Pehlvan

3 hours ago, genie said:

mix faith Sikh marriage = anti-sikh genocide of future generations.

Simple as that

You've hit the nail on the head. The arguments made about the sanctity of the Anand Karaj are totally valid, but the crux of the argument is whether our community wants to survive or not. If Sikhs want to survive then mixed marriages must be stopped.

It is ironic that the pro mixed-marriage brigade claim to be tolerant but are so full of self-hate/loathing that they can't tolerate their OWN community surviving !!!!

Re-read my posts and try and understand the bigger picture. I've given you proof time and time and again but you don't want to accept because you are an apologist for EDL chavs.

I have watched SIKH AWARENESS SOCIETY, good work by Bhai Mohan Singh Ji....who is not a supporter of the EDL by the way. Again, I expect you to ignore this.

My solution is to make our community strong by instilling family values and bring back some of the culture/values that we have lost. Make ourselves strong enough so that we don't get so desperate that we beg chavs to protect us or (in India) feel we have to align oursleves with right-wing Hindu groups. If we bring back the Sikh spirit of old everything will sort itself out.

I notice how you haven't answered my point about how our ancestors didn't tolerate abuse of their religion, Or, the recent genocide in India that started with the insult of Sikhi in 1978. Again, criticising or disagreeing is different to insulting. Sad to see that people like you are apologists for those who insult our religion. Seeing how you're deliberately blurring the distinction between having a viewpoint and insulting.

No brushing under the carpet here, I am advocating tackling the issues just not the DAFT way you are suggesting. You are brushing the issue under the carpet of racism that has happened against Sikhs AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN. Pathetic.

How about you take your own advice and understand that 'right-wing' can be used for a political party OR a group.

I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say you can insult others religions but not ours. No religion should be insulted .......I disagree with the Brits insulting Christianity as well. I know how I would feel if someone insulted our Gurus....again, weak of you would tolerate this with typical atheist liberal views.

Again, you are so obsessed with Muslims that you have to judge on whether they want something or not. Sad to see you have so much intolerance and hate that you just want to insult someone....learn some manners and treat people as you wish to be treated yourself.

Again, lots of evidence has been provided. The only paranoid nutcase is you.........so desperately scared of Muslims that you advocate joining the EDL !!!

Stop crying and trying to demonise your own community. The point you miss out is that Sikhs tried LOTS of diplomacy before the play was aired to but were not listened to due to the intolerance and hate of those trying to through to demean our faith (people like you).

Oh really? You blabbing on about promiscuity was to do with the topic of honour?

To me it just sounded like you were angry at women for not paying any attention to you

I can't blame them...

Like I said, I didn't expect you to understand honour and what it means to Sikhs. It's your twisted mind that thinks that way.......... I don't try to make women pay attention to me because as a Sikh I look on all other women as my daughter/sister/mother. I don't believe in relationships outside of marriage or try to exploit other people's women. Again, I don't expect someone with gutter chav values like you to be able to comprehend this.

I was talking about HONOUR KILLINGS. You know... a problem that ACTUALLY EXISTS. It is the fault of the Sikh community for its continued silence on the matter and allowing these to take place for so long. When the dam broke and someone finally tackled that taboo subject, what do you EXPECT to happen? Did you expect to love what was being said?

Did you ever consider she made it as controversial as she did JUST SO that horrible subject could never be ignored again? To save lives?

The play was not about Honour Killings but about a rape that happens in a gurdwara. Nice try, AGAIN to justify an attempt to demean your religion without even admitting it was wrong.

Regarding the BNP....are you silly enough to forget that you asked a question and then start crying when you get an answer ?

You want EVIDENCE of Muslims using violence and intimidation on locals?

Enjoy trying to deny that.

They are a tiny, tiny minority of the Muslim community and were arrested....... the law is dealing with it:

http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/51155/arrests-over-muslim-patrol-vigilante-videos-london

It is not a big enough problem to justify Sikhs joining the EDL - going back to my point.

That is correct. They DIDN'T burn the Koran. They never HAVE burned the Koran. If they DID burn the Koran then riots would take place somewhere and non-Muslims would likely DIE.

On the other hand Radical Muslims have burned poppies, flags, Bibles, screamed at returning soldiers. You name it they've done it, and NO Muslims have been killed for it.

So WHICH group is more unhinged?

