Pehlvan

It was only a year ago and we were told that things were going to change now that the 'panthic' sarkar had been re elected. Now we see the result.....never mind fighting against the injustices that were done to us, we are not even allowed to talk about them. And, as usual, Gaddar-eh-kaum is firmly in the camp of the anti-sikhs.

Wake up people, we are well and truly slaves in India and we shouldn't be foolish enough to trust Badal.

The film has been banned by the Punjab (Badal) government. Gaddar-Eh-Kaum strikes again !!! But we are still stupid enough to say that it is a Panthic sarkar in power....when will we learn ????

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20130405/punjab.htm#18

Badal govt bans ‘Sadda Haq’
Tribune News Service

Chandigarh, April 4
The Punjab Government today imposed a ban on the screening of Punjabi film ‘Sadda Haq’ till further orders. The movie was scheduled for an all-India release tomorrow. An official spokesman said this step had been taken to maintain communal harmony in the state.

In Amritsar, heavy security was deployed outside Adarsh cinema hall following a protest by Shiv Sena activists who allegedly tore posters of the film and raised slogans.

Members of the Sikh Students Federation also reached there in strength. They warned that none would be allowed to disrupt the screening of the movie. Assistant Commissioner of Police Gurnam Singh said that the police had been deployed outside the cinema hall to prevent any untoward incident.

Yes, that was Ajit Sandhu who many believe faked his suicide and is actually living in Canada.

Regarding why the Akal Takhat Jathedar didn't say anything about Swaran Ghotna, that is very clear: it is because he is scared of Badal. Badal's government has been protecting Ghotna since 1997, before that he promised the Panth that he would get justice for the shaheedi of Singh Sahib Bhai Gurdev Singh Ji Kaunke. But, being true to the treacherous, dirty blood that runs through his veins, he went back on his promise as soon as he got into power. In fact, one of Badal's ministers (Sarwan Singh Fillaur) actually went to Ghotna's cremation.

Swaran Ghotna killed and tortured thousands of young Sikhs during his campaign of terror. It is a shame that while he was alive Sikhs couldn't have got him into the dock. But, that is what happens when you trust a traitor like Badal. All we can say now is: may his soul rot in hell.

It is good that the anti Akal Takhat, Congress boot-licker Sarna lost. But, let's not be fooled into thinking that Badal is pro Akal Takhat. He only talks about Sikh issues when he needs a stick to beat Congress with. Badal has destroyed the concept and principle of Akal Takhat......he only talks about it now because he is in control of it. Remember that BJP has been in power twice since 1984.....did they punish the guilty Congress devils ??? No. BJP will probably win the next general election and time will tell whether Badal will raise the 1984 issue or will do what he always does and talk about it at election time ONLY.

He was sharpening the main weapon that can be used in western countries - the hands. Sometimes we say "more Singhs should be doing martial arts / combat sports", but this is wrong. More Singhs should not be doing it, ALL Singhs should be doing it. We should all be doing realistic martial arts such as Boxing/wrestling/MMA/Muay Thai.........we don't really have a choice if we have the name Singh. This would be of more benefit to us rather than clinging onto our kirpans ritualistically and making up rules, but not having the skills to deal with a situation should it arise.

In the west where our girls are bombarded with western culture, materialism, feminism, it is very easy for them to go astray and turn into feminist she-mans who misuse and misunderstand the concept of equality in Sikhi. It is very important that from the start Girls(and boys) be indoctinated with Gurbani, Sikhi and have Gurmat Sanskaars.

Feel really sorry for you Baldeep. Sounds like your father needs to man-up and take hold of the situation. If we had our old culture intact these kind of things would never happen. This is the price we are paying for losing our values and adopting a gutter culture.

Jonny 101 has hit the nail on the head with his post, especially the above bit. This is why Western feminism is evil and is no part of Sikhi. It destroys families and communities.

Hope the appalling behaviour of your sister improves as she is clearly giving you a lot of stress. Rab Rakha.

So who made the u-turn? For once it seemed like everyone was on the same page.

I'm not sure, haven't seen a link which confirms that anyone has made a u-turn (I only responded to West London Singh's post). Searching on the internet now, I have only found the following links which seem to say that they are sticking to their guns:

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20130122/punjab.htm#7

Service fraternity condemns gurdwara action

The management had refused to conduct prayers on Lt Gen Dayal’s death anniversary

Tribune News Service

Chandigarh, January 21

The refusal of a local gurdwara to grant permission to the family of a decorated Lt General to conduct prayers on his death anniversary on the grounds that he was associated with Operation Bluestar has been termed as “unfortunate and inappropriate” by the retired service fraternity as well as political figures.

