Pehlvan
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We have to be careful not to be used as pawns here. EDL need public support and they are bending over backwards to show they are not racist. However, those of you that wear dastaar and have a beard know how much racism we have suffered since 9/11. How many of you haven't had dirty looks, people laughing at you as you go by, someone calling you 'Bin Laden' ? Is this really a case of mistaken identity or is it a new form of racism directed at Muslims and any ethnic minority that wear outwards religious symbols ?
Yes, they might welcome you at the demo for the publicity, but you all KNOW the reaction you would get if you met them on the street. At best you might get a dirty look or them calling you 'Bin Laden', at worst it could escalate to more than that.
I understand that many of our brothers have had bad experiences with Muslims, but this is not the way to deal with it. We need to concentrate on building our own community and dealing robustly with any problems we have ourselves. If there are Pakistani grooming gangs exploiting our girls and the law is not doing anything about it we need to deal with them ourselves in the traditional Khalsa way :cool2:. Bring back groups like Shere Punjab.
EDL are not just against militant Muslims they are against Islam. If they are not against Islam, why do they routinely insult their prophet ? Is this right ? There is a video on youtube of an EDL meeting where Tommy is holding a copy of the koran and the EDL are shouting "burn it, burn it, burn it". They have said that they want the right to insult religion....this will include ours.
How do they think they will react to (to mention a few things...........there are many more) Sikh views on gay marriage, our outrage if someone insults our Guru Sahibaan, our brothers protesting against mixed marriages in gurdwaras, our reverence for our shaheeds who the Indian governments considers terrorists....will they be on our side or the other side ? Khalsa Ji, we are distinct and have our own set of values and principles.
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Sikhs should neither endorse EDL or protest again them. Sikhs should be silent witness of whats happening in UK. Edl may have started as reaction of Islam fascism but they seem to have ulterior motives for white english country /same ideology of nazi KKK. They may be are much needed at this point to stop fight islamic fascism..iron can cut another iron. Sikhs should be neutral...I am thinking in overtime sikhs themselves need a group to preach both edl and islamic fascist group its own "sikhs own make peace not war league" to win public opinion or exceed more credibility among masses..this is where gurbani tuk comes in, apply to all situations-
Hindu anna turku kana dhohan tey giani siyana. ||
This. To those who think that this is just about Muslims....how much racism have Sikhs suffered since 9/11 ? And before you say 'it was because they thought we are Muslims', is this really the case ? Do Londoners not know who Sikhs are ? Speak to Sikhs who went on the underground after 9/11 and find out how they would get on the tube and everyone would stare at them. Did ordinary Brits going to work in London (who have all studied RE) not know who Sikhs are ? This is racism, and after Muslims it will be our turn.
We have had problems with a minority of the Muslim community but we need to deal with these ourselves rather than jumping on the EDL bandwagon. Pakistani grooming gangs should be dealt with by the law, otherwise vigilante groups should be formed to deal with them.
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Her father was a proper Sikh who was killed by Hindus in India. After he died she and her mother came to England and managed to get citizenship on the back of the fact that their lives as Sikhs were not safe in Hindu India. As soon as mother and daughter got British citizenship they showed their true colours. So you , me everybody.....absolutely everybody...has been taken for a ride by Hard Kaur. We, the British Sikhs.....the British govt....and now the Indians. The woman is besharm personified.
And....as she can never be regarded as a British Sikh or even Punjabi because she isn't in any sense of the word, she is actually a good example of the state of Punjabis in India these days. Their morals and ethics are nothing like the established Sikhs of the UK, Canada or America. Like I said before, lets hope this FIR arrest request is carried through.
In that case I apologise if I said anything wrong about her father. I assumed it would be a case of a weak father which is so often the case when girls go off the rails.
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She is 50% responsible for her filthy behavior and thoughts the other 50% of the fault lays at the feet of her mother who raised a dirty whoore and not a kaur
Well said. I would add that it is also the fault of her father who didn't give her some hard slaps to the face when she needed it. Probably a liberal leftie dedicated to the evil ideologies of feminism and so-called equality.
If asked about her disgraceful behaviour, what do you think Hard <banned word filter activated> is going to say? She is going to say how she believes in equality and anything stupid a man can do a woman can do as-well. We have created these monsters by leaving our old culture and values and adopting a gutter culture......and this is the result.
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Early life of a human, did we marry? Was there even a concept of marriage?
Ok, lets look at this from a pure Sikh view by observing the Anand Karaj, I have read the 4 Laava, not once it mentions about a love between a Man and a Women.