I wouldn't stand with either - going back to my point. I never said they burnt it but the EDL members in the audience were shouting "Burn it, Burn it !!"......they were up for it alright. Again, don't start crying...my point is to show what sort of people they are and to say that Sikhs shouldn't stand with them....which you keep ignoring.

Here are videos of the EDL supporting Sikh protests trying to get Professor Bullar released.

The EDL were also present at the Sikh protest in Luton in 2012.

So tell me, who is seeking out who here? Who is desperate for assistance? Clearly it's the ordinary White British man.

What's your point ? They are desperate to get Sikhs on their side.

Just as the Kashmiri Hindu's pleaded with Guru Tegh Bahadur to save them from their forced conversions by the Mughals. The EDL have come to asks Sikhs to join them against a common oppressor. You can either pass up that offer and keep crying when Muslims annoy us, or we can nip that problem in the bud forever.

I am being LOGICAL. You are not...

You are comparing the Kashmiri Hindus with the EDL ? Man, you are desperate. The Kashmiri Hindus were being FORCIBILY CONVERTED...are the EDL ? And you're talking about logical...ha ha ! :lol2:

First of all there is no OFFICIAL copy of the Zafarnamah available, everyone agrees it may not have been reproduced perfectly.

Second, WHY would the Guru insult Islam and the average Muslim anyway? His quarrel was with Aurangzeb, who had lied to the Guru specifically. It is not the average Muslim that is to blame, and nobody has ever claimed that to be the case.

This just shows how thoroughly flawed your argument is. If the EDL have a problem with militant Islamists then why not just fight against militant Islamists !!! But they are fighting against a religion, a community. You have completely contradicted yourself AGAIN.

You're forgetting the fact that Guru Gobind himself commanded Banda Singh Bahadur to get revenge for the suffering Sikhs had undergone, STRAIGHT after writing the letter. He never told him to attack all Muslims, that would have been ridiculous.

It's Guru Gobind Singh Ji actually......shows you need to read up on your religion.

With that same thought in mind the EDL also recognises that it is Muslims who are in fact the first victims of Islam, ESPECIALLY the women. In the West Muslims are quite ignorant of what they have been born into.

"With that same thought in mind"...........what are you on about ???? It is not the same thought...Guru Sahib was fighting against Aurangzeb and not all Muslims (in fact, many helped the Sikhs at that time) and the EDL are fighting against the whole Muslim community.

Are you denying that Muhammad married a 6 year old and had sex with her when she was 9? Are you denying the words written in the Koran?

The most prized Muslims sources SAY THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED.

Are you saying that the Muslim sources are 'TYPICAL CHAV LANGUAGE'?

Is that REALLY how you want to go about this? You sound like an Islamophobe...

I don't know much about Muhammad....too busy reading about my own religion. Your language is 'typical Chav language'.

I am simply doing as my Guru says I should and SPEAKING THE TRUTH. Maybe you should try it?

Spreading hate and misinformation more like.

Well there's at least 2 mate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzWJddc9gkA

I DO love making you look silly.

How many Muslims do you get if add one Muslim and one EX Muslim ???? There's a bit of homework for you.

I DO love making you look silly when you claim to have made me look silly but have fallen flat on your face :lol2:

And WHAT exactly do we do about these problems? You have NO ANSWERS WHATSOEVER .

No YOU are a perpetual bottom licker. You are licking Muslim bottoms. You are licking Leftist and Socialist bottoms. THEN you want to hide and cry in the corner until the problems we face go away, but they NEVER EVER will. Without action NOTHING will ever be fixed.

What I PERSONALLY am saying is we should answer the call of those who are suffering because of Islam and NEED HELP (which the EDL have asked for), whether that be the White population or our own fellow Sikhs who have been victims. We need to end that sort of rubbish forever, and we'll never get a better opportunity than this.

You are the desperate bottom licker of chavs who denies the problems in his own community and wants to hate against one community because he has a massive chip on his shoulder. The sort of action you and the EDL are proposing ?...I don't think so.

Yes, we should be proud of them. If only more were capable of that sort of strength...

Too many of us are more than happy to moan and complain and never lift a single finger. Like you for example .

Like you who doesn't want to deal with the problems in his own community. I'm moaning because I say we shouldn't join the EDL ?.....dream on chavvy boy.

And STOP dodging my questions. Tell me WHAT have ever Muslims done for us? WHAT have they done to protect us?

WHAT better ideas do you have to sort out our problems? When you should KNOW that putting pressure on governments is a numbers game.

