 days ago in an IED explosion in one of the FOBs [Forward Operating Bases] bout 2 kilometers away – we visited that FOB 2 days before the attack – <banned word filter activated> mental quite scary actually! We'v had a rest day so Im doing a bit of hand washing and fitness! God you'd be so proud Ha! Ha! Ha! We've still had spam, rice, beans and unflavoured noodles every day – promise me actually I promise you if I see spam in the house ill <banned word filter activated> destroy it!! Im getting pretty good at making flat bread and we bout a goat of a local for 200 dollars and we slaughtered it. I got a good video. Its either catch it, kill it, or make it out here or else you go hungry LOL!! The showers are also freezing whilst Im on the subject of moaning?? Id'e best go again BUT ill keep writing when I get the time + ill be home in a couple of months. Love you'zzz all don't worry bout me to much. Theres only 3 things that kill people over hear BULLETS, BOMBS + EGOS so I might go down with a bad case of swollen head!! Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. Love ya xxxxx 12 May 2009 Hello Mother Yesterday was a massive day for moral an american chopper came in yesterday. I got 5 blueys one from Zac, Daphne, I think Sharpie sent one and Dad?? With some pictures that was great. I stared at them for about an hour I cant explain how good it is to get pictures and stuff you get grown men close to tears at the sight of there kid or a good night out its really strange how this place fucks with your head and emotions. A BIG ONE that I NEED you to try do (get started ill help when I get back) is appeal to local charitys, churches, major companys ie Zoo, Cadburys, boots you name it. Write to them and explain my whereabouts and they do send gifts, chocolate, sweets, magazines you name it trust me a lot of the lads parents did it and they've got clothes, the lot. Trust me Red bull, lucazade, fags AND SWEETS are wicked just keep sending them and URGE people to send photos they keep the moral SKY HIGH. I thought Steely and Zacs [poses] in the garden were quality. I can only prove how much a letter or small parcel means by finding time to right back – that's probley the most precious thing I have and Id'e trade hours for a letter. On some much sadder news one of our rifleman died a few days back, we had a parade and a few minutes silence its so strange how many emotions you go through living in these conditions its like everything wants to beat you and rewin your day. Its about not letting it get to you and don't worry nothing <banned word filter activated> gets to me. Well Im off I love you all loads thanks for my parcels and letters. Lots of love xxx 14 May 2009 Hey Mum! Its just gone 10 in the morning here Im on a stag rotation for the next 7 days guarding the FOB. Its 6 hours on 3 hours off so not much sleep. (Im already an hour in). If you could see what Im looking at now you'd be pretty shocked. Its pretty stunning to be honest. I could probley sling shot a stone from where we were last contacted [shot at] from Ha! Ha! Ha! Pretty <banned word filter activated> crazy huh? I shouldn't really tell you this but its safer than on the phone – were leaving this place. Its gonna be a <banned word filter activated> massive operation moving this lot + a lot of helicopter rides. So when I come back after R&R [leave] ill fly to [the main British camp] bastion then out to our new FOB. You don't really do much on stag. Swetting my tits of its gonna hit 50 degrees today. AAAAH <banned word filter activated> my grenade just fell out of my [body armour] – we wont mention that to any higherarcy will we now. I think you said you were going to a weight loss thing a few days ago hope that well? (Just keep going) 37 days ill be home – not that Im counting or anything??? THINK there's a bird coming in today at 13.30 so this bluey will probley arrive with the others – well as always gotta go ill try ring when I get a top-up of minuets on Monday. <banned word filter activated> knows what day it is I thought it was Sunday today. Ha! Ha! Well lots of love to you all! Cyrus Thatcher was killed on 2 June 2009. This is the letter he wrote to be delivered to his family if he died: Hello its me, this is gonna be hard for you to read but I write this knowing every time you thinks shits got to much for you to handle (so don't cry on it MUM!!) you can read this and hopefully it will help you all get through. For a start <banned word filter activated> I got hit!! Now Iv got that out the way I can say the things Iv hopefully made clear, or if I havent this should clear it all up for me. My hole life you'v all been there for me through thick and thin bit like a wedding through good and bad. Without you I believe I wouldn't have made it as far as I have. I died doing what I was born to do I was happy and felt great about myself although the army was sadly the ending of me it was also the making of me so please don't feel any hate toward it. One thing I no I never made clear to you all was I make jokes about my life starting in the Army. That's wrong VERY wrong my life began a LONG time before that (Obviously) but you get what I mean. All the times Iv tried to neglect the family get angry when you try teach me right from wrong wot I mean to say is I only realised that you were trying to help when I joined the army and without YOUR help I would have never had the BALLS, the GRIT and the damn right determination to crack on and do it. If I could have a wish in life it would to be able to say Iv gone and done things many would never try to do. And going to Afghan has fulfilled my dream ie my goal. Yes I am young wich as a parent must brake you heart but you must all somehow find the strength that I found to do something no matter how big the challenge. As Im writing this letter I can see you all crying and mornin my death but if I could have one wish in an "after life" it would be to stop your crying and continueing your dreams (as I did) because if I were watching only that would brake my heart. So dry your tears and put on a brave face for the rest of your friends and family who need you. I want each and everyone of you to forfill a dream and at the end of it look at what you have done (completed) and feel the accomplishment and achievement I did only then will you understand how I felt when I passed away. [To his brothers:] You are both amazing men and will continue to be throughout your lives you both deserve to be happy and fofill all of your dreams. Dad – my idol, my friend, my best friend, my teacher, my coach, everything I ever succeeded in my life I owe to you and maybe a little bit of me! You are a great man and the perfect role model and the past two years of being in the army I noticed that and me and you have been on the best level we have ever been. I thank you for nothing because I no all you have given to me is not there to be thanked for its there because you did it cause you love me and that is my most proudest thing I could ever say. Mum, where do I start with you!! For a start your perfect, your smell, your hugs, the way your life was dedicated to us boys and especially the way you cared each and every step us boys took. I love you, you were the reason I made it as far as I did you were the reason I was loved more than any child I no and that made me feel special. Your all such great individuals and I hope somehow this letter will help you get through this <banned word filter activated> time!! Just remember do NOT mourn my death as hard as this will seem, celebrate a great life that has had its ups and downs. I love you all more than you would ever no and in your own individual ways helped me get through it all. I wish you all the best with your dreams. Remember chin up head down. With love Cyrus xxxx

How the mighty have fallen!!! The ghost of Tom Joad has decided to pay the Brahmins of India a visit!!! WJKK WJKF

Let me guess the problem is with Moslems against the infidels?

Ford Capri makes a very valid point, we as Sikhs should support each other businesses and also be buying ethically sourced goods and services i.e. Free Trade products - not buying from companies that are anti-union etc. I commend Ford Capri in thinking outside the 'box'.