It goes even deeper than the physical appearance, 4 Laava talks about the connection of two souls and surrendering yourself to Aakaal.
Then this comes back to our leaders who run the Sikh bodies, all village folk. Majority of decisions that are made by them are on cultural base and this will have an impact on their interpretation of the scriptures.
Of course there would have been marriage.....without it what would be the ethical, moral and disciplined framework for human relationships ? Without it there is no difference between us and animals.
Throughout gurbani the metaphor of us being the wives of the husband Vahiguru is used. Has Guru sahib used the metaphor of a gay/lesbian relationship ? Why not ? Honest reflection is required rather than rebellious dissent.
Opposition to gay marriage is not due to the jathedars, but is due to an understanding of the SIkh view of marriage and how it has been practiced. Please answer this - why did the Gurus not allow gay marriages ? Why has no great Gursikh in history been gay ? You keep accusing other of having cultural bias, but do not realise that your own opinions are biased by modern day liberal, anti-family culture. It is not a neutral position even though this culture does not have an official name.
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Everyone please remember that we are commemorating a holocaust. This is not a chance to have a laugh or pop into Costa and have a hot chocolate while watching the march go by. We need to be serious if we want people to take us seriously.
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This attempt to change the meaning of marriage comes from people who are uneducated as to the benefits of marriage and it's necessity for the survival of the human race. Quite hypocritical really, seeing as none of us would be here today enjoying Vaheguru's wonderful creation if it was not for marriage. So, to attack and undermine it is uneducated, pathetic and a phobia in itself.
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It is a complete contradiction to claim to have a reverence for marriage and then attempt to change it's very definition. Gurbani does not prescribe a list of dos and don'ts for every possible action. It does, however, talk about the five vices and the dirt that has accumulated on our minds. Honest reflection is needed on Gurbani rather than arrogantly asserting our own way. It is very intolerant to try to change the maryada of the gurdwara rather than accepting our own mistakes and trying to correct them.
As has been mentioned, all the Gurus, Bhagats, Gursikhs in history believed in the marriage of a man and a woman.....there is not one example to the contrary. This debate has only come up now because the west is now on the verge of accepting it. Those who are for gay marriages are actually following this modern-day liberal culture....hardly a view free from cultural bias. It is a culture that encourages selfishness and is totally anti-family, seeking to undermine marriage at every opportunity. All it talks about is 'my rights'.....but you never hear about 'my responsibilities'.
If we want the Panth to flourish, we need to bring strong family values back. Advocating gay marriage in Gurdwaras is irresponsible, absolutely wrong and should be opposed by every right minded Sikh.
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This is the only hope that this poor woman has of getting any justice, after seeing her relatives killed before her eyes. Whether the fascist Congress government pays attention boils down to one thing: will it cause them so much embarrassment that they HAVE to do something ? This is why it is important that anything to do with Delhi 1984 gets as much media coverage as possible.
They will only do something if backed into a corner and when they have no other choice. It will not be because they suddenly feel the pain of the widows and realise that what they did was wrong.
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The good thing about kindle is that it is like natural paper - less glare on the eyes. Has anyone used this for Sikhi related PDFs ? ie. Mahan Kosh etc
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It is like Sant Ji used to say: "When it comes to taking the dastaar off the Sikh's heads, all the right-wing Hindus are standing on one platform - they are together".
It is our people who voted this dusht party into the Punjab government........yes, OUR PEOPLE. Whether it is BJP or Congress, they are holocaust deniers and they will only like us when we have given up our Sikhi (like Prakash Kumar Badal and co).
All pro-Panthic/Khalistan groups need to get together and create a political force. We might not win but it is better than voting in these right-wing fascists and then begging them for justice.
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He was never made Jathedar by the Khalsa Panth, he was hand picked by Badal because he knew he would stay quiet on Panthic issues and faithfully serve the interests of Badal Dal.
His silence has been deafening and now we are seeing exactly why....his son and daughter in law have got positions in SAD while the Panthic issues are standing still.
Next time he comes abroad, instead of giving him a siropa for selling out his nation, he needs to be questioned firmly.
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..........starting to reap the benefits of giving the biggest traitor of Sikhs in recent history the 'fakkhar-e-kaum' award and also for staying silent over the inaction over Jaspal Singh's shaheedi. A blatant conflict of interest.