I look forward to your reply...

I am not advocating protecting Muslims so your point is irrelevant. I am saying Sikhs shouldn't join the EDL (for the hundredth time :angry2:) I have plenty of ideas that I have already mentioned; let's make ourselves stronger.

My faith is not weak, and nor was that of my forefathers....who never tolerated insults to their religion. This, unfortunately, is a recent thing which started with the insulting of Christianity in this country which has cause a lot of problems for the British people. Sad to see that you support it.

The only crybaby is you. You can't take it when someone points the facts about EDL. It's not about being afraid....you asked how the EDL are racist I showed you, and now you can't take it. I'm not worried about anything.

How terribly sad that you tolerate insults to your faith....maybe because you didn't care about it in the first place. You are so obsessed with Muslims that every argument has to come back to them. Get a grip.

More of your weak Strawman arguments... You seriously sound like you're petrified of absolutely nothing and ready to go cry in the corner.

You're the only one crying here. So desperately scared of Muslims that you saying Sikhs should join a right-wing organisation. Am I saying we should join Muslims ???? Who's the petrified one here ? I was just showing you that members of the EDL are racist against us as-well....which is one reason why we shouldn't join them. But, you ignore the point I am making and keep crying. I was just answering your question.

You want to talk about post 9/11 attacks on Sikhs?

Well how about the fact that Americans have NO IDEA what a Sikh even is? How about the fact that Sikhs have done such a crappy job of separating ourselves from Muslims, that the nutters committing these crimes saw a Turban and INSTANTLY thought Muslim.

In case you haven't yet realised...

Sikhs are being used AS A SHIELD by Muslims. Both in the US and in the UK.

Muslims are using the term 'ASIAN' to SHIELD themselves in the West. To obscure the fact that THEY are the root cause of problems and crimes.

We are just playing into their hands, and we should have separated ourselves from their ilk LONG AGO. Sikhs have been the victims of these attacks and died for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. The Wisconsin Gurdwara Shooting was done by a man who had NO IDEA WHO WE EVEN WERE. Are you okay with this?

Did the Muslims ever come out into the street and protest for OUR sake? Hell no. The best we can get is lip service.

That is due to our failure to tell people about who we are and also the media being too politically correct and scared of saying 'Muslim'. Again, pathetic that you would excuse racism against your own people. Was it the case in the UK as-well that they don't know who Sikhs are ? It was racism, plain and simple.

And to spell it out for you (as you seem incapable of understanding), I am trying to show you that the current undercurrent of anger is more than just against Muslims. There are some big issues brewing in the UK and Sikhs shouldn't be used as cannon fodder. Look at the bigger picture.

Disrespect of my religion? Do you not understand the difference between a piece of fiction and ACTUAL REAL LIFE SUFFERING? A theatre play (again which written by a Sikh) does not need to be opposed with violence and death threats under ANY circumstances. Are you saying you advocate such a ridiculous reaction? Over peaceful protest and all the other peaceful (yet powerful) channels?

What I consider TRULY disrespectful is the destruction of an innocent life, of someone being murdered or raped ESPECIALLY if they are a fellow Sikh. THAT is a REAL insult.

I think your values are all messed up mate... And I think the Guru's would agree with me.

Stop crying, no-one was killed or raped over the play. I consider the destruction of a way of life / culture truly disrespectful. Your values are truly messed up......leaving Sikh values and adopting chav values. If you look at our history we have never tolerated disrespect of our religion. In fact the recent struggle from 1978 actually started from this issue. Even the rehatnamey say "Gur Ki Ninda sunai na kaan"...but these would not be in line with your so-called British values so I would expect you to sell out here.

What on EARTH are you talking about now? Promiscuous behaviour? What the hell does that have to do with ANYTHING? ¬_¬

Re-read my post...it's linked to the issue of honour. I don't think you will understand this though....

It doesn't MATTER what these Londoners you say you know think. Either Southall is a welcoming place or it isn't. Are Sikhs going around hassling people and telling them to get out? No? Then that's the end of it.

Again, you are in denial, pretending there are no issues with white people moving out of ethnic areas. They feel like they are being pushed out of all areas. How many Muslims are going around telling people to get out ? Or, is this just something spread by scaremongers ?

The BNP have been trying to get equal rights have they? Since when?

The BNP didn't even allow any non-whites into their organisation until they were forced to relatively recently by the Law. The BNP have nothing good to offer anyone. End of.