The management of the gurdwara in Sector 7 Panchkula, did not allow the family of Lt General Ranjit Singh Dayal to hold a prayer meeting on its premises yesterday. The meeting was held at the departed soldier’s residence and langar organised at the officers’ institute at Chandimandir.

Lt General Dayal was Chief of Staff, Western Command, when Operation Bluestar was launched. A decorated soldier who captured the strategic Haji Pir Pass in Jammu and Kashmir in 1965, for which he was awarded the Maha Vir Chakra, later served as GOC-in-C, Southern Command, and Governor of Puducherry.

Describing the incident as unfortunate, Lt General Raj Kadyan, former Deputy Chief of Army Staff, said: “General Dayal was a highly respected soldier. To view a single action through the lens of religion is reducing not only his stature, but also that of the Army, which is the most secular organisation in the country.”

Maj-Gen Satbir Singh of the Indian Ex-servicemen’s Movement said the action on the part of the gurdwara management was inappropriate as Lt General Dayal was only performing his duty to the nation.

Brig Harwant Singh said: “General Dayal was only doing his duty and it was totally wrong on the part of the gurdwara management to act in the way they did. The gurdwara action seems to be sectarian and anti-national.”

Daljit Cheema, SAD spokesperson, said he had not heard about the incident and General Dayal’s family alone could comment on the matter. Leader of the Opposition in the assembly, Sunil Jakhar, said General Dayal was a brave soldier and a gentleman who deserved respect of the nation, especially Punjabis.

This Dusht helped commit a genocide against his own people. We truly are slaves in India if we have to commemorate the disgraceful life of such scum in our Gurdwaras. What next ?.......an akhand paath in memory of Aurangzeb, Mir Manu, Indira Gandhi ?

Akal Takhat Sahib and SGPC need to speak up now !!!

Khalsa is a brotherhood.......If you can't follow the Khalsa rules, then take the identity off or one day another will take it off for you. The message for such people should be clear..........no tolerance for bad behaviour in the Khalsa identity.

Absolutely. If one of us behaves badly then it affects the reputation of ALL of us. That is what being part of a brotherhood means. We should always be cautious never to stain the pure, white chaddar of Guru Sahibaan.

We shouldn't even have to discuss whether a 'Singh' on a dating show is right or wrong..........it should go without saying.

Well done to Jay Singh-Sohal; he makes a lot of good points that needed to be said. Param, again contradicts himself by talking about 'representing himself' and then 'Sikhs need to be represented in the media'. Jay is well-spoken and cuts Param's arguments down so easily. Param comes off as confused, very immature, an attention seeker and really desperate to get famous. Thinks that people giving him high-fives and hugs is "giving him love"....he really doesn't understand that people are laughing at him and see him as a clown who entertained them on a Saturday evening.

Gurdial Singh and sons in Jallandhar. They are of the same quality as Raj Musicals but not as expensive. Search the forum, there was a poster who was going to India to get a dilruba from them through Dr Gurnam Singh.

He claims he is not representing Sikhs but then says it is good for Sikhs to get in the media.....a complete contradiction. Unfortunately the 7 million people who watched the program will think it is acceptable for Sikhs to date......which it is definitely not. Guru Sahib has taught us to look on other woman as our mothers, sisters and daughters. Sikhs used to have a reputation for high morals and character but now we have Amritdharis going on national TV destroying the good name that our forefathers built up. Sikhs need to get in the media, but with their respect, integrity and Sikh values intact......something that was clearly missing last Saturday.

Here's the discussion on Nihal's program (Are turbaned Sikh men discriminated against when it comes to dating and marriage ?):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01phm9y

The be-sharam himself calls in and tries to defend his actions (backed by the Anti-Sikh Jasminder).

Here is a better quality video of the complete embarrassment that happened last night (go to 16:47):

We need to put to bed these lies that attempt to defame Sikhs and justify the subsequent genocide against us. Below is a quote from 'Amritsar:Mrs Gandhi's Last Battle by Mark Tully and Satish Jacob (page 147)'. Now, we all know that this book is pro Indian government and anti-Sikh. It uses derogatory language against our martyrs and tries to make out like the whole thing was the fault of the Sikhs. But if there was, as is claimed, thousands of Hindus being killed, wouldn't the Indian government try to claim it ????? Even they admit that more Sikhs were killed than Hindus........so where is this phantom genocide that was being carried out against Hindus ???