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20130506/punjab.htm#8
ZP POLL
ZP Poll: Akal Takht chief’s daughter-in-law in fray
Archit Watts
Tribune News ServiceMuktsar, May 5
The daughter-in-law of Akal Takht chief, Jathedar Giani Gurbachan Singh, will contest the Zila Parishad poll on the SAD ticket from Harike Kalan in Muktsar district.Lakhvir Kaur, 35, wife of the Jathedar’s elder son, Manjinder Singh Bittu, will file her nomination papers at the Sub-Divisinal Magistrate’s (SDM) office here tomorrow.
Talking to The Tribune, Manjinder Singh, sarpanch of Chak Baja Marar village and chief of SAD’s Muktsar circle (rural), said the Harike Kalan zone, comprising 26 villages, was reserved for women.
The Congress has yet to decide on a candidate against Lakhvir Kaur. Sources in the Congress said the party was planning to field somebody from a high-profile family to give her a tough fight.
Lakhvir Kaur said: “I belong to a simple family of Balochkera village in Lambi. My father retired as Inspector with Punjab Roadways. Though politics is not in my blood, I have strong desire to serve the people. I have learnt the basics of politics from mr husband.”
Lakhvir Kaur said she would address a gathering at a private resort near the District Administrative Complex tomorrow and thereafter file her papers.
The SAD has fielded Malout legislator Harpreet Singh’s wife Avneet Kaur from Malout village zone.
Gurcharan Singh, chairman, Market Committee, Malout, Basant Singh Kang and a large number of Akali leaders offered a siropa to Avneet Kaur and announced her candidature today.
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Good work from SFJ as usual. We also need to identify those dhust who actually did the murdering and raping in Delhi...those who were actually on the ground. Sikhs of Delhi must know who they are as many of them were from the area. As Birmingham Singh said, there are unpublished photos and these could be used to identify these scum. These photos should be used in 'wanted' posters and put around Delhi with rewards for identifying the culprits.
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To add to the above. The main difference is that BJP supports the June 1984 ghalugara but not the Delhi one. They criticise Congress for Delhi 1984 and Congress criticise them for Gujarat 2002. They are both the same....genocide of minorities is acceptable to both of them.
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The reason is that it weakens their main political foe - Congress. And guess who comes and mops up the votes that Congress will lose ? This is a good idea for them as it is a constant reminder of what Congress did in 1984. Don't think it is because they have sympathy with the Panth or want justice.....it is a stick which they can beat Congress with. Even BJP who hate Sikhs keep bringing up Delhi 1984....it is more because they hate Congress than anything else.
It is good that the memorial is being built but we need to understand WHY they are doing it.
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To echo what Jonny101 said. It is absolutely daft to think that Sikhs who have mixed marriages will somehow find a love for sikhi and bring their kids up as Gursikhs. The fact that they have had relationships outside of marriage and dragged their parents names through the mud in the process shows that they never cared for Sikhi in the first place. We can see the results around us.....how many children of mixed marriages do you see who are into Sikhi ? They are far away from the religion, language, culture, everything. This is obvious to anyone not wearing rose-tinted barmy PC glasses.
We all know that in these cases it is a last minute grasp by the parents at retaining any sort of izzat....have the
Anand karaj at the gurdwara and pretend that everything is OK. The damage this does to Sikhi is huge. It sends the signal that this is acceptable.....which according to the Sikh Rehat Maryada it is not. Our young generation see this happening and think it is OK to date and have relationships outside of marriage.
It is bad when boys do it and even worse when girls do it. This would never have been tolerated when we had respect and dignity
and it is shameful that today we are talking about accepting this in the gurdwara.
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I am absolutely in love with keertan by Prof Paramjot Singh Ji. Audios are available on audio section on www.gurmatveechar.com under 'keertan' and then 'Prof paramjot singh'. I just wanted to ask can anyone share any information on Prof Ji, such as where they are based, their background etc? A photo or video would be nice too! Thank you.
from http://www.gurmatsangeetproject.com/Pages/ParamjotSingh.asp
(There are some recordings there also)
"Born in 1947, Prof. Paramjot Singh Ji is a wonderful kirtaniya, who was closely associated with Bhai Sahib Samund Singh Ji. He is also the custodian of the Punjab and Sind Bank Devotional Music Archives in Jalandhar, which contains many invaluabel recordings of old school Ragis such as Bhai Sahib Samund Singh Ji. Prof. Paramjot Singh Ji obtained his early Talim in Gurmat Sangeet from his father Gyani Inder Singh Ji. Subsequently he was a studen of Shri Des Raj Ji. Professor Paramjot Singh Ji also had the good fortune of absorbing Bhai Sahib Samund Singh Ji's gayki, which he has continued to propogate under the aegis of the Swar Samund Academy that he established."