No, they have been against Islam and Islamification long before the EDL were.

So the EDL is racist now is it? HOW?

I'm brown and I'm telling you they aren't racist. So convince me how they are, bearing in mind that Islam is an ideology NOT a race. There are Muslims of all different colours but only ONE Islam.

There has never been Koran burning at a demonstration either, that is a ridiculous claim.

I'm not going to keep repeating the same things. When I give you examples you go into denial and scream "petrified, sacred...". They didn't burn the koran.....they were going to. I have seen the video on youtube.

Militant Islam and Islamification are all aspects of Islam (Jihad) and Sharia Law. You would know this if you read the Koran. ALL of it must be tackled as one entity.

This proves you are against a religion, something Sikhs have never been in history. Even after sacrificing his four sons Guru Gobind Singh Ji writes a letter to Aurangzeb (Zafarnama) and talks about how Aurangzeb is a deceiving swine who has disgraced his religion. They did NOT start bashing Islam.

I've already told you that even the EDL Leader himself doesn't support the 'WHO THE EFF IS ALLAH!' chants. That chant is a clear response to the 'GOD IS GREAT' chants constantly used by Islamists and terrorists. I don't support the chants either, but frustrated people need an outlet.

Shows you what sort of people the EDL is made up of they are and why Sikhs shouldn't support them.

Are you telling me that Muhammad WASN'T a pedophile? He was a 50 odd year old man who married a 6 year old and had sex with her when she was 9 and she STILL played with dolls. How is that NOT a pedophile?

No Sikh in history has ever spoken like that about anyone else's religion. Typical chav language.

There are even ex-Muslims at EDL rallies, so you best believe people from all other ethnic backgrounds support them in some capacity. This is nothing to do with desperation, it's about logic finally winning out. Do you have a better idea? I doubt it.

There is ONE Muslim who goes to the EDL rallies.

I am actually arguing the need for action to sort out Sikh issues.

We need to do this as we have BIG problems.

You on the other hand are simply afraid. You are afraid of white people for some strange reason despite how SOFT this country is. You are also afraid of Muslims. You are being a Muslim apologist (using terms like racist) and want to lick bottoms to try to keep a lid on 'community tensions'.

You are so afraid that you want to lick chav bottoms, begging them to fight Muslims for you. Have you become that desperate ? I am not saying we should join Muslims...YOU are saying we should join EDL, so who is the apologist, who is desperate, who is frightened ????? You contradict yourself by saying we should be strong, but you are so petrified that you want to join the EDL !!!

I am hardly a Muslim apologist as I support our community taking action when required (eg. Shere Punjab).......but NOT by being used as pawns by the EDL. I am in favour of our community concentrating on ourselves and tackling our problems OURSELVES without being so scared that we have to join right-wing groups (by doing this we will end up being used and look stupid).

40 Sikh guys attacked a small Muslim owned restaurant in Leicester after it had been found to be linked to grooming activity, after the police and the Muslim community did nothing to prevent it. THERE is your community cohesion RIGHT THERE. Smashed into a billion pieces .

Good for the Sikh guys. Again, not a reason to join the EDL.

Newsflash.

SIKHS HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED TARGETS BY MUSLIMS FOR A VERY LONG TIME. MUSLIMS HAVE NOT SORTED THESE ISSUES OUT.

Why should we protect those who won't do the same for us and only seek to stab us in the back?

I'm not saying we should protect them. We shouldn't join the EDL.

I already said that if someone is insulting you DELIBERATELY you should ignore them or respond in a COOL MINDED manner. Sticks and stones mate, at the end of the day Sikhism is unaffected.

HOW can anyone decide what is an acceptable opinion to have? Where are the lines drawn? You simply cannot put a limit on Free Speech on anything but the most extreme things (like inciting violence).

Sounds like a weak response to me.........a recipe to invite someone to insult you. Sikhism is unaffected but if we are not willing to defend it, then that does not inspire confidence in others of our faith. I think most civilised people can see when the intent is to insult. Insulting a religion in order to provoke a response is VERY extreme.

I'm sorry but it just sounds like you're terrified of the 'British public' (who are so inept it took forever for them to acknowledge their children were being groomed) for reasons that you haven't been able to get across.

I'm struggling to understand how a bunch of random white people groaning whilst watching the News is meant to be WORSE... than Pakistani men grooming children in a sadistic manner. Or worse than ANY of the problems the Islamic community gives the country which I have already highlighted. Indians are affected by all of these problems too, not just the white populace.