"According to the government's figures, Bhindranwale's terrorists had already killed 165 Hindus and Nirankaris in the twenty-two months since the launching of the Akali Morcha. They had also killed 39 Sikhs because they had opposed Bhindranwale. The total number of deaths in violent incidents, including so-called 'encounters' between the police and Sikhs, riots, and the accident at the level crossing in which 34 supporters of the Morcha were killed, was 410. The injured numbered 1,180. "

Amritsar:Mrs Gandhi's Last Battle by Mark Tully and Satish Jacob (page 147)

The quote above clearly shows that even the Indian government claims that only 165 Hindus were killed in the two years of the morcha. Sikhs have always denied any involvement in these killings and we believe it was the Indian government carrying out these crimes and trying to discredit Sikhs. They was a well known incident where six Hindus were killed on a bus. Shaheed Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindranwale and all the Sikh leaders strongly condemned this, but the right-wing Hindu press never reported this. Even Sant Longowal said on video "We have said to the government many times that they should set-up a committee to investigate these killings and we will prove that the government is behind these."

The best way to prevent our kuria from doing the kind of things they do is to stop their secular upbringing. When we give an innocent child secular values instead of religious values what will we expect them to do when they get young? obviously they will put khay on the heads of their parents(and the community). I still don't understand why everyone here blames the other community for targeting our girls. No one is putting a gun to the heads of our girls when they act slutty and go out with men from other communities and eventually get abused. If you play with fire, you're gonna get burned.

Religious values need to be instilled into our kurian since childhood. Only then can we expect better results. Until then, expect more of our kurian doing the things they do. Look at Muslims, no matter how non religious they are, they will always give their girls religious values and keep them away from the secular values.

Let's not forget that our young girls are the future mothers of the Sikhs. if they are going to go clubbing, drinking, go out with boys, what kind of values(sanskaars) are they going to pass on to their children? this is how societies decay and degrade. If a mother has rotten values, it is very likely that is what her children will also be.

Absolutely hit the nail on the head, bro. If our community could understand this we wouldn't be having these problems and Sikh families would be strong, making a strong community and strong nation. Our girls have become lawyers, doctors, managers.......how many mothers do we have who know how to bring up kids properly ? The day our girls become proper mothers, we won't have to ask others for raaj, it will come and fall at our feet. The most important thing is character and once this is lost everything is lost.

In addition to avoiding secular values we need to stay away from feminism which our lot are trying to present as being part of Sikhi, which it is most definitely not. We are paying a heavy price for abandoning our old culture/values and adopting this modern day gutter culture where sharam, izzat, anakh have no value.

WaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa

WaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh

I hope someone can help me with a query I have.

I'm travelling to Punjab in a few weeks. I have set up a meeting with Dr Gurnam Singh (Patiala University) and I hope to buy a dilruba while I'm in Punjab with his advice. The issue is, will I encounter many problems when bringing it back to the UK?

I'm flying with Air India (I know, I know!) from London to Delhi and I have a 46kg baggage allowance. However, will I have any taxes to pay, or staff telling me it's too big to take in the hold or worse, is it likely to be manhandled and arrive broken?

Does anyone have any personal experience of bringing back a dilruba or similar large, fragile instrument out of India?

Also, any tips on where to buy from or the best wood? Any indication on what I would expect to pay? I've been advised to source a dilruba made from a single piece of wood rather than two separate parts. I'm afraid I have little to no knowledge on musical instruments. My young son has indicated a preference to learn a musical instrument when he learns kirtan and he has suggested he would like to learn a traditional instrument than the harmonium. I can't play any instrument and would like to take it up too - hence, the proposed meeting with Bhai Dr Gurnam Singh to speak with him and learn a little from his vast experience.

Hopefully, some of my brothers and sisters can help me with their own experiences!

(I'm really sorry if this topic doesn't fit in this section - mods, please feel free to move).

Meeting Dr Gurnam Singh is an excellent idea, he will be able to guide you as they purchase a lot of instruments. I believe that he buys his instruments from Gurdial Singh and sons (Jallandhar,Punjab). These are definitely top quality dilrubas, one of the best. You could get Dr Gurnam Singh to order the dilruba for you, or maybe phone them and give a 'sifarash'. This is so that they take care with making the instrument, make it better quality and will be less likely to mess you around. Otherwise, some instrument makers don't take as much care. Here is a very good article:

http://harsangeet.com/2008/05/wanttobuyesraj/

Whoever you buy it from make sure you tell them that you are taking it abroad and it should be packed accordingly. Also, be aware of time constraints as they will tell you it will be ready by the time you go back to UK, but on the day they will make an excuse. Tell them it should be ready as early as possible.

If you are getting the dilruba for your son, you might also want to consider getting a mini dilruba rather than the full size one. You would have to get this specially made.