a nice rendition in Raag Vadhans from the 1991 Adutti Gurmat Sangeet Samellan:
There are more recordings of Adutti Gurmat Sangeet Sammellan here (Prof Ji regularly attends these):
http://www.keertan.org/andromeda.php?q=f&f=%2FGurmat+Sangeet%2FAdutti+Gurmat+Sangeet+Sammelan
Some videos of Prof Ji on youtube (keertan and workshops at Jawaddi Kalan):
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Prof+Paramjot+Singh
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All it means is that the product is suitable for Muslims to eat, ie. it doesn't have alcohol or pork. It doesn't mean that it contains halal meat or that it has had some Islamic ritual performed over it. Don't worry !
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He knows that the lie detector test will never happen. Sikhs have absolutely no faith in getting justice in India which is why no-one became witnesses. The ones who did were either bought out or threatened and forced to change their story.
Tyler is confident that the Congress will get him out of any sticky situation. If he were to get convicted he could open a can of worms and tell how the facist Gandhi family was complicit in the genocide.
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They pleaded with the President to stay the hanging because of the strength of opinion against it.....it could have disturbed the peace in Punjab. They gave this as the reason. Even the Congress and the daughters and grandson of Beanta said the hanging should be stayed.
We should not be fooled into thinking that they did it out of sympathy with the Panth. They could have raised a resolution in the Punjab assembly.....the Tamil Nadu government did a similar thing for the killers of Rajiv Gandhi. Badal was asked about the resolution but said there was no need for it. He NEVER stands up for Sikhs.
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I now feel that Badal is more confident in making such decisions. He has SGPC and Akal Takht in the pocket.
Who is the voice for justice? It seems only the likes of sardar simranjit singh mann, bhai amrik singh ajnala, bhai baljit singh daduwal and few others, but they do not have the numbers or support. If they do raise voice then they are quickly rounded up by the Punjab Police which now headed by the notorious Sumedh Saini.
Badal can give tickets to the likes of Azhar Alam and make Sumedh Saini DGP with little opposition. This is why I personally am against Sant Samaj and other Sants/Organisations/Sikhs joining with Badal.
The only way to stop this thug in his his tracks is to create a united front. The Sikh Panth need to stand together against Badal Sarkar and Indian Sarkar.
It is time the Jathedar Makkar and Akal Takht Jathedar finally stand up to Badal and the the Sant Samaj should at least make some sort of statement.
Daas does not like writing against fellow Gursikhs but at the same time daas can not stay silent. We should definitely not take up arms but use all peaceful means to pressure on Badal and Indian Sarkaar. Now is not the time to use shasters (weapons) but peaceful weapons - i.e. protests, strikes, creating awareness.
Satguru Mehar Karan! Khalsa Panth Nuu Chardi Kala Baksho! Khalsa Raaj Baksho!
Absolutely. Siding with Badal was a foolish mistake, and the silence of those who did so is now deafening. Those with foresight and common sense knew that it was obvious nothing would come of it, at the time they were given daft, sloppy responses such as "can you see in the future ?", "good things will come out of it", "let's see what happens", blah, blah, blah.
We are slaves, people, and a united, peaceful movement for Khalistan needs to be on the lips of every Sikh if we are to salvage anything.
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If anyone had any doubts that Gaddar-Eh-Kaum was behind this banning, hear it straight from the snake's mouth:
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Edl Holding Demo At Downing Street This Bank Holiday; Is Bhullar Sahibs Vigil Still There?
in POLITICS | LIFESTYLE
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We need to be very careful here....they are clearly trying to get Sikhs on their side. "We need to do more together", "We need to stand together", then chanting "Sikh,Sikh,Sikh" so we get happy. They have to make it look like they are not against ethnic miniorities.
A lot of the anger amongst working class Brits is due to the recession and the huge amount of immigrants coming here. The massive support for UKIP is proof they don't want any more immigrants here; we are seeing the rise of the right-wing.
To those who still think that EDL is not against Islam please see the videos of their protests on youtube where they routinely shout disgusting things such as "Who the f**k is Allah", "Muhammad is a p**do". As Sikhs do we want to march alongside these sort of people ? Is this what our ancestors would have done ? British people generally are anti-religion, we have seen it with Sikh issues where they have been completely against us (the be-izati play, mixed marriages etc). Today it is Muslims, tomorrow it will be us.
Singho, let's just keep quiet on this matter and concentrate on sorting out the problems we have in our own community. No other community is supporting them; I don't know why our people have jumped on this bandwagon.