WHICH is the more pressing matter?

Seriously WHAT is there to be remotely afraid of from downtrodden white people?

Not terrified at all, but aware of what is happening and who the sort of people are who support the EDL. I'm not saying them disagreeing with Sikhs is worse than grooming; you are not understanding the context of my posts or the point I am making, I was clearly addressing the type of people who are in the EDL and how we need to understand this before desperately jumping onto their bandwagon. How they have been against Sikhs in certain issues as-well. The amount of racism Sikhs have suffered after 9/11. My point was that 1) it is an attack on Islam the religion 2) if they sort out the Muslims, then Sikhs (or any community who wants to be distinct) will be next. There are much more real issues in the UK than the 'Islamification' of Britain........there is no national identity, community spirit has gone, family values have broken down, white people have moved away from ethnic majority areas, multiculturalism has failed, the economy is crumbling.....Brits want their country back. THESE are the problems.

Fact is when it came to the 'Behzti' situation, some Sikhs were giving the author death threats (so she went into hiding) and some were arrested for violence. Of COURSE there was gonna be negativity, can you blame anyone? How is that meant to look to an outsider?

And what was it all for? A goddamn THEATRE PLAY. The actions of some Sikhs made us look pathetic. It made us look like Muslims... offended at EVERY tiny thing, and we SHOULD be better than that. Protests, lawsuits, boycotts and maybe even a call to get her EXCOMMUNICATED from the Sikh community would be far more appropriate.

Maybe she did write the play just for the controversy, or maybe she didn't we don't know. That said you can't deny that 'honour' isn't a topic that has led to a great deal of stupidity in the Sikh community and of course South Asian communities in general. We just RECENTLY learned the story of the old Sikh woman who got her daughter-in-law murdered in India to preserve her families reputation. Problems exists and eventually SOMEONE is going to talk about them, even in ways we don't like.

I don't recall the feeling towards Sikh protests against greedy Gurdwara's holding Interfaith Marriages being all that bad. After the initial shock value wore off, the discussions were quite civil and the logic of WHY they shouldn't take place quite clear.

Sad to see that you view the disrespect of your religion as a 'tiny' thing. What is "better than that", is it tolerating disrespect and letting it get BIGGER AND BIGGER ? Today it was a theatre play, tomorrow it will be a television program, after that a film. If we stayed silent the insults would escalate.

Yes, 'honour' is a topic that has led to a great deal of stupidity in the Sikh community, I totally agree with you. The stupidity of a once proud, dignified people losing their honour and where they would never have tolerated promiscuous behaviour amongst their girls to the situation today where they promote and encourage equality and feminism (anything stupid the man can do, I can do as-well) and then cry that their girls are out of their control !!! The stupidity of honourable people losing such priceless virtues. The stupidity of how we would never have tolerated our children getting married outside the religion to where we invite them to have their marriage inside the Gurdwara and give them a siropa afterwards !!!

With regards to your point about Southall, there are PLENTY of reasons why people who've lived there generations would leave...

They are wealthier and can afford better places to live? Bigger houses?

Jobs? Schools?

They want to move to the country? This is especially true with older people.

And yes, maybe they just want to live with other white people? Are you saying Indians never move out of Muslim dominated areas? It's natural to want to stick with your 'own kind'.

The point is, Southall is still a WELCOMING place for these white people, they aren't being forced out like what happens in these 'Muslim Areas'. In these areas there are people using violence and intimidation to FORCE minorities in the area out. This has happened all across Europe.

Come on..............be real. Having heard the views of white people who left Southall/West London I can assure you the majority of cases was not because they got wealthier and got better jobs..............most of them were working class and not very good academically. The real reason is that they didn't like living amongst Asians and we were accused of the same things that we hear against Muslims today.....they stick to themselves, don't integrate, it doesn't feel like England anymore etc etc. A lot of Britain has 'no-go' areas....generally unemployed, criminal, gangster type youth who have respect for no-one.

I'm glad you agree that everyone should have TRULY equal rights and treatment. Right NOW that is not the case, and who else is trying to fix that aside from the EDL? Nobody.

Well the BNP have been trying for longer than the EDL...............it doesn't mean Sikhs should join them.

Sikhs have a moral duty to help ensure fairness prevails wherever that may be, members of the EDL have come to US for help not the other way around. If Sikhs giving a unified nod to the EDL sorts out everyones problems, then who are we to stand in the way of positive progress? ... FOOLS that's what. Muslims have not earned our protection, and they are the only ones in the country challenging our own.