Here is a shabad in Raag Kalyan by Bhai Harjinder Singh Ji. This was done at the 1991 Gurmat Sangeet Sammellan.

http://www.jawadditaksal.org/31Raags/057_Kalyaan_Gun%20Naad%20Dhun%20Anand%20Beid_Bh%20Harjinder%20Singh%20Ji%20Srinagar%20Wale.mp3

My family and I have tickets for this Saturday at Wembley. Is there any update if Kirpans are allowed in the stadium

Make sure that you print the letter and 'list of the prohibited items' on this thread and take them with you. If you get hassle then ask to speak to their superiors and also make sure that you take names. By refusing you entry on the basis of the kirpan they are breaking the promise they have made with the Sikh community and should be taken to court.

Singhs going to Coventry for football are still being denied entry when wearing kirpans. Wimbledon and Excel arena are OK (haven't heard anything about the others).

The above letter was from ideal in terms of wording and size of the Kirpan so the following is relevant:

Dear Dabinderjit,

I hope you are well, thank you for your email.

The LOCOG position on the wearing of the Kirpan has not changed. We have an exception to the prohibited items policy to allow the wearing of a Kirpan of the size limit stated below. This applies in all Games venues and entry staff will be briefed.

Exception wording for the Prohibited Items policy:

The Kirpan, which is an Article of Faith (ceremonial dagger) in the Sikh religion, will be allowed where the length of the sheath (not including the hilt) is no longer than 6 inches* and is present with the other Articles of Faith**. The Kirpan must also be worn beneath the clothing for it to be allowed into the venue.

( * the blade itself cannot be measured as to unsheathe it is considered sacrilegious)

( ** the most visually identifiable Articles of Faith are an uncut beard and turban for male Sikhs and a solid metal bangle on the wrist (normally the right) for both male and female Sikhs)

A recent press statement by LOCOG reads;

“We want to make sure the Games are accessible to everyone. The Kirpan will be presented at security, but it will not be unsheathed. Wearing the Kirpan alongside the other articles of faith is both an everyday occurrence for Sikhs and an important part of observing their faith."

I hope you find this reassuring, I do know that Sikhs entered the test events wearing the Kirpan with no problems, so I am confident the measures we have put in place with the communities help will work.

Thank you for your support for the Games.

Kind regards

There have however been problems with some football venues: Old Trafford (has been reported not to follow the LOCOG rules) and there was an incident yesterday at the Ricoh Arena, Coventry where a Sikh family was refused entry. So be warned that some football venues outside London may be an issue.

Do you have the original letter as a PDF ?

Original letter obtained by the Sikh Federation (UK) from Seb Coe in March 2011 is attached:

Thanks. Any Amritdharis going to the Olympics should print this out in case they get funny at the check points.

Here is a list of the prohibited items at London 2012:

http://www.london2012.com/mm/Document/Documents/General/01/25/44/06/Prohibitedandrestricteditemslists_Neutral.pdf

"All types of knives and bladed items, including pocket knives and knives carried as part of cultural dress (excluding the Sikh article of

faith kirpan/ceremonial dagger)"

What I would say is that "such and such a prog is scheduled to be aired..."

Lol, a pain in the neck, i like that.

the reason that i have made my point is for the same reason, that some people say " Khalistan will never work,,,it will be taken over by pakistan...we will kill oursleves fighting for power..." etc

I ask them the same, HOW DO YOU KNOW? They dont, it is just their own opinion, just as it is mine, that Khalistan can survive as a state.

Same with Pehlvan saying everything will be the same in 5 years time. He doesnt know it will be, and i dont know that it will.

Bottom line is , all i am saying is give Sant Samaj a chance to do something.

You sound like a kid who has just discovered the nuances of the English language and is just experimenting. Any mature person would understand that what I said was a prediction/opinion based on what has happened in the past and what is happening now (as I said before and has been explained to you by singher23, but you keep repeating the same things). Is it a fact ?.....of course not, because it has NOT happened and is therefore not verifiable !!! Why are you arguing about something so obvious ?

But, I think you probably know this as you use language the same way (ie. "having SS there on the byline is going to be a positive step for the welfare of the Panth"........."I am sure that we will see results in favour of the Panth").

Maybe the real reason for your posts is you are frustrated that every day we see the news from Punjab which shows the direction things are going......Punjab government killing our youth and not punishing the guilty, sticking up for SS Saini in the High Court, saying that there will be no pictures in the 1984 memorial. And, inspite of this you are trying to convince us that everything is OK and that Sikhs should stick with Badal. Incredible !!!

Time is something that we do NOT have......it has been 28 years. The waters of Punjab are getting dirtier, the demographics are changing fast. Sikhi is finishing in Punjab.