You're talking about morals and fairness while advocating we support racists ??? I have shown you they are not just against militant Islam or Islamification............they are against Islam. Shouting "who the f**k is the Allah", "Muhammad is a p**do".....in one demonstration they were going to burn the Koran to shouts of "burn it, burn it !!!". Are these the sort of people Sikhs want to be supporting....have we become THAT desperate ???

They have come to us because they need to push us forward in their fight against Muslims....this is OBVIOUS. No community is supporting the EDL at the moment, even though they claim they have blacks, jews, sikhs, hindus supporting them, how many do you see in their protest videos ?

Sikhs are CLEARLY being used and set-up here...there are even videos on youtube claiming that Sikhs are the EDL's allies !!! If Sikhs were to support them it would tarnish our name turning the vast majority of good Muslims (who have had nothing to do with grooming) against us and increase tensions between communities.

This is an issue of the sanctity of marriage. Whether hetrosexual, homosexual or bi-sexual we have all come into this world through hetrosexual marriage. Therefore, to attack this sacred institution is hypocritical and wrong. We have no right to change the very definition of marriage, which is exactly what is being done here.

No-one is saying that Homosexuals should be persecuted or harrassed..........but they have no right to change the definition of marriage. Homosexuality is a perversity of the mind......instead of trying to legitimatize this disease, we need to help people cure it with Gurbani. If you have these type of dirty thoughts, seek help from the Guru to cure yourself.......don't be stubborn and cheeky and expect to have this blessed in a Gurdwara.

O Sikhs, we are facing so many problems because of the weakening of our family values and now we are even considering this nonsense !!! Are we even meeting the average fertility required for a culture to survive of 2 kids per family ???? THESE are the things we need to be talking about not bakwas that is going to take us backwards.

But WHO is denigrating Sikhism anyway? The white man? Hardly! I've never heard/read about a white person saying anything but positive things about Sikhs, talking about how we're all warriors and hard working, really fun people to hang around with and never cause any trouble. I don't see ANY Sikhs disagreeing with this either . You CAN'T pick and choose what opinions you're willing to allow.

Again, you're missing the point. They're not doing it yet, but we have seen the reaction when we raise issues (the Be-Izatee play, mixed marriages in Gurdwaras).........the majority of the British public have been against us. They want the right to do insult any religion; this will include ours and is why we should oppose it.

The play Behzti was WRITTEN BY A SIKH don't forget. Someone in our VERY OWN community wanted to talk about various issues we face and we have to allow that. The only real problem was she set the play in a Gurdwara without any actual given reason for it, and Sikhs were RIGHT TO PEACEFULLY PROTEST about it and not support it. You are also free to call the author a traitor, but violence is out of the question.

The violating of the Gurdwara for cheap publicity by Gurpreet Bhatti was much worse. A Sikh ?.....I think she is more westernised and living by western values than Sikh values. The majority of the British public were with her. We do not face the issues she showed in her play; that was just a pathetic attempt to cause controversy and make her name.

As for Southall. A white person may not want to LIVE there, but would they ever say they feel totally unwelcome? I don't think so. Tommy Robinson has gone on record saying that even though Southall is basically a Sikh town, it's just as friendly as a white area.

Why would white people who have been living in an area for generations move out ? It's not a decision that is taken lightly.

Tommy Robinson has already admitted that classic EDL chants like 'WHO THE EFF IS ALLAH' are probably not the best way to win support, but fact of the matter is Islamists have said and done far worse. Free speech isn't always pretty and nobody said it was, but it is the best way to run the world. The people (no matter who/what they are) in the EDL are ANGRY at the injustice taking place in England, and how their country and future is changing for the worse. PROTESTING with the EDL is the best possible outlet for that anger, far better than random people turning to riots and blind violence like Anders Breivik did in Norway.

The EDL chants are directed against a religion......against ALL Muslims. It shows that this goes beyond just being against Islamists and is why Sikhs should have nothing to do with it. Again, it is inaction by the government that they haven't arrested Islamists making provocative chants.

I disagree, Halal SHOULD be banned.

Muslims had their chance to make it work and they clearly failed us all. Halal should CONTINUE to be banned until they can prove beyond doubt that it will never infringe on the rights of non-Muslims in Britain (95% of the country) ever again.

As a Sikh I will FOREVER be appalled by Halal. As a British person I will FOREVER be appalled by Halal. Halal goes against British views on Animal Welfare, so the time when Halal will be truly acceptable is probably never.

The reason people are being force-fed Halal is not because of Muslims, it is because of retailers who put profit and business efficiency before everything else. Separating Halal and non-Halal is time consuming for them, it's easier to just have Halal. The government needs to make them separate the two and give people the right NOT to eat Halal.

The whole meat industry is cruel and exploits animals living in horrible, cramped conditions before killing them.

The 'Azaan', the Muslim call to prayer should ALSO be banned. Just like it was banned in the Sikh Empire.

WHY should anyone have to hear for miles around AND in their homes, some guy on a loudspeaker chant about how amazing Islam and Muhammad is? How much you suck for being an unbeliever?

WHAT would happen if a Gurdwara started using loudspeakers to blast to the world how amazing the Guru's, the Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Waheguru are? Would Muslims appreciate that? Would anyone actually WANT that?

WHAT would happen if someone was to use loudspeakers at their house and blast to the world how much better they are than everyone else? They'd be arrested .

If this is happening then it needs to stop.

"NOW is the time for the country to decide. Do we want Britain-istan. Or do we want Great Britain? YOU CANNOT HAVE BOTH. We either have to give Muslims everything they want, or 'limit' them by giving them the SAME rights as the other 95% of this country. There is no halfway point."

Yes, everyone should have the same rights under the law.

If you want to march alongside chavs shouting "muhammad is a p***o", "who the f**k is Allah" and do a disservice to Sikhi in the process than that is up to you. Slogans like this clearly show that EDL are not just against militant Islam but Islam itself. This is going to turn moderate Muslims away and polarise people more. They also want the right to insult religion....this will include Sikhi. We saw what happened with the Be-Izatee play and how the majority of the British public was against us for not wanting our religion to made a mockery of. As Sikhs we should be against ANY religion or prophet being insulted. Disagreeing with a religion is OK, but insulting it is not.....there is a difference. We don't like it when our religion is insulted; let's not insult other people's religion.

Some of the points they raise are valid and it is due to weak governments and weak community leaders that these have not been addressed. Halal meat is a big one.......it should clearly be labelled. Let people have the choice whether to have halal or non-halal meat. Shere Punjab shouldn't have been dismissed by members of our community when they were highlighting the cases of grooming gangs. They did make a lot of sacrifices for our community and should be given respect. At last the police are putting evil scumbag perverts behind bars. As has been said, there is a higher percentage of them amongst the Pakistani community....this is a problem they need to address. The hate preachers who are against this country should be deported....the government needs to be harder.

Regarding EDL members being racist or not, or coming for us afterwards.......have we forgotten the amount of racism we have suffered since 9/11 ? Was this really a case of mistaken identity.......or a chance for racism to rear it's ugly head ? Look at the EDL members........those Sikhs who live in the UK know the reaction you would get if you met one of these on the street. Oh, but it's a case of mistaken identity, they don't know the difference between us and Muslims, I hear you say. Really ? How come no orthodox Jew with an uncut beard is never mistaken for being a Muslim ???? How come no black people are ever mistaken for being Muslim ? This is racism and we need to be fighting against it rather than supporting it. We are never going to be acceptable to them until we have totally assimilated, ie. lost our own heritage and culture. They are desperate now and have their hands full with Muslims; this is why they are trying to push us forward to fight against Muslims.

We have to look at the bigger picture and see the issues that have arisen in this country. Multiculturalism has failed.....how many white English people do you know living in Sikh dominated areas like Southall / West London ? They have ALL moved out....why ???? They were saying many of the same things about us that are now being said about Muslims. If you preserve your own culture then you are not integrating with the host community, if you lose your culture then you are a traitor to your own heritage. The economic problems have caused huge anger in the working classes, they are sick of mass immigration and opinion is going towards the right.

They need Sikhs on their side to use us as cannon fodder against Muslims. Also it gives them credibility and helps them show they are not racist. Unfortunately some Sikhs are getting really desperate and feel we should align ourselves with them.

When will we learn that people are only going to like you when they need to use you or you are living exactly as they say ? The British liked us during the first world war when we gave thousands of sacrifices and only a year later (1919) the Jallianwala Bagh massacre happened. Hindus loved us pre-1947 but then we all know what happened after that.

Sikhs should be strong enough to sort out our own problems.